---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/25/11: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:18 AM - 582 blues - Bing 54 (Marco Menezes) 2. 08:27 AM - Re: 582 blues - Bing 54 (Dave Fisher) 3. 05:23 PM - how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle (n85ae) 4. 06:04 PM - Re: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle (dave) 5. 06:29 PM - Re: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle (Guy Buchanan) 6. 06:45 PM - Re: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle (n85ae) 7. 09:16 PM - Re: Re: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle (Michael Gibbs) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:11 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 blues - Bing 54 More info: Plugs are wet and black, especially rear cylinder. It's obviousl y running super-rich but much more so than would occur from simply having m oved jet needle clip one knotch. Could worn or plugged float needle be the cause?=0A-=0AMarco Menezes N99KX=0AModel 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch=0AHe rsey, MI ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:05 AM PST US From: "Dave Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 blues - Bing 54 MArco did you read my post ? You might have put the plastic plug in the slider prior to the needle. It happens. Pull them out and check Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Marco Menezes To: Matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 11:15 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 blues - Bing 54 More info: Plugs are wet and black, especially rear cylinder. It's obviously running super-rich but much more so than would occur from simply having moved jet needle clip one knotch. Could worn or plugged float needle be the cause? Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch Hersey, MI ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:47 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle From: "n85ae" Here's my "Never gonna do that again" experience for the year. Discovered nearly fatally a aerodynamic combo my plane will not tolerate. Steep descent to get through a hole in the clouds, pulled 22 degrees flaperon's to see how they'd work as a drag producer (aka dive brakes) never expected an instant accelerated stall, pushing me over vertical. Everything from the luggage sack plastered on the ceiling. Including me if not for seat belts. Imagine that you're really nose down to begin, and then the nose rips out from under you. There was no warning, just instant drop! Almost like a forward tumble. Miracle I had presence of mind to push not pull on the stick, nearly pulled a muscle grabbing for the flaperon handle at near upside down. Recovery came right away after getting the flaperons back to 11 degrees. Then it was just a matter of pulling out of a vertical dive like a spin recovery. Had to land at the nearest airport to literally clean up the cockpit. Everything that was stowed was no longer in place, but up on the floor in the front or on the glareshield. Next mod to N85AE is a mechanical block to remove 22 degrees from being used (ever). First time in 7 years flying that plane that I ever had that happen. Jeff Hays Series 5, IO240B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353188#353188 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:12 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle From: "dave" Never flown a mod 5 -- I will tell you that my mod 4 I have 33 degree down on the flapperons and are a real attribute if you know how to use them. Take off or landing only 1/2 flaps except when you trying to bust loose from glassy water or trying to get out of soft sand or mud. Full power and part flaps only until you ready to fly but plane just ain;t there yet -- Rip those full flapperons all the way to 33 degrees and it will help you bust loose - keep nosedown and bleed off to 1/2 flaps as soon as you can. Kitfox flapperons are not like a cessna with 40 degrees for drag - they limit your roll control. I test flew a mod 2 a while back and took off in reflex --scary -- my fault it was marked take off at the half flap point in mine..... that was zero flapperons. I had it shoved full forward and once o broke the ground I noticed to roll control and could not combat the crosswind... within a second I knew what happened and pull them back to my half way point which was Zero on this one -- it happens. -------- Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer Hundreds of Kitfox Movies Most viewed Kitfox on youtube Most popular on youtube Highest rated on youtube Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353192#353192 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:12 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle On 9/25/2011 5:19 PM, n85ae wrote: > Had to land at the nearest airport to literally clean up the cockpit. > Everything that was stowed was no longer in place, but up on the floor > in the front or on the glareshield. > > Next mod to N85AE is a mechanical block to remove 22 degrees from > being used (ever). > > First time in 7 years flying that plane that I ever had that happen. > YEEHAW! Sounds exciting. Can't say I've ever pulled sustained negative on the IV. Glad you survived to tell the tale. Interestingly my dad had that happen flying an AD-1 as a lad, but it was caused by the dive brakes: he pulled them on during a bombing run and the plane shifted into a stable -g pitch-down which he was just barely able to arrest with the elevator until he could get the brakes off. Guy Buchanan Ramona, CA Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded Now a glider pilot, too. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:35 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle From: "n85ae" I use 11 degrees a lot for landing, the plane handles great, plus I get a better over the nose view on final and still have no problems flaring for landing even with the heavy motor. 22 degrees has always felt really horrible, as it takes full trim and still some back pressure. Not to mention the roll control is really odd feeling. Recently I added the spring assist system, and I suspect this led me into a trap that all that pressure you normally hold is telling you something. With the spring assist, you don't feel like your holding so much. Pop in 22 degrees going a bit fast, and probably at a higher than normal AOA and voila instant stall. Not what I expected at the moment, or attitude I was at. Nose down in a descent, a sudden stall is not in the program normally. The other possibility is I got a tail stall which would have snapped the nose down as well. But I'm really not sure. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353197#353197 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:00 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: how to kill yourself with the flaperon handle >I use 11 degrees a lot for landing...22 degrees has always felt >really horrible, as it take full trim and still some back pressure. >Not to mention the roll control is really odd feeling. I routinely used full flaps (22 degrees) on my Model IV-1200 Speedster with no ill-effects. While there is less roll authority with them down that far, it's no less than an ordinary airplane probably has on a good day. I think Kitfox/Avid drivers become quite spoiled to the responsiveness these airplanes deliver. Mike G. Phoenix, AZ N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.