Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:11 AM - Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV (Sacha)
2. 02:30 AM - Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV (Dave)
3. 05:29 AM - Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV (Sacha)
4. 07:55 PM - Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV (Tom Jones)
5. 08:07 PM - Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV (Tom Jones)
6. 09:28 PM - Re: Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV (Sacha)
7. 09:47 PM - Re: Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV (Sacha)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV |
Dave/Jared
Thanks for your comments.
I have now clocked up all of 4 hours solo on the Kitfox and there are no oth
er kit foxes locally so I'm kind of learning on my own.
I've taken off with no flaps, 10deg and 20deg and have landed also with tho
se configurations. Everything works fine.
But when I put 30deg flaps (I tried this up at altitude yesterday), the plan
e starts banking left and I almost need full right stick to keep it S&L. I d
idn't try this for very long as I'm still not very confident in the plane, b
ut this doesn't feel normal to me. Does anyone have any suggestions for how
this might be corrected? I don't really want to limit flap travel to 20deg
if I can avoid doing so.
Dave:
I mostly fly from grass strips on wheels. Can you explain how 30-35deg flaps
can come in handy for takeoffs? (What situations, what techniques to use). J
ust trying to learn more about the machine. (I'd love to try floats but it s
eems like installing a pair is a lot of work, and also I think the life of t
he aircraft would seriously be shortened by all that salt water....)
Sacha
On Jun 9, 2013, at 11:58, "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
> Sacha,
>
> Flaps past 20 degrees for landing are uesless.
>
> Full flaps 30 to 35 degrees are VERY usefull while taking off !
> The real beneifit is to be found from sticky mud, long grass, sand, and wa
ter while on wheels
> on Skis -- heavy Wet Snow
>
> On floats -- a real necessity -glassy water take offs --will pop you ri
ght off the water
> all the above - lifting one side up first and pulling the flaps for full d
eployment.
> Mind you alot have limited the flap travel and for most of you that are pa
vement pounders
> and do not explore the entire envelope of what your plane could actually d
o it will be jusdt fine.
>
> for the rest - 30 to 35 degree down travel a riot.........
>
>
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
>
> http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
>
> Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
> Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
> Most popular on youtube
> Highest rated on youtube
>
> New Site - Kitfox related
> Will be building soon
> http://www.kitfoxflyer.com/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sacha
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 1:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
>
> Thanks for that Lowell - I thought I had installed something wrong. Works
fine with just 2 notches of flaps! I was trying full flaps with (only a li
ttle) crosswind but it was definitely not easy to control=81c now I know!
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Wednesday, 05 June, 2013 22:13
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronh
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV |
flaps on take off
If you new to flying -limit your self to 20 degrees.
Take offs with 30 + degrees
zero ot 20 degrees on roll and pulling the last bit as you are real to
pop off the sticky surface.
You only want to do this to break ground .......
once airboure - hold nose down and bleeds off flaps to 20 degree- now
you got less drag and roll control.
Enjoy.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Sacha
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
Dave/Jared
Thanks for your comments.
I have now clocked up all of 4 hours solo on the Kitfox and there are
no other kit foxes locally so I'm kind of learning on my own.
I've taken off with no flaps, 10deg and 20deg and have landed also
with those configurations. Everything works fine.
But when I put 30deg flaps (I tried this up at altitude yesterday),
the plane starts banking left and I almost need full right stick to keep
it S&L. I didn't try this for very long as I'm still not very confident
in the plane, but this doesn't feel normal to me. Does anyone have any
suggestions for how this might be corrected? I don't really want to
limit flap travel to 20deg if I can avoid doing so.
Dave:
I mostly fly from grass strips on wheels. Can you explain how 30-35deg
flaps can come in handy for takeoffs? (What situations, what techniques
to use). Just trying to learn more about the machine. (I'd love to try
floats but it seems like installing a pair is a lot of work, and also I
think the life of the aircraft would seriously be shortened by all that
salt water....)
Sacha
On Jun 9, 2013, at 11:58, "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
Sacha,
Flaps past 20 degrees for landing are uesless.
Full flaps 30 to 35 degrees are VERY usefull while taking off !
The real beneifit is to be found from sticky mud, long grass, sand,
and water while on wheels
on Skis -- heavy Wet Snow
On floats -- a real necessity -glassy water take offs --will pop
you right off the water
all the above - lifting one side up first and pulling the flaps for
full deployment.
Mind you alot have limited the flap travel and for most of you that
are pavement pounders
and do not explore the entire envelope of what your plane could
actually do it will be jusdt fine.
for the rest - 30 to 35 degree down travel a riot.........
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from
the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube
New Site - Kitfox related
Will be building soon
http://www.kitfoxflyer.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: Sacha
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 1:16 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
Thanks for that Lowell - I thought I had installed something
wrong. Works fine with just 2 notches of flaps! I was trying full
flaps with (only a little) crosswind but it was definitely not easy to
control now I know!
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, 05 June, 2013 22:13
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=========
tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
=========
cs.com
=========
matronics.com/contribution
=========
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV |
Thanks Dave. Not completely new to flying (i have a PPL and about 80hrs) bu
t still consider myself very green and definitely new to the Kitfox. It's a l
ittle more "lively" than a PA28 or a C172! I personally love it... But i'll
take your advice and wait until i've clocked up a bunch of hours to get com
fortable before I start experimenting with usual flap configurations.
In the meantime, do you have an opinion regarding my question as to whether a
pronounced left roll with full flaps is normal or something in the controls
which I should investigate and try to correct...
On Jun 10, 2013, at 11:30, "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
> flaps on take off
> If you new to flying -limit your self to 20 degrees.
