Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:00 AM - Re: Bungee Time!! (Lynn Matteson)
2. 03:51 AM - Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? (Fox5flyer)
3. 06:37 AM - Another STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? (ANDY N FULTZ)
4. 09:10 PM - Re: Cooling Stratus EA-81 (Andy Fultz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bungee Time!! |
Those shock cord codes are spelled out in AC 43-13....I don't have my
copy handy, or I'd let you in on the "secret."
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Temporarily w/Sensenich 55.5 x 46 prop while
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip) is in for upgrade
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1121 hrs (since
3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Jun 21, 2011, at 10:46 PM, bjones@dmv.com wrote:
>
> Changed mine about 3 years ago on a 1050. They are still doing
> thier job.
> if you want me to look for stripe colors to see if they match yours
> let me
> know.
>
> bj
> KF IV 1050 Rotax 912 warp Drive/nickle edge
>
> Dave, I replaced mine with Lowell Fitt's bush gear. Try that. It's
> alot
>> more
>> work and alot more $ but alot more friendly when I'm doing ground
>> loops.
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Dave G
>> <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> I need to replace the saggy old bungees on my Mod IV 1050. I have
>>> looked
>>> through the archives and determined this is a job for two. If
>>> anyone has
>>> any
>>> ideas that make it quick and easy now would be the time to share.
>>>
>>> The bungees I am installing are beige with two red and one yellow
>>> stripe.
>>> Been in the package a couple of years. Anyone care to tell me
>>> what this
>>> code
>>> means cause the ones I am removing are way different for stripes.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Dave G. mod IV 1050 582 Warp.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford,IL
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? |
Agree with Lowell completely. Good advice. I used the same ratio for my scoop/fairing
and it has worked fine for my purposes. Another thing, if I can add
to Lowell's post, ensure that no air (zero) can escape around the radiator. What
I mean is that if you enclose it (best, IMO), do not leave any gaps anywhere
for air to bypass it, because that is exactly what the air will do. It is
like water and will take the easiest path. It is extremely important to have
high pressure at the inlet and low pressure at the outlet, otherwise the air will
just bypass the whole thing and very little cooling will result. The best
way to achieve this is a simple "lip" on the outlet side which will create a
suction. This combined with the high pressure in front will drag lots of air
through the rad. Better yet is to make that lip controllable.
I'm attaching some photos to illustrate what I'm talking about.
Good luck,
Deke
S5/Soob
[quote="lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net"]Andy,
First my disclaimer - I know nothing specifically about the Subaru installation
- but I would like to offer some ideas from other applications. I have helped
build two airplanes and am in my second Kitfox IV build. I understand
that the later model Kitfoxes with internal radiators have suffered at times
from inadequate cooling. I am currently helping with a Series V with a 7 FWF
set-up. It has an internal radiator and I have been told that the reason for
the larger - by at least a factor of 2 - radiator was to help with cooling,
as with earlier models that was an issue. As I looked over the installation,
it became pretty obvious that the cowl inlet area providing cooling air to
the radiator is considerable larger than the outlet area. Switch to the Lancair
IV I helped with. Given that it is an air cooled engine, and arguably quite
different, what follows might not totally apply, but when builders of this
airplane found cooling problems, the solution was to decrease - yes decrease
- the inlet area. This provided a lower pressure within the cowl and more
smooth, slower flowing air over the fins which picked up more heat.
With the 7 FWF on the V build, the total outlet area under the cowl is about
110 in. Sq. The inlet to the radiator is a NACA duct that expands to the area
of the radiator which is about 103 in. sq. Add to that 15 and 17 in. sq. for
the oil cooler and the openings on each side of the spinner and the inlet
area to the entire cowl is 135 in. sq. The general rule of thumb for air cooled
is a 1.5 to 1 ratio outlet to inlet. The Kitfox has it not quite exactly
reversed. I think what is happening in the Kitfox is the inadequate outlet
is simply acting like a dam and the cooling air is simply bypassing the cowl
openings seeing essentially a partially blocked hole. The Speedster radiator
shroud I had on my first Model IV had the inlet to outlet ratio pretty much
like what the Lancair folks found to work best.
All this is opinion, but it may give some suggestions on where to look regarding
possible solutions.
