Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:07 AM - Re: Re: NGK spark plugs message of Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:56:22 -0800 (Larry Bourne)
2. 12:15 AM - Re: Interesting Engine! (Larry Bourne)
3. 12:17 AM - Re: Engines (Larry Bourne)
4. 03:59 AM - Re: turnie thingies. (Ted Cowan)
5. 05:30 AM - Re: BTW (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
6. 06:32 AM - Re: Cover Wings (ul15rhb@juno.com)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: can "O" worms (ul15rhb@juno.com)
8. 08:01 AM - engines n uppness (GeoR38@aol.com)
9. 08:43 AM - engines (Paul Petty)
10. 08:52 AM - Eliminating scalloping, or "troughing" on the wings (info)
11. 09:13 AM - Re: engines (Larry Bourne)
12. 10:06 AM - Verner comments (William George)
13. 11:26 AM - Re: engines n uppness (Jack & Louise Hart)
14. 11:32 AM - Re: Cover Wings (John Hauck)
15. 11:46 AM - Re: Eliminating scalloping, or "troughing" on the wings (John Hauck)
16. 01:39 PM - Re: Cover Wings (ul15rhb@juno.com)
17. 01:58 PM - Re: engines (Richard Pike)
18. 02:44 PM - Re: Cover Wings (John Hauck)
19. 03:13 PM - Vibration (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com)
20. 03:31 PM - Re: Vibration (John Hauck)
21. 06:32 PM - Re: engines n uppness (GeoR38@aol.com)
22. 07:09 PM - Re: Cover Wings (woody)
23. 07:09 PM - Re: engines (woody)
24. 07:28 PM - Re: Cover Wings (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: NGK spark plugs message of Sat, 14 Dec 2002 |
23:56:22 -0800
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Careful.....................you might hafta change yer handle to
"alaskashack." That country grows on you. I'm chomping at the bit to get
back up there next summer, but not even a little bit interested in the
winter. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike and Dixie Shackelford" <dixieshack@webtv.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NGK spark plugs message of Sat, 14 Dec 2002
23:56:22 -0800
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie
Shackelford)
>
> Page 7 of the Nov. Experimenter gives the scoop on NGK plugs and
> what to use in aircraft. Stock number for the correct plug is
> #3961....according to Roger Zerkle (???) even the NGK's that have the
> solid top can unscrew internally separating the threaded portion from
> the electrode...EXCEPT the above number, which has the electrode bonded
> ceramically to the plug.....or sumpin'....I agree with both Ralph and
> Shack.....don't see why you couldn't just tighten the end down with
> pliers and Loc-tite if you want added security. I saftied my wires to
> the plugs with nylon tie-wraps....if the plug wire is in place and can't
> move, the end can't possibly unscrew.
> Lordy I'm still in shock. The kids had me bring the wife to their
> house in Virginia for a surprise birthday party for her. They all got
> together and got us a round-trip flight to Juneau, Alaska. I GUESS I
> can go....wife said I could.....unless Morgan Freeman shows up first!
> Guess in that case I'd hafta hitch a ride with John on his next trip.
> We've always wanted to visit Alaska.....not the tourist traps but
> the real thing. Maybe even find a shack....who knows...?
>
> Mike in WV
> FSII
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting Engine! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Migawd ! ! ! In '61, I bought a '60 BSA Super Rocket. It had 650cc & 40
hp, and was a go-getter for its' day. Only things that ever whupped it were
a Harley Sportster and a Vincent Black Shadow............and the 1st 409
Chevy I ever saw. I got banged up a couple of times on that thing as it
was..................nearly 4 times the power would have been suicidal. I
believe you when you say they're too much bike for the kids that buy them !
! ! Awed Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <snuffy@usol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Interesting Engine!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: snuffy@usol.com
>
> I'll see if I can find out what one would cost. My son is a mechanic at
> one of Michigan's largest Yamaha dealerships. See what else I can find
> out about it. I understand it is basically the same engine as the one
> on the R1 crotch rocket motorcycle. He had one of those and it was a
> screamer. I took it out once and was over 100 mph in third when I
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Me too................please put them on photoshare.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris"
<rharris@magnolia-net.com>
>
> Paul, I for one would love to see the photos.
