Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:49 AM - Re: 912s will not stay running (Shane Sather)
2. 07:47 AM - Re: 912s will not stay running (b d)
3. 08:20 AM - Re: 912s will not stay running (Lowell Fitt)
4. 08:33 AM - Re: 912s will not stay running (b d)
5. 08:42 AM - Re: 912s will not stay running (paul wilson)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: 912s will not stay running (b d)
7. 07:25 PM - Re: 912s will not stay running (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
8. 07:52 PM - Re: 912s will not stay running (rtmarshall)
9. 08:14 PM - Re: 912s will not stay running (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Thanks Bruce, this is the approach I am taking too (checking the fuel
supply first).
Just so everyone knows the conditions I live in.
I live in the High Arctic, we don=99t have hot summers and the
flying season is pretty much done now. I only operate on floats and the
season is short. Our fuel has no alcohol in it and likely never will due
to our weather conditions. There is no handy service center to go to for
assistance and we are pretty much on our own for repairs. Any major
repairs would require me removing engine and shipping it south to a
service center. Less major items such as installing improvements (I
removed and reinstalled the old clutch when I had it updated, by a
service center, with the slipper clutch. The 912s has been a very
reliable engine and to date has only had one other issue (electrical)
and that was sorted out through advice from this forum as it was a
similar experience. Hence the new request for advice. As with any advice
it has to be weighted for it usefulness and that can be based on
experience and =9Cprofession=9D advice when available.
Back to my issue I am just trying to sort it out before the snow flies
rather than put the plane away in its current condition. The fuel issue
is just a little odd to me though as it was working fine after the last
flight and then after two weeks docked there is a problem.
Thanks again for the advice and I will let all know how it turns out if
I get the opportunity to resolve before freeze up.
Shane
From: b d
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running
What I outlined by removing the fuel line and check the fuel flow to the
carb will segregate/isolate the problem between the fuel system and the
carburetor that is if you don't have two problems. Rather than a visual
inspection as mentioned to find a crimped line, if you do this simple
procedure it will tell you where your problem is and where it's not. If
you have good fuel flow down to your carburetor, your problem is in the
carburetor. If not it's up between there and the tank which requires
more diagnoses. I disagree with the PE. An inexperienced person,
including a PE should not be experimenting on an aircraft carburetor to
save a dime. I also disagree with the PE that the fuel needs to go bad
to have a clogging problem. That is simply not true. Fuel won't go bad
in a few weeks but it will evaporate in a carb float bowl and leave
residue in the jets. All lawn mower mechanics on up know this. The fuel
in the tank can be perfectly good while the fuel in the carb float bowl
many times will evaporate (especially if left in the heat) and leave the
jets plugged up. So, with that said, the smell of fuel only indicates
really old fuel but is no indication or help with the problem you are
describing. You most likely have clogged jets found in the summer heat
in every gas engine today. The question is, do you have the expertise to
DIY your own carb? Again, not to hurt your feelings but I would say no
or you would have known how to isolate this simple problem, and so
should the PE have known how to segregate and isolate the problem. It's
very logical and systematic. No superstition or black magic, no voodoo
or PE required. . . does the fuel make it to the carb or not . . .???
It's as simple as "can water run downhill?" Not brain surgery . . . :-)
Bruce
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E.
<paul@eucleides.com> wrote:
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Tue, September 20, 2011 7:50 pm, Shane Sather wrote:
> If you are referring to the gas cap vents I did check them and they
are clear.
>
> Thanks Shane
My 2 cents' worth -- I'd suspect floats sticking or needle stuck. It's
not really too
difficult to carefully remove the float bowl to see if the float drops
down as it
should and that the needle is away from the seat. If either is
sticking, cleaning the
pivot pin or the needle and seat with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol
should do the trick.
It the needle has some polymer tip as some do, I can't say if it is OK
or not to get
rubbing alcohol on it but if it is brass, no problem. After that, when
the engine runs
the normal fuel flow should keep it clean. I'm assuming that the
gasoline isn't
failing due to age and heat exposure. When I've seen that condition
(old fuel) it
smells odd and makes the engine almost impossible to start and you get
detonation when
it does start. This doesn't happen over a few day though. But it can
happen in a few
weeks.
