Kolb-List Digest Archive

Sun 12/15/02


Total Messages Posted: 43



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:33 AM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Peter Volum)
     2. 07:41 AM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Johann G.)
     3. 07:46 AM - Re: Floats on a Firestar II (Johann G.)
     4. 08:27 AM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Larry Bourne)
     5. 09:17 AM - Cover Wings (Terry)
     6. 09:33 AM - Verner comments (William George)
     7. 09:56 AM - Re: Cover wings (CaptainRon)
     8. 10:00 AM - Re: Cover wings (CaptainRon)
     9. 10:21 AM - Re: Problems I can't Seem to Whip (Christopher Armstrong)
    10. 10:39 AM - Re: Interesting Engine! (CaptainRon)
    11. 11:24 AM - Re: Cover Wings (Richard Pike)
    12. 12:08 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
    13. 12:56 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
    14. 01:30 PM - Remote ckokes ()
    15. 02:11 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Larry Bourne)
    16. 02:13 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Bob Bean)
    17. 02:17 PM - Carburettor Jets (Larry Bourne)
    18. 02:30 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (John Hauck)
    19. 03:47 PM - Re: Remote ckokes (Bill Weber)
    20. 03:53 PM - Re: Saftey wiring spark plug wires, (GeoR38@aol.com)
    21. 04:13 PM - Re: Verner comments (John Hauck)
    22. 04:36 PM - Wright Flyer (John Hauck)
    23. 04:45 PM - Re: Cover Wings (Don Gherardini)
    24. 04:52 PM - Re: Cover wings (Don Gherardini)
    25. 05:01 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (snuffy@usol.com)
    26. 05:10 PM - Re: NGK spark plugs (dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford))
    27. 05:16 PM - Engines (Paul Petty)
    28. 05:16 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (John Hauck)
    29. 05:20 PM - Re: Cover wings (possums)
    30. 05:38 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (CaptainRon)
    31. 05:52 PM - Re: Engines (CaptainRon)
    32. 05:55 PM - Re: Interesting Engine! (snuffy@usol.com)
    33. 06:07 PM - Re: Wright Flyer (GeoR38@aol.com)
    34. 06:08 PM - Re: Cover Wings (woody)
    35. 06:22 PM - Re: Engines (Richard Harris)
    36. 06:26 PM - Re: Cover wings (Tiffany Pitra)
    37. 06:37 PM - Re: Engines (John Hauck)
    38. 06:41 PM - Re: Remote ckokes (HShack@aol.com)
    39. 06:42 PM - Re: Wright Flyer (John Hauck)
    40. 07:13 PM - Re: Cover Wings (woody)
    41. 07:19 PM - can "O" worms (Paul Petty)
    42. 07:39 PM - BTW (Paul Petty)
    43. 09:39 PM - Re: Engines (Don Gherardini)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:33:23 AM PST US
    From: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
    Subject: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com> I'm salivating at the thought... If the entire snowmobile costs less than $10,000, I wonder what the engine alone would cost. If around $5 or $6,000, that's a heck of a deal for a 150HP 4-stroke fire breather capable of 10,000 RPM! The extra details in the press release section http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/sno/press/amsnow/amsno1.htm make it sound even better. Included reduction drive, high torque at low RPM, etc... I'm sure somebody will put one on an aircraft soon. I hope we get to hear some feedback when that happens. PV Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Earl & Mim Zimmerman Subject: Kolb-List: Interesting Engine! --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com> I stumbled across this new snowmobile engine and wondered if it could be adapted for aircraft use. Not sure of the weight or dimensions. Click on the engine to see a 3-D virtual reality picture. Keep clicking the mouse to turn the picture. http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/sno/media/vr/03/rx-1er/rx-1Multi.ht m# -- Earl =


