Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:55 AM - fly-inn Green NY Sept 9-10 (Tex Mantell)
2. 04:10 AM - Re: Thunder Aviation Engines (rawheels)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Re: Jammed engine (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 06:11 AM - Re: fly-inn Green NY Sept 9-10 (Dorsal)
5. 10:15 AM - Re: Thunder Aviation Engines (Mnflyer)
6. 10:15 AM - sticking valves (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
7. 02:40 PM - Re: sticking valves (Lowell Fitt)
8. 02:58 PM - Finally "getting it" (Dave)
9. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Jammed engine (b d)
10. 04:30 PM - !Re: Finally "getting it" (Vic Baker)
11. 05:36 PM - Re: Finally "getting it" (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | fly-inn Green NY Sept 9-10 |
Is there any update on this?.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Thunder Aviation Engines |
The owner says he has sold two that have been put on Kitfox aircraft. One model
had to add a bump in the cowl due to how tall the engine is, but the other model
didn't.
Seems like a good idea; uses the same mounts as the 582, fuel injection, 4-stroke,
easy parts availability (Ford), etc.
I guess the engine has been in the works for a long time under the Motavia name.
They had a lot of business related issues, and made a lot of customers mad.
This guy purchased the rights to the engine earlier this year and has already
sold quite a few engines.
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351642#351642
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jammed engine |
Bruce,
Lowell is right on the mark with his explanation of the hydraulic lock
that can occur with the 912. It is taught in Lockwoods 912 service class when
reviewing the oil system. This is one of the two reasons you "burp" the
engine .(ie: check for hydraulic lock) The other is to check the oil level. It
is the nature of the engine depending on the oil tank location and I dare
say would occur with a Continental engine,as an example, if you could put
the oil tank in a high position.
Radial engines were /are prone to this same condition.
I have never had a hydraulic lock in my 912 BUT as I have a high oil tank
I always expect it. I have let the engine sit for a month and there will be
no oil on the dip stick but again,no hydraulic lock. I am going to try the
new oil filter to see if it will stop the siphoning as it is suppose to.
However it is a little longer and I have very little clearance on my exhaust
pipe when removing/installing so I hope it will fit !
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
Milton,Fl
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: fly-inn Green NY Sept 9-10 |
Yes, this is happening and it looks like the weather might cooperate. The basic
plan is to arrive Saturday for a lunch cookout (burgers and dogs), general socializing
on all things Kitfox, an afternoon flight to Skyhaven, evening campfire
and a breakfast flight in the morning.
Please post any questions here or TKF or send me a PM.
As an aside I will be brining a Dynavibe and a Carbmate for anyone who wants to
use them.
--------
Dorsal
Series 7 Flying
912S Warp Drive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351650#351650
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Thunder Aviation Engines |
I thought it looked like the Motavia engine and yep they were trying to get the
engine going about 15 yrs ago and they had lots of customers PO'd. I guess a
plus it the engine mount would sure make it simple to install as far as the mount
only time will tell if its a viable product.
GB in MN
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351669#351669
Message 6
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Reading all of the comments regarding stuck engine prompted me to report on
the sticking valves.=C2- Could not find anything in the mainenance manua
l for the 912, but have not attended the class either.=C2- It is on my bu
cket list.
Relying on the suggestions from Lowell and others a systematic approach bas
ed on others past experience Marvel Miracle Oil was added to the oil follow
ing an oil change.=C2- The condition of a single valve sticking on startu
p additional valves began sticking.=C2- The problem became progressively
worse until the point of the propeller spinning like a turbine.=C2- Obvio
usly the problem was acute rather than chronic.
The initial assumption by many was that it was the exhaust valves sticking
due to carbon or some other build up.
After removing the rocker arm covers and pulling the propeller through it w
as determined that it was the intake valves that were not returning to seat
.=C2- Because of the sudden appearance of the problem and its quick escal
ation it is likely that bad fuel was introduced at the last gas up (Phillip
66, medium grade, no ethanol).
