Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:05 AM - (Dave Rains)
2. 04:05 AM - Re: Monument Valley Flight aka Names (Duncan McBride)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Monument Valley Flight (John Hauck)
4. 06:16 AM - Re: (John Hauck)
5. 06:35 AM - Re: monument valley (Ian Heritch)
6. 06:37 AM - Re: (Tiffany Pitra)
7. 06:47 AM - Re: (John Hauck)
8. 07:06 AM - Re: (Tiffany Pitra)
9. 08:02 AM - Re: Monument Valley Flight aka Names (Larry Bourne)
10. 08:40 AM - New books for Homebuilders (sonja.englert@juno.com)
11. 08:47 AM - kolb (boyd young)
12. 09:14 AM - gas tanks (Clay Stuart)
13. 10:02 AM - Re: gas tanks (Richard Pike)
14. 11:45 AM - Re: Gasoline (John Cooley)
15. 12:02 PM - Re: Gasoline (John Cooley)
16. 12:13 PM - Re: Gasoline (John Cooley)
17. 12:37 PM - Landing gear (John Cooley)
18. 12:44 PM - Finishing the Cage (tom sabean)
19. 01:14 PM - flight sim 2002 (D Smalec)
20. 02:02 PM - Re: flight sim 2002 (Doug Wetzel)
21. 02:57 PM - Re: Landing gear (John Hauck)
22. 03:43 PM - Re: Monument Valley Flight (WillUribe@aol.com)
23. 04:12 PM - Re: gas tanks (SGreenpg@aol.com)
24. 04:17 PM - Re: flight sim 2002 (WillUribe@aol.com)
25. 04:18 PM - Re: gas tanks (Bill Futrell)
26. 04:28 PM - Re: gas tanks (Jim Ballenger)
27. 05:32 PM - 800x6 Tires on 3" Wide Wheels??? (Tom Olenik)
28. 06:14 PM - Re: 800x6 Tires on 3" Wide Wheels??? (Cy Galley)
29. 06:15 PM - Re: gas tanks (CaptainRon)
30. 06:28 PM - Re: gas tanks (John Hauck)
31. 10:16 PM - Re: Landing gear ()
32. 10:21 PM - Re: Landing gear (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
Count me in for Monument Valley. Don't own a Kolb anymore, but got two
other planes. One interesting note, there is a grave yard right before the
threshold at Gouldings, sobering.
Dave Rains do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley Flight aka Names |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Duncan McBride <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
Down here in sub-tropical Florida, homebuilt aircraft projects suffer from
Lanai Rash.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Flight aka Names
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> This HAS made me unique, tho'....................Vamoose is the only plane
> in existence with Porch Rash. Lesser mortals have had to make do with
Hangar Rash. Do not Archive.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bob n" <ronoy@shentel.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Flight aka Names
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: bob n <ronoy@shentel.net>
> >
> > How about Ground Pounder?
> >
> > BN
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> Yes, the Canyon is something to look at and pictures don't do it justice;
> http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Page.jpg
>
> Will Uribe
Will/Gang:
There's a road off the nose of your airplane next
to the town. Looks like a good place to land.
What is the name of the town?
Are you in Mississippi now? What town?
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
One interesting note, there is a grave yard
right before the
> threshold at Gouldings, sobering.
> Dave Rains do not archive
Dave/Gents:
Same same at the south end of Tay Ninh East
airstrip. On top of that it was a PSP strip.
Slick as snot when wet. Butted up against the
graveyard wall.
Eufaula, Alabama has a nice cemetary on the NE
side of 18/36. Flown in and out of there for 30+
years and did not know the cemetary existed until
I landed there a couple weekends ago. Would not
have noticed it then, except it was pointed out to
me by my passenger as we chatted at midfield with
Miss P'fer pointing east.
Does make one a little more cautious/alert.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: monument valley |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ian Heritch" <iheritch@satx.rr.com>
Robert & Folks:
At San Antonio you should continue to follow I-10 to the west. Following US
90 to Del Rio and Sanderson will take you to a very desolate desert-like
area. I-10 is also desert, but not nearly as desolate. Good BBQ all along
the route.
Ian Heritch
San Antonio, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Laird" <rlaird@cavediver.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: monument valley
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
>
> John --
>
> Not to sound ungrateful for your sage advice... but there's a lot of us
> aren't retired/rich-as-sin or otherwise have all the time in the world to
> get someplace. I need to map it out ahead of time, and try to not only
> find routes that aren't too high, but routes that get me there as
> millipede-speedy as an ultralight can be.
>
> I, too, am wondering the best "southern" route to get to Monument
> Valley. (I say "southern" -- meaning southern New Mexico -- because my
> first looks makes the southern route LOOK like it's all mostly lower
> altitudes. Ok, ok, maybe not LOWER altitudes, but not-so-high altitudes.)
>
> My first inclination is to follow (roughly) Interstate 10 to San Antonio,
> then U.S. Hwy 90 through Del Rio (dancing around the air force base),
> Sanderson, Alpine, then at Van Horn get back on I-10 West. From there it
> seems like following I-25 up to Albuquerque would be okay, then I-40 west
> to around Gallup, NM, then north along 666 (keeps you east of a mountain
> range) which will take you to Shiprock. Then, rather than follow 64 to
the
> west, go a little north to the San Juan River (I'll bet it's beautiful)
and
> follow it to the Four Corners area. Where 160 intersects the San Juan
> River, turn directly west, and 66 miles later, you're landing at Gould's.