>
>
> Richard Harris
> MK3 N912RH
> Lewisville, Arkansas
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> >
> > Gents,
> > While on the subject I noticed that there is never any mention of HKS
> engines. Are they good/bad? I'm sold on the 912S. But like to look at
> others. At a recent fly in a man showed up in a homebuilt that looked like
a
> Kolb.Well I went over to investigate of course, and noticed he had used a
> Honda 650CBR engine mounted low next to the tail boom and had a chain
drive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: turnie thingies. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ted Cowan" <tcowan1917@direcway.com>
everyone is looking for the perfect power plant. well, possibly one is in
the making. go check out the web sites at: http://airscooter.com and
http://aerotwinmotors.com . if the figures are correct about weight, etc,
and the man is close on his projected price of $6500 available next year,
this is going to revolutionize the industry. going to be hard to beat. my
opinion. ted cowan
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi@supernet.com>
Paul Petty wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> In case your interested,
>
No Thanks! I'm afraid my wings would vibrate off :-) -- Earl
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:50:32 -0600 "Don Gherardini"
<donghe@one-eleven.net> writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini"
> <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> Woody, I am also very intersted in your rambling tips!....LOL....I
> am
> finishing building my ailerons and will start asembling for rigging
> this
> week. I have been thinking about covering and so on.
> Do you rivet the fab to those skinny little ribs, or do you rib
> stich em'??
> The riveting idea does seem attractive as a time saver, but that
> 5/16's rib
> tube seems so small that all those holes worry me.
> Also, on the idea of something to prevent the scalloping, I sure
> link that
> tip on the wrapping of the bottom fabric way around. I was trying to
> think
> up a way to help support the dabric there and this sounds like a
> winner..I
> had been considering using flat rib lacing across the ribs to
> accomplish
> this, but im sire it would show, as narrow as it is. this seems like
> a great
> idea. If you think up any more tips for us fellas about to the
> covering
> stage..PLEASE ...ramble onward !
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Don,
It isn't the fabric rivets alone that holds the covering on the ribs,
it's the polybrush too. I've seen the fabric removed from a Kolb wing and
it is glued very well to the ribs along with the riveting. I've had mine
for 16 years and there's no hint of it coming loose. The aluminum fabric
rivets and polybrush will do the job just fine.
Ralph
Original Firestar
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: can "O" worms |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Paul,
I'm a 20+ year biker too, but of the rice-burner type. I think a Harley
engine would be much too heavy for a Kolb. There may be other aircraft
where it may be considered a possibility. I've also been flying a
Firestar with a 2-stroke engine(s) for 16 years (377/447). I really don't
understand why many new Firestar builders are thinking about other
engines when there is a proven one right under their noses. The lowly
Rotax 447 is, in my opinion, a very reliable option on a Firestar or
Firefly. I love my little 447 as it is easy to maintain and inspect. It's
simplicity at its best. I'm sure there will be some very good 4-strokes
on the market soon. It would be nice if Rotax made a scaled down 40-50 hp
912 (and it would be pricey), but until that day comes, the 2-strokes we
have right now are good little engines if they are maintained and the
operators know a few things about using them.
In the past couple of years in this area, there have been 4 aircraft that
went down with engine problems. These were 4-stroke certified aircraft
engines. Having a 4-stroke engine on a aircraft does not necessarily mean
that it won't quit on you. A 2-stroke engine has about 1/3 the moving
parts of a 4-stroke. Less parts means less to go wrong. Recently a trike
pilot made a 3000 mile flight from Sun-n-Fun to LA on a 2-stroke 503. On
our list, a couple of Firestar pilots made a 4000 mile flight powered
with 2-stroke 503's. For a low-cost engine, what more does a guy want?