My go to A&P, test pilot, and guru of all things aviation related suggested
a slug of Techron in the gas up to double the recommended mix.=C2- But t
o solve the immediate problem of no compression the valve stems were slathe
red with carburetor cleaner and then the valves were "staked" (repeated imp
acts allowing the valves to reseat). Compression, weak, was obtained in two
or three of the cylinders then the engine started.=C2- The balky cylinde
rs soon came on line and the engine was run for 30 minutes at medium rpm.
=C2- The engine was then allowed to cool and 10 gallons of Supreme Chevro
n with techron was added to the tanks.=C2- The engine fired right up and
the plane was flown for an additional 1/2 hour.
After sitting for 2 days the engine had good compression and started immedi
ately, running on all 4.=C2- A 30 minute flight showed excellent performa
nce and indicates that the problem is solved.
There are bound to be second guesser out there who would have suggested a d
ifferent approach but each step was thoughtfully approached with knowledgea
ble advise based on the currently available information with each step lead
ing closer to the solution.
John Kerr
Classic IV, 912ul, 800+ hours
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: sticking valves |
John,
I guess I have to be a bit more careful when I post. The ATF we used
instead of the unavailable Marvel Mystery oil was put into the fuel
tanks - a quart each wing. The guess at least, was correct as our
treatment focused on the intake valves. Your thorough diagnostics is
very helpful.
Thanks,
Lowell
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: sticking valves
Reading all of the comments regarding stuck engine prompted me to report
on the sticking valves. Could not find anything in the mainenance
manual for the 912, but have not attended the class either. It is on my
bucket list.
Relying on the suggestions from Lowell and others a systematic approach
based on others past experience Marvel Miracle Oil was added to the oil
following an oil change. The condition of a single valve sticking on
startup additional valves began sticking. The problem became
progressively worse until the point of the propeller spinning like a
turbine. Obviously the problem was acute rather than chronic.
The initial assumption by many was that it was the exhaust valves
sticking due to carbon or some other build up.
After removing the rocker arm covers and pulling the propeller through
it was determined that it was the intake valves that were not returning
to seat. Because of the sudden appearance of the problem and its quick
escalation it is likely that bad fuel was introduced at the last gas up
(Phillip 66, medium grade, no ethanol).
My go to A&P, test pilot, and guru of all things aviation related
suggested a slug of Techron in the gas up to double the recommended mix.
But to solve the immediate problem of no compression the valve stems
were slathered with carburetor cleaner and then the valves were "staked"
(repeated impacts allowing the valves to reseat). Compression, weak, was
obtained in two or three of the cylinders then the engine started. The
balky cylinders soon came on line and the engine was run for 30 minutes
at medium rpm. The engine was then allowed to cool and 10 gallons of
Supreme Chevron with techron was added to the tanks. The engine fired
right up and the plane was flown for an additional 1/2 hour.
After sitting for 2 days the engine had good compression and started
immediately, running on all 4. A 30 minute flight showed excellent
performance and indicates that the problem is solved.
There are bound to be second guesser out there who would have suggested
a different approach but each step was thoughtfully approached with
knowledgeable advise based on the currently available information with
each step leading closer to the solution.
John Kerr
Classic IV, 912ul, 800+ hours
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 8
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| Subject: | Finally "getting it" |
Well ok, despite no issues, the jury is still out on the 582 as far as I'm
concerned! To be comfortable I would need to take the EGT out and takes me
chances. As long as that gauge is there I will worry about it, especially in
an unloaded level cruise when it starts to rise a little.
On the other hand I think I am "over the hump" on tailwheel handling. While
many have no problem it was hard for me to master the art of the tailwheel.
It bit once and may again but it is obeying most commands at this point. The
secret for me was ditching my size 11 leather shoes and flying in sock feet!
It was recommended earlier and I thought whoever suggested it was nuts! My
feet fit the small pedals so much easier and I am less likely to push both
at the same time. I also have to reach for the brakes, I may have been on
them by accident earlier.