>
> I did all that with a road map. I'll have to run that route with a
> sectional to see how many Restricted areas I might violate <g> but I think
> that route keeps me near civilization, and out of the 7000'+ mountains.
>
> Anyway, it just SEEMS like auto roads are going to -- in general -- follow
> the least steep mountains, the lowest passes, etc, just like we'd want to.
>
> Any comments about that route?
>
> Also, I'll be going from sea level to 6,000 - 7,000 feet... is there
> anything I should do to prepare my plane for that? Should I bring
> "high-altitude" jets for my carb?
>
> -- Robert
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Tiffany Pitra <tif_qtra@yahoo.com>
I think maybe you chase the momason that I use to.I was a door gunner in the 190
assalt helcopter co .We would fly 9 arvn out of tay ninh east.68,69,70. qtra
John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck
One interesting note, there is a grave yard
right before the
> threshold at Gouldings, sobering.
> Dave Rains do not archive
Dave/Gents:
Same same at the south end of Tay Ninh East
airstrip. On top of that it was a PSP strip.
Slick as snot when wet. Butted up against the
graveyard wall.
Eufaula, Alabama has a nice cemetary on the NE
side of 18/36. Flown in and out of there for 30+
years and did not know the cemetary existed until
I landed there a couple weekends ago. Would not
have noticed it then, except it was pointed out to
me by my passenger as we chatted at midfield with
Miss P'fer pointing east.
Does make one a little more cautious/alert.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> I think maybe you chase the momason that I use to.
I was on Nui Bad Den Spring and Summer 1966.
Spent a lot of time trying to hitch hike from Tay
Ninh East to the mountain. Especially when I had
fresh chow for CIDG or frozen chow from Commissary
in Cholon. Was always a challenge.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Tiffany Pitra <tif_qtra@yahoo.com>
We lost one uh-1h off the top of nui bad den in 69. I use chase babys at kim lan
bar in Cholon.We have are next reuon at ft Rucker in june.It has been 30 yrs.It
seem so long ago. qtra
John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com> wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck
> I think maybe you chase the momason that I use to.
I was on Nui Bad Den Spring and Summer 1966.
Spent a lot of time trying to hitch hike from Tay
Ninh East to the mountain. Especially when I had
fresh chow for CIDG or frozen chow from Commissary
in Cholon. Was always a challenge.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley Flight aka Names |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I gotta share the limelight, AGAIN ??? Aw, Denny. Actually, mine isn't
all that bad, just needs a touch-up brush. Hope yours is the same. Bob
Bean sent me a pic of his home in New York yesterday. Brrrrrrr. This is
when I do appreciate Palm Springs. Temps are in the high 70's, clear blue
sunny skies. Yessssss. Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Flight aka Names
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> Lar,
> I regret to inform you that Vamoose is not the only plane with porch rash,
> my wings and control surfaces are wintering on my front porch. Put them up
> there the day I finished painting, put the awnings up and BAM! the temps
> have not got above 40 degrees since. And it also seems like the wind has
> been blowing 50mph since. If those awnings tear, I'll be in a world of
> hurt.
> This has been the worst fall and early winter I have seen in years. I
have
> already burnt more wood than I did all last winter.
>
> Denny (freezing my tail off} Rowe
>
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Bourne <biglar@gogittum.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Flight aka Names
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
> >
> > This HAS made me unique, tho'....................Vamoose is the only
plane
> > in existence with Porch Rash. Lesser mortals have had to make do with
> > Hangar Rash. Do not Archive.
> >
> > Larry Bourne
> > Palm Springs, CA
> > Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
> > www.gogittum.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bob n" <ronoy@shentel.net>
> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Flight aka Names
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: bob n <ronoy@shentel.net>
> > >
> > > How about Ground Pounder?
> > >
> > > BN
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | New books for Homebuilders |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: sonja.englert@juno.com
Hi everyone,
I would like to introduce myself to this group. I am an aeronautical engineer,
pilot, airplane homebuilder and writer. I have written 3 new books for airplane
homebuilders, which you can check out on my web page www.caroengineering.com.
They are mainly for airplane homebuilders, but should be of interest to anyone
who wants to install engines, work with composites or flight test an airplane.
Cheers,
Sonja Englert
www.caroengineering.com
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
larry
weekends.... late nights.... early mornings....loooooooong lunch....
could it be ready for monument valley?
inquireing minds want to know
boyd
do not archive
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Trying to design aluminum gas tanks for my Mark IIIXtra. My plan is to make two
tanks approximately 13" high x 9.5" deep x 17" front width tapering to 13" rear
width. Each tank would hold 8 gallons and could be slipped in without cutting
any of the fuselage members. I will do a cardboard mockup first to make
certain. I will have tabs welded onto each tank that would join the tanks after
placement, but with enough separation to straddle the aileron torque tube.
