---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/30/14: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:29 AM - Re: Re: 582 static rpm (Dave) 2. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: 582 static rpm (Patrick Reilly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:54 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 static rpm Set your RPM for 6000 to 6200 static. on large props like 72" possibly up to 6400 with stock pipe - this is a few HP loss due to shorter length - not a big deal on a kitfox. @ 5500 static is too low RPM you about 80% max power so about 50 to 55 HP Cheers ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Reilly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 static rpm Mike, Thanks for the quick reply and info. I took the Kitfox out today with 12 1/2 decrees of pitch on the Warp Drive prop. Same setting as yesterday with 5500rpm static (plane tied down). All I could get on a full throttle take off taxi was 4800rpm. Needless to say I didn't takeoff. I'm frustrated now with these different results 2 days in a row with identical prop setting. Plugs look good with rear plugs slightly blacker than front cyl. Guess I'll do a compression check next. I think it has to be carb related problem. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuilt Rockford, IL On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:13 AM, mikeperkins wrote: Hi Pat, Jared and I talked the other day offline. I mentioned my 532 static RPM was about 5800. But what I was shooting for was a Vx climb of 6600 RPM. When I finally got that, my static speed was 5800 RPM. But when I had a new crankshaft installed, along with the necessary seals and re-timed, I was getting only 4200 or so. The certified rebuilder's recommendation was to reduce the pitch because I had a "new" engine. I thought he was crazy because I was already convinced he'd screwed something up. But in fact by taking some pitch off the prop, I got back to about 6000 static. I'm also getting 6800 RPM on a Vx climb instead of 6600. So I probably need to add back in about 1/4 degree to get back 6600 again. But my overall performance numbers are close to what they were before the rebuild, so I'm not worried that I lost horsepower when it was rebuilt. Rather, the torque/RPM curve probably just moved somewhat. The one thing I've used as a rule is to not run my engine at high power until the coolant temp stabilizes. I don't exceed 3000 RPM until it does. The cylinder bores on the Rotax 2-strokes are round but the pistons are cam-ground, eccentric by about .010". That compensates for the cylinders' uneven expansion when everything heats up to operating temp. But at lower temperatures, the piston/cylinder clearances are not correct, and that often leads to scored pistons, which eventually leads to cold seizures. Following that rule has been pretty good for my engine; the pistons and cylinders are still looking good after 385 hours. I get the feeling that the big oil debate comes down to something else - full warm-ups prior to full power, getting the prop load matched to the engine, and watching the EGTs. (What I mean by matching the prop load to the engine is to get max RPM at max throttle in a Vx or Vy climb, your choice.) It's still possible in my airplane to exceed the 1200 degree EGT limit. I find that if I'm in a cruise descent with low power, say 30 percent, my EGTs soar. When I see that, I pull up to load the engine again and add a little power. Nothing brings the EGTs down quicker than that. It screws up my descent profile, but it helps the engine. The max RPM for a 582 is listed as 6800 (for 5 minutes), whereas my 532 is 6600. So your numbers will be different than mine. But I think the principles are the same. Good seeing you here again, Pat. Hope things are well with you. -------- Mike Perkins Havana, Illinois Model I, 532, B gearbox, GSC prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423969#423969 ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ========== MS - k">http://forums.matronics.com ========== e - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 static rpm From: Patrick Reilly Dave, Thanks for info. Great to hear from you. Wish this site was what it was 5 years ago. I'd still be trying to build my plane without some of the previous posters. Pat Reilly On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Dave wrote: > Set your RPM for 6000 to 6200 static. on large props like 72" possibly > up to 6400 > with stock pipe - this is a few HP loss due to shorter length - not a big > deal on a kitfox. > > @ 5500 static is too low RPM you about 80% max power so about 50 to 55 H P > > > Cheers > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Patrick Reilly > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:25 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 static rpm > > Mike, Thanks for the quick reply and info. I took the Kitfox out today > with 12 1/2 decrees of pitch on the Warp Drive prop. Same setting as > yesterday with 5500rpm static (plane tied down). All I could get on a ful l > throttle take off taxi was 4800rpm. Needless to say I didn't takeoff. I'm > frustrated now with these different results 2 days in a row with identica l > prop setting. Plugs look good with rear plugs slightly blacker than front > cyl. Guess I'll do a compression check next. I think it has to be carb > related problem. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuilt > Rockford, IL > > > On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:13 AM, mikeperkins > wrote: > >> >> Hi Pat, >> >> Jared and I talked the other day offline. I mentioned my 532 static RPM >> was about 5800. But what I was shooting for was a Vx climb of 6600 RPM. >> When I finally got that, my static speed was 5800 RPM. But when I had a new >> crankshaft installed, along with the necessary seals and re-timed, I was >> getting only 4200 or so. The certified rebuilder's recommendation was to >> reduce the pitch because I had a "new" engine. I thought he was crazy >> because I was already convinced he'd screwed something up. But in fact b y >> taking some pitch off the prop, I got back to about 6000 static. I'm als o >> getting 6800 RPM on a Vx climb instead of 6600. So I probably need to ad d >> back in about 1/4 degree to get back 6600 again. But my overall performa nce >> numbers are close to what they were before the rebuild, so I'm not worri ed >> that I lost horsepower when it was rebuilt. Rather, the torque/RPM curve >> probably just moved somewhat. >> >> The one thing I've used as a rule is to not run my engine at high power >> until the coolant temp stabilizes. I don't exceed 3000 RPM until it does .. >> The cylinder bores on the Rotax 2-strokes are round but the pistons are >> cam-ground, eccentric by about .010". That compensates for the cylinders ' >> uneven expansion when everything heats up to operating temp. But at lowe r >> temperatures, the piston/cylinder clearances are not correct, and that >> often leads to scored pistons, which eventually leads to cold seizures. >> Following that rule has been pretty good for my engine; the pistons and >> cylinders are still looking good after 385 hours. I get the feeling that >> the big oil debate comes down to something else - full warm-ups prior to >> full power, getting the prop load matched to the engine, and watching th e >> EGTs. (What I mean by matching the prop load to the engine is to get max >> RPM at max throttle in a Vx or Vy climb, your choice.) >> >> It's still possible in my airplane to exceed the 1200 degree EGT limit. I >> find that if I'm in a cruise descent with low power, say 30 percent, my >> EGTs soar. When I see that, I pull up to load the engine again and add a >> little power. Nothing brings the EGTs down quicker than that. It screws up >> my descent profile, but it helps the engine. >> >> The max RPM for a 582 is listed as 6800 (for 5 minutes), whereas my 532 >> is 6600. So your numbers will be different than mine. But I think the >> principles are the same. >> >> Good seeing you here again, Pat. Hope things are well with you. >> >> -------- >> Mike Perkins >> Havana, Illinois >> Model I, 532, B gearbox, GSC prop >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423969#423969 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> ========== >> MS - >> k">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> e - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford,IL > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ">http://www.matronhref ="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://for ums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > =========== tronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford,IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.