>
> Take offs with 30 + degrees
> zero ot 20 degrees on roll and pulling the last bit as you are real to pop
off the sticky surface.
> You only want to do this to break ground .......
> once airboure - hold nose down and bleeds off flaps to 20 degree- now you
got less drag and roll control.
>
> Enjoy.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sacha
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 4:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
>
> Dave/Jared
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> I have now clocked up all of 4 hours solo on the Kitfox and there are no o
ther kit foxes locally so I'm kind of learning on my own.
>
> I've taken off with no flaps, 10deg and 20deg and have landed also with t
hose configurations. Everything works fine.
> But when I put 30deg flaps (I tried this up at altitude yesterday), the pl
ane starts banking left and I almost need full right stick to keep it S&L. I
didn't try this for very long as I'm still not very confident in the plane,
but this doesn't feel normal to me. Does anyone have any suggestions for h
ow this might be corrected? I don't really want to limit flap travel to 20d
eg if I can avoid doing so.
>
> Dave:
> I mostly fly from grass strips on wheels. Can you explain how 30-35deg fla
ps can come in handy for takeoffs? (What situations, what techniques to use)
. Just trying to learn more about the machine. (I'd love to try floats but i
t seems like installing a pair is a lot of work, and also I think the life o
f the aircraft would seriously be shortened by all that salt water....)
>
> Sacha
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2013, at 11:58, "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>
>> Sacha,
>>
>> Flaps past 20 degrees for landing are uesless.
>>
>> Full flaps 30 to 35 degrees are VERY usefull while taking off !
>> The real beneifit is to be found from sticky mud, long grass, sand, and w
ater while on wheels
>> on Skis -- heavy Wet Snow
>>
>> On floats -- a real necessity -glassy water take offs --will pop you r
ight off the water
>> all the above - lifting one side up first and pulling the flaps for full d
eployment.
>> Mind you alot have limited the flap travel and for most of you that are p
avement pounders
>> and do not explore the entire envelope of what your plane could actually d
o it will be jusdt fine.
>>
>> for the rest - 30 to 35 degree down travel a riot.........
>>
>>
>> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
>>
>> Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
>> Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
>> Most popular on youtube
>> Highest rated on youtube
>>
>> New Site - Kitfox related
>> Will be building soon
>> http://www.kitfoxflyer.com/
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sacha
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 1:16 AM
>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
>>
>> Thanks for that Lowell - I thought I had installed something wrong. Work
s fine with just 2 notches of flaps! I was trying full flaps with (only a l
ittle) crosswind but it was definitely not easy to control=81c now I know!
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-se
rver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, 05 June, 2013 22:13
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flap angles, Kitfox IV
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>> =========
>> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> =========
>> cs.com
>> =========
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> =========
>>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronh
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV |
Sacha, do you have the "Assembly manual for your Kitfox? You need it to check
the rigging on your control system. The flaperons will neutralize themselves
in flight. If pulling on flaps causes the plane to roll there is a problem in
the rigging.
Due to the design of the differential flaperon control syatem there are different
angles built into the flaperon horns in relation to the flaperons. left is
5 degrees and right is 19.4 degrees.
As said in others posts..pulling on full flaps limits roll control. I suspect
your problem is the someone rigged your flaperons with the same angles and causes
the limit in roll control to be all on one side.
The model 4 did not have "Notches" for the flaps if yours does that is someones
own design.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402448#402448
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV |
To get an idea if rigging is out of wack, try this.
Sitting in the ground hold the stick full left and slowly raise the flap handle
until you feel the stick start to move to the right. Mark the location of the
flap handle when this resistance is felt. Now hold stick full right and pull
the flap handle until you fell the stick start to move left.
The position of the flap handle when resistance in the stick is felt in each test
should be the same. This is the flap position where roll control starts to
be limited by too much flaps. Like I said above. I think yours may be all on
one side.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402449#402449
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV |
Tom,
Thanks a lot for the useful info.
No I have no manual; I was told it's a Kitfox IV but I don't really have any way
of verifying that.
I've emailed Kitfox a few times saying i'd like to purchase a manual but i've had
no reply yet. I'll keep on trying...
Regards
Sacha
On Jun 11, 2013, at 4:54, "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>
> Sacha, do you have the "Assembly manual for your Kitfox? You need it to check
the rigging on your control system. The flaperons will neutralize themselves
in flight. If pulling on flaps causes the plane to roll there is a problem
in the rigging.
>
> Due to the design of the differential flaperon control syatem there are different
angles built into the flaperon horns in relation to the flaperons. left
is 5 degrees and right is 19.4 degrees.
>
> As said in others posts..pulling on full flaps limits roll control. I suspect
your problem is the someone rigged your flaperons with the same angles and causes
the limit in roll control to be all on one side.
>
> The model 4 did not have "Notches" for the flaps if yours does that is someones
own design.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402448#402448
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flap angles, Kitfox IV |
Thanks again Tom!
I'm away from the aircraft for a week but I'll try this when I'm back and report
my findings.
Sacha
On Jun 11, 2013, at 5:07, "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>
> To get an idea if rigging is out of wack, try this.
>
> Sitting in the ground hold the stick full left and slowly raise the flap handle
until you feel the stick start to move to the right. Mark the location of
the flap handle when this resistance is felt. Now hold stick full right and pull
the flap handle until you fell the stick start to move left.
>
> The position of the flap handle when resistance in the stick is felt in each
test should be the same. This is the flap position where roll control starts
to be limited by too much flaps. Like I said above. I think yours may be all
on one side.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402449#402449
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|