Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:20 AM - Safe Seats (George Nielsen)
2. 02:33 PM - Re: Safe Seats (Michael Gibbs)
3. 11:00 PM - Re: Safe Seats (George Nielsen)
Message 1
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As I possess and Avid Flyer and it is similar to a Kitfox I make use of
this list. At present the seats of my Avid Flyer are out in order to
facilitate the installation of underseat avionics and an antenna. Does
anyone know how to improve the crash survivability of my aircraft by
either replacing or modifying or including any additions to the seats.
In my opinion it is necessary to have good seats to survive any crash
unscathed or with minimal injuries. Thank you.
George Nielsen
Avid Flyer I-6640
The Hague, the Netherlands
Message 2
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Hi George,
As the old timers on this list are aware, I crashed a model IV Kitfox in
August of 2004. Based on my experience, it's not the seats that you
should be focused on, it's the instrument panel and lap/shoulder
restraints. In my case the airplane impacted rough terrain nose first
which collapsed the nosewheel and caused the fuselage to snap at the
firewall. When the firewall-forward portion bent upwards relative to the
rest of the airframe, it caused the instrument panel to move closer to
myself and my passenger and the bottom of the panel smashed me in the
shins, breaking both of my legs below the knee.
My passenger suffered a non-displaced fracture of a lumbar vertebrae but
I think that was simply because there isn't much space or structure
under the seats to absorb impact. He recovered fully with bed rest.
I think the shoulder straps and lap belt did what they were supposed to
do in terms of restraining us but since the panel moved closer and
downward I still managed to hit it hard enough to break all of the bones
in my face except for my nose (eye orbitals, cheek bones, jaw, etc.). My
face was very swollen and it was several days in the hospital before
they noticed on an x-ray that the set knob for the altimeter was
embedded in my cheek!
I am interested in those airbags that are integrated into airplane
shoulder straps, I think in my case that would have made a lot of
difference. Last I checked they were not available for Kitfox/Avid
aircraft but that was quite a while ago and it's time to check again.
Getting back to your question, though, I do know some builders have used
nylon straps to provide additional structural support to the bottom of
the seat pans due issues with cracking or failures of the fiberglass
(usually due to heavy people, not accidents). Several straps running
fore/aft can be attached to the bars in front (below the knee) and back
(beneath the occupant's bottoms) with just enough slack so that, when
installed, the bottom of the seat pan is partially supported by the straps.
I hope this was helpful.
Mike G.
Phoenix, AZ
Kitfox Series 7
George Nielsen wrote on 9/9/18 9:20 AM:
>
> As I possess and Avid Flyer and it is similar to a Kitfox I make use
> of this list. At present the seats of my Avid Flyer are out in order
> to facilitate the installation of underseat avionics and an antenna.
> Does anyone know how to improve the crash survivability of my aircraft
> by either replacing or modifying or including any additions to the
> seats. In my opinion it is necessary to have good seats to survive any
> crash unscathed or with minimal injuries. Thank you.
>
> George Nielsen
> Avid Flyer I-6640
> The Hague, the Netherlands
Message 3
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Hi Mike,
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry to hear that you and your passenger
have suffered injury due to the crash. I hope that you have both fully
recovered.
If you hear about seat belts with airbags please let me know. If you
know where I can obtain an illustration or information about the straps
under the seat please let me know as well. I understand that this is
important to prevent injury to the vertebral column.
George
On 09-Sep-18 23:22, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>
> Hi George,
>
> As the old timers on this list are aware, I crashed a model IV Kitfox
> in August of 2004. Based on my experience, it's not the seats that you
> should be focused on, it's the instrument panel and lap/shoulder
> restraints. In my case the airplane impacted rough terrain nose first
> which collapsed the nosewheel and caused the fuselage to snap at the
> firewall. When the firewall-forward portion bent upwards relative to
> the rest of the airframe, it caused the instrument panel to move
> closer to myself and my passenger and the bottom of the panel smashed
> me in the shins, breaking both of my legs below the knee.
>
> My passenger suffered a non-displaced fracture of a lumbar vertebrae
> but I think that was simply because there isn't much space or
> structure under the seats to absorb impact. He recovered fully with
> bed rest.
>
> I think the shoulder straps and lap belt did what they were supposed
> to do in terms of restraining us but since the panel moved closer and
> downward I still managed to hit it hard enough to break all of the
> bones in my face except for my nose (eye orbitals, cheek bones, jaw,
> etc.). My face was very swollen and it was several days in the
> hospital before they noticed on an x-ray that the set knob for the
> altimeter was embedded in my cheek!
>
> I am interested in those airbags that are integrated into airplane
> shoulder straps, I think in my case that would have made a lot of
> difference. Last I checked they were not available for Kitfox/Avid
> aircraft but that was quite a while ago and it's time to check again.
>
> Getting back to your question, though, I do know some builders have
> used nylon straps to provide additional structural support to the
> bottom of the seat pans due issues with cracking or failures of the
> fiberglass (usually due to heavy people, not accidents). Several
> straps running fore/aft can be attached to the bars in front (below
> the knee) and back (beneath the occupant's bottoms) with just enough
> slack so that, when installed, the bottom of the seat pan is partially
> supported by the straps.
>
> I hope this was helpful.
>
> Mike G.
> Phoenix, AZ
> Kitfox Series 7
>
>
> George Nielsen wrote on 9/9/18 9:20 AM:
>>
>> As I possess and Avid Flyer and it is similar to a Kitfox I make use
>> of this list. At present the seats of my Avid Flyer are out in order
>> to facilitate the installation of underseat avionics and an antenna.
>> Does anyone know how to improve the crash survivability of my
>> aircraft by either replacing or modifying or including any additions
>> to the seats. In my opinion it is necessary to have good seats to
>> survive any crash unscathed or with minimal injuries. Thank you.
>>
>> George Nielsen
>> Avid Flyer I-6640
>> The Hague, the Netherlands
>
>
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