---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/05/13: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:44 AM - Re: persistent left roll (dholly) 2. 02:17 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/02/13 () 3. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/02/13 (Lowell Fitt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:23 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: persistent left roll From: "dholly" In a similar forum discussion, John McBean offered this reply: ------------------------------------------ How to Cure a Heavy Wing Re: Trying to correct left roll in cruise flight. You are entering the "Test Pilot" stage. Be sure you are qualified and comfortable with making changes and test flying your aircraft. Knowing that you are not the builder... I would suggest a reset... assume nothing. Check the horizontal stabilizer for correct installation.. Set the wings back to the standard known condition and start from there. Refer to your manual. 1 degree twist and 1 degree dihedral. Check length of the rod end thread. >From that point you can adjust either side.. we will typically decrease the angle of incidence first then increase on the opposite wing if needed. try to make changes equal. For example.. We have a slight left turn.. or a heavy left wing as they say. We have determined that we do not have a yaw issue that is causing the left turn. We adjust the right wing rear lift strut rod end out 1 turn... record our change and pre-flight for a test flight. Decreased Twist (wash-out) Not enough.. so now we'll adjust the left wing rear lift strut rod end in one turn.. record our change and pre-flight for a test flight. Increased Twist (wash-out) Still not enough.. adjust the right wing front lift strut rod end in 1 turn... record our change and pre-flight for a test flight. Decreased Twist (wash-out) Still not enough.. adjust the left wing front lift strut rod end out 1 turn... record our change and pre-flight for a test flight. Increased Twist (wash-out) You may need to make a 1/2 turn or maybe a 1 1/2 turn all depends on the severity of the roll rate... __________________ John McBean www.kitfoxaircraft.com 208.337.5111 -------- -Kitfox III 582 Blue/C Grove Spring / Aerocet 1100 Amphibs -Airdale Avid+ (project) TD / W.I.B. Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395688#395688 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:38 PM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/02/13 I m flying with warp r=drive props for 32 yrs and never heard for drilling props and hubs. Just got off phone with Darryl, 800 833 9357, he wants to hear from you!!! and any body else with a problem. One of the BEST companies to deal with!!! john" snaps "knapp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitfox-List Digest Server" Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:02 AM Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/02/13 > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-03-02&Archive=Kitfox > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-03-02&Archive=Kitfox > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kitfox-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 03/02/13: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:45 AM - Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty! (rtmarshall) > 2. 08:20 AM - Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty! (Lowell Fitt) > 3. 07:41 PM - Warp drive // Scotty!! (rtmarshall) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:45:34 AM PST US > From: "rtmarshall" > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! > > Sacha, I will probably sell the GSC for a very fair price, contact me > off list, I am going to be gone for a few days and will be out of touch. > Bob > rtav8or2@psln.com > Toodie & Bob Marshall > Beckwourth, CA > KF/4/1200 flying > From: Sacha > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! > > > That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics > (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it? > > > I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp > or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second > hand one if anyone has one they want to sell? > > > Sacha > > On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" wrote: > > > Toodie and bob, > My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23=C2=B0. My > climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly > early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but > I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good. > Lowell > > > From: Richard Weiss > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! > > > Toodie and Bob, > > > I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the > engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's > very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff > is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach. > > > Rick Weiss > Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-) > Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View > Spruce Creek Fly In, FL > MDKitfox@aol.com > > On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote: > > > Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a > segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. > As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am > thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group > think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue > Skies. > > Toodie & Bob Marshall > Beckwourth, CA > KF/4/1200 flying > > > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"'>http://www.ma > tronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c > om/contribution > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > > > ======== > tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ======== > cs.com > ======== > matronics.com/contribution > ======== > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:20:16 AM PST US > From: "Lowell Fitt" > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! > > Sacha, > Most of my numbers are very preliminary. And after flying the actual > test phases, it was mostly to put the required 40 hours on it and I > throttled back because distance was not as important as time and I > didn't want to burn more gas than was necessary. So numbers are not > finalized. > > I was getting about 100 mph at 5000 RPM. During the test phase in > probably 85-90 degree days, climb was very close to 1000 fpm. The 1300 > I mentioned was at a temp in the high 50s to low 60s. As I do the > longer cross country flights fuel burn will be more apparent. I chose > the 68" prop because that is what was recommended by the guys I knew > that have been running the Warp