So, check that you have fuel flowing to the float bowls and that the
floats aren't
sticking and the needle isn't stuck to the seat.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Shane,
I see your dilemma more clearly now. I don't have a schematic of your exac
t
fuel system or I could better help you. It is just a matter of
systematically isolating where the stoppage or restriction is.
First off . . . check to see if your problem is still there or has it gone
away without any help . . . so first off, I would start the engine to
confirm that your problem is still there. When running the engine,
presuming it runs a short time, try advancing the throttle as you start it
again to see if it runs at a higher rpm but not at a low rpm (idle range).
Also do you have a mixture control with idle cutoff? I don't know about the
912 so let me know. Check to make sure that your idle cutoff is not in the
off position and your mixture is full rich. (make sure your cable is not
broken or slipping too)
Do you have a fuel pump, a strainer, a shut off valve and/or selector valve
in the loop?
If you had or could point to a drawing of your fuel system from the interne
t
I could make a systematic check list for you. Also a good thing if you have
one and I don't know but is there a plug in the bottom of your float bowl
you can remove to let the fuel drain out there? Many carbs have them
especially on aircraft. But first off after confirming you still have the
same problem, I would just take the line off at the carb and make sure you
have plenty of fuel at that point so you know which direction to
troubleshoot. If you seem to have plenty of fuel to the carb then
investigate the carb further and if it has a plug in the bottom, pull it ou
t
and see if your fuel continues to run out the carb. It won't be as fast as
the fuel line because it will be going through the needle and seat and
possible a small filter at the very place where your line connects. If you
feel there is adequate fuel running out the drain plug, then it could be th
e
jets are plugged . . . If not, it could be the inline filter or it could b
e
the needle and seat are stuck. Sometimes a soft wrap with a plastic handle
will jar it lose but remember that is not the fix to the problem. It still
should be taken apart and cleaned along wit the inline filter if it has
one.
See if you can find a schematic or describe one for me so I can better see
your system if these things don't work. I have a dumb question, since you
mentioned your in the arctic, is there any chance you could have had water
in your fuel that froze? I live in Las Vegas and it's still hot here so I
didn't think of you being in the arctic.
BTW, if you are on floats, I presume you're plane is on the water so be
cautious when removing your carb. If you see you have to, I would take it
completely off and disassemble it and reassemble it somewhere else so you
don't lose anything. I guess you're used to doing that anyway. Do you have
some sort of shelter there you keep it in? I would love to see some pics
from up there if you could. Sounds like a nice place to live . . .and what
do you do up there for a living?
Bruce
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Shane Sather <shanesather@netkaster.ca>wro
te:
> Thanks Bruce, this is the approach I am taking too (checking the fuel
> supply first).
>
> Just so everyone knows the conditions I live in.
>
> I live in the High Arctic, we don=92t have hot summers and the flying sea
son
> is pretty much done now. I only operate on floats and the season is short
.
> Our fuel has no alcohol in it and likely never will due to our weather
> conditions. There is no handy service center to go to for assistance and
we
> are pretty much on our own for repairs. Any major repairs would require m
e
> removing engine and shipping it south to a service center. Less major it
ems
> such as installing improvements (I removed and reinstalled the old clutc
h
> when I had it updated, by a service center, with the slipper clutch. The
> 912s has been a very reliable engine and to date has only had one other
> issue (electrical) and that was sorted out through advice from this forum
as
> it was a similar experience. Hence the new request for advice. As with an
y
> advice it has to be weighted for it usefulness and that can be based on
> experience and =93profession=94 advice when available.
>
> Back to my issue I am just trying to sort it out before the snow flies
> rather than put the plane away in its current condition. The fuel issue i
s
> just a little odd to me though as it was working fine after the last flig
ht
> and then after two weeks docked there is a problem.
>
> Thanks again for the advice and I will let all know how it turns out if I
> get the opportunity to resolve before freeze up.