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:41:13 AM PST US
    From: "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is> Hi Earl and list members. I had been wondering about this engine for my other project Zenith 701 (sorry about that off list plane) since it came out, and it looks interesting option for the Mark III. It would almost be less expensive to buy the complete snowmobile with everything included, as is would be for the Rotax 912s engine?? Price around $9,150 It would be interesting to know the price of the engine only? I for one will be following every info on this engine. Good input Earl. Best wishes, Johann G. (Grandfather in Santaland. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl & Mim Zimmerman" <emzi@supernet.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Interesting Engine! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com> > > John Hauck wrote: > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> > > > > > Not sure of the weight or dimensions.-- Earl > > > > Earl/Gents: > > > > That would make a fine airplane engine with the > > proper gear reduction. 145 hp would make Miss > > P'fer dance out of those confined areas. :-) > > I read somewhere in a magazine review of this engine that it already has > a reduction, but I don't know the ratio. -- Earl > Do Not Archive > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:46:41 AM PST US
    From: "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is>
    Subject: Re: Floats on a Firestar II
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann-g@talnet.is> Hello Howard, Look into this type of floats. They have many sizes. http://www.czaw.cz/ Best regards, Johann G. Iceland. ----- Original Message ----- From: <HShack@aol.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Floats on a Firestar II > --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com > > Ever since I began thinking of getting in to ultralights, I knew I would > eventually want to put on some floats. I'm getting close. > > I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has knowledge of a good setup > for amphibious floats on a Firestar II. > > I am aware of the Full Lotus monofloat, but think I would prefer twin floats- > preferably something really light. My personal weight is 265...[No, don't > tell me to loose weight; I already dropped 20 lbs & that's about good as > it's gonna' get.] > > Howard Shackleford > FS II > SC > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:27:37 AM PST US
    From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com> Sounds like a real good deal all right, but let's look at a couple of factors........................ It's a 1 liter (998cc) engine; about 61 cubic inches. So is the 3 cylinder Suzuki, and even when turbocharged that engine doesn't produce even close to 150 hp. That would be 2.5 hp/cu. in. WOW ! ! ! You guys jumped all over me a couple of years ago about this same subject, so I guess I'm still old-fashioned. 2.5 hp/c.i.........I still have trouble with that. It says "upward of 150 hp." How much is "upward" to an adman ?? 135 hp ?? 140 hp ?? Those guys are professional liars. (Sorry to any ad-men in the group) It has a reduction drive of 31:37............quite close to 1.2:1, so if you're turning the engine at 8000 rpm (! ! !), the output will be at 6666 rpm, and you'd still need a redrive on it. The brochure also says it's a tall engine. How tall ?? It's difficult to impossible to lower an engine on a Kolb, without extensive cutting and welding. Where would that put the thrust line ?? Vamoose' thrust line is quite high, and even running it on the ground, I can see that it will bear close watching, and may cause problems. On the positive side, it IS a Yamaha, whose products & reputation are excellent. Then, too, if the engine isn't too heavy, it would still work very well even if it only put out, say, 100 hp or 120 hp. I t'ink I'll sit back and watch for a bit. Flame Away ! ! ! Skeptical Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Interesting Engine! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com> > > I'm salivating at the thought... > > If the entire snowmobile costs less than $10,000, I wonder what the


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:17:02 AM PST US
    From: Terry <davistcs@eoni.com>
    Subject: Cover Wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <davistcs@eoni.com> Woody, When you cut the fabric to minimize the scalloping, does that leave marks or lines in the finish on the top fabric. I've thought of doing the cut fabric number when I cover my wings in a week or so but I didn't know if it would help much and I was worried about it leaving a corrugated look in the fabric/finish. But then "you the man", you've done 3 and I haven't even done one yet! Terry Davis FS, still covering


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:33:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Verner comments
    From: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com>
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com> Dennis Kirby posted some remarks on engine selection and the Verner that I thought were spot on. Like that old car commercial says "ask the man who owns one." Some months back Rotax engine guru Steve Beatty was in Hawaii assisting in the installation of a 912 on Adriel Heisey's Twinstar. I borrowed him for a while to check on a problem I had with a loss of 400 rpm on full throttle go-around. Turned out to be a frayed boot on the intake manifold. While here Steve got a chance to look over the Verner and liked what he saw. Peering into the heads he opined that some nice Czech fellow had polished the ports, not often seen in production engines. He also said that Czech steel is of very high quality. Steve's email is gassitt@aol.com Wind finally subsided so I flew my Mk-3 two days this week. It had been eleven weeks since it was last started. I charged the battery, did a thorough preflight and cranked it up. It started on the first try and ran smoothly. I will admit that I had previously experienced hard starting on occasion. After trying every combination known to man I finally hit upon a procedure that works every time. Simply close the throttle completely, do not use choke and don't advance the throttle until the engine completely catches. Works every time. Initial climb was 1000 fpm from an airport elevation of 2671 ft. Surface temperature 65 degrees. Cruise was 64 mph at 3800 RPM, 4500 to 5500 MSL. Climb CHT was 180. Cruise CHT was 170. The only issue I currently am experiencing with the Verner is low oil temperature. I have been progressively taping the oil cooler. It is now about half taped and the temperature still doesn't get above 65C. Propeller is a Powerfin "F" model three blade at 68 inches. The Powerfin is an excellent propeller. I could use a bit more cruise but the only way to get it would be to go to an in flight adjustable prop or perhaps a two blade. Pitch/cruise airspeed at 3800 RPM is as follows: 12.2/64, 13.5/66, 14.6/68. Got my first visit by a Kolb Lister. Erich Weaver visited last week with his wife and young daughter. Had a good chat about Kolbs and took him to see my Mk-3. Of course it was in the trailer but he was able to check it out fairly well. Very nice family. Now that the ice is broken would expect that you guys will give me a call when you are on the Big Island. Bill George Kolb Mk-3/Verner1400SVS/Powerfin 68" "F"