Now for some help- what about lower feeds from the gas tanks to a gascolator?
Any water should settle out of the tanks into the gascolator and would be drained
on the pre-flight. Would you T the tanks together before the gasolator?
If the T is above the gascolator, could I get by with a filler on one tank and
let the other tank fill throught the T? Another option might be to have separate
feeds to the gascolator and a U-connector between the tanks, but that would
involve two more openings in the tank. Would a gascolator with two separate
feeds allow the tanks to equalize or should I have fillers on both tanks. I
assume that I should top-vent each tank with the tubes exiting below the tanks.
Thanks for you input and thanks to Travis Brown at Kolb today for his friendly
help,
Clay Stuart
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
What about a U connector between the tanks of a larger than usual diameter
tubing, something like at least 3/8" or so? Years ago I was a lineboy, and
the old Aero Commander 500's had only one filler opening to feed both wing
tanks, one wing tank in each wing, and you could grow old waiting for that
thing to cross bleed on a top off.
If in the middle of the U, you had a metal section, you could
braze/weld/solder in a 1/4" pipe to tap off to the gascolator and save any
extra holes in your tanks?
If it was me, I would go to Lowes, pick out some of those small size copper
fittings & elbows that would be easy to adapt to your U and then tap off
from the copper to the gascolator and then size the rubber tubing and tank
outlets to match.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 12:13 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
>
>Trying to design aluminum gas tanks for my Mark IIIXtra. My plan is to make
>two tanks approximately 13" high x 9.5" deep x 17" front width tapering to
>13" rear width. Each tank would hold 8 gallons and could be slipped in
>without cutting any of the fuselage members. I will do a cardboard mockup
>first to make certain. I will have tabs welded onto each tank that would
>join the tanks after placement, but with enough separation to straddle the
>aileron torque tube.
>
>Now for some help- what about lower feeds from the gas tanks to a
>gascolator? Any water should settle out of the tanks into the gascolator
>and would be drained on the pre-flight. Would you T the tanks together
>before the gasolator? If the T is above the gascolator, could I get by with
>a filler on one tank and let the other tank fill throught the T? Another
>option might be to have separate feeds to the gascolator and a U-connector
>between the tanks, but that would involve two more openings in the tank.
>Would a gascolator with two separate feeds allow the tanks to equalize or
>should I have fillers on both tanks. I assume that I should top-vent each
>tank with the tubes exiting below the tanks.
>
>Thanks for you input and thanks to Travis Brown at Kolb today for his
>friendly help,
>
>Clay Stuart
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Brother Beauford / Gang,
This is absolutately false. I can't speak for others but we don't use any
alcohol in any grade of our gasoline blending in Pascagoula, Ms. Not sure
about finding the info on components used. I would think that if anything
other than a petrolum product is used, such as ethanol, it has to be posted
on the pump.
Take Care,
John Cooley
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford Tuton"
<beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Brother Cooley:
> Thanks for the interesting rundown on the blending process... good info.
> One question, if I may; AMOCO gas and the ethanol issue...
> The folklore is that AMOCO still blends its' premium gas without
alcohol...
> and that they are currently the only refiners doing so... Is this true?
Is
> there anyplace on the web a person can go to get a good rundown of who
> blends what in their gas?
>
> Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with us...
> Beauford, the aluminum butcher of Brandon, FL
> FF-076
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gasoline
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
> >
> > Hi Will / Gang,
> > I usually try not to comment on gas questions, but on this one I felt I
> > needed to. Kind of self defense I guess. I work in a large 300,000
barrel
> > per day Chevron oil refinery in the Blending & Shipping section where
gas
> is
> > blended and loaded on trucks, ships and barges along with many other
> > activities. We are in the top three or so volume wise of product loaded
> > across the water and blend thousands of barrels of gas a day (can get
the
> > average numbers if needed). It is also shipped up a major pipeline
system
> > that goes all the way up the east coast. I can't speak for all
refinery's
> > but when we are blending a tank of gas there are no additives added to
> help
> > boost octane. Different components or cuts from the crude oil have
varying
> > octane properties and different crudes yield different amounts of the
> > components. Also there are different refining methods which yield higher
> > octane components or more components that I don't have the experience or
> > space to go into here. We have a very stringent set of guidelines that
> have
> > to be met in order to sell any tank of gas. We have online analyzers to
> > assist in making sure it is ontest but the major piece of equipment used
> for
> > the octane rating is a set of engines that is used industry wide called
> > Comoc engines. They have to be certified accurate by a trained
technician
> > using a gasoline with a known octane rating. When we blend a tank of gas
> the
> > engines are being fed a steady stream of the gas being blended. The
> average
> > of the entire blend has to meet the specification of the gas being
> blended.
> > We currently blend 87 octane unleaded and 93 octane supreme and these
two
> > are mixed at a ratio to make the Plus grade gas with 89 octane. We also
> > blend 100/130 avgas but that's a different ballgame all together. The
gas
> we
> > sell is sold from the average results from these engines. If it meets
the
> > octane specification for the grade being blended then nothing else is
done
> > for octane. We have a fully staffed Lab and there are many other
> > specifications that have to be certified by them before the gas can be
> sold.