prop. > > One issue I did have with the Warp Prop is that one blade would change > pitch one degree after running for a short while. I would re-pitch it > and it would change the one degree again. I contacted Warp and this is > there explanation. The aluminum collar is placed in the mold and the > resin and fabric are the inserted and cured under pressure. > Occasionally the resin will shrink away from the aluminum collar. He > explained that is the reason for the holes drilled through the collar at > 180=C2=B0. The resin is supposed to run into the holes and act as a > pinning mechanism. Apparently this was not working on my prop and he > suggested I pin with aluminum pins. > > I drilled two 3/16" holes through the collar and into the hub about 3/8" > deep. and about an inch from the hub end. I cut two pins of 3/16" > aluminum and glued them in the holes with a structural adhesive. I > have to say here that this is what I did as I forgot to ask him for the > factory recommended procedure. If anyone else is having this problem, I > would suggest calling for the exact recommendations. > Lowell > > > From: Sacha > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! > > > That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics > (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it? > > > I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp > or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second > hand one if anyone has one they want to sell? > > > Sacha > > On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" wrote: > > > Toodie and bob, > My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23=C2=B0. My > climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly > early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but > I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good. > Lowell > > > From: Richard Weiss > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! > > > Toodie and Bob, > > > I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the > engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's > very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff > is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach. > > > Rick Weiss > Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-) > Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View > Spruce Creek Fly In, FL > MDKitfox@aol.com > > On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote: > > > Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a > segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. > As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am > thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group > think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue > Skies. > > Toodie & Bob Marshall > Beckwourth, CA > KF/4/1200 flying > > > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"'>http://www.ma > tronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c > om/contribution > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D============== > 3D > > > ======== > tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ======== > cs.com > ======== > matronics.com/contribution > ======== > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:41:51 PM PST US > From: "rtmarshall" > Subject: Kitfox-List: Warp drive // Scotty!! > > Hi all, Roger, Richard, Lowell and others who responded to my > request for info on the initial pitch setting on the warp drive prop, I > flew the ship with the other wood prop and obtained some preliminary > numbers, but as all things go I was unable to fly today with the warp > drive due to very gusty Xwinds and very unstable air mass over us, up > here in the sierras, maybe in the early hrs tomorrow before the front > gets here, I am trying to get as close as possible to the same > conditions for a fair comparison between the two props. Thanks again. > > Toodie & Bob Marshall > Beckwourth, CA > KF/4/1200 flying > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:19 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/02/13 Thanks John, for the note and for checking up on the subject. I will call tomorrow. I flew 900 hours with my old Warp Prop, but this one would not hold pitch on one blade - only 40 hours. It was the one with the decal on it so it was easy to find. I got the pinning advice from the factory - don't recall who I talked to. Lowell -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:15 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/02/13 > > I m flying with warp r=drive props for 32 yrs and never heard for drilling > props and hubs. > Just got off phone with Darryl, 800 833 9357, he wants to hear from you!!! > and any body else with a problem. > One of the BEST companies to deal with!!! > john" snaps "knapp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitfox-List Digest Server" > To: "Kitfox-List Digest List" > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:02 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 03/02/13 > > >> * >> >> ================================================= >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ================================================= >> >> Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-03-02&Archive=Kitfox >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-03-02&Archive=Kitfox >> >> >> =============================================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> =============================================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Kitfox-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Sat 03/02/13: 3 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> 1. 07:45 AM - Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty! (rtmarshall) >> 2. 08:20 AM - Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty! (Lowell Fitt) >> 3. 