---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/28/03: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:54 AM - Monument Valley (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 2. 07:01 AM - Re: 110% duty cycle? (Richard Pike) 3. 07:50 AM - Re: 110% duty cycle? (Terry) 4. 08:20 AM - Re: 110% duty cycle? (Don Gherardini) 5. 09:25 AM - Re: Monument Valley (Larry Bourne) 6. 09:26 AM - Re: 110% duty cycle? (Jack & Louise Hart) 7. 10:58 AM - two strokes vs 912 (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 8. 11:23 AM - Re: 110% duty cycle? (John Hauck) 9. 11:26 AM - Re: two strokes vs 912 (Jack & Louise Hart) 10. 11:27 AM - Re: Monument Valley (John Hauck) 11. 01:18 PM - E gearbox (Don Martin) 12. 02:54 PM - Re: two strokes vs 912 (John Hauck) 13. 03:01 PM - Re: E gearbox (John Hauck) 14. 05:16 PM - Re: E gearbox (Ken Korenek) 15. 05:25 PM - Re: two strokes vs 912 (Richard Pike) 16. 06:07 PM - Goulding's at Monument Valley (Larry Bourne) 17. 06:29 PM - Re: two strokes vs 912 (John Hauck) 18. 06:32 PM - Re: E gearbox (Wayne) 19. 06:40 PM - Re: Goulding's at Monument Valley (John Hauck) 20. 07:03 PM - Re: Goulding's at Monument Valley (Larry Bourne) 21. 07:16 PM - Re: Goulding's at Monument Valley (John Hauck) 22. 08:12 PM - Re: E gearbox (Cavuontop@aol.com) 23. 08:37 PM - Re: E gearbox (possums) 24. 09:08 PM - Help!! My 447 has died () 25. 09:42 PM - Re: Help!! My 447 has died (possums) 26. 11:03 PM - Re: 110% duty cycle? (GeoR38@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:48 AM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" WOW! Thanks to Bruce Hensel for putting together such a great album and story of his Monument Valley trip and, Andy, sure am glad you found it and shared it with us. I'd like to go with you guys - this album has convinced me. I think someone (????) needs to establish a firm date, if that hasn't happened yet, and then ask folks to commit so the "someone" can make whatever arrangements need to be made. Dunno if it's important or not, but keep in mind that the Brian Ranch fly in is May 24 & 25. Arizona Dave Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:28 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 110% duty cycle? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Good catch George, should have mentioned that. Yes, the increased airflow does make the mixture leaner. The carburetor does not keep the mixture constant because it is not sophisticated enough. The amount of fuel flowing through the carburetor (once you get above idle) is a function of where the needle is positioned in the needle jet. Because the needle is tapered, the amount of fuel flow increases as the slide is raised, until the needle is far enough up that it is of no significance, the main jet now determines the volume of fuel flow. But at any point along the way, air flow volume is determined by the position of the slide and the rpm of the engine. If the throttle is set at 75%, and you are in level flight, let's say you are chugging along at 5,800 rpm. Drop the nose, unload the prop, and the rpm climbs to 6,000. Airflow volume increases with rpm's, (the engine is a pump) but fuel flow remains constant, the position of the slide has not changed, and the mixture is leaned out. This works to our advantage, because if the carb is jetted correctly for good egt's at cruise, then when ever you start to climb, the prop load slows the engine down a bit, and the slower pumping of airflow (less volume) richens the mixture, which is good for cooling the pistons. The reason the fuel flow does not change is that the suction pulling the fuel through the jets does not change enough to compensate for the changes in manifold pressure caused by changing prop load. And would it even change in the desired direction if it did? Maybe if we had fuel injection? Also, there are altitude compensating carburetors available, but I have no concept of how they work, and no opinion of what response they would provide to the changes in manifold pressure that probably occur as the prop is loaded or unloaded. Would they automatically adjust the fuel mixture? Haven't got a clue. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Do Not Archive At 11:38 PM 1/27/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com > >In a message dated 1/27/03 9:33:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, >rwpike@charter.net writes: > > > > > However, if you are climbing at 5800, and then lower the nose without > > touching the throttle, the rpm's will rise, the engine will unload, and > the > > > > egt's will rise also, but the situation has not remained constant because > > the rpm's have risen. The egt's rise because rpm's have gone up -with an > > associated increase in airflow- without a change in fuel flow. > > (Despite any claims to the contrary, I have yet to see a light plane prop > > for our size aircraft that was truly constant speed. The rpm's always > > change with load) > > > > Richard Pike > > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >But you didn't say the punchline Richard...namely that the increase in >airflow with no increase in fuel flow constitutes leaner mixture. The only >thing that blows my mind is ....why can you say that the fuel flow has >remained the same....doesn't the carburator automatically keep the mixture >the same? I thought that was the function of it. > >George Randolph > > Help Stop Spam! Delete all address information (especially mine) off everything you forward, and make Blind Carbon Copy a way of life. Thanks! And have a blessed day. rp ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:20 AM PST US From: "Terry" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 110% duty cycle? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry" Richard, I question the constant fuel flow statement. Since the fuel is sucked from the carb bowl through the main jets by the venturie (sp?) principle, I think that the fuel flow would increase with the increased air flow through the venturie. More air flow, more suction. The idle circuit works on intake vacuum. Terry But at any point along the way, air flow volume is determined by the position of the slide and the rpm of the engine. If the throttle is set at 75%, and you are in level flight, let's say you are chugging along at 5,800 rpm. Drop the nose, unload the prop, and the rpm climbs to 6,000. Airflow volume increases with rpm's, (the engine is a pump) but fuel flow remains constant, the position of the slide has not changed, and the mixture is leaned out. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:59 AM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 110% duty cycle? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Richard, You I want to say that I agree completly with your understanding of the fact that no mechanical or vacuum operated carb does a perfect job in maintaining a constant ratio of fuel/air at a wide range of rpms. The varible venturi carb,,(slide), was a large improvement in this area when it was developed, but it s not perfect. The trouble is when the rpms change, and the manifold vacuum accordingly, the speed of the air thru the venturi changes and the fuel pulled thru the main jet (due to the vacuum of the venturi effect) does not remain constant. The decreasing size of the Venturi by way of the slide going down helps to keep the velocity up at reduced rpms, and the needle attemptes to regulate/match the fuel flow, but it virtually impossible to keep it as close as a 2 cycle requires to maintain a constant EGT. Then...we add pressure/altitude differences to the problem and it becomes even more impossible. As we all know, Carburators have been pretty well abandoned in the engine industry and replaced by computer controlled Fuel Injection to rectify this problem. Vacuum diaphram carbs are the closest thing you will be able to find that will do the best job here, as they keep the venturi size regulated according to the manifold vacuum. In other words....when at a low rpm/high load, and the throttle is opened up (IN a butterfly or a cable slide carb)...the Airflow slows thru the carb...and less fuel is pulled thru the jet creating a very lean ratio. A vacuum controlled slide will not do this, for it will keep the venturi size small enough to keep the velocity of the air high enough to keep pulling fuel thru the jet. Jack.....when i read some of the data you have collected on throttle setting and temps and rpms.....the first thing that I wonder is what kind of venturi control the carb had. Was it a manual cable operated slide?..(which I suspect by the data) .or a vacuum controlled slide? I ask this only because I have had similiar expierience on trying to accurately size a carb to a 2 stroke and the load and rpm range the job requires. It IS difficult , particularly when the rpm range required is large! Your data kind of reminds me of that situation we had way back in attempting to design a piston ported 2 cycle powered hydraulic power supply. We ended up going with a much smaller carb and sacrificing top end power to get a wider , more controllable curve. The deal was kind of similiar to an aircraft prop installation, in as the engine was under load from the start. The smaller carb kept the mix rich enough through out the required range and prevented the previous lean siezures we had that came from a cold start and quick opening of the throttle causeing the fuel to just about cease to flow thru the jet!......YEs..it was all about warranty!....couldnt release the product untill we couild prove to the accountants that the warranty claim frequency would be in the acceptable range for the predicted market share! Don ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:33 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I thought it was agreed we'd go on May 19 & 20, and have already put it on the calendar at work. (???) Based on a LOT of past experience running Scuba charter trips, I think it'd be best if each person going would make their own arrangements with Goulding's, etc. I've been in the unhappy postion of co-ordinating groups many times, (I'm in the middle of one for whale watching next month, and have given my friends the necessary phone #'s, email addresses, and websites, so that they can make their own arrangements - I'm not a babysitter) and have found repeatedly that people will change their minds at the last minute, expect hand & foot service, get bitter and nasty, etc., etc, and give little, if any, thanks at the end. I'm sorry if I sound pessimistic, but for myself, I'll contact Goulding's, and make arrangements to arrive there on May 18 & also spend the evening of the 19th. When I do contact them, I'll let them know to expect a dozen or more people, & 6+ airplanes, but from there, it's up to you. Erich & Boyd came up with the idea for us, & Dave & Eve have been good enuf to supply us with phone numbers, procedures, etc., now let's all work to BE there. Been There Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" > > WOW! Thanks to Bruce Hensel for putting together such a great album and story of his Monument Valley trip and, Andy, sure am glad you found it and shared it with us. I'd like to go with you guys - this album has convinced me. I think someone (????) needs to establish a firm date, if that hasn't happened yet, and then ask folks to commit so the "someone" can make whatever arrangements need to be made. Dunno if it's important or not, but keep in mind that the Brian Ranch fly in is May 24 & 25. > > Arizona Dave > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:43 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 110% duty cycle? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 10:25 AM 1/28/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" > >Jack.....when i read some of the data you have collected on throttle setting >and temps and rpms.....the first thing that I wonder is what kind of venturi >control the carb had. Was it a manual cable operated slide?..(which I >suspect by the data) .or a vacuum controlled slide? Don, You guessed correctly. I am beginning to wonder if the addition of a booster bottle to the intake manifold may help smooth an engine at the lower end. I have taxied back to the hangar and when I put the FireFly away I have discovered gas dripping from the air cleaner. If one runs the engine with the air cleaner off, one can see the a mist of gas flying out of the carburetor at certain speeds. This indicates that intake resonance and intake port closing is causing reverse flows which are sucked back into the carburetor. This may explain why I see such high flow rates at the lower engine speeds. The same air is passing through the venturi three times and so the fuel flow doubles and triples at those speeds. These bottles are used on model airplane engines, motorcycles, etc. and the claim is that they get a boost in low rpm torque and 15% increase in fuel economy. If you are curious, you can find more info at: It would be another interesting experiment. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: two strokes vs 912 From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 01/28/2003 01:55:46 PM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Have to say that Ive had a smirk on my face this past week reading all this stuff on duty cycles, EGTs, prop loading, needle jets, etc etc. Not to mention the once-a-month debates about brands of oil and how to mix it. Not a day goes by that Im not glad I went with the 912. Cant seem to recall reading about many 912 engine outs. During my reading of John H's recent post, I was singing Hallelujah, amen brother , as it seemed to recite chapter and verse on why to have a 912 instead of a two stroke - only to have it end up by saying that if you are not flying that many hours, go with a two stroke. Not sure of the logic there, but I dont plan on switching. Granted, you have to lay out a hefty sum of cash, but assuming one has the plane and financial situation that would allow the 912, I believe it is the only way to go. And think of all the time you can save not having to read/write postings to the list regarding oil mixing : ) Hope Im not coming off as too smug, but maybe there are a few people out there trying to decide on a type of plane / engine. I'll bet John isnt considering a trade-in for a two-stroke either. regards to all, Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:15 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 110% duty cycle? --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > I am beginning to wonder if the addition of a booster bottle to the intake manifold may help smooth an engine at the lower end. If one runs the engine with the air cleaner off, one can see the a mist of gas flying out of the carburetor at certain speeds. > Jack B. Hart FF004 Hi Fellas: I know I don't have any fancy formulas, graphs, or words to add to this discussion, but let me say something anyway. Just guessing, but I bet the exhaust system you are using on your new engine has a power band, and it probably is not a low speed power band. So, maybe you need an exhaust system to match your slow speed, low power requirements before you start trying to recarb. Secondly, every gasoline recip engine, 2 and 4 stroke, has what I commonly refer to say "vapor stand off". When the engine is running it has a little cloud of fuel vapor standing off the mouth of the carb all by itself. In the case of the two stroke it is a gas/oil vapor cloud. Discovered this way back when I was a kid and played and experimented with the little Briggs engine on the lawn mower. Take the aircleaner off, run it at operational rpm, about 3,600, and there will be a little cloud of fuel vapor sitting there. Amazed me then and also when I discovered that the little V8 in my 35 Ford Pickup did the same thing. Don't ask me why it does it cause I don't know, but I do know it does. Stuff I learned as a kid who was extremely curious about most stuff, especially mechanical. Just trying to help folks. john h ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:04 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: two strokes vs 912 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 10:54 AM 1/28/03 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com > Erich, For those of us who are forced into the ultra light vehicle category, the two stroke is about the only way to go or not go at all. There is room for the heavies with 912s etc too. Snow is melting and the water is starting to run, must head to the airport. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO do not archive Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:12 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > I thought it was agreed we'd go on May 19 & 20, and have already put it on > the calendar at work. (???) > Larry Bourne Larry/Gang: That is my ETA, 18 May or earlier. Depends on how long it takes to fly, wind and weather. I will also make coordination for myself with Goulding about flying in and camping. If no one shows up but me, I will be covered. Where's the mess hall? john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:30 PM PST US From: "Don Martin" Subject: Kolb-List: E gearbox --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Martin" I'm about ready to buy engine (503) and gearbox for a Firestar II. Been talking to Stuart over at Powerfin Props and he suggested the E gearbox with the 3:47 to 1 ratio for max efficiency. Spoke to the folks at Kolb who indicated that there might be a problem with this setup. They said that because of the position of the electric start, the entire engine would have to be raised about 2 inches which might in turn affect the thrust line, giving the plane more of a tendency to nose over. Has anyone on the list tried this combination? I've heard of engines on Rans being raised up by 7-8 inches and not affecting the noseover tendency significantly. Also, what would be needed to raise the engine? Would four standoff supports and extra long bolts do? Been following this list for 2 years now as I've built the Firestar and found the info invaluable. Some of you guys come up with this answer? Don (kolbdriver@hotmail.com) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:46 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: two strokes vs 912 --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Cant seem to recall > reading about many 912 engine outs. During my reading of John H's recent > post, I was singing Hallelujah, amen brother , as it seemed to recite > chapter and verse on why to have a 912 instead of a two stroke - only to > have it end up by saying that if you are not flying that many hours, go > with a two stroke. Not sure of the logic there, but I dont plan on > switching. > Erich Weaver Erich/Gang: Do we have to be logical??? :-) So you won't feel too badly, trade in value of the 912 series engines is really good. I'm happy with my 4 stroke. Think I'll keep it. Amazing how the 912 changed the character of my airplane overnight from the 582. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:40 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E gearbox --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Been > talking to Stuart over at Powerfin Props and he suggested the E gearbox with > the 3:47 to 1 ratio for max efficiency. Spoke to the folks at Kolb who > indicated that there might be a problem with this setup. They said that > because of the position of the electric start, the entire engine would have > to be raised about 2 inches which might in turn affect the thrust line, > giving the plane more of a tendency to nose over. > Don Don/Gents: I personally would not consider raising the engine, period. The lower the thrust line the better. Unless, of course the prop is going to strike the tailboom. :-) I wouldn't want to hang a heavy E gear box on a little Firestar, or for that matter a MK III either. B Gear box worked good on my Firestar with a 447 and has been the mainstay coupled up to a 503. Had a C gear box on the 582 and MK III that worked good. But the C is a lot heavier than the B. Doubt there will be much difference in "max efficiency" between the E and the B. If there is, the lighter weight B will win out. Again folks, my own personal opinion...................... john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:29 PM PST US From: Ken Korenek Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E gearbox --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken Korenek Don Martin wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Martin" > he suggested the E gearbox with > the 3:47 to 1 ratio for max efficiency. Spoke to the folks at Kolb who > indicated that there might be a problem with this setup. I've got that setup and did not have to raise the engine. I did have to carve out a little of the engine mount plate so that the starter would fit and it's now 3/4 inch from the engine mount tube. I'll send you a picture if you want. Contact me off list. -- Do Not Archive ********************* Ken W. Korenek ken-foi@attbi.com Kolb FireStar II, "My Mistress" Rotax 503, Oil Injected 3 Blade Powerfin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image019.jpg Six Chuter SR7-XL "Red Baron" Powered Parachute Rotax 582, Oil Injected 3 Blade PowerFin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image021.jpg 4906 Oak Springs Drive Arlington, Texas 76016 817-572-6832 voice 817-572-6842 fax 817-657-6500 cell 817-483-8054 home ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:44 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: two strokes vs 912 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike You can't hide money... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 10:54 AM 1/28/03 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com > > >Have to say that Ive had a smirk on my face this past week reading all this >stuff on duty cycles, EGTs, prop loading, needle jets, etc etc. Not to >mention the once-a-month debates about brands of oil and how to mix it. Not >a day goes by that Im not glad I went with the 912. Cant seem to recall >reading about many 912 engine outs. During my reading of John H's recent >post, I was singing Hallelujah, amen brother , as it seemed to recite >chapter and verse on why to have a 912 instead of a two stroke - only to >have it end up by saying that if you are not flying that many hours, go >with a two stroke. Not sure of the logic there, but I dont plan on >switching. Granted, you have to lay out a hefty sum of cash, but assuming >one has the plane and financial situation that would allow the 912, I >believe it is the only way to go. And think of all the time you can save >not having to read/write postings to the list regarding oil mixing : ) > >Hope Im not coming off as too smug, but maybe there are a few people out >there trying to decide on a type of plane / engine. I'll bet John isnt >considering a trade-in for a two-stroke either. > >regards to all, > >Erich Weaver > > Help Stop Spam! Delete all address information (especially mine) off everything you forward, and make Blind Carbon Copy a way of life. Thanks! And have a blessed day. rp ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:51 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Goulding's at Monument Valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Being as the ol' Lar is such a nice guy, here's what I learned a few minutes ago. I called Goulding's Lodge in Monument Valley, at 1-435-727-3231, and chose option 3, for the campground, & RV parking. I spoke with a very pleasant lady named Bessie, and was told that campsites are not a problem, and just come on in. If flying in, they want a copy of your airplane insurance faxed to them before arrival at 1-435-727-3344. After landing, call them at the 727-3231 number, and they'll come and pick you up, and take you to the campground. I asked specifically about a release of liability, and she told me that all they want is the proof of insurance, in advance. She wasn't real concerned about number of people or airplanes, except if you want a room, or RV spot. Then, reservations are necessary. Rooms have either a single king size, or single queen size, and are $135.00 per night (in May), either way. Soooooo.....................there's a start for ya. Helpful Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:31 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: two strokes vs 912 --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > For those of us who are forced into the ultra light vehicle category, the two stroke is about the only way to go or not go at all. > Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack/gang: Good point! We are all only a physical away from an ultralight. Glad you brought that up. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:41 PM PST US From: "Wayne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E gearbox --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Wayne" Don I have a mark III that I put a 582 on with e-gear box, It does push over a little bite, But not that much, I have tryed it both ways. You have to make your own spacers. If you would like I can send you some pictures? Wayne Kolb mark III Rotax 582 72" Three blade warp drive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Martin" Subject: Kolb-List: E gearbox > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Martin" > > I'm about ready to buy engine (503) and gearbox for a Firestar II. Been > talking to Stuart over at Powerfin Props and he suggested the E gearbox with > the 3:47 to 1 ratio for max efficiency. Spoke to the folks at Kolb who > indicated that there might be a problem with this setup. They said that > because of the position of the electric start, the entire engine would have > to be raised about 2 inches which might in turn affect the thrust line, > giving the plane more of a tendency to nose over. > Has anyone on the list tried this combination? I've heard of engines on > Rans being raised up by 7-8 inches and not affecting the noseover tendency > significantly. Also, what would be needed to raise the engine? Would four > standoff supports and extra long bolts do? > Been following this list for 2 years now as I've built the Firestar and > found the info invaluable. Some of you guys come up with this answer? > Don (kolbdriver@hotmail.com) > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:06 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Goulding's at Monument Valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck I called Goulding's Lodge in Monument Valley, at 1-435-727-3231, and chose option 3, for the campground, & RV parking. Soooooo.....................there's a start for ya. Helpf! > ul Lar. > > Larry Bourne Laryy/Gang: I don't care what the rest of the Kolb gang say about, you are alright. Thanks for the info. I don't have a FAX machine, but I guess I could hand her a copy of my insurance when I get there. If not, I'll just have to go to jail. Looking forward to the flight to Utah and parts West. I was out that way two years ago, roaming around in the old Dodge and 5th wheel. Beautiful place. Big, majestic, lots of open sparsely populated land. I love it. See ya'll about the 18th, 19th, 20th, or there abouts. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:17 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Goulding's at Monument Valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Yaaaaaaaahhhhh.......................like I say - when they're pickin' on me, they're leavin' someone else alone. You could scan in the insurance thing, and email it to me. I can print it out, and fax it from work. Big Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Goulding's at Monument Valley > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > I called Goulding's Lodge in Monument Valley, at > 1-435-727-3231, and chose option 3, for the > campground, & RV parking. > Soooooo.....................there's a start for > ya. Helpf! > > ul Lar. > > > > Larry Bourne > > Laryy/Gang: > > I don't care what the rest of the Kolb gang say > about, you are alright. > > Thanks for the info. > > I don't have a FAX machine, but I guess I could > hand her a copy of my insurance when I get there. > If not, I'll just have to go to jail. > > Looking forward to the flight to Utah and parts > West. I was out that way two years ago, roaming > around in the old Dodge and 5th wheel. Beautiful > place. Big, majestic, lots of open sparsely > populated land. I love it. > > See ya'll about the 18th, 19th, 20th, or there > abouts. > > john h > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:58 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Goulding's at Monument Valley --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Larry/Gang: Will do. Bet it is lost before I get to Monument Valley. hehehe If it is, I will have my papers with me. Thanks friend. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:35 PM PST US From: Cavuontop@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E gearbox --> Kolb-List message posted by: Cavuontop@aol.com Don: I have over 100 hours on a Mark 3 Classic with a 582 and a 3.47:1 E box with a 72" Powerfin Prop. The engine is raised about three inches and gives good clearance for the prop. This was accomplished in 2 ways. 1) The Lord mounts were inverted. 2) Two "rails" of square aluminum extrusion about 2" x 1.25" with a 3/16 wall were placed on top of the Lord mounts running front to back, then the stock engine mounting plate was bolted through with longer bolts. This set up also has the added appeal of providing a very convenient place to mount the Mikuni fuel pump. The system was devised by Dennis Souder, was shipped by the factory, and was tested extensively by the old Kolb Company. There is factory drawing for it somewhere. Dennis liked it because it permitted the use of the 3.47:1 E box and worked well with a 72" Powerfin prop. I have found my set up to be noticeably quieter than my friend's 582 with a B box. It is also very smooth. At identical power settings of 6000 RPM I walk away from my friend who has a B box and a 68" Ivo on his classic. I also have the PTO end electric starter on my E box which as been trouble free and really turns the engine over. I have not had any problems with the higher thrust line, but I have also never flown my plane in any other configuration. Dennis Souder thought the slight elevation if the engine permitted more of the prop to run in better air and may have contributed to the improved efficiency. Mark R. Sellers Kolb Twinstar Mark III, N496BM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:34 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: E gearbox --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums > >I've got that setup and did not have to raise the engine. I did have to >carve >out a little of the engine mount plate so that the starter would fit and it's >now 3/4 inch from the engine mount tube. I'll send you a picture if you want. > >Do Not Archive > >********************* >Ken W. Korenek I agree with Ken , we have at least a dozen of these 503 E gear box set ups and I think they work great. Mine is not stock and you do did have to carve out a little of the engine mount plate so that the starter would fit - like Ken says. BTW: I got about 450 hrs without a "decarb" and still got full compression on both cylinders. Going for 600 before a tear down. Weather has slowed us down here in the last month or so. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:12 PM PST US From: Subject: Kolb-List: Help!! My 447 has died --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kolbers, I need suggestions for a problem that is new for my 447. I drove to the Wakulla County Airport at Panacea, FL shortly after lunch to do some flying with Duane the Plane. Assembled the Fly and decided to make a few trips around the patch while waiting for Duane. Did about 3 approaches before making the landing. Duane arrived at this time so his Firefly came out of his trailer, was assembled and we were eager to go flying. Duane and I were ready so I did the starter thing and pulled and pulled and pulled and nothing happened. To make a long story short, we did many things trying to trouble shoot the problem and believe it is spark related. The carb float bowl had the right level of fuel when removed. The primer was used without success. Pulled the plugs and they were not wet. Tried to see if the plugs were firing but this seems to be an impossible dream. We even tried that evil starting fluid with no