> > If the average octane number is low, then a correction will be made to
the
> > tank of gas and the Lab has to run what we refer to as "manual motors"
to
> > establish the octane rating for that tank of gas. This is simply an
> average
> > sample of the gas after the correction has been added to the tank, mixed
> > thoroughly and run on a set of Comoc engines at the Lab.
> > After all this the gas is either loaded on trucks, ships, barges or
sent
> > up the pipeline system. I have heard people many times swear that they
> > wouldn't use a certain brand gas etc., but the fact is all gas comes
from
> > crude oil. We load gas on other major brands trucks, ships and barges.
In
> > other words you may be burning Exxon gas that was blended in a Chevron
or
> BP
> > refinery etc. The difference in the different brands is the additive
> package
> > they use. Normally this is advertised as making your engine run cleaner
> etc.
> > Don't know what everyone else calls their additive, but the Chevron
> additive
> > is Techron. At our truck rack we have several different additive tanks
for
> > the different company's loading gas. The trucks have a card key that is
> > inserted in a computer system and this tells the system what additive to
> add
> > while the gas is being loaded onto the truck. All the gas loaded on
ships
> > and barges has the additive added elsewhere. I would like to emphasize
> again
> > that I'm not a spokesperson for the industry. This is the basic method
> used
> > in our refinery.
> > Sorry this got so long winded.
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > Take Care,
> > John Cooley
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
> >
> >
> > > I have been told the petroleum companies add additives to get a higher
> > octane
> > > ratings.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
List Members,
I very sorry for the spelling errors in this post. I normally type a
response as fast as possible without concern about the spelling. I have my
spell check set to check my emails before they are sent. For some reason
this one left my computer when I hit the send button and didn't do a spell
check. Again I apologize. It should have read:
Brother Beauford / Gang,
This is absolutely false. I can't speak for others but we don't use any
alcohol in any grade of our gasoline blending in Pascagoula, Ms. Not sure
about finding the info on components used. I would think that if anything
other than a petroleum product is used, such as ethanol, it has to be posted
on the pump.
"do not archive"
Humble John
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
>
>
> Brother Beauford / Gang,
> This is absolutately false. I can't speak for others but we don't use any
> alcohol in any grade of our gasoline blending in Pascagoula, Ms. Not sure
> about finding the info on components used. I would think that if anything
> other than a petrolum product is used, such as ethanol, it has to be
posted
> on the pump.
>
> Take Care,
> John Cooley
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford Tuton"
> <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
> >
> > Brother Cooley:
> > Thanks for the interesting rundown on the blending process... good info.
> > One question, if I may; AMOCO gas and the ethanol issue...
> > The folklore is that AMOCO still blends its' premium gas without
> alcohol...
> > and that they are currently the only refiners doing so... Is this true?
> Is
> > there anyplace on the web a person can go to get a good rundown of who
> > blends what in their gas?
> >
> > Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with us...
> > Beauford, the aluminum butcher of Brandon, FL
> > FF-076
> > Do Not Archive
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gasoline
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
> > >
> > > Hi Will / Gang,
> > > I usually try not to comment on gas questions, but on this one I felt
I
> > > needed to. Kind of self defense I guess. I work in a large 300,000
> barrel
> > > per day Chevron oil refinery in the Blending & Shipping section where
> gas
> > is
> > > blended and loaded on trucks, ships and barges along with many other
> > > activities. We are in the top three or so volume wise of product
loaded
> > > across the water and blend thousands of barrels of gas a day (can get
> the
> > > average numbers if needed). It is also shipped up a major pipeline
> system
> > > that goes all the way up the east coast. I can't speak for all
> refinery's
> > > but when we are blending a tank of gas there are no additives added to
> > help
> > > boost octane. Different components or cuts from the crude oil have
> varying
> > > octane properties and different crudes yield different amounts of the
> > > components. Also there are different refining methods which yield
higher
> > > octane components or more components that I don't have the experience
or
> > > space to go into here. We have a very stringent set of guidelines that
> > have
> > > to be met in order to sell any tank of gas. We have online analyzers
to
> > > assist in making sure it is ontest but the major piece of equipment
used
> > for
> > > the octane rating is a set of engines that is used industry wide
called
> > > Comoc engines. They have to be certified accurate by a trained
> technician
> > > using a gasoline with a known octane rating. When we blend a tank of
gas
> > the
> > > engines are being fed a steady stream of the gas being blended. The
> > average
> > > of the entire blend has to meet the specification of the gas being
> > blended.
> > > We currently blend 87 octane unleaded and 93 octane supreme and these
> two
> > > are mixed at a ratio to make the Plus grade gas with 89 octane. We
also
> > > blend 100/130 avgas but that's a different ballgame all together. The
> gas
> > we
> > > sell is sold from the average results from these engines. If it meets
> the
> > > octane specification for the grade being blended then nothing else is
> done
> > > for octane. We have a fully staffed Lab and there are many other
> > > specifications that have to be certified by them before the gas can be
> > sold.
> > > If the average octane number is low, then a correction will be made to
> the
> > > tank of gas and the Lab has to run what we refer to as "manual motors"
> to
> > > establish the octane rating for that tank of gas. This is simply an
> > average
> > > sample of the gas after the correction has been added to the tank,
mixed
> > > thoroughly and run on a set of Comoc engines at the Lab.
