Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:53 AM - Re: gas tanks (Jeremy Casey)
2. 07:47 AM - Re: gas tanks (CaptainRon)
3. 09:22 AM - Re: gas tanks (John Hauck)
4. 10:04 AM - Steel landing gear (Dallas Shepherd)
5. 10:09 AM - Grahm Lee designed Emergency chute. ()
6. 10:12 AM - Fw: Low cost ChuteSYS.(KenR. ()
7. 01:24 PM - gas tank (Clay Stuart)
8. 01:46 PM - Mark IIIXtra (Clay Stuart)
9. 02:08 PM - Re: gas tank (John Hauck)
10. 03:50 PM - Re: gas tank (Richard Pike)
11. 04:46 PM - Re: Grahm Lee designed Emergency chute. (CaptainRon)
12. 04:58 PM - Re: gas tanks (Larry Cottrell)
13. 05:40 PM - steel landing gear (Dallas Shepherd)
14. 08:57 PM - Re: Green With Envy (Larry Bourne)
15. 09:07 PM - Re: gas tank (Larry Bourne)
16. 10:06 PM - Re: gas tanks (CaptainRon)
17. 10:14 PM - Re: gas tank (Larry Cottrell)
18. 10:24 PM - Re: gas tank (Larry Bourne)
19. 10:35 PM - Re: gas tanks (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey@ldl.net>
> Do you have a photo of it, or a drawing.
Ron/Gang:
Have no drawings. It is one of a kind. Brother
Jim designed, built a prototype out of cardboard,
fitted it into the fuselage by cutting a couple
diagonal tube braces on the upper rear side.
It was designed and built to fit the shape of the
upper rear inclosure.
I'll see if I can find a pic and put it on my
index page.
john h
Here's a fairly small picture of John's gas tank. Taken from the right
side looking back up into the rear fuselage area...
Jeremy "Former Kolb Project owner" Casey
P.S. This Monument Valley thing sounds fun...other makes and models be
welcomed???
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
1/17/03 7:51Jeremy Casey
> P.S. This Monument Valley thing sounds fun...other makes and models be
> welcomed???
===========================
Speaking for me certainly. :-)
I just have to finish mine. Parts of mine are in two seperate paint shops
powder coated. I figured I'll check the quality and pick the least expensive
shop if both of them are good. The cage and all can be painted for less than
$200 here in Tucson.
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
> Jeremy "Former Kolb Project owner" Casey
>
> P.S. This Monument Valley thing sounds fun...other makes and models be
> welcomed???
Jeremy/Gents:
My one vote says "other makes and models be
welcomed", especially previous MK III builders.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Steel landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954@centurytel.net>
I have for sale the steel landing gear for a Mark 3 Kolb. Never used or
drilled, just as they came out of the box. Crashed my Kolb, won't rebuild,
so will make a good deal for someone. Original cost, $360, will sell for $
175.00 ,plus shipping. Please reply off list.
Do Not Archive
Dallas Shepherd
Norfork, Arkansas
870 499 5172
cen23954@centurytel.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Grahm Lee designed Emergency chute. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Kolbers,
A flying friend from Georgia sent me some info on a plans built emergency chute
system designed by Grahm Lee. The plans are only $13 bucks and the info says
its been demonstrated at Oshkosh. Originally designed for the Chinook UL, but
easily adapted to other light planes.
Anybody know anything about it?
I am sure it wouldn't be as good as a BRS, but for those of us on a tight budget
it may be better than none at all.
Hey, when I started flying in the early eighties, the hot ticket was a hand deployed
chute.
I think I'll forward the info to the list for proper fire testing.
Denny
Mk-3 N616DR 2SI 690L-70 near completion ( I'm gonna beat ya Lar ) :-}
South Western, PA
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fw: Low cost ChuteSYS.(KenR. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Ok folks,
Lets here what you think, Anything to slow down the Monument Valley talk that
makes us frozen Yankees green with envy.
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: CJR41170@aol.com
Subject: Low cost ChuteSYS.(KenR.
Low cost and light weight
Categories rns (3)
ECDS EMERGENCY CHUTE DEPLOYMENT SYSTEM $12.95
(Click to Enlarge)
Our Price
$12.95
View Description
Availability
In stock
Shipping: $2.00
Ask the seller a question
Description:
A Graham Lee Design.
E.C.D.S. Emergency Chute Deployment System.
These Retail for 12.95 .
This is the lifesaver that you should not be without, Designed specifically for
the WT-11 Chinook UL this deployment system has been flight tested and proven
successful in front of the crowds at Oshkosh.
Dennis Maland climbed to circuit altitude and pulled the chute. The engine quit,
the chute deployed and the plane drifted half way down. Dennis then pulled the
chute release and glided to a landing, hopped out of the plane and gathered
the chute before it hit the ground.
