Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:37 AM - Re: Rotax 532 (johnjung@compusenior.com)
2. 10:49 AM - Re: Twinstar/MarkIII (Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM)
3. 12:44 PM - Wing rib cleanup (RWilliJill@aol.com)
4. 01:11 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (Gherkins Tim-rp3420)
5. 04:18 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (CaptainRon)
6. 05:39 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (Larry Bourne)
7. 06:01 PM - Wing rib cleanup (John Hauck)
8. 07:20 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (RWilliJill@aol.com)
9. 07:32 PM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 02/03/03 (VIC)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "johnjung@compusenior.com" <johnjung@compusenior.com>
Group,
Tom is correct in the possibility that he brings up, (i.e. the connections
could cause the problem). But in my experience, it is less likely than the
gage or the probe, and it can be specifically tested for by putting things
back to starting positions and seeing if the problem is back. If it is, it's
not the connections. Just because there are many possible causes for a problem
doesn't mean that they can't be sorted out with some patience.
John Jung
--> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <kuffel@cyberport.net <mailto:kuffel@cyberport.net>>
There is yet another possibility. The difficulty may be in the wiring
not the engine, guage or probe.
snip......
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Twinstar/MarkIII |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
"Paul Petty" wrote:
< we found a Twinstar Mark III ... data plate on the fuselage tube
indicated that the builder was Allen Sasser from Jacksonville FL. And that
the engine was a veneer? Any one know this fella or the plane? >
Paul -
The airplane you saw, owned by Al Sasser, was the first Kolb in the US to be
fitted with the Verner 4-stroke engine. It was flown for a couple of years
by Steve Flynn of Central Florida Flyers (US distributors for Verner
engines, near Orlando) as CFF's demo plane. I flew in that plane once with
Steve, and it's what sold me on the Verner engine - I have one in my
Mark-III also. (I should have gotten Steve F. to teach me how to LAND the
airplane, though!)
Dennis Kirby
Cedar Crest, NM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Wing rib cleanup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com
Fellow members
I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My question
is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing
spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that
slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches that I
believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical stab
was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a
very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles.
Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very
effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any scratches
if you did slide them back off?
Thanks for any tips
R Williams
Message 4
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| Subject: | Wing rib cleanup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@motorola.com>
R,
It is not necessary to slide the ribs off to clean up the rivet holes, this routine
is not instructed in the/my Kolb manual. Drill and rivet the ribs on. If
you feel you need to slide the ribs off again, use grease and spread it on the
spar tube, as suggested in the Kolb manual. I used grease to slide them on
and was very surprised how well it worked to alleviate scratches and gulling
on the main spar.
Regards,
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: RWilliJill@aol.com [mailto:RWilliJill@aol.com]
Subject: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup
--> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com
Fellow members
I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My question
is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing
spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that
slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches that I
believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical stab
was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a
very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles.
Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very
effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any scratches
if you did slide them back off?
Thanks for any tips
R Williams
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wing rib cleanup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Well there was no way to avoid some scratches, minor ones. I buffed most of
them out using some very find and compatible sand paper. I also lubed the
spar with high pressure oil and I made sure that when I pulled the ribs off
I did it along the axis of the spar. I figured that out after some
scratching when I tried rotating the ribs while pulling them out. If you
gonna scratch do it along the grain. :-)
Also you may want to take your debarring tool and run it along the rib
ring edge. It will take the sharp corners out of it, and it will be less
prone to scratch. But if you want to avoid any scratches at all, I don't
know if its possible.
=============================================
> Fellow members
> I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My question
> is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing
> spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that
> slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches that I
> believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical stab
> was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a
> very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles.
> Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very
> effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any scratches
> if you did slide them back off?
>
> Thanks for any tips
> R Williams
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wing rib cleanup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
On page 502 of the new Aircraft Spruce catalog, is a de-burring tool - p.n.
