---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/01/14: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:08 AM - Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting (Johannes Czernin) 2. 01:12 AM - Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting (Johannes Czernin) 3. 03:03 AM - Re: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting (Sacha) 4. 06:37 AM - Re: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting (MDKitfox) 5. 08:32 AM - AW: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting (Johannes Czernin) 6. 11:50 AM - Re: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting (MDKitfox) 7. 11:01 PM - Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 8. 11:05 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:41 AM PST US From: "Johannes Czernin" Subject: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting -- Repeated posting - due to indicated system error -- Hi, Ron, Great to get a lightning-speed reply from one of the real old-timers here on the List! Thanks a lot for that link - yes, it is exactly the story the big bad men at EAA wouldn't let me read! In fact, in terms of historical interest and tracing the life line of that engine that article is really a gem. I am enclosing the only picture I have of Denney's original installation, reproduced from the "10-years-Jubilee" edition of "Kitfox Times" published in 1994. The design differences between the two are enormous: Version 1 (the one shown in the photos accompanying the "Sport Aviaton" article and displayed at EAA Ultralight in 1984) seems to be the original Pond design. It apparently had a separate camshaft for each of the cylinders. Version 2 however (fitted to the first Kitfox the same year!) corresponds to what was patented in 1992. It displays a total redesign with different housings, cylinders and heads, plus a new valve train with just two single cams, one for all the inlet valves, another for all outlet valves. I'm sure at least some List members might be interested in these historical details so I'm adding a few more bits from my recent discoveries. Bill Sadler, the designer of the Vampire twin-tailed Ultralight, bought the rights to the Pond engine, did the redesign, applied for patent in 1990 and had the patent issued in 1992 - see here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d= PALL&p=1 &u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5150670.PN.& OS=PN/5150670 &RS=PN/5150670 In 1997 the project was for sale once again: http://www.all-aero.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id= 9535:sa dler-radial-r1765u&catid=64 ... and after some more years of lumbering along the baby reappeared at Oshkosh 2012, presented by the man who moved the entire project to China: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wzEp3dokx4k Finally, if you can read Russian (no, I can't, but I'm on good terms with Google Translator!) here's some more info, including the latest photos plus some details about what seems to be preparations for actual production in China: http://www.reaa.ru/cgi-bin/yabbA/YaBB.pl?num=1298623014/all (and I was totally surprised to find out AOPA does indeed have a branch in Russia!) Whover may read this - please don't hesitate to tell me if you liked it! Kind regards, Johannes -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ron L Gesendet: Samstag, 27. September 2014 18:32 An: kitfox-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history Johannes, Go here: http://spirit.eaa.org/apps/magazines/eaa_issues/magazine_198409.pdf Scroll to page 16. Enjoy, N55KF -----Original Message----- From: Johannes Czernin Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:23 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history Recently I showed to a friend a photo of the 'Fox I built 20 years ago. The first thing he noticed was the round cowling and immediately he asked me whether my airplane had a radial engine. I told him about Dan Denney's original idea that he had to abandon due to inavailibility of the Pong Dragon engine, but then I realized it was time for me to delve a little in archives and the Internet to refresh my own memory. I now have amassed in my hands quite a bit of interesting info, both truly historical as well as more recent. However, one item that looks like it could be a real gem seems to be out of reach for me. The website for the "Experimenter" magazine has this link http://www.eaa.ca/experimenter/issues/1104.html and here they list an article that was published in "Sport Aviation" in 1984. Unfortunately however you have to be an EAA member in order to access their archives and as I am not I am blocked from seeing the story. I wonder if any of you guys who holds membership in the EAA could help me by downloading that story and sending it to me via E-Mail? Thanks a lot in advance, Kind regards, Johannes List 7-Day ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:23 AM PST US From: "Johannes Czernin" Subject: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting -- Repeated posting - due to indicated system error -- Hi, Ron, Great to get a lightning-speed reply from one of the real old-timers here on the List! Thanks a lot for that link - yes, it is exactly the story the big bad men at EAA wouldn't let me read! In fact, in terms of historical interest and tracing the life line of that engine that article is really a gem. I am enclosing the only picture I have of Denney's original installation, reproduced from the "10-years-Jubilee" edition of "Kitfox Times" published in 1994. The design differences between the two are enormous: Version 1 (the one shown in the photos accompanying the "Sport Aviaton" article and displayed at EAA Ultralight in 1984) seems to be the original Pond design. It apparently had a separate camshaft for each of the cylinders. Version 2 however (fitted to the first Kitfox the same year!) corresponds to what was patented in 1992. It displays a total redesign with different housings, cylinders and heads, plus a new valve train with just two single cams, one for all the inlet valves, another for all outlet valves. I'm sure at least some List members might be interested in these historical details so I'm adding a few more bits from my recent discoveries. Bill Sadler, the designer of the Vampire twin-tailed Ultralight, bought the rights to the Pond engine, did the redesign, applied for patent in 1990 and had the patent issued in 1992 - see here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d= PALL&p=1 &u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5150670.PN.