Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:45 AM - Austin catalina (Jack Bell)
2. 08:24 AM - Re: Austin catalina (Michael Gibbs)
3. 08:40 AM - kitfox vs avid 582 mounting (Jack Bell)
4. 08:53 AM - Re: kitfox vs avid 582 mounting (Patrick Reilly)
5. 09:52 PM - Re: kitfox vs avid 582 mounting (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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>I lusted over the Catalina long and hard before buying my Model IV back in the
>early '90s. Is it as fun as it looks like it should be, Jack?
>Not much legally landable water here in Arizona, just Lakes Powell and Havasu,
>I think.
The catalina is fun to fly, but pretty draggy- cruise is around 70-75
indicated, and it seems I'm
always in a headwind. I have to fold the wings to get it into the
hangar, and to make that
happen takes around 45 minutes- the wingspan is 36 feet, and when they
fold, the floats
are lower than the tailwheel. You also have to take off the rear cowls
(five pieces) before
folding. I load it on a trailer- *before* the wings fold, the tailwheel
weight is 105 pounds!
There's no suspension other than the turf-glide tires, and only two
inches or so of clearance
on the keel when sitting on the tailwheel. I've yet to land on a grass
runway, but soon...
Its fun to fly off the water. I want to widen my horizons, so I'm
building on an osprey II,
which should get there much faster. It'll make the sport stall speed
with the longer wing option,
and as the builder, I get to declare the gross weight, which will be
1430 pounds...
One nice thing George Bush did as governor in Texas is declare all
bodies of water that are open
to motor boats (without horsepower limitations) to be open to seaplanes
as well. There are a few
limitations on *where* on some lakes you can operate, and some lakes are
closed to operations
by petition, but, not many.
I did this video a while back.. http://youtu.be/v8N8fQ803iA
-Jack
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Austin catalina |
Great video and info, thanks Jack!
Mike G.
Phoenix, AZ
Kitfox Series 7
> On Apr 2, 2017, at 6:41 AM, Jack Bell <jack@comconn.com> wrote:
>
> The catalina is fun to fly, but pretty draggy- cruise is around 70-75 indicated,
and it seems I'm
> always in a headwind. I have to fold the wings to get it into the hangar, and
to make that
> happen takes around 45 minutes- the wingspan is 36 feet, and when they fold,
the floats
> are lower than the tailwheel. You also have to take off the rear cowls (five
pieces) before
> folding. I load it on a trailer- *before* the wings fold, the tailwheel weight
is 105 pounds!
> There's no suspension other than the turf-glide tires, and only two inches or
so of clearance
> on the keel when sitting on the tailwheel. I've yet to land on a grass runway,
but soon...
>
> Its fun to fly off the water. I want to widen my horizons, so I'm building on
an osprey II,
> which should get there much faster. It'll make the sport stall speed with the
longer wing option,
> and as the builder, I get to declare the gross weight, which will be 1430 pounds...
>
> One nice thing George Bush did as governor in Texas is declare all bodies of
water that are open
> to motor boats (without horsepower limitations) to be open to seaplanes as well.
There are a few
> limitations on *where* on some lakes you can operate, and some lakes are closed
to operations
> by petition, but, not many.
>
> I did this video a while back.. http://youtu.be/v8N8fQ803iA
>
> -Jack
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | kitfox vs avid 582 mounting |
>Time: 09:19:48 AM PST US
>From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/31/17
>
>Jack, The main difference between the Avid and Kitfox that I see is with
>the 582 the Avid designer somehow got confused and mounted the engine
>upside down?
>I looked at a stretched Avid project, but I have too many projects and it
>was 1/2 way across the country.
>Pat Reilly
>Mod 3 o582
>Rockford, IL
The Avid designer (Dean Wilson) was all about performance- by mounting the engine
upside down,
he was able to use the (tuned) stock exhaust system.
The Avid designer's business partner, Dan Denney, didn't like the looks of the
installation,
so he modified the exhaust (and little else) when he started his own company to
make it fit under
the cowl, which cost about 10% of the horsepower. When both companies were still
around, the Avid guys guaranteed that their aircraft with the same engines were
faster.
The Kitfox had better marketing, the models were better defined and the
bump cowl gave it a distinctive look.
Avid's owner/designer was more into designing different aircraft- like
the magnum, and the amphibian. And don't forget
the wilson global explorer (which was designed to carry an avid
flyer inside)! The stretched version of
the MK IV was done by John Larsen, and later marketed as the airedale.