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:56:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cover wings
    From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com> Top of the morning Folks. Thanks John, I am going to build a some kinda support to hold the wing trailing edge, and the leading edge of the ailron in line, and then take it from there. I noticed that Woody used a different method ie rivet permanent and then cover. I must admit that his method seems to be the quickest with the least screwing around. But I am not there yet, so I'll see and decide. Later dude do not archive ======================================== 12/14/02 12:48John Hauck > > I put everything together prior to covering. All > hinges made up and drilled, attached temporarily > with cheap soft rivets (a couple two or three each > side will hole them in position).


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:00:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cover wings
    From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com> Hi woody. Your method seems the most atractive, I kinda was leaning in that direction already, so its good to know its a viable and *proven* method. I have till this afternoon before I commit. I will also be using a version of the X hinge and that could cause a complication at the covering. So I am still sorting it out. Later do not archive 12/14/02 15:20woody > I attached the hinges > permanently first and then when I covered I put little slots in the fabric > where the hinge ears stick out.


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:21:06 AM PST US
    From: "Christopher Armstrong" <cen33475@centurytel.net>
    Subject: Problems I can't Seem to Whip
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <cen33475@CenturyTel.net> A static port through the nose will be problematic, since you need an area of neutral pressure for that. A location out the side, or as in your case the bottom, of the fuselage offers a better bet, I think. Lee in Ky Firestar II what your looking for is an area with zero velocity in the direction of the static ports. most people make this by putting a tub out in front of the aircraft mounted at the cruise angle of incidence and puting the static port holes around the sides of the tube. if you mount this tube on a universal pivot with fins at the back then the tube points into the wind at all times and you get really acurate static pressure. pitot pressure can be obtained by the end of this tube and since it points into the wind it is very acurate as well. you can also put one static port on either side of the plane and let the side slip average out. the main thing is to try to get un accelerated air, which will result in a bad static reading. more or less dont mount them where the surface is curved and you wont get hogh or low readings.


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:39:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com> Hell it almost looks like the perfect engine. One thing though how much does it wiegh? Could not see it in the specs. Another thing is the reduction drive. I may just go down to the Yamaha dealer and see if I can get more specs on this bad boy. Other than that it looks better than anything else I have seen so far inclusive of the Rota$. Now who can do a reduction drive for it? Of course I am going here on the assumption that this motor goes for around 1.5K US$, it being stuck in a snow mobil. ========================================= 12/14/02 17:57Earl & Mim Zimmerman > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com> > > I stumbled across this new snowmobile engine and wondered if it could be > adapted for aircraft use. Not sure of the weight or dimensions. > Click on the engine to see a 3-D virtual reality picture. Keep clicking > the mouse to turn the picture. > http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/sno/media/vr/03/rx-1er/rx-1Multi.htm# > -- Earl >


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:24:32 AM PST US
    From: Richard Pike <rwpike@preferred.com>
    Subject: Re: Cover Wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@preferred.com> Back in the Pre- Far Part 103 Stone Age days of foot launched "Motorized Hang Gliders", there was a tail less biplane called an Easy Riser that used an interesting method of keeping the fabric from scalloping down between the ribs. You used filament tape, the kind used for wrapping boxes, and tightly stretched three lengths spanwise on each wing, one about 4" back from the leading edge, another one about 4" behind the first one, and a third one at about the high point of the airfoil. Then when you covered the wing, those lengthwise strips held the fabric up. Years later, we removed the U/V degraded sails from a friends Hummer and recovered it with Stits. Since the ribs were kind of far apart, we did the same thing, only instead of strapping tape, we used thin aluminum flashing cut into 1" wide strips and riveted to the tops of the ribs running spanwise from the root to the tip. Held the fabric up and didn't look too bad, or weigh very much. You could see it under the fabric, but it kept a good airfoil, (which was the goal) and this sounds like a rerun of the same scheme....probably works real well, even if it does look a little unconventional. Now go park your Firestar next to a Cessna Mixmaster, look at them both, roll your eyes, shake your head, and don't worry about unconventional... Do Not Archive Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 08:57 AM 12/15/02 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <davistcs@eoni.com> > >Woody, > When you cut the fabric to minimize the scalloping, does that leave >marks >or lines in the finish on the top fabric. I've thought of doing the cut >fabric number when I cover my wings in a week or so but I didn't know if it >would help much and I was worried about it leaving a corrugated look in the >fabric/finish. But then "you the man", you've done 3 and I haven't even >done one yet! >Terry Davis >FS, still covering > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:08:30 PM PST US
    From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com> Peter Volum wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com> > > I'm salivating at the thought... > > If the entire snowmobile costs less than $10,000, I wonder what the > engine alone would cost. Probably $9,500 :-) -Earl Do Not Archive