>
> Shane
>
> *From:* b d <gpabruce@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:22 PM
> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running
>
> What I outlined by removing the fuel line and check the fuel flow to the
> carb will segregate/isolate the problem between the fuel system and the
> carburetor that is if you don't have two problems. Rather than a visual
> inspection as mentioned to find a crimped line, if you do this simple
> procedure it will tell you where your problem is and where it's not. If y
ou
> have good fuel flow down to your carburetor, your problem is in the
> carburetor. If not it's up between there and the tank which requires more
> diagnoses. I disagree with the PE. An inexperienced person, including a P
E
> should not be experimenting on an aircraft carburetor to save a dime. I a
lso
> disagree with the PE that the fuel needs to go bad to have a clogging
> problem. That is simply not true. Fuel won't go bad in a few weeks but i
t
> will evaporate in a carb float bowl and leave residue in the jets. All la
wn
> mower mechanics on up know this. The fuel in the tank can be perfectly go
od
> while the fuel in the carb float bowl many times will evaporate (especial
ly
> if left in the heat) and leave the jets plugged up. So, with that said, t
he
> smell of fuel only indicates really old fuel but is no indication or help
> with the problem you are describing. You most likely have clogged jets fo
und
> in the summer heat in every gas engine today. The question is, do you hav
e
> the expertise to DIY your own carb? Again, not to hurt your feelings but
I
> would say no or you would have known how to isolate this simple problem,
and
> so should the PE have known how to segregate and isolate the problem. It'
s
> very logical and systematic. No superstition or black magic, no voodoo or
PE
> required. . . does the fuel make it to the carb or not . . .??? It's as
> simple as "can water run downhill?" Not brain surgery . . . :-)
>
> Bruce
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. <paul@eucleides.com>
wrote:
>
>> paul@eucleides.com>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, September 20, 2011 7:50 pm, Shane Sather wrote:
>> > If you are referring to the gas cap vents I did check them and they ar
e
>> clear.
>> >
>> > Thanks Shane
>>
>> My 2 cents' worth -- I'd suspect floats sticking or needle stuck. It's n
ot
>> really too
>> difficult to carefully remove the float bowl to see if the float drops
>> down as it
>> should and that the needle is away from the seat. If either is sticking,
>> cleaning the
>> pivot pin or the needle and seat with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol should
>> do the trick.
>> It the needle has some polymer tip as some do, I can't say if it is OK o
r
>> not to get
>> rubbing alcohol on it but if it is brass, no problem. After that, when t
he
>> engine runs
>> the normal fuel flow should keep it clean. I'm assuming that the gasolin
e
>> isn't
>> failing due to age and heat exposure. When I've seen that condition (old
>> fuel) it
>> smells odd and makes the engine almost impossible to start and you get
>> detonation when
>> it does start. This doesn't happen over a few day though. But it can
>> happen in a few
>> weeks.
>>
>> So, check that you have fuel flowing to the float bowls and that the
>> floats aren't
>> sticking and the needle isn't stuck to the seat.
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
>> PAF Consulting Engineers
>> Office 425.440.9505
>> Cell 425.241.1618
>>
>> ==========
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> *
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Bruce,
With all due respect, have you ever seen a Rotax 912 engine let alone
work on one? Are you aware of the basic plumbing design of this
application? Part of your earlier comment referring to the possibility
of injector issues implies that your responses are generic and in fact
may have no application to this specific problem. To imply that if
someone posts question to this list they are automatically disqualified
from working on their airplane is disrespectful nonsense.
