Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - Engine options (jareds)
2. 08:27 AM - Re: Engine options (Guy Buchanan)
3. 01:59 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/21/12 (Charles Cook)
4. 05:29 PM - Balance Tires (Mike Chaney)
5. 06:11 PM - Re: Balance Tires (Roger Lee)
6. 07:06 PM - Re: Balance Tires (Noel Loveys)
7. 07:47 PM - Re: Engine options (jareds)
Message 1
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582 on my model 4 died. I have 2 of them setting on my shop floor now
with some major things wrong and according to LEAF i dont have enough
good parts out of the 2 to make a running one.
Considering selling the FOX but before i do just wondered if the list
might want to comment on engine options that aren't so exorbitant.
I did find a certified rotax mechanic that builds when paid for around $2600
Sounds too good to be true.
Any thoughts on what engine to put in or if someone is interested buying
as is or in tearing it down and rebuilding it so that they qualify for
'repairman certificate' then make me an offer.
Regards,
Jared
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine options |
On 3/22/2012 6:02 AM, jareds wrote:
> Considering selling the FOX but before i do just wondered if the list
> might want to comment on engine options that aren't so exorbitant.
> I did find a certified rotax mechanic that builds when paid for around
> $2600
> Sounds too good to be true.
Not sure what you mean, Jared. A complete rebuild, with crank, for a 582
should be around $2500. That would get you in the air unless your cases
are junk.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/21/12 |
Thanks to all who responded. I totally forgot to look for Mikes trouble shooting.
I usually go right to him for information and keep a hard copy in shop.
Sent from my iPad
Charles Cook
On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:00 AM, Kitfox-List Digest Server <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-03-21&Archive=Kitfox
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-03-21&Archive=Kitfox
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kitfox-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 03/21/12: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 11:20 AM - Re: Ignition problem (mikeperkins)
> 2. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: Ignition problem (Noel Loveys)
> 3. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Ignition problem (Dave)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:20:41 AM PST US
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ignition problem
> From: "mikeperkins" <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>
>
> I've not seen this exact problem, but I have a few thoughts based on the assumption
> that the system once did not perform this way.
>
> The 582 has the Ducati ignition system, meaning it's an electronic version where
> the coils and the tach are operated by a module. Here are the possibilities
> as I see them:
>
> 1) There is an open ground either at the ignition switch, ignition module, or
the
> tach. (Missing grounds can make very strange things happen.)
> 2) There is a short between one of the ignition cutoff wires ("mag" leads) and
> the tach lead.
> 3) The ignition module is bad.
>
> Here's what I'd do to troubleshoot.
>
> With all leads removed from the ignition switch, check that it works properly
with
> an ohmmeter (that the keyswitch connects the right terminals in the right
> positions, and also not in the wrong positions.) Also check for a short between
> the both mag leads and the tach wire.
>
> If everything seems ok to this point, or you can't test the switch easily, still
> leave the switch disconnected and hookup jumpers that can allow you to test-run
> the engine without the ignition switch - so you can start the engine and do
> an individual "mag check" with the engine running. See if the tach behaves.
>
>
> If the tach still misbehaves, then it's likely a bad ground somewhere on the
ignition
> module or (ugh) a bad ignition module.
>
> I'm sure you see the basic idea - check for problems with the switch and the
wiring.
> . . . and then run the engine isolated from as much of the aircraft wiring
> as possible to see if the Ducati ignition module is good or bad.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Mike Perkins
> Kitfox Model I (1994)
> 532 / GSC prop
> TC and FA
> Electronic Engineer
>
> --------
> Mike Perkins
> EAA TC/FA
> Havana, Illinois
> Model I, 532, B gearbox, GSC prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369069#369069
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:28:41 PM PST US
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ignition problem
>
>
> It's been a while since I've looked at the schematic for the 582 but if I
> remember correctly the tachometer does NOT go through the ignition module
> but operates from a separate coil in the magneto. There have been problems
> with the Westach tachometer seeing either too much or not enough voltage on
> the tach coil. My advice is what I did and get a TinyTach just be sure to
> wrap BOTH wires to either cylinder so it will read with either mag coil
> turned off.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikeperkins
> Sent: March 21, 2012 3:50 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ignition problem
>
> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>
> I've not seen this exact problem, but I have a few thoughts based on the
> assumption that the system once did not perform this way.
>
> The 582 has the Ducati ignition system, meaning it's an electronic version
> where the coils and the tach are operated by a module. Here are the
> possibilities as I see them:
>
> 1) There is an open ground either at the ignition switch, ignition module,
> or the tach. (Missing grounds can make very strange things happen.)
> 2) There is a short between one of the ignition cutoff wires ("mag" leads)
> and the tach lead.
