---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/04/12: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:39 AM - Re: gas tank slosh (floran higgins) 2. 06:06 AM - Re: gas tank slosh (Rick) 3. 06:11 AM - Re: gas tank slosh (Vic Baker) 4. 06:35 AM - Re: gas tank sloshgas tank slosh (Catz631@aol.com) 5. 08:35 AM - Re: gas tank slosh (Lynn Matteson) 6. 12:00 PM - Re: gas tank slosh (Guy Buchanan) 7. 12:43 PM - Re: gas tank slosh (bob noffs) 8. 01:05 PM - Re: gas tank slosh (Roger Standley) 9. 02:23 PM - Re: 912s will not stay running (Shane Sather) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:32 AM PST US From: "floran higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh What ever you use make sure it is well grounded. I built a metal 15 gal tank with a electric pump. I thought that I had everything well grounded and then got a shock off of the rubber hose. The gas flowing through the hose was creating static electricy. I had to ground the hose nozzle to the pump frame and the landing gear and the pump frame to the hanger metal frame. Floran Higgins Helena, Mt Speedster 912ULS ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Standley To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh Lowell, you might look for some 5 Gallon Fuel Jug W/Hose Utility found at most Motorcycle shops. It is what I have been using with good success. Here is a link showing what I am suggesting: http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=180905118739&siteId=0& isClassified=false Roger ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowell Fitt To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh Bob, I have always used the plastic cans because I felt there would be less chance for damage if not handled exactly right. The problem with plastic cans available now - at least in California - the child/adult proof cans are pieces of junk. I have never spilled more fuel than I now do with these spill resistant super safety designed cans. The nozzles are impossible. I routinely cut out the safety latch system, but then the nozzle is so short they are worthless when refueling a car - can only empty the first half of the fuel. On the airplane, if the internal valve would seal properly, I guess they would be OK on the wing, but not tested here yet. Lowell From: bob noffs Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 6:49 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com ; avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com Subject: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh hi all, i have a gas tank slosh question. i am leaning more lately to hauling 93 octane from a gas station to my hangar. i usually fill from the mogas pump at my airport and haul back to the hangar in 5 gal cans anyway. got started on this while calibrating fuel gauges, measuring fuel cap. etc. and now find it no more trouble than taxiing to the pumps. plus station gas is 2 octane higher[no ethanol like airport fuel] and $.70/ gal cheaper. anyway.................what is anyones experience sloshing metal containers? i did a por 15 on a cycle tank once and was satisfied, no problems in years. i would never pour from these tanks. i have a pump set up with a glass filter.i think i have read tank looks clean after the cleaner must coat it anyway. i have several gerry cans and outboard tanks that would work well and i think more crash proof than plastic but all haven't been used in years and have some rust now. then again 5 gal. plastic cans are only $15 a piece. any opinions? bob noffs href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:52 AM PST US From: Rick Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh Guy, have you considered moving to New Hampshire :) Happy 4th! On 2012-07-03 21:25, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > On 7/3/2012 6:26 PM, Roger Standley wrote: >> Lowell, you might look for some 5 Gallon Fuel Jug W/Hose Utility >> found at most Motorcycle shops. It is what I have been using with good >> success. Here is a link showing what I am suggesting: > > The off-road guys have been getting hefty fines for using these in > SoCal. Idiotic, I know, but there it is. If it doesn't say DOT > approved can you're out of luck. Welcome to California. > > Guy Buchanan > Ramona, CA > Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded > Now a glider pilot, too. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:04 AM PST US From: "Vic Baker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh Well advised Floran, after feeling the hair on my arm raised from static electricity while fueling from a non-metallic tank years ago I would never use anything except a metal "safety" tank for aircraft fueling. (ground it to the aircraft frame and fuel cap by momentarily touching both before removing fuel cap) Or your method with a well grounded tank and nozzle. Vic Vic Baker Carson City, Nv Series 7 912ULS Warp ----- Original Message ----- From: floran higgins To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:39 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh What ever you use make sure it is well grounded. I built a metal 15 gal tank with a electric pump. I thought that I had everything well grounded and then got a shock off of the rubber hose. The gas flowing through the hose was creating static electricy. I had to ground the hose nozzle to the pump frame and the landing gear and the pump frame to the hanger metal frame. Floran Higgins Helena, Mt Speedster 912ULS ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Standley To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh Lowell, you might look for some 5 Gallon Fuel Jug W/Hose Utility found at most Motorcycle shops. It is what I have been using with good success. Here is a link showing what I am suggesting: http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=180905118739&siteId=0& isClassified=false Roger ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowell Fitt To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh Bob, I have always used the plastic cans because I felt there would be less chance for damage if not handled exactly right. The problem with plastic cans available now - at least in California - the child/adult proof cans are pieces of junk. I have never spilled more fuel than I now do with these spill resistant super safety designed cans. The nozzles are impossible. I routinely cut out the safety latch system, but then the nozzle is so short they are worthless when refueling a car - can only empty the first half of the fuel. On the airplane, if the internal valve would seal properly, I guess they would be OK on the wing, but not tested here yet. Lowell From: bob noffs Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 6:49 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com ; avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com Subject: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh hi all, i have a gas tank slosh question. i am leaning more lately to hauling 93 octane from a gas station to my hangar. i usually fill from the mogas pump at my airport and haul back to the hangar in 5 gal cans anyway. got started on this while calibrating fuel gauges, measuring fuel cap. etc. and now find it no more trouble than taxiing to the pumps. plus station gas is 2 octane higher[no ethanol like airport fuel] and $.70/ gal cheaper. anyway.................what is anyones experience sloshing metal containers? i did a por 15 on a cycle tank once and was satisfied, no problems in years. i would never pour from these tanks. i have a pump set up with a glass filter.i think i have read tank looks clean after the cleaner must coat it anyway. i have several gerry cans and outboard tanks that would work well and i think more crash proof than plastic but all haven't been used in years and have some rust now. then again 5 gal. plastic cans are only $15 a piece. any opinions? bob noffs href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:51 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank sloshgas tank slosh Lowell, I use a 30 gal gas caddy which was made by Handy (now Roughneck) avail from Northern tool. Have used it for at least 8 years. Works great ! Just fill it with 5 gal cans and then pump into your plane with attached rotary pump Piece of cake ! Dick Maddux Milton,Fl ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:16 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh When I was building my plane, this subject of static came up and I soldered some 1/4" braided and plated copper strap to the fuel tank filler necks. I ran the braid down the wing and attached it to the rear wing pivot point. This was prior to covering the wing, so the job is very well concealed. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062 Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip Electroair direct-fire ignition system Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm) Status: flying with 1303 hrs... (since 3-27-2006) On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:10 AM, Vic Baker wrote: > Well advised Floran, after feeling the hair on my arm raised from > static electricity while fueling from a non-metallic tank years ago > I would never use anything except a metal "safety" tank for > aircraft fueling. (ground it to the aircraft frame and fuel cap by > momentarily touching both before removing fuel cap) Or your method > with a well grounded tank and nozzle. > Vic > > Vic Baker > Carson City, Nv > Series 7 912ULS Warp > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: floran higgins > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:39 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh > > What ever you use make sure it is well grounded. > I built a metal 15 gal tank with a electric pump. > I thought that I had everything well grounded and then got a shock > off of the rubber hose. The gas flowing through the hose was > creating static electricy. I had to ground the hose nozzle to the > pump frame and the landing gear and the pump frame to the hanger > metal frame. > > Floran Higgins > Helena, Mt > Speedster > 912ULS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Standley > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh > > Lowell, you might look for some 5 Gallon Fuel Jug W/Hose Utility > found at most Motorcycle shops. It is what I have been using with > good success. Here is a link showing what I am suggesting: > > http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem? > itemId=180905118739&siteId=0&isClassified=false > > Roger > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lowell Fitt > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:48 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh > > Bob, > I have always used the plastic cans because I felt there would be > less chance for damage if not handled exactly right. The problem > with plastic cans available now - at least in California - the > child/adult proof cans are pieces of junk. I have never spilled > more fuel than I now do with these spill resistant super safety > designed cans. The nozzles are impossible. I routinely cut out > the safety latch system, but then the nozzle is so short they are > worthless when refueling a car - can only empty the first half of > the fuel. On the airplane, if the internal valve would seal > properly, I guess they would be OK on the wing, but not tested here > yet. > Lowell > > From: bob noffs > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 6:49 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com ; avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh > > hi all, > i have a gas tank slosh question. > i am leaning more lately to hauling 93 octane from a gas station > to my hangar. i usually fill from the mogas pump at my airport and > haul back to the hangar in 5 gal cans anyway. got started on this > while calibrating fuel gauges, measuring fuel