Ralph
Original Firestar
I'm sure the weight of a Harley engine
On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:24:35 -0600 SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OE,
USER_IN_WHITELIST) "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net> writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Ok Guys,
> By now you realize that I'm new to aviation, and ask a lot of stupid
> questions and so forth. But hey how else is a fellow to learn?
> For those of you that don't know me, I'm a biker at heart, not just
> your average biker, but a hard core Harley Davidson biker from way
> back! How far back? Try 1965 when my dad built my first motorcycle
> out of a bicycle and a 3hp engine from a gas powered Maytag washing
> machine. Yeah, they really had those way back. Anyway with what I
> have seen thus far, proven engines and totally experimental
> applications, I ponder this thought as I sit here wanting to sell of
> one of my bikes to get started on my Kolb.
> I have know idea of the weight of a Harley Davidson engine. But I
> would guess it to be tipping the scales at near 250lbs or higher.
> I do know however that the newer engines offered by HD are very
> reliable and produce a great amount of horsepower and gob's of
> torque. RPM range on my twin cam 88 is 750 to around 5000. HP is in
> the 90's I think. However for those who are not familiar with the HD
> V-Twins they are a 45 degree pushrod engine air cooled and either
> EFI or normally aspirated. Also in laymen's terms are like a Briggs
> and Stratton in the fact that they are simply,
> crank,rods,cam,crankcase,cylinders,heads,intake and fuel delivery
> all in one simple package.
> I ponder.... would it be possible to mount one of these engines on a
> Kolb?
> BTW I took my desk apart in the 1rst grade.
> The Harley Davidson EVO 80 ci is lighter and just a big 80hp
> v-twin.
> This thought comes to me after reading the post about the snowmobile
> engine post.
> Plus with some short straight 1 3/4" exhaust pipes would turn a head
> or two..
>
> To much time on my hands
>
> Need to get building
>
> pp..
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> ===============================================================
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | engines n uppness |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 12/16/02 10:33:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ul15rhb@juno.com writes:
>
> Paul,
>
> I'm a 20+ year biker too, but of the rice-burner type. I think a Harley
> engine would be much too heavy for a Kolb. There may be other aircraft
> where it may be considered a possibility. I've also been flying a
> Firestar with a 2-stroke engine(s) for 16 years (377/447). I really don't
> understand why many new Firestar builders are thinking about other
> engines when there is a proven one right under their noses. The lowly
> Rotax 447 is, in my opinion, a very reliable option on a Firestar or
> Firefly. I love my little 447 as it is easy to maintain and inspect. It's
> simplicity at its best. I'm sure there will be some very good 4-strokes
> on the market soon. It would be nice if Rotax made a scaled down 40-50 hp
> 912 (and it would be pricey), but until that day comes, the 2-strokes we
> have right now are good little engines if they are maintained and the
> operators know a few things about using them.
>
> In the past couple of years in this area, there have been 4 aircraft that
> went down with engine problems. These were 4-stroke certified aircraft
> engines. Having a 4-stroke engine on a aircraft does not necessarily mean
> that it won't quit on you. A 2-stroke engine has about 1/3 the moving
> parts of a 4-stroke. Less parts means less to go wrong. Recently a trike
> pilot made a 3000 mile flight from Sun-n-Fun to LA on a 2-stroke 503. On
> our list, a couple of Firestar pilots made a 4000 mile flight powered
> with 2-stroke 503's. For a low-cost engine, what more does a guy want?
>
> Ralph
> Original Firestar
>
I agree 100% with Ralph. I know how youn's guys LOVE the sound of a Harley
and would divorce the wife before the Harley, but the 447 is a very powerful
machine that will give you more than enough power for your Firestar or
Firefly to the extent that you cannot hold it back on the ground....I have
never been able to open the throttle all the way on the ground without losing
control of the "stopped" airplane.
Come to think of it, I even remember accidently caving in an aluminum wall
with my measely 35 HP Cuyunna engine once when I had it mounted on my
Pterodactyl. In this day and age, Paul, I really doubt if you can say that
power is a problem. Reliability might be, if you don't practice off field
landings....don't forget, you are dealing with a 3rd dimension here......up.