> > > After all this the gas is either loaded on trucks, ships, barges or
> sent
> > > up the pipeline system. I have heard people many times swear that they
> > > wouldn't use a certain brand gas etc., but the fact is all gas comes
> from
> > > crude oil. We load gas on other major brands trucks, ships and barges.
> In
> > > other words you may be burning Exxon gas that was blended in a Chevron
> or
> > BP
> > > refinery etc. The difference in the different brands is the additive
> > package
> > > they use. Normally this is advertised as making your engine run
cleaner
> > etc.
> > > Don't know what everyone else calls their additive, but the Chevron
> > additive
> > > is Techron. At our truck rack we have several different additive tanks
> for
> > > the different company's loading gas. The trucks have a card key that
is
> > > inserted in a computer system and this tells the system what additive
to
> > add
> > > while the gas is being loaded onto the truck. All the gas loaded on
> ships
> > > and barges has the additive added elsewhere. I would like to emphasize
> > again
> > > that I'm not a spokesperson for the industry. This is the basic method
> > used
> > > in our refinery.
> > > Sorry this got so long winded.
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > Take Care,
> > > John Cooley
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have been told the petroleum companies add additives to get a
higher
> > > octane
> > > > ratings.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Don, Bob and Gang,
Sorry to be this long responding to your questions. I've been on night shift
the past couple of nights and haven't made time to respond.
All gasoline has to meet a recognized set of standards. These are regulated
by API (American Petroleum Institute) see this link
http://api-ec.api.org/aboutapi/index.cfm?bitmask=001010001000000000 and ASTM
(American Society for Testing and Materials) Most of the current testing
methods in use have been developed by ASTM. Check this link for more info
http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/ABOUT/aboutASTM.html?L+mystore+elby
7771+1042674481
The recipes are not mandated. Each company can use whatever recipe they
choose as long as the finished product meets the industry standard specs.
These "recipes" will vary depending on the type of crude oils being
distilled and the type of "reforming" processes used to make higher
quality/octane components. We sample our component rundown tanks on a
regular basis and the info is feed into a computer program. When we get
ready to blend for example a blend of 93 octane supreme then the required
info is fed into the computer system and based on the components available a
recipe is developed. Some of the criteria that the computer program uses to
determine the recipe is also determined by the time of year and the RVP
requirements (Reid Vapor Pressure) for the season. We make gasoline with 5
different RVP values depending on the time of season and the place that the
fuel is going. We make a special low vapor pressure gasoline for the Atlanta
area in the summer and the other grades are known as summer grade,
intermediate grade, transition grade and winter grade RVP. The major
difference in these fuels are the vapor pressure only. We have cutoff dates
that we must meet when selling these various grades of gasoline. In other
words after a certain date we can no longer sell winter grade gas. It has to
be transition grade and so on. Of course summer grade has the lowest RVP
value because of the season and so forth. Most of our fuel either goes to
the Florida panhandle, Tampa, Port Everglades area via barges and ships and
up the east coast via pipeline. Our average barrels per day of gasoline
blended is 129,000 BPD.
The additive packages are formulated by the major players making gas. They
are primary a cleaner for fuel injectors etc. I don't know the particulars
of getting it approved for use but am sure that it has to be approved by a
governing body. The Chevron additive is know as "Techron". I don't know what
Exxon, Shell etc call theirs. Techron is injected into the gas as it's
loaded at our truck rack for the local market. We also have Exxon's additive
for trucks picking up gas to go to the Exxon stations and a generic additive
for the other brands. This is handled by the Marketing folks, which is a
separate organization within the Chevron/Texaco company. No additive is put
into the fuel going on ships and barges or up the pipeline system. This is
done later on at the final destination.
Again I will repeat what I said in my first post about gasoline. I don't
want people getting mad because they are buying Exxon gas that may have
actually been blended in a Chevron refinery. All gasoline has to meet
minimum industry requirements. The requirement is the same for Exxon as it
is for Chevron, Shell etc. If you are buying Exxon you are still getting
their additive package. I will add this bit of info to chew on. Some
companies blend gasoline to meet the minimum requirement. If it is supposed
to be 93 octane supreme, then the gas is blended to meet the 93 octane
minimum requirement. If the octane is 93.9 then that is known as "give-away"
or blending "fat" because you have to use higher quality/octane components
which of course are more valuable. If you want the most profit possible and
you have the equipment to control with then it makes sense to try to hit the
93 minimum as close as possible. Some companies will blend gasoline straight
onto a ship and therefore are willing to have some "give-away" to make sure
it is on-test. I think this is the reason some people say a particular brand
of gas runs better than another.
The reformulated gas referred to in Don's post just has to meet more
stringent guidelines as I understand it. I believe this is currently for
the California market. We don't make reformulated gas at this time or any
gas with alcohol in it.
Ok guys, as Paul Petty asked me in an earlier post, I'm out of gas.
Take Care,
John Cooley
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> John,
> Very informative post, and thankyou very much ! Maybe you can help me with
> some info that has bet put forward to me in my biz. (I am a sales rep or
an
> engine manufacturer) In the engine biz, gasoline questions come up very
> often!