Lowell
From: fox5flyer (fox5flyer@idealwifi.net)
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:16 AM
To: Kitfox List (kitfox-list@matronics.com)
Subject: Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling?
Hi, Andy. Obviously, unless you use a thermostat, the engine temps are directly
affected by outside ambient temps. Higher oat means higher engine temps.
With mine, at about 70 oat, I warm up to 150f for takeoff and generally by
2k agl engine temps increase to about 195 where they stay when I level off for
cruise. I have my radiator enclosed with adjustable rear cowl flap so that
I have some control over engine temps. On hot days I keep an eye on the climb
temps as they can creep up to 215 or even higher. When that happens I just
level off for a little while, then climb some more. I rarely get more than
4k agl anyway, so it isn't a problem here in Michigan. The temps you indicate
do not seem extremely high to me. Adding throttle increases power and
power produces heat so it's normal for the temps to rise somewhat. Of course,
no two experimental aircraft setups are the same so, if it is a big concern,
you might take a look at yours to see what you can do to scavenge more heat
out of the cowling/radiator.
Deke
S5/NSI Subaru/CAP
470TT
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> [b]
--------
Deke Morisse
Kitfox S5 TD
NSI/CAP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343739#343739
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoopdoor1_738.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoop_finished6_104.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoop_front1_303.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Another STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling? |
=0A=0AThis is certainly a question I should have asked from the beginning a
nd didn't.- =0AWhat size is your radiator?- I see a couple of you are u
sing the VW Rabbit =0Aradiator.- Lowell yours looks similar to the one I'
m using.- Mine is 26.5 wide =0Aand 5 tall.- The fin area is 23"x5" givi
ng me a total of 115 square inches of =0Asurface area.=0A=0APer several sug
gestions, I have changed out the coolant to an 80/20 ratio and =0Aadded "wa
ter wetter" as well.- Due to weather I haven't flown this combination =0A
yuet to see what difference this makes.=0A=0AThanks guys for all the help.
- Gonna go double check my guages in a few minutes.=0A=0AAndy=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0AFrom: Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, June 22, 2011 5:49:15 AM=0ASu
bject: Kitfox-List: Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81 Cooling?=0A=0A--> Kitfox-List me
ssage posted by: "Fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>=0A=0AAgree with Lowe
ll completely.- Good advice.- I used the same ratio for my =0Ascoop/fai
ring and it has worked fine for my purposes.- Another thing, if I can =0A
add to Lowell's post, ensure that no air (zero) can escape around the radia
tor.- =0AWhat I mean is that if you enclose it (best, IMO), do not leave
any gaps =0Aanywhere for air to bypass it, because that is exactly what the
air will do.- It =0Ais like water and will take the easiest path.- It
is extremely important to have =0Ahigh pressure at the inlet and low pressu
re at the outlet, otherwise the air =0Awill just bypass the whole thing and
very little cooling will result.- The best =0Away to achieve this is a s
imple "lip" on the outlet side which will create a =0Asuction.- This comb
ined with the high pressure in front will drag lots of air =0Athrough the r
ad.- Better yet is to make that lip controllable.=0AI'm attaching some ph
otos to illustrate what I'm talking about.=0AGood luck,=0ADeke=0AS5/Soob=0A
=0A=0A[quote="lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net"]Andy,=0A- =0AFirst my disclaimer
- I know nothing specifically about- the Subaru installation =0A- but I
would like to offer some ideas from other- applications.- I have helped
- =0Abuild two airplanes and am in my second- Kitfox IV build.- I und
erstand that the =0Alater model Kitfoxes with internal- radiators have su
ffered at times from =0Ainadequate cooling.- I am currently- helping wi
th a Series V with a 7 FWF =0Aset-up.- It has an internal radiator- and
I have been told that the reason for =0Athe larger - by at least a factor
of 2- - radiator was to help with cooling, as =0Awith earlier models that
was an- issue.- As I looked over the installation, it =0Abecame pretty
obvious that- the cowl inlet area providing cooling air to the =0Aradiat
or is considerable larger- than the outlet area.- Switch to the Lancair
IV =0AI helped with.- Given- that it is an air cooled engine, and argu
ably quite =0Adifferent, what follows- might not totally apply, but when
builders of this =0Aairplane found cooling- problems, the solution was!
