Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 (Marco Menezes)
2. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 (Lowell Fitt)
3. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 (Lynn Matteson)
4. 11:30 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 (Marco Menezes)
5. 01:39 PM - Re: Tygon tubing 5/16 id (mikeperkins)
6. 01:39 PM - Re: Tygon tubing 5/16 id (mikeperkins)
7. 03:57 PM - Re: changes in EAA? (Patrick Reilly)
8. 06:37 PM - Re: changes in EAA? (floran higgins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot of thought
went into the initial decision to fly over the big water. At the end I had enough
confidence in my airplane to decide that the risk of engine failure occurring
precisely during the 30 minutes I was over water was very small. As an added
precaution, I attained 10k MSL before going "feet wet" calculating that, worst
case scenario, I could glide to a beach landing on either side. Finally, concluding
that the longer any flight, the higher the risk, the much shorter over-water
route seemed natural.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
Hersey, MI
On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when we did our emergency
landing that destroyed our airplane and put both of us in the hospital.
We were less than fifteen minutes out of Cameron Park in the foothills of
the Sierras on our way to Idaho for the factory fly-in. The question, " What
would have happened if we had had to put the airplane down 30 minutes later.
Well we were on the ground less than a mile from EMTs at a fire station. A sheriffs
deputy was on scene within five minutes. Thirty minutes later we would
have been over the Desolation Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a
back packer on scene within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the risk
management might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or so of flying
the New Model IV.
> Lowell
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>
>>
>> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated or ignored
(i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely on the probability
of having trouble over the water being very, very small).
>>
>> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home airport there's
probably help nearby and they typically can get to you quickly. And you'll
be able to breathe while waiting for them. With average water temperatures
in the 40F-50F range, if you end up in the drink you'll only last about 30-60
minutes before you are exhausted and/or unconscious--any rescue will have to be
there before that happens.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>> Phoenix, AZ
>>
>>
>>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point from Cape
Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over water each way and
in contact with lake reporting service the entire time. For me it shaves hours
off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so than 30 minutes
in the pattern at your favorite airport.
>>>
>>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>>> Hersey, MI
>>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly <<mailto:patreilly43@gmail.com>patreilly43@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>>
>>>> Pat Reilly
>>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>>> Rockford, IL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
Marco,
I think you nailed the risk management idea. My wife works for UAL and
flies mostly to Asia and Australia. My phone has an app that follows ATC
controlled flights. It was interesting to find that all trans Pacific
flights are within a relatively short distance from land. To Beijing for
example it looks like they might be in visual contact with the Aleutians,
then down the coast of East Asia. To Australia, they pass within an hour of
Hawaii etc. I think you planned well.
Lowell
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Marco Menezes" <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>
> I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot of
> thought went into the initial decision to fly over the big water. At the
> end I had enough confidence in my airplane to decide that the risk of
> engine failure occurring precisely during the 30 minutes I was over water
> was very small. As an added precaution, I attained 10k MSL before going
> "feet wet" calculating that, worst case scenario, I could glide to a beach
> landing on either side. Finally, concluding that the longer any flight,
> the higher the risk, the much shorter over-water route seemed natural.
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
> Hersey, MI
>
> On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when we did
>> our emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put both of us in
>> the hospital. We were less than fifteen minutes out of Cameron Park in
>> the foothills of the Sierras on our way to Idaho for the factory fly-in.
>> The question, " What would have happened if we had had to put the
>> airplane down 30 minutes later. Well we were on the ground less than a
>> mile from EMTs at a fire station. A sheriffs deputy was on scene within
>> five minutes. Thirty minutes later we would have been over the Desolation
>> Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a back packer on scene
>> within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the risk management
>> might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or so of flying the
>> New Model IV.
>> Lowell
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>>
>>>
>>> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated or
>>> ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely on the
>>> probability of having trouble over the water being very, very small).
>>>
>>> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home
>>> airport there's probably help nearby and they typically can get to you
>>> quickly. And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for them. With
>>> average water temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if you end up in the
>>> drink you'll only last about 30-60 minutes before you are exhausted
>>> and/or unconscious--any rescue will have to be there before that
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> Mike G.
>>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>>> Phoenix, AZ
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point
>>>> from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over
>>>> water each way and in contact with lake reporting service the entire
>>>> time. For me it shaves hours off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some
>>>> might argue no more so than 30 minutes in the pattern at your favorite
>>>> airport.