> Do I understand that ALL the gasoline sold in the united states at retail
> must conform to the standards regulated by the US government?,, and that
in
> the formulas for making gasoline, there are mandated "recipies" that all
> refineries must use as mandated?
> Any additive packages requested by a "retailing company" must be from the
> approved list?
>
> I have believed that gasoline is similiar to prescription drugs, and no
> matter what the brand label, there are only certain recipies and
ingredients
> that may be used.
>
> About the only thing I know for sure, is that in the mandated
:"reformulated
> gas areas" the gasoline is indeed changed from a summer blend to a winter
> blend according to law, and that can cause starting problems if you use a
> summer "reformulated gasoline" in the winter. I believe it has to do with
> reed vapor pressures and outside air temps which cause the gasoline in low
> compression ratio 4 strokes(8 to 1)to be very hard to start.
> I am not sure that this would be the case with a 2 cycle, as they usually
> are of a higher compression ratio and might work on it.
>
> Your info might make me more(or less) confidant in believing what I think
I
> know!!!!!
>
> Don Gherardini
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
John Hauck / Gang,
I know John has a lot of experience in the area of this question. I welcome
any and all responses. As most of you know I purchased Jeremy Casey's
uncompleted Mark III. Before buying Jeremy's plane I had been considering
buying Bill Griffin's uncompleted kit which has the same modifications as
John's plane but he had sold it already. I love the manly looking high
stance of John's plane and all Slingshot's. John, please tell Ms Pfer that's
not an insult. She's purty even if she is a little manly looking. Anyway
here's my question, Can the stock Mark III be put on gear legs similar to
the slingshot without doing all the extra stuff John did to his plane. Maybe
not quite as high as the Slingshot, but enough that it's not squatty
looking. I know the angle of bend in the legs would have to be different and
the legs heat treated etc. Is there any other reason it wouldn't work?
Thanks,
John Cooley
Message 18
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| Subject: | Finishing the Cage |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: tom sabean <sabean@ns.sympatico.ca>
Listers...
I am getting ready to cover/finish the cage of my Mark111Xtra and lets
just say the plans are quite sparse in that area. Does anyone have any
pictures or links to builders sites that show how the sheet aluminum is
attached at the rear of the cage? Also, looking for pictures of how the
fiberglass piece at the front of the gap seal is mounted. While I'm at
it, how about how the doors are attached and are there any secrets to
attaching the nose cone.
All help appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom Sabean
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "D Smalec" <dsmald@michonline.net>
Group:
A while back someone mentioned a Kolb add on for Microsoft Flight Simulator
2002. Can someone send me the url or file for this?
Thanks!
Darren, FSI Central MI.
dsmald@michonline.net
Do not archive
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Doug Wetzel <dougwe@wrq.com>
If there is one, please post the URL here, I'd like it too. Thanks!!
Doug Wetzel
Seattle, WA
206-217-7862
mailto:dougwe@wrq.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of D Smalec
Subject: Kolb-List: flight sim 2002
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "D Smalec" <dsmald@michonline.net>
Group:
A while back someone mentioned a Kolb add on for Microsoft Flight Simulator
2002. Can someone send me the url or file for this?
Thanks!
Darren, FSI Central MI.
dsmald@michonline.net
Do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> Is there any other reason it wouldn't work?
>
> Thanks,
> John Cooley
John/Gang:
The major reason, besides hard landings, that the
MK III has a bad reputation for bent landing gear
legs is the fact that the angle of the leg coming
out of the fuselage is very flat. To lengthen the
legs to get some fuselage height and a nice 3
point stance just won't work. We got away with it
on the Firestar and it worked out perfect. Really
changed the looks of the airplane on the ground.
It also did nice 3 point landings.
As far as I know there is only one other MK III
that has the Miss P'fer look. Dave Patrick, here
in my area, bought Bill Griffin's MK III.
john h
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
John,
The road you see is the airport at Page, AZ
Yes, I'm still in Mississippi just arrived in Laurel.
Regards,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Flight
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
>
>
> > Yes, the Canyon is something to look at and pictures don't do it justice;
>
> > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Page.jpg
> >
> > Will Uribe
>
> Will/Gang:
>
> There's a road off the nose of your airplane next
> to the town.=A0 Looks like a good place to land.
> What is the name of the town?
>
> Are you in Mississippi now?=A0 What town?
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: SGreenpg@aol.com
In a message dated 1/15/03 12:15:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tcstuart@adelphia.net writes:
> . Would you T the tanks together before the gasolator? If the T is above
> the gascolator, could I get by with a filler on one tank and let the other
> tank fill throught the T?
Clay,
Mine is a single fuel tank but I have two outlets because of the channel over
the aileron torque tube. I made my gascolator with two inlets so that even
fuel passing from one side to the other has an opportunity to drop the water
in the colator. If you use a two tank setup and one filler you would be
flowing fuel through the gascolator as it fills the other tank. That would
be good but you would need a gascolator with about 1/2" inlets.
