---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/04/03: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:37 AM - Re: Rotax 532 (johnjung@compusenior.com) 2. 10:49 AM - Re: Twinstar/MarkIII (Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM) 3. 12:44 PM - Wing rib cleanup (RWilliJill@aol.com) 4. 01:11 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 5. 04:18 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (CaptainRon) 6. 05:39 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (Larry Bourne) 7. 06:01 PM - Wing rib cleanup (John Hauck) 8. 07:20 PM - Re: Wing rib cleanup (RWilliJill@aol.com) 9. 07:32 PM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 02/03/03 (VIC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:02 AM PST US From: "johnjung@compusenior.com" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 532 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "johnjung@compusenior.com" Group, Tom is correct in the possibility that he brings up, (i.e. the connections could cause the problem). But in my experience, it is less likely than the gage or the probe, and it can be specifically tested for by putting things back to starting positions and seeing if the problem is back. If it is, it's not the connections. Just because there are many possible causes for a problem doesn't mean that they can't be sorted out with some patience. John Jung --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel > There is yet another possibility. The difficulty may be in the wiring not the engine, guage or probe. snip...... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:50 AM PST US From: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Twinstar/MarkIII --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM "Paul Petty" wrote: < we found a Twinstar Mark III ... data plate on the fuselage tube indicated that the builder was Allen Sasser from Jacksonville FL. And that the engine was a veneer? Any one know this fella or the plane? > Paul - The airplane you saw, owned by Al Sasser, was the first Kolb in the US to be fitted with the Verner 4-stroke engine. It was flown for a couple of years by Steve Flynn of Central Florida Flyers (US distributors for Verner engines, near Orlando) as CFF's demo plane. I flew in that plane once with Steve, and it's what sold me on the Verner engine - I have one in my Mark-III also. (I should have gotten Steve F. to teach me how to LAND the airplane, though!) Dennis Kirby Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:15 PM PST US From: RWilliJill@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup --> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com Fellow members I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My question is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches that I believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical stab was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles. Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any scratches if you did slide them back off? Thanks for any tips R Williams ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:11 PM PST US From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 R, It is not necessary to slide the ribs off to clean up the rivet holes, this routine is not instructed in the/my Kolb manual. Drill and rivet the ribs on. If you feel you need to slide the ribs off again, use grease and spread it on the spar tube, as suggested in the Kolb manual. I used grease to slide them on and was very surprised how well it worked to alleviate scratches and gulling on the main spar. Regards, Tim -----Original Message----- From: RWilliJill@aol.com [mailto:RWilliJill@aol.com] Subject: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup --> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com Fellow members I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My question is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches that I believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical stab was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles. Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any scratches if you did slide them back off? Thanks for any tips R Williams ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup From: CaptainRon --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Well there was no way to avoid some scratches, minor ones. I buffed most of them out using some very find and compatible sand paper. I also lubed the spar with high pressure oil and I made sure that when I pulled the ribs off I did it along the axis of the spar. I figured that out after some scratching when I tried rotating the ribs while pulling them out. If you gonna scratch do it along the grain. :-) Also you may want to take your debarring tool and run it along the rib ring edge. It will take the sharp corners out of it, and it will be less prone to scratch. But if you want to avoid any scratches at all, I don't know if its possible. ============================================= > Fellow members > I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My question > is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing > spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that > slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches that I > believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical stab > was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a > very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles. > Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very > effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any scratches > if you did slide them back off? > > Thanks for any tips > R Williams > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:55 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" On page 502 of the new Aircraft Spruce catalog, is a de-burring tool - p.n. 12-00700 for $14.35. You'll also want