>>>>
>>>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>>>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>>>> Hersey, MI
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly
>>>> <<mailto:patreilly43@gmail.com>patreilly43@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat Reilly
>>>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>>>> Rockford, IL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
Has your model got THAT good a glide ratio? When I did the mental
math....with NEVER a thought of actually doing it....it seemed like
there was a section in the middle of the flight that was a "no-man's
land" (or no-man's water in this case) where if the problem occurred
there, you would not be able to coast to either shore. Plus, the
winds would have to be very favorable for this to come out well. I
can understand the situation you are in, Marco, living straight
across from Oshkosh, or nearly so. My geographic location favors the
southern go-around, even though it adds about 45 minutes to the
flight for me. But that's an easy, non-puckering, flight for
me....pretty much over farm land all the way....and one that I'll be
making this Friday if the weather holds, and there's snow at Pioneer
Airport. (Annual Ski-plane Fly-in there)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1216 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Jan 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:
>
> I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot
> of thought went into the initial decision to fly over the big
> water. At the end I had enough confidence in my airplane to decide
> that the risk of engine failure occurring precisely during the 30
> minutes I was over water was very small. As an added precaution, I
> attained 10k MSL before going "feet wet" calculating that, worst
> case scenario, I could glide to a beach landing on either side.
> Finally, concluding that the longer any flight, the higher the
> risk, the much shorter over-water route seemed natural.
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
> Hersey, MI
>
> On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when
>> we did our emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put
>> both of us in the hospital. We were less than fifteen minutes out
>> of Cameron Park in the foothills of the Sierras on our way to
>> Idaho for the factory fly-in. The question, " What would have
>> happened if we had had to put the airplane down 30 minutes later.
>> Well we were on the ground less than a mile from EMTs at a fire
>> station. A sheriffs deputy was on scene within five minutes.
>> Thirty minutes later we would have been over the Desolation
>> Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky, a back packer on
>> scene within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the risk
>> management might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or
>> so of flying the New Model IV.
>> Lowell
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>>
>>> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>>
>>> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided,
>>> mitigated or ignored (i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure
>>> suit, or rely on the probability of having trouble over the water
>>> being very, very small).
>>>
>>> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home
>>> airport there's probably help nearby and they typically can get
>>> to you quickly. And you'll be able to breathe while waiting for
>>> them. With average water temperatures in the 40F-50F range, if
>>> you end up in the drink you'll only last about 30-60 minutes
>>> before you are exhausted and/or unconscious--any rescue will have
>>> to be there before that happens.
>>>
>>> Mike G.
>>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>>> Phoenix, AZ
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest
>>>> point from Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30
>>>> minutes over water each way and in contact with lake reporting
>>>> service the entire time. For me it shaves hours off the trip.
>>>> Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so than 30 minutes
>>>> in the pattern at your favorite airport.
>>>>
>>>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>>>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>>>> Hersey, MI
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly
>>>> <<mailto:patreilly43@gmail.com>patreilly43@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat Reilly
>>>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>>>> Rockford, IL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12 |
I did the calcs back then when i first did it Lynn and at 10k MSL there was theoretically
enough air underneath to make it across if engine quit at the halfway
point. This assumed as you noted, no headwind. Both times I did it, leaving
early from Ludington heading West, air was dead calm.
Marco Menezes N99KX
On Jan 15, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> Has your model got THAT good a glide ratio? When I did the mental math....with
NEVER a thought of actually doing it....it seemed like there was a section in
the middle of the flight that was a "no-man's land" (or no-man's water in this
case) where if the problem occurred there, you would not be able to coast to
either shore. Plus, the winds would have to be very favorable for this to come
out well. I can understand the situation you are in, Marco, living straight
across from Oshkosh, or nearly so. My geographic location favors the southern
go-around, even though it adds about 45 minutes to the flight for me. But that's
an easy, non-puckering, flight for me....pretty much over farm land all the
way....and one that I'll be making this Friday if the weather holds, and there's
snow at Pioneer Airport. (Annual Ski-plane Fly-in there)
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
> Status: flying with 1216 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:
>
>>
>> I appreciate your sentiments Mike and Lowell and rest assured, alot of thought
went into the initial decision to fly over the big water. At the end I had
enough confidence in my airplane to decide that the risk of engine failure occurring
precisely during the 30 minutes I was over water was very small. As an
added precaution, I attained 10k MSL before going "feet wet" calculating that,
worst case scenario, I could glide to a beach landing on either side. Finally,
concluding that the longer any flight, the higher the risk, the much shorter
over-water route seemed natural.