& OS=PN/5150670 &RS=PN/5150670 In 1997 the project was for sale once again: http://www.all-aero.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id= 9535:sa dler-radial-r1765u&catid=64 ... and after some more years of lumbering along the baby reappeared at Oshkosh 2012, presented by the man who moved the entire project to China: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wzEp3dokx4k Finally, if you can read Russian (no, I can't, but I'm on good terms with Google Translator!) here's some more info, including the latest photos plus some details about what seems to be preparations for actual production in China: http://www.reaa.ru/cgi-bin/yabbA/YaBB.pl?num=1298623014/all (and I was totally surprised to find out AOPA does indeed have a branch in Russia!) Whover may read this - please don't hesitate to tell me if you liked it! Kind regards, Johannes -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Ron L Gesendet: Samstag, 27. September 2014 18:32 An: kitfox-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history Johannes, Go here: http://spirit.eaa.org/apps/magazines/eaa_issues/magazine_198409.pdf Scroll to page 16. Enjoy, N55KF -----Original Message----- From: Johannes Czernin Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:23 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history Recently I showed to a friend a photo of the 'Fox I built 20 years ago. The first thing he noticed was the round cowling and immediately he asked me whether my airplane had a radial engine. I told him about Dan Denney's original idea that he had to abandon due to inavailibility of the Pong Dragon engine, but then I realized it was time for me to delve a little in archives and the Internet to refresh my own memory. I now have amassed in my hands quite a bit of interesting info, both truly historical as well as more recent. However, one item that looks like it could be a real gem seems to be out of reach for me. The website for the "Experimenter" magazine has this link http://www.eaa.ca/experimenter/issues/1104.html and here they list an article that was published in "Sport Aviation" in 1984. Unfortunately however you have to be an EAA member in order to access their archives and as I am not I am blocked from seeing the story. I wonder if any of you guys who holds membership in the EAA could help me by downloading that story and sending it to me via E-Mail? Thanks a lot in advance, Kind regards, Johannes List 7-Day ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:00 AM PST US From: "Sacha" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting Johannes, Thanks a lot for posting this nice piece of history! Regards, sacha ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:07 AM PST US From: MDKitfox Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting Johannes, It=92s great to see you back on the list and researching the history of Denny=92s work. It=92s certainly interesting. My only comment, and this is as a long time Kitfox owner, List friend and EAA Member dating back to nearly the beginning and also as the current Chairman of the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council, and member of the EAA Board Directors. I think it=92s great that the history provided on the EAA website provides the ability for many of us to do the research we enjoy. This is all made possible by the dues the members pay as well as the sponsors at AirVenture/Oshkosh. Without them there wouldn=92t be a website - or EAA. It=92s not a public website, it=92s for the dues paying members. It hurts that we would be thought of as the bad men at EAA for allowing only our dues paying members access to their funded resources. If everyone had free access to all that EAA offered, why would anyone pay dues? Eventually EAA would be forced to shutdown for lack of funding and then no one would have the resources you and I and others find so valuable. I=92m sorry if this comes across as harsh as I certainly don=92t mean to offend anyone, but being referred to as the badmen at EAA just struck me as off target. I would like to personally invite you to join EAA and then you would have unfettered access to all we have to offer. Your writings could possibly be included in the Experimenter or Sport Aviation so all EAA members could appreciate the fine work you=92re doing. Regards, Rick Weiss Series V Speedster, 912ULS and Dynon Skyview equipped - and loving it Port Orange, FL On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:55 AM, Johannes Czernin wrote: > Great to get a lightning-speed reply from one of the real old-timers here on > the List! Thanks a lot for that link - yes, it is exactly the story the big > bad men at EAA wouldn't let me read! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:28 AM PST US From: "Johannes Czernin" Subject: AW: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting Hi, Rick, As I said it's good to hear again from old friends and so please accept my sincerest apologies for having hurt your feelings. My remark about "... the bad men at EAA..." was meant purely in a joking spirit. In fact I was a member of EAA for many years but I canceled my membership after I had stopped flying. I still have my old membership card but I thought it silly to try to "break the doors" by using it.... though I'm sure the EAA's computer system would have blocked me anyway. Admonish me for having given up my membership years ago and you'd be right! :-) Best wishes, Johannes _____ Von: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von MDKitfox Gesendet: Mittwoch, 01. Oktober 2014 15:36 An: Kitfox List Betreff: Re: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting Johannes, It's great to see you back on the list and researching the history of Denny's work. It's certainly interesting. My only comment, and this is as a long time Kitfox owner, List friend and EAA Member dating back to nearly the beginning and also as the current Chairman of the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council, and member of the EAA Board Directors. I think it's great that the history provided on the EAA website provides the ability for many of us to do the research we enjoy. This is all made possible by the dues the members pay as well as the sponsors at AirVenture/Oshkosh. Without them there wouldn't be a website - or EAA. It's not a public website, it's for the dues paying members. It hurts that we would be thought of as the bad men at EAA for allowing only our dues paying members access to their funded resources. If everyone had free access to all that EAA offered, why would anyone pay dues? Eventually EAA would be forced to shutdown for lack of funding and then no one would have the resources you and I and others find so valuable. I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh as I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, but being referred to as the badmen at EAA just struck me as off target. I would like to personally invite you to join EAA and then you would have unfettered access to all we have to offer. Your writings could possibly be included in the Experimenter or Sport Aviation so all EAA members could appreciate the fine work you're doing. Regards, Rick Weiss Series V Speedster, 912ULS and Dynon Skyview equipped - and loving it Port Orange, FL On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:55 AM, Johannes Czernin wrote: Great to get a lightning-speed reply from one of the real old-timers here on the List! Thanks a lot for that link - yes, it is exactly the story the big bad men at EAA wouldn't let me read! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:52 AM PST US From: MDKitfox Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting Hey Johannes, No admonishment necessary, just wish you could be part of the EAA family again. There are other things to do in EAA other than flying; reading, researching, and writing being a few of the most fun. You should give it a try for a year and see how it works out for you. We=92d love to have you back, but if not, it=92s nice to see your listings on the Kitfox list again. Cheers, Rick On Oct 1, 2014, at 11:31 AM, Johannes Czernin wrote: > Hi, Rick, > > As I said it's good to hear again from old friends and so please accept my sincerest apologies for having hurt your feelings. My remark about "... the bad men at EAA..." was meant purely in a joking spirit. In fact I was a member of EAA for many years but I canceled my membership after I had stopped flying. I still have my old membership card but I thought it silly to try to "break the doors" by using it.... though I'm sure the EAA's computer system would have blocked me anyway. > > Admonish me for having given up my membership years ago and you'd be right! :-) > > Best wishes, > > Johannes > > Von: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von MDKitfox > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 01. Oktober 2014 15:36 > An: Kitfox List > Betreff: Re: Kitfox-List: Way back in Kitfox history - Repeated posting > > Johannes, > > It=92s great to see you back on the list and researching the history of Denny=92s work. It=92s certainly interesting. > > My only comment, and this is as a long time Kitfox owner, List friend and EAA Member dating back to nearly the beginning and also as the current Chairman of the EAA Homebuilt Aircraft Council, and member of the EAA Board Directors. I think it=92s great that the history provided on the EAA website provides the ability for many of us to do the research we enjoy. This is all made possible by the dues the members pay as well as the sponsors at AirVenture/Oshkosh. Without them there wouldn=92t be a website - or EAA. It=92s not a public website, it=92s for the dues paying members. It hurts that we would be thought of as the bad men at EAA for allowing only our dues paying members access to their funded resources. If everyone had free access to all that EAA offered, why would anyone pay dues? Eventually EAA would be forced to shutdown for lack of funding and then no one would have the resources you and I and others find so valuable. I=92m sorry if this comes across as harsh as I certainly don=92t mean to offend anyone, but being referred to as the badmen at EAA just struck me as off target. I would like to personally invite you to join EAA and then you would have unfettered access to all we have to offer. Your writings could possibly be included in the Experimenter or Sport Aviation so all EAA members could appreciate the fine work you=92re doing. > > Regards, > > Rick Weiss > Series V Speedster, 912ULS and Dynon Skyview equipped - and loving it > Port Orange, FL > > > On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:55 AM, Johannes Czernin wrote: > >> Great to get a lightning-speed reply from one of the real old-timers here on >> the List! Thanks a lot for that link - yes, it is exactly the story the big >> bad men at EAA wouldn't let me read! > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:20 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Kitfox-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Kitfox-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Kitfox-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. 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Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kitfox-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:17 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.