Today's Message Index:
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1. 10:10 AM - Rotax 912ULS ETC (Clint Bazzill)
2. 10:32 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS ETC (Lyle Persels)
3. 12:55 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS ETC (Vic Baker)
4. 05:07 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS ETC (Dave)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS ETC |
Hi all=2C I have been reading about problems with the Rotax 912ULS. I ha
d some issues with this engine and will tell you what was done to solve thi
s. I attended the engine seminar at CPS in 1999=2C at that time Eric Tucker
mentioned the starting kick of the 912S engine at that time=2C I didn't kn
ow they had a 100 HP version and found it interesting. After the engine wo
rkshop I decided to sell my 912 UL and get the new engine=2C 25% increase
in HP with only a 3 lb weight gain seemed pretty good to me. I only had 36
0 hr on engine and found a buyer in our local chapter of EAA in Half Moon B
ay. Turned out to be my neighbor across the street. After installing
the engine it started up with no problem but as soon as I set it to idle i
t would load up=2C run rough and quit. I would empty the bowls and the sa
me thing would happen. I called Kerry at Lockwood and he thought the fuel
pump was putting out too much pressure but before he sent me a new one I bo
rrowed the old fuel pump from my other engine and it did the same thing. I
located another person who had a 912 ULS not Kitfox=2C he had the same pr
oblem but he said it just went away. I thought there must be a vibration p
roblem that was transferred to the carbs via the springs so I removed them
and the problem went away. I made a trip from Half Moon Bay to Tracy=2C Ca
to see a friend and when I tried to start the engine=2C it kicked the righ
t carb off. I put it back on and it did the same thing=2C NOT GOOD. I got
a ride back home and waited until traffic cleared and took my trailer and
hauled the Kitfox home. I ordered new springs for carb=2C cleaned the sock
et area and reinstalled the carbs. Then researched info on 912 engine=2C a
nd found that the pulse from the pickup was 20 degrees wide and on startup
the engine would fire on the trailing edge of pulse which would put the tim
ing at 6 deg BTDC. After 1000 RPM's it would jump to 26 deg BTDC. The tric
k was to get the engine to that speed so it would run smooth=2C difficult w
ith a high compression engine. My solution was to pull the enrichment cabl
e and crank the engine on idle for a full 10 seconds and then wait a full m
inute=2C open throttle 1 1/2 turns on veneer throttle and the engine would
start instantly running very smoothly. Since then I have modified the wait
ing time=2C depending on temp etc but it works great. Also=2C on shut down
I run engine to 2500 to 3000 RPM's=2C turn off ignitions and pull throttle
back to idle=2C this allows the engine to spool down without any kick back
s etc. I believe that most of the gear wear on the gear box is during star
tup and shutdown by the high compression engine. I believe Rotax recogni
zed this problem and started installing slipper clutches in all their 912 U
LS engines=2C they also put a new starter in that would turn the engine fas
ter on startup to get the engine turning faster. I had a prop strike a
t about 700 hours and sent gearbox back to Lockwood for inspection. Kerry'
s comment was=2C "what ever you do with your engine keep doing it as we see
no wear". My final conclusion is=2C the 912 ULS has some issues when new
on vibration on idle. Let it run with a higher RPM until the problem seems
to clear itself. Use a startup that eliminates the retarded timing. I
now have almost 1400 hours on this engine with 0 problems. It idles very s
moothly and with static only adjustments. I usually idle about 1800 RPM's
but it also runs very smoothly at 1500. No problems on landing and always
land with full idle. I installed this engine in my aircraft in 1999=2C and
I believe it the first one in a Kitfox. Clint Bazzill Cameron Park=2C Cali
f
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS ETC |
Thanks Clint.
With respect to the rough idle problem, I assume you're talking about
removing the small (but stiff) retaining springs that attach the carb to
the engine. I haven't had a problem with kickback on start on my 912ULS,
but I haven't been able to correct the horrible idle.
Lyle Persels
On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have been reading about problems with the Rotax 912ULS. I had
some issues with this engine and will tell you what was done to solve
this.
>
> I attended the engine seminar at CPS in 1999, at that time Eric Tucker
mentioned the starting kick of the 912S engine at that time, I didn't
>
> know they had a 100 HP version and found it interesting. After the
engine workshop I decided to sell my 912 UL and get the new engine, 25%
>
> increase in HP with only a 3 lb weight gain seemed pretty good to me.
I only had 360 hr on engine and found a buyer in our local chapter of
EAA
>
> in Half Moon Bay. Turned out to be my neighbor across the street.