Steven G.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: flight sim 2002 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
<A HREF"http://surclaro.com/nuke/html/download.php?opviewdownload&cid4&min20&orderbydateD&show10">Click
here: SurClaro FlightSim Downloads & Resources : Download
Description: FS2000/FS2002 - Flight Simulator 2002 Firestar Ultralight v1.3.
Features Panel, Sound, and Animated parts. Includes land and float plane
Versions. This Version adds gauges to the virtual cockpit view, and some
other minor improvements.
Check out SurClaro FlightSim Downloads & Resources : Download
http://surclaro.com/nuke/html/download.php?opviewdownload&cid4&min20&
orderbydateD&show10
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
=A0
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Wetzel" <dougwe@wrq.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: flight sim 2002
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Doug Wetzel <dougwe@wrq.com>
>
> If there is one, please post the URL here, I'd like it too.=A0 Thanks!!
>
> Doug Wetzel
> Seattle, WA
> 206-217-7862
> mailto:dougwe@wrq.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of D Smalec
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: flight sim 2002
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "D Smalec" <dsmald@michonline.net>
>
> Group:
>A while back someone mentioned a Kolb add on for Microsoft Flight
Simulator
> 2002. Can someone send me the url or file for this?
> Thanks!
> Darren, FSI Central MI.
> dsmald@michonline.net
> Do not archive
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bill Futrell" <Bill-Jo@prodigy.net>
Clay I would be interested in the tank set-up if you can get it in
there without cutting the frame. I think they would have to rest on the tank
mounting frame that is in the plane. With Tabs welded on so they could be
bolted together is a good idea. You would need a support around the tanks
that would bolt to he cage also.
If it was me I would have the feed lines coming from the bottom of the
tanks to a T and then to the facet pump and then to a gascolator. The
gascolator would have the drain line on it to drain any water you may get
before each flight. Then I go from there to a in- line filter. I would vent
the tanks from the top out to the r/r behind the cage. I have mine vented
out just under the prop below the boom tube. If you run the line from the
tanks to a t-fitting before the pump and gascolator they will always
equalize from one tank to the other.
Let me know what a tank set up like this is going to cost you.
Thanks Bill FutrellOriginal Message -----
From: Clay Stuart <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: gas tanks
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
>
> Trying to design aluminum gas tanks for my Mark IIIXtra. My plan is to
make two tanks approximately 13" high x 9.5" deep x 17" front width tapering
to 13" rear width. Each tank would hold 8 gallons and could be slipped in
without cutting any of the fuselage members. I will do a cardboard mockup
first to make certain. I will have tabs welded onto each tank that would
join the tanks after placement, but with enough separation to straddle the
aileron torque tube.
>
> Now for some help- what about lower feeds from the gas tanks to a
gascolator? Any water should settle out of the tanks into the gascolator
and would be drained on the pre-flight. Would you T the tanks together
before the gasolator? If the T is above the gascolator, could I get by with
a filler on one tank and let the other tank fill throught the T? Another
option might be to have separate feeds to the gascolator and a U-connector
between the tanks, but that would involve two more openings in the tank.
Would a gascolator with two separate feeds allow the tanks to equalize or
should I have fillers on both tanks. I assume that I should top-vent each
tank with the tubes exiting below the tanks.
>
> Thanks for you input and thanks to Travis Brown at Kolb today for his
friendly help,
>
> Clay Stuart
>
>
Message 26
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot@cavtel.net>
Clay
I to am building a MK3X. I have almost completed the wing kit and will
order kit 2 in the near future. I am most interested in the gas tanks you
are building. Are you going to have baffles in the tanks or is there a need
for it? Please keep me informed on how it turns out.
Thanks
Jim Ballenger
Flying a FS KXP 447
Building a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: gas tanks
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
>
> Trying to design aluminum gas tanks for my Mark IIIXtra. My plan is to
make two tanks approximately 13" high x 9.5" deep x 17" front width tapering
to 13" rear width. Each tank would hold 8 gallons and could be slipped in
without cutting any of the fuselage members. I will do a cardboard mockup
first to make certain. I will have tabs welded onto each tank that would
join the tanks after placement, but with enough separation to straddle the
aileron torque tube.
>
> Now for some help- what about lower feeds from the gas tanks to a
gascolator? Any water should settle out of the tanks into the gascolator
and would be drained on the pre-flight. Would you T the tanks together
before the gasolator? If the T is above the gascolator, could I get by with
a filler on one tank and let the other tank fill throught the T? Another
option might be to have separate feeds to the gascolator and a U-connector
between the tanks, but that would involve two more openings in the tank.
Would a gascolator with two separate feeds allow the tanks to equalize or
should I have fillers on both tanks. I assume that I should top-vent each
tank with the tubes exiting below the tanks.