If not prepared, the "uppness" can kill you because it is convertible to
speed and we all know what that can do.
George Randolph
Firestar driver from Akron
ps. don't think I don't know the creativity and joy of freedom of thought
that you are going through, however, as I like to invent too even
to the extent that I wrote my own. patent for a toy.
pps the first aircraft engine weighed 200# with exhaust and mounting and put
out 12 Hp
Today, the 447 weighs around 65# and puts out 42 HP....are we talkin
progress here, or what?
ppps since uppness is THE premium in flying, THE enemy is weight...not like
on a motorcycle where friction/weight is a premium, ie friend.
Message 9
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SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OE, USER_IN_WHITELIST)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Gents,
I really expected to be run off from the list for suggesting such a ridicules idea.
But hey why not! I will post the photos of the homebuilt in photoshare this
afternoon along with the guys name and contact number. He lives in Pascagoula
MS. I don't think it's a Kolb but it could be or a spin off. At first I thought
the chain drive set up was goofy. But the more I think of it, makes some
cense. The CG is lower, cost is less, I called my local Harley dealer this morning
and he told me the 80ci EVO weighs in around 175 lb. The vibration is only
bad at a low idle. I wonder what the affects of a 45 degree 80ci V twin would
do to the flight? The sound of the thing would be awsome! Kinda like an old
stearman. Oh well .... later
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Eliminating scalloping, or "troughing" on the wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "info" <info@aircrafttechsupport.com>
Hi gang,
We have a good technique to all but eliminate the "troughing" or scalloping effect
on the wing leading edge area. (or if you want a lot of it, we can tell you
how to get it too). This is done by a very simple heat shrinking sequence.
Steve Green and several others tried this technique and were very happy with it.
Give us a call (before you glue the fabric on) and we'll walk you through it.
Thanks,
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
E-mail: info@aircrafttechsupport.com
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Just by co-incidence...............I was re-reading page 56 of the July, '02
Sport Aviation magazine this morning, and there's an item about a fella
named Mike Lecka, of Fayetteville, NC, who's installing an 80 hp/88 ci
Harley Twin Cam Model B engine into a small plane. Gives his email as
harleykitplane1@aol.com . Hmmmm...............80 hp out of 175 lb isn't
all THAT bad. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: engines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Gents,
> I really expected to be run off from the list for suggesting such a
ridicules idea. But hey why not! I will post the photos of the homebuilt in
photoshare this afternoon along with the guys name and contact number. He
lives in Pascagoula MS. I don't think it's a Kolb but it could be or a spin
off. At first I thought the chain drive set up was goofy. But the more I
think of it, makes some cense. The CG is lower, cost is less, I called my
local Harley
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com>
> From: Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:56:26 -0800
> To: Kolb-List Digest List <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 43 Msgs - 12/15/02
>
> Hi Bill/Gang:
>
> I don't understand the poor performance with the
> Verner. The Verner doesn't stack up to a Rotax
> 582 except in one area, fuel burn.
>
> May be the difference in configuration of my
> airplane with enclosed upper rear fuselage
> compared to the open rear on most other MK III's.
> When Miss P'fer was powered with the 65 hp 582 she
> cruised at 80mph true at 5800 rpm or about 75%
> power. In fact, the two most recent engine
> upgrades have not improved much over the 582. The
> 912 cruised 80 to 85 mph and the 912S cruises 85
> to 88 mph at 5,000 rpm
Hi John and Troopers,
Your airplane is obviously much cleaner and more efficient than mine. With
my half doors and open aft area I might expect that mine might even be
slower than the majority of the Mk-3s out there. But, this has nothing to do
with the Verner, or Rotax for that matter. A couple of points:
1. My performance with the Verner is virtually the same as it was with the
582 which matches your experience with the 912 vs. the 582.