12-00700 for $14.35. You'll also want a bunch of the 12-00800, #10
de-burring blades, 'cause you WILL break them. This tool is indispensable
when building, for de-burring inside, and outside of the holes. It takes a
little practise, but EVERY hole you drill should be de-burred. The rivets
will pull down tighter, and stay tighter longer. For an example, take a
couple pieces of flat scrap, drill thru them with moderate pressure, and
look at where the drill came thru. When you tighten a rivet in a mess like
that, the burred edges will break away later, under pressure and vibration,
and the rivet will loosen. Yes, de-burring does get tedious. On the wing
rib holes, you should be able to leave the ribs pretty much in place, and
work thru the hole with the tool. If not, move them a minimum distance.
Before you slide the ribs on, clean up and polish all sharp edges
thoroughly, and, as has been said, lubricate them and slide them on. Also,
try each rib for tightness on the spar............the holes do vary
slightly. Put the loosest ones on 1st, and the tighter ones last. I did
mine like this, and have very little scratching. Any deep scratches on the
spar should be polished out, as they are stress risers. I went into quite a
bit of detail on all this in "Building Vamoose" in my web-site, below.
Have Fun ! ! ! GoGittum Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <RWilliJill@aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com
>
> Fellow members
> I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My
question
> is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the
wing
> spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that
> slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches
that I
> believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical
stab
> was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a
> very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles.
> Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very
> effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any
scratches
> if you did slide them back off?
>
> Thanks for any tips
> R Williams
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wing rib cleanup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@sw.rr.com>
R Williams/Gang:
A few of my thoughts on wing ribs.
> > Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing
> > spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that
> > slide over the spar?
Don't think I would do that. In fact, I do not
move the ribs, once I start drilling the main spar
flanges. Drill and pop a rivet.
> > Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a
> > very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles.
It is probably too late for you, but a way to
prevent the above is drill the tail post/tail boom
collar first. Then debur the inside of the
collar.
A little more info on main spar tubes and wing
ribs. No two main spar 5 or 6 inch tubes are the
same diameter. In fact, most are not the same
diameter at both ends. It is the nature of the
beast, or of the mandrel formed tube of that
size. If a main spar flange is a little too large
and fits loosely over the main spar, it is not a
big problem, unless it is really loose. If it is
a tight, even a little bit tight, then....... that
is a big problem. Gonna cause some scratching if
forced onto and up a main spar tube. A way to fix
this is inlarge the main spar flange. Pretty
simple to do. Don't even have to go to school to
learn how to do it. Make yourself a rolling pin
out of some scrap aluminum or steel tubing, i.e.,
slip a larger diamter tube over a slightly smaller
tube similar to a baker's rolling pin. Hold the
rib between your knees or someone else's knees or
a vise, and roll the inside of the main spar
flange. Voila!! The inside diameter is getting
larger. Be careful. It gets larger quickly and
we don't want to make it too big. A couple times
around the inside of the hole will probably do
it. Just big enough to slip onto the main spar
tube. No need for special grease, high pressure
oil, pig fat, or anything else that has to be
cleaned up later.
My two cents worth for what it is
worth.......................
john h
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing rib cleanup |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com
Thanks for the input. I think got the info I need.
R Williams
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 02/03/03 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "VIC" <vicw@vcn.com>
Thanks Jim for the update on Adriel's Palo Alto adventure. My original post
was not meant to pass judgment on Adriel's flight; it was simply to report
what I heard on the radio and also to point out to anyone wishing to fly
west of Buckeye to be aware of some of the restrictions that are in effect
in that area and warn everyone that Sheriff Joe Apiaro is not easy to get
along with.
I fly from Pierce aviation which is spray plane field about 4 miles east of
the town of Buckeye. Pierce (on the chart) has a 3400 east/west strip and
they are ultralight friendly. Please keep in mind that spray planes don't
have radios or follow the normal rules and are working for a living, not
flying for fun. Just be aware and fly a standard pattern. I have learned
that "nice and polite" keeps the welcome mat out.
I keep my Kolb at Pierce in a tarp covered trailer under the north shelter.
If you are in the area and need gas, I keep a 5 gallon gas can bundied to
the trailer tongue and your are welcome to use the gas can to go to the
Texaco station which is 1/4 mile north of the air strip. They pump a lot of
91 and so it stays fresh. I live about 10 minutes away and my phone number
is 605 298-2686 if you land there and need assistance.
Vic
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