Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: Rotax parts ()
2. 05:06 AM - Snow and other topics (Ed Steuber)
3. 05:23 AM - Re: "Football" fuel tanks (dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford))
4. 05:46 AM - Re: Brake lines (Peter Volum)
5. 07:28 AM - Sun n fun (Timandjan@aol.com)
6. 07:45 AM - larry (boyd young)
7. 08:45 AM - Mk-3 FOR SALE (Terry McCurry)
8. 08:46 AM - brake lines (boyd young)
9. 08:47 AM - Thrust line (Kirk Smith)
10. 09:35 AM - Re: Thrust line (Christopher Armstrong)
11. 09:56 AM - Re: Thrust line (Kirk Smith)
12. 10:05 AM - Re: Rotax parts (Richard Pike)
13. 10:33 AM - Re: Rotax parts (Peter Volum)
14. 10:45 AM - Re: woody props (SR3SA2L1@aol.com)
15. 10:58 AM - Re: Thrust line (CaptainRon)
16. 11:52 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 02/19/03 (JaGifford@aol.com)
17. 12:46 PM - Re: Thrust line (Kirk Smith)
18. 01:40 PM - Re: Brake Lines (jerb)
19. 02:32 PM - Re: Thrust line (Christopher Armstrong)
20. 02:44 PM - Re: woody props (woody)
21. 02:58 PM - nose heavy (boyd young)
22. 05:24 PM - Re: Brake Lines (DAVID STROBERG)
23. 06:25 PM - IVOPROP Pitch (ALLENB007@aol.com)
24. 06:41 PM - Re: IVOPROP Pitch (Beauford Tuton)
25. 10:28 PM - Non-Kolb (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax parts
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > My only concern about that is that the next time you need free tech
support,
> > will the Sea Doo guy give it to you? I bet Lockwood would.
> >
> > Tom Olenik
> > Olenik Aviation
> > http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com
> > 877-AIR-MOTORS
>
> Tom/Gang:
>
> Is it really "free tech support"?
>
> john h
>
Lets see, I dial the phone, Tom Olinik, Roger Zerkle, or maybe Phil Lockwood
answer their phone, I ask a question, they give me good answers and we have
an intellegent conversation, I hang up the phone satisfied with my answer
and knowing that I have learned somthing valuable for having called. Other
than Linda hitting the roof when the long distance bill arrives, :-O the
tech support was free. Payed in full when I purchase a product from a
person who supports this tiny market.
Denny Rowe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Snow and other topics |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
Hey Mike in W. V.
We get hammered almost every year with large amounts of "lake effect" snows
but the last two were very easy...this one makes up for it but the cold is
the real problem. "Global Warming" is best described by the Spanish words .....Eltoro
Poo Poo !... I can usually sum up how severe the winter has been by
how many times my snow blower broke down....many , many this year and it is now
in my shop after both wheels just fell off....no joke...the axle broke in half.
If it wasn't for the fluorescent lights and the Kolb in my shop I would
be in the NY State Rubber Room.......I am really looking forward to Sun & Fun
and meeting some of the Listers at the Kolb tent and seeing the...... S U N......
again.
Ed in Western NY
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: "Football" fuel tanks |
message of Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:56:15 -0800
--> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford)
ASAP's Chinook has been using two of these strut-mounted tanks for
years with no apparent problems. The distance from the pulse pump
exceeds recommendations but apparently works. If you were to use this
system and fold the wings regularly, it might present some problems. I
don't think I'd like to repeatedly connect the fuel lines.....to much
room for leaks and loose fittings. Maybe use this location to haul
"spare" gas...no plumbing, just fuel to refill with at remote locations.
Or.....how about mounting one of these footballs on either side of the
engine over the center gap seal........make it look like a little
mini-Warthog. Then hang a couple Sidewinders on each strut.....a 50
cal. between the gear legs....new coat of Poly-Tone camo....
I gotta quit this stuff.....been watchin' too much MSNBC.....
Denny, we aren't too far apart.....maybe this summer we could get
together. You aren't too far from Dennis Souder. Ever run into him?
Mike in WV
do not archive
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
Thanks very much Dick.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Neitzel [mailto:neitzel@newnorth.net]
Subject: Brake lines
Hello Peter
I have Matco brakes and have not installed the tubing as yet but the
tubing supplied by Matco is labeled: PARKER PARFLEX 1/4 O. D. X .035
Wall 425 W.P. Not sure of the material, it is translucent and
fairly stiff. There are a couple of other numbers on the tubing that
could be a stock or part number. Not sure if it will help but those
numbers are: UL94HB 5012043 I am assuming the 425 is the PSI
working pressure so anything that you can find that meets or exceeds
what Matco supplies should work fine.
Hope this helps good luck with your project
Dick Neitzel Sayner WI Mark III 582 neitzel@newnorth.net
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com
Lots of talk earlier about sun in fun.
I plan to fly in commercially to Tampa, rent a car and hit the show. Planing
to fly in Wed and leave Saturday. I plan to get a room somewhere, or camp. Is
anybody doing the same and might want to get together. Is anybody planning to
camp at a place where I might join in. I can bring a tent etc. Just use a
corner of the camp site.
Last year I went for a few days in my RV, had to pay for the entire week to
camp and get a parking pass, no biggy, but not worth it for me to only be
there for a few day this year. (you can't just camp for a few nights like at
Oshkosh, have to pay for the entire week) SInce I plan to get a car, if you
flew in, maybe I could use your pass to park and in return I would be glad to
shuttle around for food, restaurants etc. I usually go from sunrise to
sunset, only need a place to sleep and shower.
Anybody interested???
Let me know.