2. If you cruise the 582 at 5800 rpm you are not using 75% power, its more
like 92%. Reference torque/horsepower chart for 582. "Regular" airplane
engines are usually rated to cruise at 75%. If I cruised the Verner at 92%
I'd be going a bit faster too, pretty close to Vne.
To summarize, we flog the two strokers at considerably higher percentage
power setting than we do the four strokes and this distorts the performance
comparison somewhat. Thus, cruising my 582 at 92% equals the Verner at 83%
for the same performance.
Aloha,
Bill George
Mk-3/Verner/Powerfin
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: engines n uppness |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>George Randolph
>Firestar driver from Akron
>
>ps. don't think I don't know the creativity and joy of freedom of thought
>that you are going through, however, as I like to invent too even
>to the extent that I wrote my own. patent for a toy.
>pps the first aircraft engine weighed 200# with exhaust and mounting and put
>out 12 Hp
> Today, the 447 weighs around 65# and puts out 42 HP....are we talkin
>progress here, or what?
>ppps since uppness is THE premium in flying, THE enemy is weight...not like
>on a motorcycle where friction/weight is a premium, ie friend.
>
George,
Let's be fair about this. The 447 dressed with carburetor, cooling fan and shrouds,
and exhaust system weighs considerable more than 65 pounds.
I am pleased that someone loves Rotax engines, because this love enabled me to
sell my 447. I am very happy to go to a replacement engine that weighs the same
as the dressed 447, which includes electric starter and battery, uses much
less gas, puts out more power, and a muffler so quiet that I do not have to turn
on my ANR headset, idles below 2000 rpm without complaint or vibration, and
follows the throttle without hesitation and holds a constant rpm setting in level
flight. This is progress. If the 447 had acted this way, I would not have
changed.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> It isn't the fabric rivets alone that holds the covering on the ribs,
> it's the polybrush too.
> Ralph
Hi Ralph/Gents:
Correct me if I am wrong.
There usually is some adhesion of the fabric to
the ribs with what Polybrush weeps through the
fabric. But don't bet your buns on preventing the
fabric from billowing should the fabric rivets
fail. That little bit of polybrush won't hold it.
The way I understand this stuff is the strength
comes from cohesion of fabric cemented to fabric
with Polytak and Polybrush, depending on what the
application is. We don't get cohesion from
cementing the fabric to the airframe alone.
That's called adhesion. I guess if you wrapped
more than a complete wrap around a tube and
cemented it on itself it would be cohesion.
I have never seen fabric rivets fail, but I have
seen a case of rib stitching fail on several
inboard ribs, both left and right wing panels, on
a Kolb Sling Shot. Also discovered this problem
while flying slightly above and to the rear of the
Sling Shot. The air stream really pulls the
fabric up and away from the wing rib structure.
So, do a good job covering and fastening your
fabric to those little ribs.
Losing the top fabric on a wing is disastrous.
Saw this happen to a new Great Lakes during the
airshow at Sun and Fun many years ago. Failure
was advertised by a tremendous explosion as the
fabric departed the wing. Aircraft was at aprx'ly
500 feet. Pilot flew it due west of Lakeland
Airport until he was in a relatively uninhabited
area, then jumped with his emergency parachute.
Broke a leg or ankle, but was otherwise none the
worse for wear. He was fortunate enough to be
able to hold the airplane straight and level with
full left aileron. The Great Lakes was borrowed
from the owner to do the airshow. Oops!
Take care,
john h
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Eliminating scalloping, or "troughing" on the wings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> We have a good technique to all but eliminate the "troughing" or scalloping effect
on the wing leading edge area.
> Jim & Dondi Miller
Jim/Dondi/Gents/Ladies/and everybody else:
Homer Kolb liked the shape of the covered Kolb
wing sections. If he didn't he would have stuck a
sheet metal leading edge on it.
Again, my understanding, for what it is worth and
that ain't much, was that the scalloping effect
helped keep the outboard 5 feet or so of the wings
from stalling.