=0A- to decrease - yes decrease - the inlet area.- This provided a lowe
r pressure =0Awithin the cowl and more smooth, slower flowing- air over t
he fins which picked =0Aup more heat.=0A- =0AWith the 7 FWF on the V buil
d, the total outlet area- under the cowl is about =0A110 in. Sq.- The i
nlet to the radiator is a NACA- duct that expands to the area =0Aof the r
adiator which is about 103 in. sq.- Add to that 15 and 17 in. sq. for =0A
the oil cooler and the openings on each side- of the spinner and the inle
t area =0Ato the entire cowl is 135 in.- sq.- - The general rule of t
humb for air cooled =0Ais a 1.5 to 1- ratio outlet to inlet.- The Kitfo
x has it not quite exactly =0Areversed.- I think what is happening in the
Kitfox is the inadequate outlet is =0Asimply- acting like a dam and the
cooling air is simply bypassing the cowl =0Aopenings- seeing essentially
a partially blocked hole.- The- Speedster radiator =0Ashroud I had on m
y first Model IV had the inlet to outlet- ratio pretty much =0Alike what
the Lancair folks found to work best.=0A- =0AAll this is opinion, but it
may give some suggestions on- where to look =0Aregarding possible solutio
ns.=0A- =0ALowell=0A- =0A=0A- From: fox5flyer (fox5flyer@idealwifi.ne
t) =0ASent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:16 AM=0ATo: Kitfox List (kitfox-list@m
atronics.com) =0ASubject: Re: STRATUS/Soob EA-81- Cooling?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
- Hi, Andy.- Obviously, unless you use a- thermostat, the engine temp
s are =0Adirectly affected by outside ambient- temps.- Higher oat means
higher engine =0Atemps.- With mine, at about 70- oat, I warm up to 150
f for takeoff and generally =0Aby 2k agl engine temps increase- to about
195 where they stay when I level off =0Afor cruise.- I have my- radiato
r enclosed with adjustable rear cowl flap so that =0AI have some control-
over engine temps.- On hot days I keep an eye on the climb =0Atemps as t
hey- can creep up to 215 or even higher.- When that happens I just =0Al
evel off for- a little while, then climb some more.- I rarely get more
than 4k =0Aagl- anyway, so it isn't a problem here in Michigan.- The te
mps you indicate do- =0Anot seem extremely high to me.- Adding throttle
increases power and- power =0Aproduces heat so it's normal for the temps
to rise somewhat.- Of- course, no two =0Aexperimental aircraft setups
are the same so, if it is a big- concern, you might =0Atake a look at you
rs to see what you can!=0A- do to scavenge more- heat out of the cowlin
g/radiator.- =0ADeke=0AS5/NSI Subaru/CAP=0A470TT=0A=0A=0A> =0A> =0A>href
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>m=0A> href
="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A> [
b]=0A=0A=0A--------=0ADeke Morisse=0AKitfox S5 TD=0ANSI/CAP=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AR
ead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?
p=343739#343739=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.
com//files/scoopdoor1_738.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/scoop_fi
nished6_104.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/scoop_front1_303.jpg
=================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling Stratus EA-81 |
I appreciate the responses I've received to help with my perceived delima
on temps. Maybe I'm just being a little paranoid, but I sure don't want to
cause harm to my new engine. Anyway, I'm starting with the easiest stuff
first. Last night I changed the coolant out with a 80/20 mix and added
WATER WETTER. It was 50/50. Flew this afternoon for nearly two hours.
Took off and climbed to 2000 and leveled off. Temps good so I climbed on up
to 3500. Never saw over 210 on the water temp and the oil is staying less
than 200. However the OAT was about 82 on the ground when I took off as
opposed to the mid to upper 90's I've been flying in. I'll have to wait
(not long I'm sure) for another warm day to see what the 80/20 water wetter
combination does. Then it will be on to airflow over the radiator which I
now think is going to be my major problem. Thanks to you all for the help
and suggestions. I'll report my findings as I continue. Nine hours in a
week and been grounded two afternoons due to weather. Man what a blast this
experience is...
Andy F.
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