Lowell
From: b d
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running
What I outlined by removing the fuel line and check the fuel flow to the
carb will segregate/isolate the problem between the fuel system and the
carburetor that is if you don't have two problems. Rather than a visual
inspection as mentioned to find a crimped line, if you do this simple
procedure it will tell you where your problem is and where it's not. If
you have good fuel flow down to your carburetor, your problem is in the
carburetor. If not it's up between there and the tank which requires
more diagnoses. I disagree with the PE. An inexperienced person,
including a PE should not be experimenting on an aircraft carburetor to
save a dime. I also disagree with the PE that the fuel needs to go bad
to have a clogging problem. That is simply not true. Fuel won't go bad
in a few weeks but it will evaporate in a carb float bowl and leave
residue in the jets. All lawn mower mechanics on up know this. The fuel
in the tank can be perfectly good while the fuel in the carb float bowl
many times will evaporate (especially if left in the heat) and leave the
jets plugged up. So, with that said, the smell of fuel only indicates
really old fuel but is no indication or help with the problem you are
describing. You most likely have clogged jets found in the summer heat
in every gas engine today. The question is, do you have the expertise to
DIY your own carb? Again, not to hurt your feelings but I would say no
or you would have known how to isolate this simple problem, and so
should the PE have known how to segregate and isolate the problem. It's
very logical and systematic. No superstition or black magic, no voodoo
or PE required. . . does the fuel make it to the carb or not . . .???
It's as simple as "can water run downhill?" Not brain surgery . . . :-)
Bruce
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E.
<paul@eucleides.com> wrote:
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Tue, September 20, 2011 7:50 pm, Shane Sather wrote:
> If you are referring to the gas cap vents I did check them and they
are clear.
>
> Thanks Shane
My 2 cents' worth -- I'd suspect floats sticking or needle stuck. It's
not really too
difficult to carefully remove the float bowl to see if the float drops
down as it
should and that the needle is away from the seat. If either is
sticking, cleaning the
pivot pin or the needle and seat with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol
should do the trick.
It the needle has some polymer tip as some do, I can't say if it is OK
or not to get
rubbing alcohol on it but if it is brass, no problem. After that, when
the engine runs
the normal fuel flow should keep it clean. I'm assuming that the
gasoline isn't
failing due to age and heat exposure. When I've seen that condition
(old fuel) it
smells odd and makes the engine almost impossible to start and you get
detonation when
it does start. This doesn't happen over a few day though. But it can
happen in a few
weeks.
So, check that you have fuel flowing to the float bowls and that the
floats aren't
sticking and the needle isn't stuck to the seat.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
==========
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Kiss off Lowell . . . . With all due respect . . :-)
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> **
> Bruce,
> With all due respect, have you ever seen a Rotax 912 engine let alone work
> on one? Are you aware of the basic plumbing design of this application? Part
> of your earlier comment referring to the possibility of injector issues
> implies that your responses are generic and in fact may have no application
> to this specific problem. To imply that if someone posts question to this
> list they are automatically disqualified from working on their airplane is
> disrespectful nonsense.
> Lowell
>
> *From:* b d <gpabruce@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:22 PM
> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running
>
> What I outlined by removing the fuel line and check the fuel flow to the
> carb will segregate/isolate the problem between the fuel system and the
> carburetor that is if you don't have two problems. Rather than a visual
> inspection as mentioned to find a crimped line, if you do this simple
> procedure it will tell you where your problem is and where it's not. If you
> have good fuel flow down to your carburetor, your problem is in the
> carburetor. If not it's up between there and the tank which requires more
> diagnoses. I disagree with the PE. An inexperienced person, including a PE
> should not be experimenting on an aircraft carburetor to save a dime. I also
> disagree with the PE that the fuel needs to go bad to have a clogging
> problem. That is simply not true. Fuel won't go bad in a few weeks but it
> will evaporate in a carb float bowl and leave residue in the jets. All lawn
> mower mechanics on up know this. The fuel in the tank can be perfectly good
> while the fuel in the carb float bowl many times will evaporate (especially
> if left in the heat) and leave the jets plugged up. So, with that said, the
> smell of fuel only indicates really old fuel but is no indication or help
> with the problem you are describing. You most likely have clogged jets found
> in the summer heat in every gas engine today. The question is, do you have
> the expertise to DIY your own carb? Again, not to hurt your feelings but I
> would say no or you would have known how to isolate this simple problem, and
> so should the PE have known how to segregate and isolate the problem. It's
> very logical and systematic. No superstition or black magic, no voodoo or PE
> required. . . does the fuel make it to the carb or not . . .??? It's as
> simple as "can water run downhill?" Not brain surgery . . . :-)
>
> Bruce
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. <paul@eucleides.com>wrote:
>
>> paul@eucleides.com>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, September 20, 2011 7:50 pm, Shane Sather wrote:
>> > If you are referring to the gas cap vents I did check them and they are
>> clear.