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:56:05 PM PST US
    From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com> I found some more interesting engines. This time it's from the big "R" word. Hey it don't cost much to dream. Right? -- Earl http://www.ski-doo.com/SkiDoo2003/web/jsp/100_mainPage.jsp?Params=N.US.710.0# Do Not Archive


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:30:32 PM PST US
    From: <rowedl@highstream.net>
    Subject: Remote ckokes
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net> Kolb listers, Has anyone had problems with the ckoke lever pull force being to heavy on their dual carb rotax 2 strokes? My 690 has three carbs and I am unable to apply the chokes due to the high pull force required to lift the plungers. I have disassembled the entire set up to look for problem spots jamming things up, but it just seems that the choke spring rates are just too high. Even with one carb disconnected, and only two chokes hooked up, the pull force is extreamly high. I even tried a longer choke lever for more leverage. Feels like I am gonna break the cable. I am going to try to locate shorter lower rate springs tommorow for eack carb. Anyone have any other ideas? Thanks Denny Rowe Mk-3 N616DR 2SI 690L-70 Final assembly


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:11:23 PM PST US
    From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com> Long as it's just dreaming................looka that 4-Tec V-1000 engine on that page. Yum yum. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl & Mim Zimmerman" <emzi@supernet.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Interesting Engine! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com> > > I found some more interesting engines. This time it's from the big


    Message 16


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    Time: 02:13:37 PM PST US
    From: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> Earl is so right....if you buy the machine you get everything, harness, instruments, even a set of skis if you live in the north country. -BB do not archive Earl & Mim Zimmerman wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com> > >Peter Volum wrote: > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com> >> >>I'm salivating at the thought... >> >>If the entire snowmobile costs less than $10,000, I wonder what the >>engine alone would cost. >> >> > >Probably $9,500 :-) -Earl Do Not Archive > > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 02:17:44 PM PST US
    From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
    Subject: Carburettor Jets
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com> I have a problem - apparently - with a clogged, or restricted idle circuit in a Weber carburettor. I've been told to use suction to clear it, but can't remember quite how to build the thing to do the job. I have regulated Nitrogen here, and as I recall, you need a small tube leading into 1 side of a shallow "Y" and opening into a larger plenum, to create the suction at the other side of the "Y". Can't remember specifics, and it's gotta be pretty small. Any one got specs and/or pics ?? Thanks Frustrated Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com


    Message 18


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    Time: 02:30:44 PM PST US
    From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> > Now who can do a reduction drive for it? Of course I am going here on the > assumption that this motor goes for around 1.5K US$, it being stuck in a > snow mobil. Ron Ron/Gang: Bet you can't get the exhaust sytem for 1,500.00. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 19


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    Time: 03:47:33 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Weber" <bweber2@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Remote ckokes
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Weber" <bweber2@earthlink.net> Go with a primer setup. You won't need the chokes then. Got rid of my choke and never missed it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: <rowedl@highstream.net> Subject: Kolb-List: Remote ckokes > --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net> > > Kolb listers, > Has anyone had problems with the ckoke lever pull force being to heavy on their dual carb rotax 2 strokes? My 690 has three carbs and I am unable to apply the chokes due to the high pull force required to lift the plungers. > I have disassembled the entire set up to look for problem spots jamming things up, but it just seems that the choke spring rates are just too high. Even with one carb disconnected, and only two chokes hooked up, the pull force is extreamly high. > I even tried a longer choke lever for more leverage. Feels like I am gonna break the cable. > I am going to try to locate shorter lower rate springs tommorow for eack carb. > Anyone have any other ideas? > > Thanks > Denny Rowe > Mk-3 N616DR 2SI 690L-70 > Final assembly > >