Nice to pass on some good news. I thought I would never "get it" on the
tailwheel!
Dave G. Nova Scotia, KF IV 1050 582 Warp TT
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jammed engine |
Thank you young man,
I have no clue what conversation you are referring to because there is no
reference. I may agree with Mr. Lowell too if I only knew what this is
about.
With that said, I do appreciate your perception and loyalty. Your vote is so
noted for whatever that is worth.
;*-)*
Bruce
Seasoned A&P ex-military, pilot, flight engineer, GA and Commercial Airlines
(not limited to light sport). . . . and old, grouchy and not PC. "Been there
and done it and don't have to vote on it!"
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> What Lowell said. He is spot on.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
> Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
> Cell 520-349-7056
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351631#351631
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Finally "getting it" |
Same problem here with my #13's. Got a pair of moccasin's, these work
great! How-some-ever I always throw my shoes in the back just in case a
hike back to the airport from a distant field is needed.....
Vic Baker
S7 912S Warp
Carson City, Nv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave " <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Finally "getting it"
>
>
> Well ok, despite no issues, the jury is still out on the 582 as far as I'm
> concerned! To be comfortable I would need to take the EGT out and takes me
> chances. As long as that gauge is there I will worry about it, especially
> in
> an unloaded level cruise when it starts to rise a little.
>
> On the other hand I think I am "over the hump" on tailwheel handling.
> While
> many have no problem it was hard for me to master the art of the
> tailwheel.
> It bit once and may again but it is obeying most commands at this point.
> The
> secret for me was ditching my size 11 leather shoes and flying in sock
> feet!
> It was recommended earlier and I thought whoever suggested it was nuts! My
> feet fit the small pedals so much easier and I am less likely to push both
> at the same time. I also have to reach for the brakes, I may have been on
> them by accident earlier.
>
> Nice to pass on some good news. I thought I would never "get it" on the
> tailwheel!
>
> Dave G. Nova Scotia, KF IV 1050 582 Warp TT
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Finally "getting it" |
On 9/7/2011 2:55 PM, Dave wrote:
> Well ok, despite no issues, the jury is still out on the 582 as far as I'm
> concerned! To be comfortable I would need to take the EGT out and takes me
> chances. As long as that gauge is there I will worry about it, especially in
> an unloaded level cruise when it starts to rise a little.
>
OK. Here's my (big bucks) solution to the EGT issue. Go buy and install
a GRT EIS 2002 at $503. Better yet, find a used one from some idiot
that's upgrading their motor (me) or avionics. Then install the Green
Sky Avionics HACman mixture control system. ($187) I ran these for 514
hours and about five years and loved my 582. I had a big (3/4") red
light right in front of my eyes that would light every time the EIS
would go over limit and I'd check the numbers, figure what was wrong,
and fix it. It made EGT management simple. Red light goes on: EGT high:
either shove throttle in or pull it out, depending on what you're doing
next. Simple. I know it sounds like a lot of money, but it was seriously
worth the piece-of-mind. (It also makes your engine last a lot longer by
warning you of those other pesky problems like excessive RPM, CHT, and
water temp, all of which I saw from time to time.) The HACman simply
gives you the ability to do something about the EGT. EGT too high?
Richen mixture. I routinely leaned at altitude and then automatically
richened before pulling the throttle back for descent. Once full rich I
had wide latitude with the throttle without having to worry about EGT.
(The HACman was worth about 80F on the EGT.)
> On the other hand I think I am "over the hump" on tailwheel handling. While
> many have no problem it was hard for me to master the art of the tailwheel.
> It bit once and may again but it is obeying most commands at this point. The
> secret for me was ditching my size 11 leather shoes and flying in sock feet!
> It was recommended earlier and I thought whoever suggested it was nuts! My
> feet fit the small pedals so much easier and I am less likely to push both
> at the same time. I also have to reach for the brakes, I may have been on
> them by accident earlier.
>
Glad to hear it. Now you'll only get better. Remember, "happy feet".
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 592-C / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
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