effect. Was getting ready to order a new solid state box until I saw that it costs $228 so I believe well try some other solutions first and hope that the box is not the problem. Really could use suggestion on how to troubleshoot the electrical system. Disconnected the kill switch wire at the engine to make sure it wasnt shorted somewhere. If the engine had started, would have killed it with the choke. So, please share your experiences in this area, especially troubleshooting tests Gene Ledbetter Cincinnati Firefly 156 hours ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:06 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Help!! My 447 has died --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 12:07 AM 1/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: > >Kolbers, > >I need suggestions for a problem that is new for my 447. > >Duane arrived at this time so his Firefly came out of his trailer, was >assembled and we were eager to go flying. Duane and I were ready >so I did the starter thing and pulled and pulled and pulled and >nothing happened. >So, please share your experiences in this area, especially >troubleshooting tests > >Gene Ledbetter Dear Mr Ledbetter "Professional Retiree" . You might check the vent line - "part # 31 = 60 cents" - on the carburetor of your 447. It will not start if the little holes in this plastic line are stopped up with dirt/oil. Amazing, but true. Or if it is not fairly clean. You can pull and pull all the live long day. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:19 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 110% duty cycle? --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/03 10:02:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, rwpike@charter.net writes: > Good catch George, should have mentioned that. > Yes, the increased airflow does make the mixture leaner. > The carburetor does not keep the mixture constant because it is not > sophisticated enough. The amount of fuel flowing through the carburetor > (once you get above idle) is a function of where the needle is positioned > in the needle jet. Because the needle is tapered, the amount of fuel flow > increases as the slide is raised, until the needle is far enough up that it > > is of no significance, the main jet now determines the volume of fuel flow. > > But at any point along the way, air flow volume is determined by the > position of the slide and the rpm of the engine. If the throttle is set at > 75%, and you are in level flight, let's say you are chugging along at 5,800 > > rpm. Drop the nose, unload the prop, and the rpm climbs to 6,000. Airflow > volume increases with rpm's, (the engine is a pump) but fuel flow remains > constant, the position of the slide has not changed, and the mixture is > leaned out. > > This works to our advantage, because if the carb is jetted correctly for > good egt's at cruise, then when ever you start to climb, the prop load > slows the engine down a bit, and the slower pumping of airflow (less > volume) richens the mixture, which is good for cooling the pistons. > > The reason the fuel flow does not change is that the suction pulling the > fuel through the jets does not change enough to compensate for the changes > in manifold pressure caused by changing prop load. And would it even change > > in the desired direction if it did? Maybe if we had fuel injection? Also, > there are altitude compensating carburetors available, but I have no > concept of how they work, and no opinion of what response they would > provide to the changes in manifold pressure that probably occur as the prop > > is loaded or unloaded. Would they automatically adjust the fuel mixture? > Haven't got a clue. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > Do Not Archive > > > At 11:38 PM 1/27/03 -0500, you wrote: > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com > > > >In a message dated 1/27/03 9:33:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >rwpike@charter.net writes: > > > >> > >>However, if you are climbing at 5800, and then lower the nose without > >>touching the throttle, the rpm's will rise, the engine will unload, and > >the > >> > >>egt's will rise also, but the situation has not remained constant because > >>the rpm's have risen. The egt's rise because rpm's have gone up -with an > >>associated increase in airflow- without a change in fuel flow. > >>(Despite any claims to the contrary, I have yet to see a light plane prop > >>for our size aircraft that was truly constant speed. The rpm's always > >>change with load) > >> > >>Richard Pike > >>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >> > >But you didn't say the punchline Richard...namely that the increase in > >airflow with no increase in fuel flow constitutes leaner mixture. The only > >thing that blows my mind is ....why can you say that the fuel flow has > >remained the same....doesn't the carburator automatically keep the mixture > >the same? I thought that was the function of it. > > > >George Randolph > Thank you, Richard, you've attacked a question I have had since.....'85 when my Cuyunna blasted me with silence and I went down into a soy patch...no damage....even flew out with a freed up but galled piston....I was a little .... er...a lot dumber then.....but was lucky. Problem was me, not the Cuyunna....I hadn't even heard of egt yet and most pterodactyl's didn't have one either. George Randolph Firestar driver from Akron O