    Message 20


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    Time: 03:53:54 PM PST US
    From: GeoR38@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Saftey wiring spark plug wires,
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 12/14/02 10:06:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, jhauck@sw.rr.com writes: > Recommend installing miniature automatic fire > extinguishers on each spark plug terminal in case > of a terminal fire caused by flammable glue. > > Take care, > > john h > > DO NOT ARCHVE > > Jonathon , sure you Josh.... one extinguisher would be plenty, with double > nozzles, of course George Randolph


    Message 21


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    Time: 04:13:01 PM PST US
    From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Verner comments
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> > Pitch/cruise airspeed at 3800 RPM is as follows: 12.2/64, 13.5/66, 14.6/68. > Bill George Hi Bill/Gang: I don't understand the poor performance with the Verner. The Verner doesn't stack up to a Rotax 582 except in one area, fuel burn. May be the difference in configuration of my airplane with enclosed upper rear fuselage compared to the open rear on most other MK III's. When Miss P'fer was powered with the 65 hp 582 she cruised at 80mph true at 5800 rpm or about 75% power. In fact, the two most recent engine upgrades have not improved much over the 582. The 912 cruised 80 to 85 mph and the 912S cruises 85 to 88 mph at 5,000 rpm. Granted each engine is turning different pitch. All three used 70 inch diameter Warp Drive Fast Taper blades. The 582 burned 5.5 gph, 912 4 gph, and the 912S 5.0 gph at cruise. No other modification to my airplane have been done in outside dimensions or configuration except enclosing the upper rear fuselage and changing the main landing gear configuration. Maybe differences in degree of heat shrinking fabric on wings and other parts of the airplane. I shrink until things start bending. May be amount and quality of dope and finish paint. I slather (as Dennis Sounder used to say) the dope and paint on pretty thick. May be the differences in dihedral and incidence of wings and tail. I don't know, but am happy with the way my old bird performs. Please don't take my post the wrong way. I hope everyone's different engine and airplane combos work out great. I do not work for nor have I ever received a penny from Rotax for flying their products, although many years ago Erick Tucker did help me out with some parts to get my 582 going initially. He also gave me an oil tank cap and the big "O" ring for the oil tank when I stopped by to visit him in Vernon, BC, during my return from Barrow, Alaska, in July 2001. That's it for Rotax support of any of my flights. If I do some comparisons between what I fly and what you guys are flying or contemplating buying, it is because I want to make sure you understand what is being advertised as it stacks up against what reality is. I.e., the Verner claiming 80 hp while letting the fact the it is only good for 70 hp max continuous performance. Stuff like that I think folks should know about and not be misled. I dig in their manuals which are posted on line and see what is in them. Same same for intensive maintenance. There are reasons that manufacturers, other than Rotax, of ultralight and lightplane engines haven't taken off and given Rotax any real competition. I think if you look at their track record so far you will see that most have had problems. So has Rotax had some pretty good problems. I have experienced some of them. Anyhow, have rambled enough and it is time to scratch up some chow supper. Again, please don't take my post the wrong way. I am not trying to shoot down anyone's product. Trying to see what is really out there. Besides, I am not in the market for a new engine or airplane. Happy with what I presently have. Take care, john h


    Message 22


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    Time: 04:36:23 PM PST US
    From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
    Subject: Wright Flyer
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> Hi Gang: We have been talking about power plants. Here is a good article on the replica that Ken Hyde is building of the Wright Flyer. When it opens, click on the schematic button for the engine: http://newsobserver.com/news/nc/story/2024299p-1956022c.html I had the privilege of spending some quality time with Ken Hyde the year he flew his Curtis Jenny from his home in Virginia to Oshkosh. He had spent something like 7 years restoring the Jenny to like new condition. Ken is a retired airline pilot. A very humble and interesting, talented man. Take care, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 23


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    Time: 04:45:52 PM PST US
    From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
    Subject: Re: Cover Wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net> Woody, I am also very intersted in your rambling tips!....LOL....I am finishing building my ailerons and will start asembling for rigging this week. I have been thinking about covering and so on. Do you rivet the fab to those skinny little ribs, or do you rib stich em'?? The riveting idea does seem attractive as a time saver, but that 5/16's rib tube seems so small that all those holes worry me. Also, on the idea of something to prevent the scalloping, I sure link that tip on the wrapping of the bottom fabric way around. I was trying to think up a way to help support the dabric there and this sounds like a winner..I had been considering using flat rib lacing across the ribs to accomplish this, but im sire it would show, as narrow as it is. this seems like a great idea. If you think up any more tips for us fellas about to the covering stage..PLEASE ...ramble onward ! Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm


    Message 24


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    Time: 04:52:38 PM PST US
    From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
    Subject: Re: Cover wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net> Also ..Woody, when you cut the slits for the hinge ears to stick thru...do you cement the fab down so you can still see the rivits on the hinge? I keep thinking about doing this just so, but I'm not sure i understand the technique just zactly! Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm


    Message 25


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    Time: 05:01:04 PM PST US
    From: snuffy@usol.com
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com >> Ron/Gang: > > Bet you can't get the exhaust sytem for 1,500.00. > > john h > > DO NOT ARCHIVE $1500 bet? Do Not Archive


    Message 26


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    Time: 05:10:26 PM PST US
    From: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford)
    Subject: Re: NGK spark plugs
    message of Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:56:22 -0800 --> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford) Page 7 of the Nov. Experimenter gives the scoop on NGK plugs and what to use in aircraft. Stock number for the correct plug is #3961....according to Roger Zerkle (???) even the NGK's that have the solid top can unscrew internally separating the threaded portion from the electrode...EXCEPT the above number, which has the electrode bonded ceramically to the plug.....or sumpin'....I agree with both Ralph and Shack.....don't see why you couldn't just tighten the end down with pliers and Loc-tite if you want added security. I saftied my wires to the plugs with nylon tie-wraps....if the plug wire is in place and can't move, the end can't possibly unscrew. Lordy I'm still in shock. The kids had me bring the wife to their house in Virginia for a surprise birthday party for her. They all got together and got us a round-trip flight to Juneau, Alaska. I GUESS I can go....wife said I could.....unless Morgan Freeman shows up first! Guess in that case I'd hafta hitch a ride with John on his next trip. We've always wanted to visit Alaska.....not the tourist traps but the real thing. Maybe even find a shack....who knows...? Mike in WV FSII Do not archive


    Message 27


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    Time: 05:16:05 PM PST US
    From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
    Subject: Engines
    SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OE, USER_IN_WHITELIST) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net> Gents, While on the subject I noticed that there is never any mention of HKS engines. Are they good/bad? I'm sold on the 912S. But like to look at others. At a recent fly in a man showed up in a homebuilt that looked like a Kolb.Well I went over to investigate of course, and noticed he had used a Honda 650CBR engine mounted low next to the tail boom and had a chain drive set up to a home made spinner shaft using common pillow block bearings. He powered the spinner via chain (a very long one) from the countershaft sprocket of the motorcycle engine! As he flew off it was very quiet and seem to fly very well. I heard others make the comment, "Yeah and he shift's the thing while in flight!". Crazy ey? I have some photos if any of you want to see it. Thanks Paul


    Message 28


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    Time: 05:16:05 PM PST US
    From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> > $1500 bet? Snuffy You didn't read it the way I wrote it, or I didn't write it the way you read it................. :-) I know it would cost you that much if it had Rotax stamped on it. What's a two stroke muffler? $500.00? john h DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 29


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    Time: 05:20:00 PM PST US
    From: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Cover wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com> At 06:57 PM 12/15/2002 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net> > >Also ..Woody, when you cut the slits for the hinge ears to stick thru...do >you cement the fab down so you can still see the rivits on the hinge? I keep >thinking about doing this just so, but I'm not sure i understand the >technique just zactly! > >Don Gherardini You guys had better glue the fabric down good if your going to cut the slits for the hinges, instead of putting the hinges on top of the fabric. If you don't - when you heat shrink it - those slits will open up like a carp's mouth.


    Message 30


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    Time: 05:38:58 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com> 12/15/02 15:30John Hauck > Bet you can't get the exhaust sytem for 1,500.00. ==================== Heck for 1.5K I'll go over to Julio right here in town, and have him bend me some pipes that will fit into some kinda aviation muffler. The man has been doing all sort of muffler pipes ever since he made it across the border about 25 years ago. :-) do not archive


    Message 31


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    Time: 05:52:17 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engines
    From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com> 12/15/02 18:21Paul Petty > Gents, > While on the subject I noticed that there is never any mention of HKS engines. > Are they good/bad? I'm sold on the 912S. =================== They put out 60hp and that's that. Not in the runing on my M3X that will probably be on the heavy side, simply because I aint worried about it. On the smaller kolbs I would think it would be a great match. Why those with the lighter ones don't install,, I would guess they just go with what others have done, most people don't move far afield in their quest for fun. Do not archive