After deployment time from release to full envelope is about 1.5 seconds at 30
mph.
The body tube was originally a piece of 4 inch aluminum drainage pipe. It can be
plastic or aluminum tube any size greater than 4 inch. The length will depend
upon what size chute and cords to be stuffed in and allow a few inches extra
for the end caps.
These plans contain full Cad Drawings plus instructions on building your own Emergency
Chute Deployment System.
Clear Cad Drawn pages, 10 pages including Card Stock front and back cover with
complete building instructions.
You get color front cover pix and one other color pix inside plans set.
We print each order from our Master CAD file. You get fresh drawings, not copies.
This system can be adapted to most any small aircraft depending on chute size you
select for it.
This item is a must for your safety.
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
" Hi Clay. I made up my design with cardboard and duct tape. I needed to remove
and sleeve two side tubes on cage. I ordered 5052H32.-.050 Proper material
for fuel tanks. It is so thin and flexible, it went through 5 welders at the shop
before it was done. Pressure testing showed 18 pin holes. They were touched
up, but for me to feel comfortable, I had a radiator shop coat the inside and
he assured me that I was all set now. In the 7 yrs. of flying, I am now dealing
with my 4th leak. Tank is coming out!. I looked alot on line, boat tanks(below
deck), etc. What I will replace it with is a poly fuel cell I found listed
under (street rod fuel cells)(Speedway Motors) Sells for like $125 and you install
the fittings where you want. Others have had good results with al. I did'nt
and wanted to pass that along to you to concider.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
Upstate NY "
With the above email sent to me, I am still considering the aluminum tank. I have
a local fellow who was Navy trained for underwater welding, so I think he
can do a good job.
I have completed the mock up of my gas tanks for my Mark IIIXtra. The maximum
size I can place is 9" deep x 13" tall and 18 1/2" wide tapering to 13 1/2" wide
to the rear. That calculates to 8.1 gal per tank. I had to use a tie down
strap between the motor mount area and the diagonal tube that slightly interferes
with placement. By tightening the strap, I could flex the tube up an inch
or so to allow easier placement of the tank. The only thing I had to cut so
far are the lateral containment tubes that went on the outside of the stock 5-gal
tanks. I left the inner two positioning tubes intact. I have decided to
put fill openings on both tanks and not try to fill from just one side through
a cross-over or U-tube. It was going to complicate the placing of the finger
strainers in my tank if I opted for a larger line and the subsequent sizing down
to the gascolator. I am considering making hatch doors to access the fillers
in the Lexan side windows instead of a set-up like Big Lars'. I have found
a gas cap at Aircraft Spruce that is vented but uses a one-way spring loaded
ball which allows air to enter, but stops fuel from leaking from the tank: P/N
10600 for $48.00. Do you think I can trust this arrangement and avoid the vent
openings and lines? It would also seem to prevent fuel from leaking in case
of an inverted landing.
Does anyone have hatch doors into the rear enclosure? I was thinking about making
one side large enough not only to access the gas tank on that side, but to
access and possibly store light items behind the gas tanks.
Thanks,
Clay Stuart
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
" I am getting ready to cover/finish the cage of my Mark111Xtra and lets
just say the plans are quite sparse in that area. Does anyone have any
pictures or links to builders sites that show how the sheet aluminum is
attached at the rear of the cage? Also, looking for pictures of how the
fiberglass piece at the front of the gap seal is mounted. While I'm at
it, how about how the doors are attached and are there any secrets to
attaching the nose cone.
All help appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom Sabean"
Dear Tom,
I agree that there is little information available in the book or plans about this.
Bill Futrell has already been down this road and has been very helpful to
me. I have attached one door and I did it by first clamping it into the position
that looked correct. I used some spacers and a clamp to get the top tab
and tube on the cage lined up. I then held the bottom of the door correctly
and used a 1/4" turbomax drill with the sharp point (thanks Big Lar for the drill
recommendation) through the tube to mark the center of the hole on the lower
tab. Drilled it out and placed a bolt and then repeated the procedure on the
top tab. You might need a washer or two between the tab and tube on the lower
bolt while lining up the upper tab. I used the rear and top-rear cage to
line up the door frame the best I could with these two structures. The door doesn't
exactly mirror the frame and I have a little more gap near the bottom front
of the door and frame than I do in the rear, but I wanted the latch area
to be parallel. Along the bottom of the door is the only area that doesn't look
parallel. I am considering some weatherstripping later on to help seal of
the doors. I am hoping that the flex of the Lexan alongside the windshield and
on the edges of the door Lexan that overlap the door frame will give, or flex
enough, to help mate the surfaces. I tried to line up the door frame just slightly
outside of vertical to the corresponding tube of the cage. I hope that
is what I should have done, but I may not know until it is near completion.