>
> After installing the engine it started up with no problem but as
soon as I set it to idle it would load up, run rough and quit. I would
empty the bowls
>
> and the same thing would happen. I called Kerry at Lockwood and he
thought the fuel pump was putting out too much pressure but before he
sent me
>
> a new one I borrowed the old fuel pump from my other engine and it did
the same thing. I located another person who had a 912 ULS not Kitfox,
he
>
> had the same problem but he said it just went away. I thought there
must be a vibration problem that was transferred to the carbs via the
springs so
>
> I removed them and the problem went away. I made a trip from Half
Moon Bay to Tracy, Ca to see a friend and when I tried to start the
engine, it kicked the
>
> right carb off. I put it back on and it did the same thing, NOT GOOD.
I got a ride back home and waited until traffic cleared and took my
trailer and hauled
>
> the Kitfox home. I ordered new springs for carb, cleaned the socket
area and reinstalled the carbs. Then researched info on 912 engine, and
found that
>
> the pulse from the pickup was 20 degrees wide and on startup the
engine would fire on the trailing edge of pulse which would put the
timing at 6 deg BTDC.
>
> After 1000 RPM's it would jump to 26 deg BTDC. The trick was to get
the engine to that speed so it would run smooth, difficult with a high
compression
>
> engine. My solution was to pull the enrichment cable and crank the
engine on idle for a full 10 seconds and then wait a full minute, open
throttle 1 1/2 turns
>
> on veneer throttle and the engine would start instantly running very
smoothly. Since then I have modified the waiting time, depending on
temp etc but it
>
> works great. Also, on shut down I run engine to 2500 to 3000 RPM's,
turn off ignitions and pull throttle back to idle, this allows the
engine to spool down without
>
> any kick backs etc. I believe that most of the gear wear on the gear
box is during startup and shutdown by the high compression engine.
>
> I believe Rotax recognized this problem and started installing
slipper clutches in all their 912 ULS engines, they also put a new
starter in that would turn the
>
> engine faster on startup to get the engine turning faster.
>
> I had a prop strike at about 700 hours and sent gearbox back to
Lockwood for inspection. Kerry's comment was, "what ever you do with
your engine keep doing it
>
> as we see no wear". My final conclusion is, the 912 ULS has some
issues when new on vibration on idle. Let it run with a higher RPM
until the problem seems to
>
> clear itself. Use a startup that eliminates the retarded timing.
>
> I now have almost 1400 hours on this engine with 0 problems. It
idles very smoothly and with static only adjustments. I usually idle
about 1800 RPM's but it also
>
> runs very smoothly at 1500. No problems on landing and always land
with full idle. I installed this engine in my aircraft in 1999, and I
believe it the first one in a Kitfox.
>
> Clint Bazzill
>
> Cameron Park, Calif
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS ETC |
Clint,
Good post.
Thanks,
Vic
Carson City
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: Kitfox list ; Kitfox List List
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:09 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912ULS ETC
Hi all,
I have been reading about problems with the Rotax 912ULS. I had
some issues with this engine and will tell you what was done to solve
this.
I attended the engine seminar at CPS in 1999, at that time Eric Tucker
mentioned the starting kick of the 912S engine at that time, I didn't
know they had a 100 HP version and found it interesting. After the
engine workshop I decided to sell my 912 UL and get the new engine, 25%
increase in HP with only a 3 lb weight gain seemed pretty good to me.
I only had 360 hr on engine and found a buyer in our local chapter of
EAA
in Half Moon Bay. Turned out to be my neighbor across the street.
After installing the engine it started up with no problem but as
soon as I set it to idle it would load up, run rough and quit. I would
empty the bowls
and the same thing would happen. I called Kerry at Lockwood and he
thought the fuel pump was putting out too much pressure but before he
sent me
a new one I borrowed the old fuel pump from my other engine and it did
the same thing. I located another person who had a 912 ULS not Kitfox,
he
had the same problem but he said it just went away. I thought there
must be a vibration problem that was transferred to the carbs via the
springs so
I removed them and the problem went away. I made a trip from Half
Moon Bay to Tracy, Ca to see a friend and when I tried to start the
engine, it kicked the
right carb off. I put it back on and it did the same thing, NOT GOOD.
I got a ride back home and waited until traffic cleared and took my
trailer and hauled
the Kitfox home. I ordered new springs for carb, cleaned the socket
area and reinstalled the carbs. Then researched info on 912 engine, and
found that
the pulse from the pickup was 20 degrees wide and on startup the
engine would fire on the trailing edge of pulse which would put the
timing at 6 deg BTDC.