Oddly- one of the quirks I'm fighting in my Catalina is the engine
mounted.. upside down.
At the time the mount was designed (1992, by a now defunct distributor
of Hirth engines),
their theory was that having the carbs on the bottom was safer, as any
fuel leaks could not fall
on the exhaust system and catch fire. It makes it a lot harder to tune
the normally side or
down draft carbs.. and forget priming! (I figure that distributor once
had a Fiat 850.. the fuel
pump was mounted above the muffler, inside the arch of the exhaust
headers. You don't
see many old Fiat 850s .)
-Jack
Fisher Super Koala, Hirth 2704 (danged dillo burrow)
Kitfox 1, 582 (sold)
Avid MK IV, Jabiru 2200 (sold)
Avid Catalina, Hirth F30 (flying)
Osprey II, Lyc O320 (50%?)
trivia: If you look at an Amphibian or Catalina, the nose dock bumper
is a (Wilson) basketball.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox vs avid 582 mounting |
Jack, Thanks for the info. Good stuff! What else do you know about the
stretched models running o200 o230's. I guess one could go with the Mod V
and up Kitfoxes. But the stretched Fox or Avid looks interesting. I also
saw 2 Avid Magnums advertised for sale somewhere here in the Midwest a few
months back.
Pat Reilly
Rockford, IL
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Jack Bell <jack@comconn.com> wrote:
>
> Time: 09:19:48 AM PST US
>> From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/31/17
>>
>> Jack, The main difference between the Avid and Kitfox that I see is with
>> the 582 the Avid designer somehow got confused and mounted the engine
>> upside down?
>> I looked at a stretched Avid project, but I have too many projects and it
>> was 1/2 way across the country.
>>
>
> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 o582
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>
>
> The Avid designer (Dean Wilson) was all about performance- by mounting the
> engine upside down,
> he was able to use the (tuned) stock exhaust system.
>
> The Avid designer's business partner, Dan Denney, didn't like the looks of
> the installation,
> so he modified the exhaust (and little else) when he started his own
> company to make it fit under
> the cowl, which cost about 10% of the horsepower. When both companies were
> still
> around, the Avid guys guaranteed that their aircraft with the same engines
> were faster.
>
> The Kitfox had better marketing, the models were better defined and the
> bump cowl gave it a distinctive look.
> Avid's owner/designer was more into designing different aircraft- like the
> magnum, and the amphibian. And don't forget
> the wilson global explorer (which was designed to carry an avid flyer
> inside)! The stretched version of
> the MK IV was done by John Larsen, and later marketed as the airedale.
>
> Oddly- one of the quirks I'm fighting in my Catalina is the engine
> mounted.. upside down.
> At the time the mount was designed (1992, by a now defunct distributor of
> Hirth engines),
> their theory was that having the carbs on the bottom was safer, as any
> fuel leaks could not fall
> on the exhaust system and catch fire. It makes it a lot harder to tune
> the normally side or
> down draft carbs.. and forget priming! (I figure that distributor once had
> a Fiat 850.. the fuel
> pump was mounted above the muffler, inside the arch of the exhaust
> headers. You don't
> see many old Fiat 850s .)
>
> -Jack
> Fisher Super Koala, Hirth 2704 (danged dillo burrow)
> Kitfox 1, 582 (sold)
> Avid MK IV, Jabiru 2200 (sold)
> Avid Catalina, Hirth F30 (flying)
> Osprey II, Lyc O320 (50%?)
>
> trivia: If you look at an Amphibian or Catalina, the nose dock bumper is
> a (Wilson) basketball.
>
>
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
W10 0290 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox vs avid 582 mounting |
Jack's assessment is pretty much what my dad and I concluded back in 1991 after
visiting both factories and flying with pilots from each. Avid was working on
many different products and Denney was refining their single product line.
That's not a value judgement, there's merit in both pursuits.
Mike G.
Phoenix, AZ
Kitfox Series 7
> On Apr 2, 2017, at 8:38 AM, Jack Bell <jack@comconn.com> wrote:
>
> The Kitfox had better marketing, the models were better defined and the bump
cowl gave it a distinctive look. Avid's owner/designer was more into designing
different aircraft- like the magnum, and the amphibian. And don't forget the
wilson global explorer (which was designed to carry an avid flyer inside)!
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