>>
>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
>> Hersey, MI
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2012, at 9:32 PM, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This bit of wisdom reminds me of the question my wife asked when we did our
emergency landing that destroyed our airplane and put both of us in the hospital.
We were less than fifteen minutes out of Cameron Park in the foothills of
the Sierras on our way to Idaho for the factory fly-in. The question, " What
would have happened if we had had to put the airplane down 30 minutes later.
Well we were on the ground less than a mile from EMTs at a fire station. A
sheriffs deputy was on scene within five minutes. Thirty minutes later we would
have been over the Desolation Wilderness just West of Lake Tahoe. If lucky,
a back packer on scene within an hour. No advice offered, but I suppose the
risk management might be a little tighter next time. Within a month or so of
flying the New Model IV.
>>> Lowell
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:44 PM
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/09/12
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Flying is all about risk management. Risk can be avoided, mitigated or ignored
(i.e., go around the lake, wear an exposure suit, or rely on the probability
of having trouble over the water being very, very small).
>>>>
>>>> You have to admit, though, Marco, that crashing next to your home airport
there's probably help nearby and they typically can get to you quickly. And you'll
be able to breathe while waiting for them. With average water temperatures
in the 40F-50F range, if you end up in the drink you'll only last about 30-60
minutes before you are exhausted and/or unconscious--any rescue will have to
be there before that happens.
>>>>
>>>> Mike G.
>>>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>>>> Phoenix, AZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 2 round trips to OSH, crossing Lake Michigan at its narrowest point from
Cape Sable, MI to Manitowoc, WI. Not more than 30 minutes over water each way
and in contact with lake reporting service the entire time. For me it shaves hours
off the trip. Risky? Perhaps but some might argue no more so than 30 minutes
in the pattern at your favorite airport.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marco Menezes N99KX
>>>>> Model 2 582-90 C-box 3:1 w/clutch
>>>>> Hersey, MI
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Patrick Reilly <<mailto:patreilly43@gmail.com>patreilly43@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Marco, Did you cross Lake MI?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pat Reilly
>>>>>> Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
>>>>>> Rockford, IL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tygon tubing 5/16 id |
Clear polyurethane tubing sold by Wicks Aircraft under p/n 0545-107 (3/8" ID) is
rated for fuel. And I've used it successfully for sight gauges with premixed
fuel/oil. However, it comes in every size except 5/16" ID.
--------
Mike Perkins
EAA TC/FA
Havana, Illinois
Model I, 532, B gearbox, GSC prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363894#363894
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tygon tubing 5/16 id |
Make that 0585-107. ;-o
--------
Mike Perkins
EAA TC/FA
Havana, Illinois
Model I, 532, B gearbox, GSC prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363895#363895
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
Too bad it isn't the FAA reducing size instead of constantly building a
worthless beauracy of absolutely no value to general aviation. But then why
worry when it's just taxpayers $.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal@yahoo.com>wrote:
> Hey Folks:
>
> The EAA canned a bunch of people today. Some reports suggest 35 were
> let go. A press release is full of wall-street corporate gobblygook
> about "capturing opportunities in its long term strategic plan" and
> that sort of thing. I'm pretty certain that we will continue to see
> the EAA look more and more like the NBAA and AOPA. More of the stuff
> that I really could care less about, and fewer of the people and
> airplanes that make my world go around.
>
> Oh well, nothing new, really.
>
> Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
> Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
> LSRM-A, PPC, WS
> Great Sails - Sailmaker
> for Ultralight & Light Sport
> (989)513-3022
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
Amen.
Floran Higgins
Helena Mt
Model 4 Speedster
912 ULS
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Reilly
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: changes in EAA?
Too bad it isn't the FAA reducing size instead of constantly building
a worthless beauracy of absolutely no value to general aviation. But
then why worry when it's just taxpayers $.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Malcolm Brubaker
<brubakermal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey Folks:
The EAA canned a bunch of people today. Some reports suggest 35 were
let go. A press release is full of wall-street corporate gobblygook
about "capturing opportunities in its long term strategic plan" and
that sort of thing. I'm pretty certain that we will continue to see
the EAA look more and more like the NBAA and AOPA. More of the stuff
that I really could care less about, and fewer of the people and
airplanes that make my world go around.
Oh well, nothing new, really.
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
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