cap. etc. and now > find it no more trouble than taxiing to the pumps. plus station gas > is 2 octane higher[no ethanol like airport fuel] and $.70/ gal > cheaper. > anyway.................what is anyones experience sloshing metal > containers? i did a por 15 on a cycle tank once and was satisfied, > no problems in years. i would never pour from these tanks. i have a > pump set up with a glass filter.i think i have read tank looks > clean after the cleaner must coat it anyway. i have several gerry > cans and outboard tanks that would work well and i think more crash > proof than plastic but all haven't been used in years and have some > rust now. > then again 5 gal. plastic cans are only $15 a piece. > any opinions? > bob noffs > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c_- > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:50 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh On 7/4/2012 8:34 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > When I was building my plane, this subject of static came up and I > soldered some 1/4" braided and plated copper strap to the fuel tank > filler necks. I ran the braid down the wing and attached it to the > rear wing pivot point. This was prior to covering the wing, so the job > is very well concealed. Wish mine had been done. I use an external wire to connect the filler neck to ground whenever I tank. Doubt it's necessary, but I don't want to try the experiment. Guy Buchanan Ramona, CA Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded Now a glider pilot, too. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh From: bob noffs the other shoe just hit the floor. i have been worrying about grounding. any other advice on that out there? bob noffs On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > > On 7/4/2012 8:34 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > >> When I was building my plane, this subject of static came up and I >> soldered some 1/4" braided and plated copper strap to the fuel tank filler >> necks. I ran the braid down the wing and attached it to the rear wing pivot >> point. This was prior to covering the wing, so the job is very well >> concealed. >> > > Wish mine had been done. I use an external wire to connect the filler neck > to ground whenever I tank. Doubt it's necessary, but I don't want to try > the experiment. > > > Guy Buchanan > Ramona, CA > Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded > Now a glider pilot, too. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:16 PM PST US From: "Roger Standley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh I guess I'm left wondering what others do when refueling their lawn mower, ATVs, chain saws, weed wackers and most of all, their CARS!!! How is refueling a plane any different? ----- Original Message ----- From: bob noffs To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 12:43 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas tank slosh the other shoe just hit the floor. i have been worrying about grounding. any other advice on that out there? bob noffs On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Guy Buchanan > wrote: > On 7/4/2012 8:34 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: When I was building my plane, this subject of static came up and I soldered some 1/4" braided and plated copper strap to the fuel tank filler necks. I ran the braid down the wing and attached it to the rear wing pivot point. This was prior to covering the wing, so the job is very well concealed. Wish mine had been done. I use an external wire to connect the filler neck to ground whenever I tank. Doubt it's necessary, but I don't want to try the experiment. Guy Buchanan Ramona, CA Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded Now a glider pilot, too. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:57 PM PST US From: "Shane Sather" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running Hello All Just an update on my issue. It is the start of my flying season now and the smaller lakes are ice free for landing. So I pulled out my Light squared and started working on my engine issue. I guessed it had to be a fuel issue so I ended up tracing it back to the header tank. On my set up there is a short length of black rubber hose in between the header tank outlet fitting and the metal fuel line that runs to the dash on off valve. The black rubber hose was the issue. As soon as I loosened one of the screw clamps fuel started to floe. The screw clamp had slide a bit and was pinching the rubber hose closed. So what I am going to do prevent this from happening again is to remove that length of hose and use a clear gas line hose instead the black rubber hose. I am guessing the rubber hose was installed to allow some movement or flex in the line. How have others set up their connection on this section of fuel line? Oh and the engine runs like a charm again. Thanks Shane From: Shane Sather Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:09 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: 912s will not stay running Hello Listers My 912s is giving me a hard time, it will not stay running. I prime it, it starts and then runs for a minuet or so and then it is out of fuel. I thought it was the fuel pump but that is not the case (i replaced the old one). It is almost like the carbs are not creating vacuum or are plugged or blocked somehow. It is odd as it was running fine when I landed last time. Since that time the Kitfox has been dry docked. We did have a very big wind storm and the plane was rocking on the dock. Could something have shaken loose or got stuck. There is fuel in the wing tanks, fuel to small tank (it is full) behind the seats. There was fuel in the line to the pump when I changed the pump. But the main lines to the carbs do not appear to be full. It seems that the only fuel getting to the carbs is from the priming. Any ideas? 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