    Message 32


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    Time: 05:55:03 PM PST US
    From: snuffy@usol.com
    Subject: Re: Interesting Engine!
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com I'll see if I can find out what one would cost. My son is a mechanic at one of Michigan's largest Yamaha dealerships. See what else I can find out about it. I understand it is basically the same engine as the one on the R1 crotch rocket motorcycle. He had one of those and it was a screamer. I took it out once and was over 100 mph in third when I looked at the speedo. He used to take it to the drags and I believe it turned in the low eights. I can believe the 150 hp figure. You should see what they get out of the ice drag sleds up here. Might be able to get the R1 engine pretty reasonable used, as they wreck those bikes on a regular basis. Way too much bike for the kids that buy them generally. The bike engine would have the gear reduction too. Could be fun! :o)


    Message 33


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    Time: 06:07:14 PM PST US
    From: GeoR38@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Wright Flyer
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/02 7:37:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhauck@sw.rr.com writes: > Hi Gang: > > We have been talking about power plants. Here is > a good article on the replica that Ken Hyde is > building of the Wright Flyer. When it opens, > click on the schematic button for the engine: > > http://newsobserver.com/news/nc/story/2024299p-1956022c.html > > I had the privilege of spending some quality time > with Ken Hyde the year he flew his Curtis Jenny > from his home in Virginia to Oshkosh. He had > spent something like 7 years restoring the Jenny > to like new condition. Ken is a retired airline > pilot. A very humble and interesting, talented > man. > > Take care, > > john h > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Good Lord....that engine had NO carburator!! Talk about touchy drip > control!! George Randolph


    Message 34


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    Time: 06:08:29 PM PST US
    From: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
    Subject: Re: Cover Wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net> At 08:57 AM 12/15/02 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <davistcs@eoni.com> > >Woody, > When you cut the fabric to minimize the scalloping, does that > leave marks >or lines in the finish on the top fabric. I've thought of doing the cut >fabric number when I cover my wings in a week or so but I didn't know if it >would help much and I was worried about it leaving a corrugated look in the >fabric/finish. But then "you the man", you've done 3 and I haven't even >done one yet! >Terry Davis >FS, still covering I do not see any marks from the fabric underneath. The fabric is still soft enough that they will form to the top fabric. Scalloping is not eliminated and Jim and dondi have a shrinking technique that minimizes it also. Using the two together should give you a good wing. You may be able to see my covering job if you go to photo search and look at some of my photos including the older ones. The X hinge set up seems to be overkill on a part that has not shown any problems. Use the instructions for installing gap seals and forget about using book binding tape. The original way is fast, easy, cheap, and long lasting.


    Message 35


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    Time: 06:22:15 PM PST US
    From: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
    Subject: Re: Engines
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com> Paul, I for one would love to see the photos. Richard Harris MK3 N912RH Lewisville, Arkansas --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net> > > Gents, > While on the subject I noticed that there is never any mention of HKS engines. Are they good/bad? I'm sold on the 912S. But like to look at others. At a recent fly in a man showed up in a homebuilt that looked like a Kolb.Well I went over to investigate of course, and noticed he had used a Honda 650CBR engine mounted low next to the tail boom and had a chain drive set up to a home made spinner shaft using common pillow block bearings. He powered the spinner via chain (a very long one) from the countershaft sprocket of the motorcycle engine! As he flew off it was very quiet and seem to fly very well. I heard others make the comment, "Yeah and he shift's the thing while in flight!". > Crazy ey? > I have some photos if any of you want to see it. > > Thanks > Paul > >


    Message 36


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    Time: 06:26:40 PM PST US
    From: Tiffany Pitra <tif_qtra@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Cover wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Tiffany Pitra <tif_qtra@yahoo.com> Look at the fergy it is like that I think. CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com> wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Top of the morning Folks. Thanks John, I am going to build a some kinda support to hold the wing trailing edge, and the leading edge of the ailron in line, and then take it from there. I noticed that Woody used a different method ie rivet permanent and then cover. I must admit that his method seems to be the quickest with the least screwing around. But I am not there yet, so I'll see and decide. Later dude do not archive ======================================== 12/14/02 12:48John Hauck > > I put everything together prior to covering. All > hinges made up and drilled, attached temporarily > with cheap soft rivets (a couple two or three each > side will hole them in position). ---------------------------------


    Message 37


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    Time: 06:37:55 PM PST US
    From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Engines
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> Why those with > the lighter ones don't install,, I would guess they just go with what others > have done, most people don't move far afield in their quest for fun. Ron Ron/Gents: I have to disagree with the above. Most of this experimentation has been done in the past. Old Kolb Co had a brand new HKS which did not get the job done. They tested it and dropped it. New Kolb tested the Verner and dropped it. The other engines don't seem to have a good track record. My own personal observations over the years of my sport. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 38