a bunch of the 12-00800, #10 de-burring blades, 'cause you WILL break them. This tool is indispensable when building, for de-burring inside, and outside of the holes. It takes a little practise, but EVERY hole you drill should be de-burred. The rivets will pull down tighter, and stay tighter longer. For an example, take a couple pieces of flat scrap, drill thru them with moderate pressure, and look at where the drill came thru. When you tighten a rivet in a mess like that, the burred edges will break away later, under pressure and vibration, and the rivet will loosen. Yes, de-burring does get tedious. On the wing rib holes, you should be able to leave the ribs pretty much in place, and work thru the hole with the tool. If not, move them a minimum distance. Before you slide the ribs on, clean up and polish all sharp edges thoroughly, and, as has been said, lubricate them and slide them on. Also, try each rib for tightness on the spar............the holes do vary slightly. Put the loosest ones on 1st, and the tighter ones last. I did mine like this, and have very little scratching. Any deep scratches on the spar should be polished out, as they are stress risers. I went into quite a bit of detail on all this in "Building Vamoose" in my web-site, below. Have Fun ! ! ! GoGittum Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup > --> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com > > Fellow members > I am in the process of building my first wing on a Firestar II. My question > is this. Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing > spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that > slide over the spar? I really hate to do that because of the scratches that I > believe will occur to the spar when I slide them back off. The vertical stab > was a case in point. Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a > very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles. > Besides, you really can't clean the ones inside the wingspar very > effectively. What did some of you fellows do and did you get any scratches > if you did slide them back off? > > Thanks for any tips > R Williams > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:51 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck R Williams/Gang: A few of my thoughts on wing ribs. > > Is it absolutely necessary to take the wing ribs back off the wing > > spar to clean up the holes that are to be drilled in the rib flanges that > > slide over the spar? Don't think I would do that. In fact, I do not move the ribs, once I start drilling the main spar flanges. Drill and pop a rivet. > > Just pulling the steel ring off the the boom tube a > > very short distance, produced some nasty scrapes from the metal particles. It is probably too late for you, but a way to prevent the above is drill the tail post/tail boom collar first. Then debur the inside of the collar. A little more info on main spar tubes and wing ribs. No two main spar 5 or 6 inch tubes are the same diameter. In fact, most are not the same diameter at both ends. It is the nature of the beast, or of the mandrel formed tube of that size. If a main spar flange is a little too large and fits loosely over the main spar, it is not a big problem, unless it is really loose. If it is a tight, even a little bit tight, then....... that is a big problem. Gonna cause some scratching if forced onto and up a main spar tube. A way to fix this is inlarge the main spar flange. Pretty simple to do. Don't even have to go to school to learn how to do it. Make yourself a rolling pin out of some scrap aluminum or steel tubing, i.e., slip a larger diamter tube over a slightly smaller tube similar to a baker's rolling pin. Hold the rib between your knees or someone else's knees or a vise, and roll the inside of the main spar flange. Voila!! The inside diameter is getting larger. Be careful. It gets larger quickly and we don't want to make it too big. A couple times around the inside of the hole will probably do it. Just big enough to slip onto the main spar tube. No need for special grease, high pressure oil, pig fat, or anything else that has to be cleaned up later. My two cents worth for what it is worth....................... john h ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:58 PM PST US From: RWilliJill@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing rib cleanup --> Kolb-List message posted by: RWilliJill@aol.com Thanks for the input. I think got the info I need. R Williams Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:35 PM PST US From: "VIC" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 02/03/03 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "VIC" Thanks Jim for the update on Adriel's Palo Alto adventure. My original post was not meant to pass judgment on Adriel's flight; it was simply to report what I heard on the radio and also to point out to anyone wishing to fly west of Buckeye to be aware of some of the restrictions that are in effect in that area and warn everyone that Sheriff Joe Apiaro is not easy to get along with. I fly from Pierce aviation which is spray plane field about 4 miles east of the town of Buckeye. Pierce (on the chart) has a 3400 east/west strip and they are ultralight friendly. Please keep in mind that spray planes don't have radios or follow the normal rules and are working for a living, not flying for fun. Just be aware and fly a standard pattern. I have learned that "nice and polite" keeps the welcome mat out. I keep my Kolb at Pierce in a tarp covered trailer under the north shelter. If you are in the area and need gas, I keep a 5 gallon gas can bundied to the trailer tongue and your are welcome to use the gas can to go to the Texaco station which is 1/4 mile north of the air strip. They pump a lot of 91 and so it stays fresh. I live about 10 minutes away and my phone number is 605 298-2686 if you land there and need assistance. Vic Do Not Archive