07:41 PM - Warp drive // Scotty!! (rtmarshall) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 1 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 07:45:34 AM PST US >> From: "rtmarshall" >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! >> >> Sacha, I will probably sell the GSC for a very fair price, contact me >> off list, I am going to be gone for a few days and will be out of touch. >> Bob >> rtav8or2@psln.com >> Toodie & Bob Marshall >> Beckwourth, CA >> KF/4/1200 flying >> From: Sacha >> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! >> >> >> That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics >> (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it? >> >> >> I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp >> or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second >> hand one if anyone has one they want to sell? >> >> >> Sacha >> >> On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" wrote: >> >> >> Toodie and bob, >> My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23=C2=B0. My >> climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly >> early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but >> I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good. >> Lowell >> >> >> From: Richard Weiss >> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! >> >> >> Toodie and Bob, >> >> >> I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the >> engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's >> very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff >> is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach. >> >> >> Rick Weiss >> Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-) >> Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View >> Spruce Creek Fly In, FL >> MDKitfox@aol.com >> >> On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote: >> >> >> Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a >> segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. >> As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am >> thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group >> think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue >> Skies. >> >> Toodie & Bob Marshall >> Beckwourth, CA >> KF/4/1200 flying >> >> >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"'>http://www.ma >> tronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c >> om/contribution >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> >> >> ======== >> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ======== >> cs.com >> ======== >> matronics.com/contribution >> ======== >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 08:20:16 AM PST US >> From: "Lowell Fitt" >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! >> >> Sacha, >> Most of my numbers are very preliminary. And after flying the actual >> test phases, it was mostly to put the required 40 hours on it and I >> throttled back because distance was not as important as time and I >> didn't want to burn more gas than was necessary. So numbers are not >> finalized. >> >> I was getting about 100 mph at 5000 RPM. During the test phase in >> probably 85-90 degree days, climb was very close to 1000 fpm. The 1300 >> I mentioned was at a temp in the high 50s to low 60s. As I do the >> longer cross country flights fuel burn will be more apparent. I chose >> the 68" prop because that is what was recommended by the guys I knew >> that have been running the Warp prop. >> >> One issue I did have with the Warp Prop is that one blade would change >> pitch one degree after running for a short while. I would re-pitch it >> and it would change the one degree again. I contacted Warp and this is >> there explanation. The aluminum collar is placed in the mold and the >> resin and fabric are the inserted and cured under pressure. >> Occasionally the resin will shrink away from the aluminum collar. He >> explained that is the reason for the holes drilled through the collar at >> 180=C2=B0. The resin is supposed to run into the holes and act as a >> pinning mechanism. Apparently this was not working on my prop and he >> suggested I pin with aluminum pins. >> >> I drilled two 3/16" holes through the collar and into the hub about 3/8" >> deep. and about an inch from the hub end. I cut two pins of 3/16" >> aluminum and glued them in the holes with a structural adhesive. I >> have to say here that this is what I did as I forgot to ask him for the >> factory recommended procedure. If anyone else is having this problem, I >> would suggest calling for the exact recommendations. >> Lowell >> >> >> From: Sacha >> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! >> >> >> That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics >> (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it? >> >> >> I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp >> or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second >> hand one if anyone has one they want to sell? >> >> >> Sacha >> >> On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" wrote: >> >> >> Toodie and bob, >> My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23=C2=B0. My >> climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly >> early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but >> I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good. >> Lowell >> >> >> From: Richard Weiss >> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty! >> >> >> Toodie and Bob, >> >> >> I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the >> engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's >> very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff >> is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach. >> >> >> Rick Weiss >> Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-) >> Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View >> Spruce Creek Fly In, FL >> MDKitfox@aol.com >> >> On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote: >> >> >> Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a >> segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. >> As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am >> thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group >> think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue >> Skies. >> >> Toodie & Bob Marshall >> Beckwourth, CA >> KF/4/1200 flying >> >> >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"'>http://www.ma >> tronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c >> om/contribution >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D============== >> 3D >> >> >> ======== >> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ======== >> cs.com >> ======== >> matronics.com/contribution >> ======== >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 3 >> _____________________________________ >> >> >> Time: 07:41:51 PM PST US >> From: "rtmarshall" >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Warp drive // Scotty!! >> >> Hi all, Roger, Richard, Lowell and others who responded to my >> request for info on the initial pitch setting on the warp drive prop, I >> flew the ship with the other wood prop and obtained some preliminary >> numbers, but as all things go I was unable to fly today with the warp >> drive due to very gusty Xwinds and very unstable air mass over us, up >> here in the sierras, maybe in the early hrs tomorrow before the front >> gets here, I am trying to get as close as possible to the same >> conditions for a fair comparison between the two props. Thanks again. >> >> Toodie & Bob Marshall >> Beckwourth, CA >> KF/4/1200 flying >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.