>
> Thanks for you input and thanks to Travis Brown at Kolb today for his
friendly help,
>
> Clay Stuart
>
>
Message 27
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"Powerchutes@Yahoogroups. Com" <powerchutes@yahoogroups.com>,
"FreePPC@yahoogroups. com" <FreePPC@yahoogroups.com>,
"Eaa860@Yahoogroups. Com" <eaa860@yahoogroups.com>,
"Engines-Ul@Yahoogroups. Com" <engines-ul@yahoogroups.com>,
"Kolb-List@Matronics. Com" <kolb-list@matronics.com>,
"UltralightTrikes@yahoogroups. com" <UltralightTrikes@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | 800x6 Tires on 3" Wide Wheels??? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation@buyitsellitfixit.com>
Hi guys,
I was wondering if anyone out there has run the 800x6 Titan Turf Glide
"Tundra" tire on the fairly narrow 3" wide wheels. I have been using the 4"
wide Azusa wheels which works just fine, but I would sort of like to use the
Zytel wheels to lighten it up and they only come in 3" wide. If you have
run them on the 3" wide aluminum wheels, I would like to hear about it as
well since those are the same dimensions as the Zytel wheels. I know it
will fit and inflate on that wheel because I have done it, but has anyone
flown with that combination? My only concern is that the tire bead might
pop off the wheel on a hard landing.
Thanks,
Tom Olenik
Olenik Aviation
http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 800x6 Tires on 3" Wide Wheels??? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
How would that happen? Most tire beads, the edge of the tire opening has a
steel bead. It won't expands so the tire would have a very hard time coming
off as long as the beads are forced out on the wheel flange be air pressure.
Tubeless tires sometimes are deflated by sliding sideways. You would more
like to have a ground loop by that time so that a tire problem would be the
least of your worries.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation@buyitsellitfixit.com>
"Powerchutes@Yahoogroups. Com" <powerchutes@yahoogroups.com>;
"FreePPC@yahoogroups. com" <FreePPC@yahoogroups.com>; "Eaa860@Yahoogroups.
Com" <eaa860@yahoogroups.com>; "Engines-Ul@Yahoogroups. Com"
<engines-ul@yahoogroups.com>; "Kolb-List@Matronics. Com"
<kolb-list@matronics.com>; "UltralightTrikes@yahoogroups. com"
<UltralightTrikes@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: 800x6 Tires on 3" Wide Wheels???
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Olenik"
<olenik-aviation@buyitsellitfixit.com>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I was wondering if anyone out there has run the 800x6 Titan Turf Glide
> "Tundra" tire on the fairly narrow 3" wide wheels. I have been using the
4"
> wide Azusa wheels which works just fine, but I would sort of like to use
the
> Zytel wheels to lighten it up and they only come in 3" wide. If you have
> run them on the 3" wide aluminum wheels, I would like to hear about it as
> well since those are the same dimensions as the Zytel wheels. I know it
> will fit and inflate on that wheel because I have done it, but has anyone
> flown with that combination? My only concern is that the tire bead might
> pop off the wheel on a hard landing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Olenik
> Olenik Aviation
> http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com
>
>
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
1/15/03 17:29Jim Ballenger
> I am most interested in the gas tanks you
> are building. Are you going to have baffles in the tanks or is there a need
> for it?
===================
I just got kit number two. I looked at the plastic tanks 2 of them. No need
for baffles on the factory set up. They are fairly narrow sitting upright,
so sloshing and unporting should not be a concern.
I am following this with interest as well, I think I may opt to install a
custom 15 gallon tank. The Hirth on a full head of steam will give me about
2 hours on 15 gallons. The 10 gallon factory set up is not enough for any
serious cross country flying. I see no problem in cutting the guide rods
that hold the tanks in place, they do not seem to serve any stractural
purpose. One big tank would do just fine. I think uncle Hauck has a larger
tank in his bird. Can't remember the capacity though.
Message 30
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> One big tank would do just fine. I think uncle Hauck has a larger
> tank in his bird. Can't remember the capacity though.
Ron/Gang:
25 gal usable, baffled, vented out the bottom of
the fuselage, drained from the lowest point
(center rear), sight gauge, .050 5052 aluminum,
finger strainer, homemade water seperator and fuel
shut off valve.
Originally designed for the 582 installation, 5 to
5.5 gph. Worked great with the 912, 4 gph. Still
working well with the 912S, 5 gph. Can't run the
tank dry on cross countries without going down. I
get uncomfortable when mine gets down to 12.5
gal. I like lots of fuel. If I have lots of
fuel, when I screw up at least I have more time to
try and figure out how to get out of my jam before
the engine gets quiet.
john h
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
John and others,
Would taller tires help raise the Mk-3 up into a little more aggressive
stance?
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing gear
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
>
>
> > Is there any other reason it wouldn't work?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John Cooley
>
> John/Gang:
>
> The major reason, besides hard landings, that the
> MK III has a bad reputation for bent landing gear
> legs is the fact that the angle of the leg coming
> out of the fuselage is very flat. To lengthen the
> legs to get some fuselage height and a nice 3
> point stance just won't work. We got away with it
> on the Firestar and it worked out perfect. Really
> changed the looks of the airplane on the ground.
> It also did nice 3 point landings.
>
> As far as I know there is only one other MK III
> that has the Miss P'fer look. Dave Patrick, here
> in my area, bought Bill Griffin's MK III.
>
> john h
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Yahhhh..........................Bushwheels ! ! ! Waaaayyyy Higher.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing gear
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> John and others,
> Would taller tires help raise the Mk-3 up into a little more aggressive
> stance?
> Denny
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
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