I can't help you on the other areas, but I hope someone responds so I can learn
too. Looks like the nosecone attachment is straight forward however, just rivet
it to place under the front of the Lexan windshield.
Thanks,
Clay Stuart
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
Hi Clay/Bob G/Gang:
I had some leaks to chase around in my Firestar
many years ago, but that 5052 fuel tank was not
sloshed.
My 25 gal tank was sloshed four times by me and a
couple2, 3 or 4 quarts of Randolph Fuel Tank
Slosh/Sealer for aircraft/automotive fuel. Has
leaked narry a drop in it 12 year life time. That
equates to about 1,750 flight hours and a couple
really hard landings and three crashes.
I think the secret to sealing the tank is not a
radiator shop like Bob G did, but using the right
material for the task.
Pin holes in aluminum fuel tanks are extremely
hard to prevent. We pressure test, mark, then go
back and reweld until we think we have all the
leaks. But the final and most crucial task is the
slosh/sealer. Do it right and it will do the job.
Bob, if it was my tank, I think I would pulll it
out, have it steam cleaned, flush it good with
MEK, make sure all the old radiator sealer is
out. Then go back and use the Randolph
Slosh/Sealer. Might not be able to get the inside
of the tank sparkling clean though. In that case
I probably would sell it to my brother in law or
scrap it.
john h
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I have only one thing to add to John's very through suggestions: if it
appears that the old sealer cannot be readily cleaned out, then I would
carefully cut the top or end off the tank, and clean it out, and then rivet
a flange around the edge, and then rivet the top or end back on, and then
slosh it. I have a friend who has riveted up four gas tanks for AirCams,
glommed the inside of them with Pro-Seal fuel tank sealant, and none of
them have leaked a bit, even though they are totally riveted together. It
all comes down to using the right stuff for the job.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldpoops)
At 04:08 PM 1/17/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
>
>Hi Clay/Bob G/Gang:
>
>I had some leaks to chase around in my Firestar
>many years ago, but that 5052 fuel tank was not
>sloshed.
>
>My 25 gal tank was sloshed four times by me and a
>couple2, 3 or 4 quarts of Randolph Fuel Tank
>Slosh/Sealer for aircraft/automotive fuel. Has
>leaked narry a drop in it 12 year life time. That
>equates to about 1,750 flight hours and a couple
>really hard landings and three crashes.
>
>I think the secret to sealing the tank is not a
>radiator shop like Bob G did, but using the right
>material for the task.
>
>Pin holes in aluminum fuel tanks are extremely
>hard to prevent. We pressure test, mark, then go
>back and reweld until we think we have all the
>leaks. But the final and most crucial task is the
>slosh/sealer. Do it right and it will do the job.
>
>Bob, if it was my tank, I think I would pulll it
>out, have it steam cleaned, flush it good with
>MEK, make sure all the old radiator sealer is
>out. Then go back and use the Randolph
>Slosh/Sealer. Might not be able to get the inside
>of the tank sparkling clean though. In that case
>I probably would sell it to my brother in law or
>scrap it.
>
>john h
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Grahm Lee designed Emergency chute. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
1/17/03 11:18rowedl@highstream.net
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> A flying friend from Georgia sent me some info on a plans built emergency
> chute system designed by Grahm Lee. The plans are only $13 bucks and the
> info says its been demonstrated at Oshkosh. Originally designed for the
> Chinook UL, but easily adapted to other light planes.
> Anybody know anything about it?
> I am sure it wouldn't be as good as a BRS, but for those of us on a tight
> budget it may be better than none at all.
> Hey, when I started flying in the early eighties, the hot ticket was a hand
> deployed chute.
> I think I'll forward the info to the list for proper fire testing.
> Denny
> Mk-3 N616DR 2SI 690L-70 near completion ( I'm gonna beat ya Lar ) :-}
> South Western, PA
>
>
===============================
Go check this site.
***** http://www.mcp.com.au/xair/online/category17_1.htm ******
Its in Ozi Land and the money is in Ozi dollars, relatively inexpensive in
US dollars. They have an exchange calculator there.
>
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
> I just have to finish mine. Parts of mine are in two seperate paint shops
> powder coated. I figured I'll check the quality and pick the least
expensive
> shop if both of them are good. The cage and all can be painted for less
than
> $200 here in Tucson.
>
> do not archive
One thing that you might be aware of in taking your stuff to any other place
to get it powder coated that is not used to dealing with airplanes is the
way that they powder coat stuff. I am not sure what TNK ends up with as a
added weight factor, but I had my cage done locally and they added 30 pounds
to the weight of the frame. If I had it to do over I would not have had it
powder coated, especially since we don't rust in this part of Oregon, we
blow away.
Larry
Message 13
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| Subject: | steel landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954@centurytel.net>
The steel landing gear for the Mark3 has been sold.