> 3) The ignition module is bad.
>
> Here's what I'd do to troubleshoot.
>
> With all leads removed from the ignition switch, check that it works
> properly with an ohmmeter (that the keyswitch connects the right terminals
> in the right positions, and also not in the wrong positions.) Also check for
> a short between the both mag leads and the tach wire.
>
> If everything seems ok to this point, or you can't test the switch easily,
> still leave the switch disconnected and hookup jumpers that can allow you to
> test-run the engine without the ignition switch - so you can start the
> engine and do an individual "mag check" with the engine running. See if the
> tach behaves.
>
> If the tach still misbehaves, then it's likely a bad ground somewhere on the
> ignition module or (ugh) a bad ignition module.
>
> I'm sure you see the basic idea - check for problems with the switch and the
> wiring. . . . and then run the engine isolated from as much of the aircraft
> wiring as possible to see if the Ducati ignition module is good or bad.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Mike Perkins
> Kitfox Model I (1994)
> 532 / GSC prop
> TC and FA
> Electronic Engineer
>
> --------
> Mike Perkins
> EAA TC/FA
> Havana, Illinois
> Model I, 532, B gearbox, GSC prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369069#369069
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:58:47 PM PST US
> From: "Dave " <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ignition problem
>
>
>
> There are a fair number of people experiencing this issue if you use the
> proper terms in a Google search. To save you the effort Mike Stratford has
> written a number of informative articles on the Rotax engine, always the
> first place to look when you have a question IMO. # 49 addresses just this
> issue.
> http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/Part%2049%20-%204%20page.pdf
> here is the paragraph quoted from the article.
>
>
> Why does my Tach go Crazy During a Mag Check?: Before we get started I have
> to answer one of the most common questions about a
> Ducati System. Many operators panic when their electronic Tach does not
> respond as expected during a Mag check. Knowing how the circuit works one
> can actually expect
> to get strange Tach readings. The gray wire is connected to a common pair in
> the ignition poles with the circuit being completed to thru a ground wire.
> This produces the 6
> pulses per revolution the Tach is reading. During a Mag check the ignition
> voltage is dumped to ground thru a shorting cable (wire #8 in figure #2)
> killing one side of the dual
> ignition. The pulse or wave can come up the ground wire confusing the Tach
> as to the actual pulses being received. Moving the ground wire around will
> likely produce mixed
> results. Obviously a Mag check will not produce the standard GA rpm drop
> many pilots come to expect and there is little you can do to change that. It
> is best to just listen for
> the rpm drop and ignore the tach. END OF QUOTE
>
> T
> he upshot of the paragraph is don't worry about it. Good luck!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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I have always balanced my tires and rims when I install new tires.- Howev
er, when-I mentioned this to a few pilots flying non-experimental-aircr
aft (Cessena 150)-they said they didn't balance their tires.=0A-=0AWhat
is the standard out there?-=0A-=0AMike Chaney=0A1996 Kitfox IV=0AJabir
u 2200
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Balance Tires |
Hi Mike,
I balance all my customers tires and every single tire needs it.
You are wise to balance them. I never see tires that are balanced right after they
are mounted without weights. Out of balance tires can cause a lot of plane
shake. It's too easy to do to not do it.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369183#369183
Message 6
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If you have a tire that weighs several hundred pounds and runs down the
runway at better than a hundred miles an hour then I would say it better be
balanced. A $1.50 probably will never make it to 80 mph on the ground but I
bet they still have the marker for the tire valve on them
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Chaney
Sent: March 22, 2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Balance Tires
I have always balanced my tires and rims when I install new tires. However,
when I mentioned this to a few pilots flying non-experimental aircraft
(Cessena 150) they said they didn't balance their tires.
What is the standard out there?
Mike Chaney
1996 Kitfox IV
Jabiru 2200
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine options |
Case had some welds and incorrect machining apparently but i think one
of my cases would be usable.
I hadn't checked prices in ten years so good to know 2500 will get me
back up in the air. I was almost contemplating going back to the
cherokee's but they dont land in my pastures very well!
Thanks for the tip Guy
On 3/22/2012 10:26 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> On 3/22/2012 6:02 AM, jareds wrote:
>> Considering selling the FOX but before i do just wondered if the list
>> might want to comment on engine options that aren't so exorbitant.
>> I did find a certified rotax mechanic that builds when paid for
>> around $2600
>> Sounds too good to be true.
>
> Not sure what you mean, Jared. A complete rebuild, with crank, for a
> 582 should be around $2500. That would get you in the air unless your
> cases are junk.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> Ramona, CA
> Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
> Now a glider pilot, too.
>
>
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