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    Time: 06:41:57 PM PST US
    From: HShack@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Remote ckokes
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/02 4:31:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, rowedl@highstream.net writes: > I am going to try to locate shorter lower rate springs tommorow for eack > carb. > Anyone have any other ideas? > > Maybe cut about 2 coils off the existing springs. Shack FS II SC


    Message 39


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    Time: 06:42:31 PM PST US
    From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Wright Flyer
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> > > Good Lord....that engine had NO carburator!! Talk about touchy drip > > control!! > > George Randolph George/Gents: Wonder if it is any better than the Bings we fly with? john h DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 40


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    Time: 07:13:09 PM PST US
    From: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
    Subject: Re: Cover Wings
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net> The plans say to rivit the fabric. These planes have flown thousands of hours with this system with good results. I use a system called Hi pec or now its called endura. The fabric is glued to the ribs. I heard once the faa rules and regs don't specify rib stitching if the top speed is under 100 mph. Your choice but if in doubt go by the book. Glue the fabric to the hinges just like you are gluing it to the tubes. Don't be shy with the glue. I have not seen these little slits open up like a carps mouth but I suppose it could happen. Glad you enjoy my ramblings At 06:50 PM 12/15/02 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net> > >Woody, I am also very intersted in your rambling tips!....LOL....I am >finishing building my ailerons and will start asembling for rigging this >week. I have been thinking about covering and so on. >Do you rivet the fab to those skinny little ribs, or do you rib stich em'?? >The riveting idea does seem attractive as a time saver, but that 5/16's rib >tube seems so small that all those holes worry me. >Also, on the idea of something to prevent the scalloping, I sure link that >tip on the wrapping of the bottom fabric way around. I was trying to think >up a way to help support the dabric there and this sounds like a winner..I >had been considering using flat rib lacing across the ribs to accomplish >this, but im sire it would show, as narrow as it is. this seems like a great >idea. If you think up any more tips for us fellas about to the covering >stage..PLEASE ...ramble onward ! > >Don Gherardini >FireFly 098 >http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm > >


    Message 41


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    Time: 07:19:15 PM PST US
    From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
    Subject: can "O" worms
    SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OE, USER_IN_WHITELIST) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net> Ok Guys, By now you realize that I'm new to aviation, and ask a lot of stupid questions and so forth. But hey how else is a fellow to learn? For those of you that don't know me, I'm a biker at heart, not just your average biker, but a hard core Harley Davidson biker from way back! How far back? Try 1965 when my dad built my first motorcycle out of a bicycle and a 3hp engine from a gas powered Maytag washing machine. Yeah, they really had those way back. Anyway with what I have seen thus far, proven engines and totally experimental applications, I ponder this thought as I sit here wanting to sell of one of my bikes to get started on my Kolb. I have know idea of the weight of a Harley Davidson engine. But I would guess it to be tipping the scales at near 250lbs or higher. I do know however that the newer engines offered by HD are very reliable and produce a great amount of horsepower and gob's of torque. RPM range on my twin cam 88 is 750 to around 5000. HP is in the 90's I think. However for those who are not familiar with the HD V-Twins they are a 45 degree pushrod engine air cooled and either EFI or normally aspirated. Also in laymen's terms are like a Briggs and Stratton in the fact that they are simply, crank,rods,cam,crankcase,cylinders,heads,intake and fuel delivery all in one simple package. I ponder.... would it be possible to mount one of these engines on a Kolb? BTW I took my desk apart in the 1rst grade. The Harley Davidson EVO 80 ci is lighter and just a big 80hp v-twin. This thought comes to me after reading the post about the snowmobile engine post. Plus with some short straight 1 3/4" exhaust pipes would turn a head or two.. To much time on my hands Need to get building pp.. DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 42


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    Time: 07:39:22 PM PST US
    From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
    Subject: BTW
    SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OE, USER_IN_WHITELIST) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net> In case your interested, http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/ENG/en/new_eng_trans.asp?WebLogicSessionPf06R8qIhz0ArZmm5UoT3KrIyWGfKHo8V0ClkeYCYpoSn08dyfg9|5078166962732252838/181237815/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1|-5250543574297404224/181237784/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1&bmLocaleen_US


    Message 43


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    Time: 09:39:48 PM PST US
    From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
    Subject: Re: Engines
    --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net> Paul, I would luve to see those pics pard...if you can ..email em to me at donghe@one-eleven.net thx pard Don Gherardini Firefly 098




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