>> >
>> > Thanks Shane
>>
>> My 2 cents' worth -- I'd suspect floats sticking or needle stuck. It's not
>> really too
>> difficult to carefully remove the float bowl to see if the float drops
>> down as it
>> should and that the needle is away from the seat. If either is sticking,
>> cleaning the
>> pivot pin or the needle and seat with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol should
>> do the trick.
>> It the needle has some polymer tip as some do, I can't say if it is OK or
>> not to get
>> rubbing alcohol on it but if it is brass, no problem. After that, when the
>> engine runs
>> the normal fuel flow should keep it clean. I'm assuming that the gasoline
>> isn't
>> failing due to age and heat exposure. When I've seen that condition (old
>> fuel) it
>> smells odd and makes the engine almost impossible to start and you get
>> detonation when
>> it does start. This doesn't happen over a few day though. But it can
>> happen in a few
>> weeks.
>>
>> So, check that you have fuel flowing to the float bowls and that the
>> floats aren't
>> sticking and the needle isn't stuck to the seat.
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
>> PAF Consulting Engineers
>> Office 425.440.9505
>> Cell 425.241.1618
>>
>> ==========
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Hmmm, Are you guys building airplanes without a fuel pressure gauge?
10-4 Lowell.
Replace the fuel lines regulraly, especially if not using SAE auto lines.
Of course you could repeat the fuel flow test like the one done
before first flight.
PaulW
====
At 10:36 PM 9/20/2011, you wrote:
>One thought, and likely not the answer you are seeking. I once had
>a fuel flow issue that led to a rough running engine on departure
>and a return to the airport. I mention it because you say you
>replaced your fuel pump. What I did is replace all engine
>compartment fuel lines, then when tightening the firesleeve clamps,
>crimped the fuel line to almost no fuel flow. I guess the question
>is, have you visually inspected the fuel lines to see if you can see
>light at the end of the "tunnel". That is how I found my problem as
>everything appeared fine from the external view point, but when
>holding the lines out straight, I couldn't see any opening in the
>lines. There was another guy years ago that had double clamps on
>all fuel lines and he had a habit of tightening a bit more at each
>annual. He finally did what I did, but using a different method.
>Lowell
>
>From: <mailto:shanesather@netkaster.ca>Shane Sather
>Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:09 PM
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox list
>Subject: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running
>
>Hello Listers
>
>My 912s is giving me a hard time, it will not stay running. I prime
>it, it starts and then runs for a minuet or so and then it is out of
>fuel. I thought it was the fuel pump but that is not the case (i
>replaced the old one). It is almost like the carbs are not creating
>vacuum or are plugged or blocked somehow. It is odd as it was
>running fine when I landed last time. Since that time the Kitfox has
>been dry docked. We did have a very big wind storm and the plane was
>rocking on the dock. Could something have shaken loose or got stuck.
>There is fuel in the wing tanks, fuel to small tank (it is full)
>behind the seats. There was fuel in the line to the pump when I
>changed the pump. But the main lines to the carbs do not appear to
>be full. It seems that the only fuel getting to the carbs is from
>the priming. Any ideas?
>
>Thanks Shane
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Shane, My information indicates you may have a manual fuel pump (engine
driven pump I presume they mean). Is this what you said you changed out with
a new one? Did you test the old one to verify if it had a problem? I would
and if it didn't have a problem you may want to save it as a spare.
Do you have a fuel pressure gauge on the panel? and if so what does it read?
Bruce
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Shane Sather <shanesather@netkaster.ca>wrote:
> Hello Listers
>
> My 912s is giving me a hard time, it will not stay running. I prime it, it
> starts and then runs for a minuet or so and then it is out of fuel. I
> thought it was the fuel pump but that is not the case (i replaced the old
> one). It is almost like the carbs are not creating vacuum or are plugged or
> blocked somehow. It is odd as it was running fine when I landed last time.