Dallas Shepherd
cen23954@centurytel.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Green With Envy |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Hate ta rub it in, ya know, but one frozen Yankee showed up here the other
day, so yesterday we warmed him up a little by having lunch at a GREAT
Mexican restaurant....................out on the patio in sunny 80 deg.
weather. Hadta get that in there..............now the Lar gets to pick on
YOU guys ! ! ! Hah ! ! ! Yah, Bob Bean was here, and seemed to enjoy
himself. He stayed long enuf to meet Hugh Hume this morning, who is
researching which plane to build, and has pretty much settled on a Mk III.
Hope Vamoose didn't scare him off. Both those guys are real nice fellas,
Hugh's little daughter Savannah is a nice, well mannered young lady and I
had a very pleasant couple of days with them all. Good excuse for 2 days in
a row at my favorite restaurant, too. (but a bad thing for my waistline)
I tried to start Vamoose for them, but turns out the engine is frozen.
(didn't expect THAT either) Sprayed some WD-40 in the cylinders, but so far
it hasn't helped. If it ain't one thing, it's another. Gonna kick that
plane in the butt ! ! ! (maybe I should buy my buddy's J-5 after all)
Humph...................tomorrow, I'll get serious, and sort out this latest
glitch; meantime the GoGittum is back in the Lar, and we gonna DO IT ! ! !
Monument Valley time approacheth. Big Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: Low cost ChuteSYS.(KenR.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> Ok folks,
> Lets here what you think, Anything to slow down the Monument Valley talk
that makes us frozen Yankees green with envy.
>
> Denny
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Several years ago, I had a need to do some welding on a portable outboard
motor tank. Rinsed it good, then stuck a tube from a nitrogen bottle into
it; turned it on to a low hiss; waited a while, then commenced to weld -
after 1st hiding it behind a corner, and reaching out with a match on the
end of an 8 foot stick - just in case. (I used silver solder - but it's
still flame around gasoline fumes) The nitrogen displaced the air in the
tank, so if there WERE any fumes left over from the rinsing, there was no
oxygen in there to cause a problem. Food for thought. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: gas tank
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> I have only one thing to add to John's very through suggestions: if it
> appears that the old sealer cannot be readily cleaned out, then I would
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
1/17/03 17:57Larry Cottrell
> I am not sure what TNK ends up with as a
> added weight factor, but I had my cage done locally and they added 30 pounds
> to the weight of the frame.
===========================
Thats a lot of added weight. I picked up the door frames today already
coated, couldn't tell any difference. They coat it about 1.5 microns. Hard
to imagine 1.5 microns adding up to 30 pounds. :-)
do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Well you can do the same thing by sticking a hose up your car exhaust, and
then sticking the other end in the tank, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: gas tank
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Several years ago, I had a need to do some welding on a portable outboard
> motor tank. Rinsed it good, then stuck a tube from a nitrogen bottle into
> it; turned it on to a low hiss; waited a while, then commenced to weld -
> after 1st hiding it behind a corner, and reaching out with a match on the
> end of an 8 foot stick - just in case. (I used silver solder - but it's
> still flame around gasoline fumes) The nitrogen displaced the air in the
> tank, so if there WERE any fumes left over from the rinsing, there was no
> oxygen in there to cause a problem. Food for thought.
Lar.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: gas tank
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
> >
> > I have only one thing to add to John's very through suggestions: if it
> > appears that the old sealer cannot be readily cleaned out, then I would
>
>
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Sticking a hose where ?? Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: gas tank
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
>
> Well you can do the same thing by sticking a hose up your car exhaust, and
> then sticking the other end in the tank, but I wouldn't recommend it.
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: gas tank
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
> >
> > Several years ago, I had a need to do some welding on a portable
outboard
> > motor tank. Rinsed it good, then stuck a tube from a nitrogen bottle
into
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I think it depends a lot on who's doing the job. Parts of my fuselage'
powder coat are nearly 1/16" thick; parts are so thin there's rust showing
thru. Rudder pedal sliders were glued to the frame, and it was a nightmare
getting them cleaned up enuf to move. (still need a come-along to move
them) Once moved, there's no powder coat on the portion that was hidden by
the sliders when they sprayed. Great Job, you bet ! ! ! It was done by
the shop contracted by TOK. I still think I'd use epoxy primer, if I were
starting over. Used it on my door frames, and was very impressed with the
stuff. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: gas tanks
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
>
> 1/17/03 17:57Larry Cottrell
>
> > I am not sure what TNK ends up with as a
> > added weight factor, but I had my cage done locally and they added 30
pounds
> > to the weight of the frame.
> ===========================
>
> Thats a lot of added weight. I picked up the door frames today already
> coated, couldn't tell any difference. They coat it about 1.5 microns. Hard
> to imagine 1.5 microns adding up to 30 pounds. :-)
>
> do not archive
>
>
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