I made no overt attempt to keep my wing fabric
from being pulled down between the ribs except in
the technique I use to heat shrink the fabric.
Maybe you can guess how much fun it was to recover
a wing after 8 years and try to shrink the fabric
to match the scalloping on the old wing.
Something to think about. Especially when one
hasn't done any fabric work in 8 years.
I usually start shrinking at the inboard rib
cordwise and out at the bow tip. I pull the
fabric pretty good with the iron to initially pull
the fabric span wise. Then follow the directions
in the manual.
I kinda like the scalloping effect. Looks classic
to me and it works great in the air too.
Take care,
john h
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:31:48 -0600 John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> writes:
> Hi Ralph/Gents:
>
> Correct me if I am wrong.
>
> There usually is some adhesion of the fabric to
> the ribs with what Polybrush weeps through the
> fabric. But don't bet your buns on preventing the
> fabric from billowing should the fabric rivets
> fail. That little bit of polybrush won't hold it.
>snip>
> john h
John, I think it's a combination of the aluminum rivets and the glue that
hold it together. You are right about the Polybrush not having cohesive
strength between fabric and metal, but it does hold it tight enough so
the rivets don't pull out. What does Jim & Dondi Miller have to say about
this? I don't understand how rib stitching can rip apart like that
example you mentioned. It's pretty strong isn't it? What about the
fabric covered tail sections of the B-29 and other old fighters? Were
they riveted or rib stitched?
Ralph
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@preferred.com>
Yep. About the same as a 6 cylinder Corvair engine.
Which would be a lot smoother, have a lot lower profile, and already has
been adapted to aircraft use.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Do Not Archive
At 09:12 AM 12/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>.......80 hp out of 175 lb isn't
>all THAT bad. Lar. Do not Archive.
>
>Larry Bourne
>Palm Springs, CA
>Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
>www.gogittum.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: engines
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>>
>> Gents,
>> I really expected to be run off from the list for suggesting such a
>ridicules idea. But hey why not! I will post the photos of the homebuilt in
>photoshare this afternoon along with the guys name and contact number. He
>lives in Pascagoula MS. I don't think it's a Kolb but it could be or a spin
>off. At first I thought the chain drive set up was goofy. But the more I
>think of it, makes some cense. The CG is lower, cost is less, I called my
>local Harley
>
>
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> I don't understand how rib stitching can rip apart like that
> example you mentioned. It's pretty strong isn't it? What about the
> fabric covered tail sections of the B-29 and other old fighters? Were
> they riveted or rib stitched?
>
> Ralph
Ralph/Gang:
Rib stitching is strong and was around probably
long before anyone dreamed up fabric rivets. I
think the problem lies with a incorrectly tied
knot or some problem that causes a failure in one
place and then like dominoes goes up the rib. Rib
stitching is done with a continuous piece of
thread/line/cord, whatever you call it. Maybe the
Kolb Sling Shot was not done correctly. I don't
know. The Great Lake Biplane fabric seperated for
I know not why also. :-)
john h
Message 19
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12/16/2002 05:11:59 PM,
Serialize complete at 12/16/2002 05:11:59 PM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002)
at
12/16/2002 05:12:33 PM,
Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at
12/16/2002
05:12:53 PM,
Serialize complete at 12/16/2002 05:12:53 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
I know this topic has been addressed in the past, but it bears repeating.
I seeded a new 500 foot landing strip on my farm and have been flying into
it all summer. This weekend I rolled out my Firestar, did the pre-flight,
warmed her up and taxied to my runway. I powered up and just as I was
about to lift off a violent vibration began. I was afraid the nose cone
was coming off it shook so bad. I immediately returned and did another
extensive check and found nothing. So I decided to go up again. This
time as I lifted off with vibration again, I looked down at my wheels and
they where shacking in every direction imaginable. Of course as they
slowed down and stopped , so did the vibration. The rest of the flight
was perfect. I am assuming in the summer with soft grass and soft dirt,
the vibration was absorbed. Now with the ground frozen the vibration goes
right up the axle. The moral of this story is:
Get them damn wheelbarrow bearings the heck out of your wheels!