> Since that time the Kitfox has been dry docked. We did have a very big wind
> storm and the plane was rocking on the dock. Could something have shaken
> loose or got stuck. There is fuel in the wing tanks, fuel to small tank (it
> is full) behind the seats. There was fuel in the line to the pump when I
> changed the pump. But the main lines to the carbs do not appear to be full.
> It seems that the only fuel getting to the carbs is from the priming. Any
> ideas?
>
> Thanks Shane
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Shane,
It is not likely that the same problem would occur in both carbs at the
same time. Try substituting your fuel source. Bypass the pump and all
existing fuel lines by feeding both carbs with fuel by two equal fuel bottles
hung over the aircraft on a bridge built of wood or other material. Gravity
feed both carbs by connecting with equal fuel tubing. A 1/4 cup of fuel in
each bottle will be plenty to confirm the test. I am betting your pump
change out is faulty or some other common blockage has occured.
John
In a message dated 9/20/2011 9:12:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
shanesather@netkaster.ca writes:
Hello Listers
My 912s is giving me a hard time, it will not stay running. I prime it, it
starts and then runs for a minuet or so and then it is out of fuel. I
thought it was the fuel pump but that is not the case (i replaced the old one).
It is almost like the carbs are not creating vacuum or are plugged or
blocked somehow. It is odd as it was running fine when I landed last time.
Since that time the Kitfox has been dry docked. We did have a very big wind
storm and the plane was rocking on the dock. Could something have shaken loose
or got stuck. There is fuel in the wing tanks, fuel to small tank (it is
full) behind the seats. There was fuel in the line to the pump when I changed
the pump. But the main lines to the carbs do not appear to be full. It
seems that the only fuel getting to the carbs is from the priming. Any ideas?
Thanks Shane
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
Shane, Have you been running auto fuel with ethanol in it? If so your
fuel system is deteriorating and coming apart internally ? Bob
From: KITFOXZ@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:22 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running
Shane,
It is not likely that the same problem would occur in both carbs at
the same time. Try substituting your fuel source. Bypass the pump and
all existing fuel lines by feeding both carbs with fuel by two equal
fuel bottles hung over the aircraft on a bridge built of wood or other
material. Gravity feed both carbs by connecting with equal fuel tubing.
A 1/4 cup of fuel in each bottle will be plenty to confirm the test. I
am betting your pump change out is faulty or some other common blockage
has occured.
John
In a message dated 9/20/2011 9:12:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
shanesather@netkaster.ca writes:
Hello Listers
My 912s is giving me a hard time, it will not stay running. I prime
it, it starts and then runs for a minuet or so and then it is out of
fuel. I thought it was the fuel pump but that is not the case (i
replaced the old one). It is almost like the carbs are not creating
vacuum or are plugged or blocked somehow. It is odd as it was running
fine when I landed last time. Since that time the Kitfox has been dry
docked. We did have a very big wind storm and the plane was rocking on
the dock. Could something have shaken loose or got stuck. There is fuel
in the wing tanks, fuel to small tank (it is full) behind the seats.
There was fuel in the line to the pump when I changed the pump. But the
main lines to the carbs do not appear to be full. It seems that the only
fuel getting to the carbs is from the priming. Any ideas?
Thanks Shane
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 912s will not stay running |
On Wed, September 21, 2011 7:22 pm, KITFOXZ@aol.com wrote:
> Shane,
>
> It is not likely that the same problem would occur in both carbs at the
> same time. Try substituting your fuel source. Bypass the pump and all
> existing fuel lines by feeding both carbs with fuel by two equal fuel bottles
> hung over the aircraft on a bridge built of wood or other material. Gravity
> feed both carbs by connecting with equal fuel tubing. A 1/4 cup of fuel in
> each bottle will be plenty to confirm the test. I am betting your pump
> change out is faulty or some other common blockage has occured.
>
> John
If the weather contributed, maybe the float bowls are both full of water or worse
yet
- ice. Removing the float bowls carefully will let you see if they have water or
contaminants and that ice isn't blocking anything. If the cause is water or ice,
after
inspecting and draining the float bowls, my guess is preheating the engine compartment
and running the engine could then relieve the problem.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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