After 1000 RPM's it would jump to 26 deg BTDC. The trick was to get
the engine to that speed so it would run smooth, difficult with a high
compression
engine. My solution was to pull the enrichment cable and crank the
engine on idle for a full 10 seconds and then wait a full minute, open
throttle 1 1/2 turns
on veneer throttle and the engine would start instantly running very
smoothly. Since then I have modified the waiting time, depending on
temp etc but it
works great. Also, on shut down I run engine to 2500 to 3000 RPM's,
turn off ignitions and pull throttle back to idle, this allows the
engine to spool down without
any kick backs etc. I believe that most of the gear wear on the gear
box is during startup and shutdown by the high compression engine.
I believe Rotax recognized this problem and started installing
slipper clutches in all their 912 ULS engines, they also put a new
starter in that would turn the
engine faster on startup to get the engine turning faster.
I had a prop strike at about 700 hours and sent gearbox back to
Lockwood for inspection. Kerry's comment was, "what ever you do with
your engine keep doing it
as we see no wear". My final conclusion is, the 912 ULS has some
issues when new on vibration on idle. Let it run with a higher RPM
until the problem seems to
clear itself. Use a startup that eliminates the retarded timing.
I now have almost 1400 hours on this engine with 0 problems. It
idles very smoothly and with static only adjustments. I usually idle
about 1800 RPM's but it also
runs very smoothly at 1500. No problems on landing and always land
with full idle. I installed this engine in my aircraft in 1999, and I
believe it the first one in a Kitfox.
Clint Bazzill
Cameron Park, Calif
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS ETC |
well said Clint
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: Kitfox list ; Kitfox List List
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:09 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912ULS ETC
Hi all,
I have been reading about problems with the Rotax 912ULS. I had
some issues with this engine and will tell you what was done to solve
this.
I attended the engine seminar at CPS in 1999, at that time Eric Tucker
mentioned the starting kick of the 912S engine at that time, I didn't
know they had a 100 HP version and found it interesting. After the
engine workshop I decided to sell my 912 UL and get the new engine, 25%
increase in HP with only a 3 lb weight gain seemed pretty good to me.
I only had 360 hr on engine and found a buyer in our local chapter of
EAA
in Half Moon Bay. Turned out to be my neighbor across the street.
After installing the engine it started up with no problem but as
soon as I set it to idle it would load up, run rough and quit. I would
empty the bowls
and the same thing would happen. I called Kerry at Lockwood and he
thought the fuel pump was putting out too much pressure but before he
sent me
a new one I borrowed the old fuel pump from my other engine and it did
the same thing. I located another person who had a 912 ULS not Kitfox,
he
had the same problem but he said it just went away. I thought there
must be a vibration problem that was transferred to the carbs via the
springs so
I removed them and the problem went away. I made a trip from Half
Moon Bay to Tracy, Ca to see a friend and when I tried to start the
engine, it kicked the
right carb off. I put it back on and it did the same thing, NOT GOOD.
I got a ride back home and waited until traffic cleared and took my
trailer and hauled
the Kitfox home. I ordered new springs for carb, cleaned the socket
area and reinstalled the carbs. Then researched info on 912 engine, and
found that
the pulse from the pickup was 20 degrees wide and on startup the
engine would fire on the trailing edge of pulse which would put the
timing at 6 deg BTDC.
After 1000 RPM's it would jump to 26 deg BTDC. The trick was to get
the engine to that speed so it would run smooth, difficult with a high
compression
engine. My solution was to pull the enrichment cable and crank the
engine on idle for a full 10 seconds and then wait a full minute, open
throttle 1 1/2 turns
on veneer throttle and the engine would start instantly running very
smoothly. Since then I have modified the waiting time, depending on
temp etc but it
works great. Also, on shut down I run engine to 2500 to 3000 RPM's,
turn off ignitions and pull throttle back to idle, this allows the
engine to spool down without
any kick backs etc. I believe that most of the gear wear on the gear
box is during startup and shutdown by the high compression engine.
I believe Rotax recognized this problem and started installing
slipper clutches in all their 912 ULS engines, they also put a new
starter in that would turn the
engine faster on startup to get the engine turning faster.
I had a prop strike at about 700 hours and sent gearbox back to
Lockwood for inspection. Kerry's comment was, "what ever you do with
your engine keep doing it
as we see no wear". My final conclusion is, the 912 ULS has some
issues when new on vibration on idle. Let it run with a higher RPM
until the problem seems to
clear itself. Use a startup that eliminates the retarded timing.
I now have almost 1400 hours on this engine with 0 problems. It
idles very smoothly and with static only adjustments. I usually idle
about 1800 RPM's but it also
runs very smoothly at 1500. No problems on landing and always land
with full idle. I installed this engine in my aircraft in 1999, and I
believe it the first one in a Kitfox.
Clint Bazzill
Cameron Park, Calif
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