The Flying Farmer
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> Get them damn wheelbarrow bearings the heck out of your wheels!
>
> The Flying Farmer
Dwight/Gang:
Probably not bearings but the tires you are
using. Wheelbarrow and lawn tractor tires are not
trued and balanced after they come out of the
mold. Also could have been caused by the airplane
sitting for a long period of time in one spot.
They get flat sided, especially if you live in
Yankee Land or someplace where it really gets
cold.
I used to tough the heel brakes just after take
off to stop the vibs and regain my vision. Now,
with cheap aircraft tires, I no longer have a
problem. Before I got the Air Tracs I used a
pound of lead to try and balance the 800X6 tractor
tires.
john h
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: engines n uppness |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 12/16/02 2:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbhart@ldd.net
writes:
> George,
>
> Let's be fair about this. The 447 dressed with carburetor, cooling fan and
> shrouds, and exhaust system weighs considerable more than 65 pounds.
>
> I am pleased that someone loves Rotax engines, because this love enabled me
> to sell my 447. I am very happy to go to a replacement engine that weighs
> the same as the dressed 447, which includes electric starter and battery,
> uses much less gas, puts out more power, and a muffler so quiet that I do
> not have to turn on my ANR headset, idles below 2000 rpm without complaint
> or vibration, and follows the throttle without hesitation and holds a
> constant rpm setting in level flight. This is progress. If the 447 had
> acted this way, I would not have changed.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Jackson, MO
>
>
> Jack &Louise Hart
>
Hey Jack! I never said the 447 was the ultimate engine...only that it
compared rediculessly great compared with the early aviation engines. If
yours puts out more power at the same weight, uses less gas to do it, uses a
better muffler (not a resonator that pulls more hp?) , idles at less than
2000 rpm, then I need to look into it too, provided it has a good track
record. My 447 also follows the throttle without hesitation and holds a
constant rpm in level flight. As far as the weight is concerned, you're
probably correct as I was just guessing from '92 when I built it and I was
much stronger then. :-) What engine do you use on your firestar?
George Randolph
Firestar driver from Akron, Oh
Message 22
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
At 04:43 PM 12/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
>
>
> > I don't understand how rib stitching can rip apart like that
> > example you mentioned. It's pretty strong isn't it? What about the
> > fabric covered tail sections of the B-29 and other old fighters? Were
> > they riveted or rib stitched?
I think the problem with rib stitching is that we are trying to do it
on a round tube. This will be weaker than on a flat surface as there is
less area between the needle holes and less rib material to pull down onto.
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
At 09:12 AM 12/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
>Just by co-incidence...............I was re-reading page 56 of the July, '02
>Sport Aviation magazine this morning, and there's an item about a fella
>named Mike Lecka, of Fayetteville, NC, who's installing an 80 hp/88 ci
>Harley Twin Cam Model B engine into a small plane. Gives his email as
>harleykitplane1@aol.com . Hmmmm...............80 hp out of 175 lb isn't
>all THAT bad. Lar. Do not Archive.
Yes but at what cost? Corvair is about 205 lb and 110 hp.
Message 24
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> I think the problem with rib stitching is that we are trying to do it
> on a round tube. This will be weaker than on a flat surface as there is
> less area between the needle holes and less rib material to pull down onto.
Woody
Woody/Ralph/Gents:
Don't you think the reinforcing tape is
sufficiently strong enough to get the job done?
That tape is pretty tuff!!!
I tdhink Richard Pike rib stitched his MK III or
one of his airplanes.
I rib stitched a good bit of the longerons on the
rear of my MK III fuselage. 90% of it was blind
stitching. A Hell of a way to learn rib
stitching. Never had any problem with any of that
letting go and most of that area in very near the
prop.
I think the reason we use fabric rivets rather
than rib stitching is because if is an easier,
quicker, more durable system for our purposes. I
had much rather rivet than stitch.
john h
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