Tim in VA.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
My buddies....................faith in the Lar. The
pain....................... Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
larry,,,,,,,,, larry larry larry
we got faith in ya,,,, cu in may for the southern utah xcountry..
boyd
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry McCurry <terrymccurry@yahoo.com>
Hello Guys, would you please pass the word that a
friend and I have a very nice MARK-3 for sale with a
fairly new, blue head rotax engine (approx.71 hrs).
The airplane has always been hangered and is in
excellent condition. The location is Greenwood SC
County Airport. We are asking $16500 OBO. For more
info or photos, please e-mail me or Tim at
slingshot284th@yahoo.com.
Thanks for your help TDM
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
for brake lines for the matco brake why not call matco, they are in salt lake
city ut.
boyd
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Group,
Would the optimum thrust line be parallel with the bottom of the wing? Thanks!
Kirk
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <cen33475@CenturyTel.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kirk Smith
Subject: Kolb-List: Thrust line
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Group,
Would the optimum thrust line be parallel with the bottom of the wing?
Thanks! Kirk
thrust should be directly forwards in the cruise attitude, for best cruise
performance, or in the climb attitude for best climb performance. ussually
closer to cruise attitude is chosen, which will be a couple, maybe 5 degrees
aoa on the wing. so slightly below the level of the bottom of the wing.
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
OK....Thanks Much! Kirk
> thrust should be directly forwards in the cruise attitude, for best cruise
> performance, or in the climb attitude for best climb performance.
ussually
> closer to cruise attitude is chosen, which will be a couple, maybe 5
degrees
> aoa on the wing. so slightly below the level of the bottom of the wing.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
At 03:01 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
>
>Richard, was there a difference in price?
>
>Peter
Found a current online parts price list for Rotax U/L engines to
compare with Rotax Bombardier parts bought at the local SeaDoo dealer:
The base gasket between the cylinders and crankcase cost $7.62.
U/L cost is $12.54
The water pump gasket cost $3.08, U/L cost is $3.79.
SeaDoo Mag end oil seal cost $9.32, U/L cost is $18.63 (100%)
These parts all had the same Rotax part #, or had been changed to use a
new common number.
Now if only Bombardier will start using the 912 & 914 in a jet boat, all
us aviators might get to see the cost of flying come down to a reasonable
level.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
This could be worth pursuing Richard...
The guy who sells starters for Rotax Engines (GPL) also sells Rotax
engines for Hovercrafts (including the 912, although admittedly not the
912UL).
If the parts for non-UL 912's really are the same ones as those for
912UL's, and if the only difference is $$$, then for non-critical
components one may well be able to save a considerable amount of dough.
I would still feel better about buying critical components from a
distributor of the aviation series of engines just in case there is a
difference though.
Peter
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Found a current online parts price list for Rotax U/L engines to
compare with Rotax Bombardier parts bought at the local SeaDoo dealer:
The base gasket between the cylinders and crankcase cost $7.62.
U/L cost is $12.54
The water pump gasket cost $3.08, U/L cost is $3.79.
SeaDoo Mag end oil seal cost $9.32, U/L cost is $18.63 (100%)
These parts all had the same Rotax part #, or had been changed to use a
new common number.
Now if only Bombardier will start using the 912 & 914 in a jet boat,
all
us aviators might get to see the cost of flying come down to a
reasonable
level.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: SR3SA2L1@aol.com
You may want to look in "Kit Planes" mag for the computer program to do this.
do not archieve
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
2/21/03 9:45Kirk Smith
>
> Group,
>
> Would the optimum thrust line be parallel with the bottom of the wing?
> Thanks! Kirk
===============================
Good question, and one that I have been pondering over for a while.
Essentially the optimum thrust line is somewhere between the center of
gravity of the Kolb on its longtitudenal axis and its center of drag. Eye
balling it would place the prop hub somehwere, where the lower back of your
neck would be with the engine mounted. That would call for a real small prop
and I would guess about 5 blades for an M3X. I think the Verner is the only
one that I was told where you can move the reduction unit either up or down.
What do you have in mind?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 02/19/03 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: JaGifford@aol.com
Please change my address to jagifford@charter.net
Thanks,
Jack
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
.
> What do you have in mind?
Ron,
Topher answered my question. I needed to know the plane of the prop disk
relative to the bottom of the wing. Whether it was perpendicular or the
directional vector of thrust was into the X+ Y- quadrant. Still
thinking..........Snuffy
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
This brings up a good question - what are you using for the brake fluid -
normally small aircraft do not use the conventional brake fluid as it is
very corrosive, the fluid used resembles automatic transmission fluid. In
fact that works very well.
Jerry
At 10:30 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "DAVID STROBERG" <dgstro@greenvillenc.com>
>
>Pete, I've been using 18 wheeler 1/4 " air brake tubing with no detoration
>with the 5606 fluid. They have some very nice brass compression fittings
>that fit just right on the Matcos. Most any good auto parts place will have
>em. Price is very reasonable. (hanging here till the 12th of March.) !!
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
>To: "Kolb (Kolb)" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: Brake Lines
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
> >
> > Gentlemen:
> >
> > I need to change my brake lines.
> >
> > Checked the Aircraft Spruce catalog but I'm not sure what material to
> > get. Their "Nylo-Seal" Tubing (1/4" OD, 0.50 Burst Wall) and "Poly-Flo"
> > tubing (1/4" OD, 0.04 Burst Wall) sound right, but I would like to be
> > sure.
> >
> > The tubing I'm replacing (I have Matco brakes) measures 1/4" OD. The
> > specs on the Nylo-Seal state that it is suitable for hydraulic lines
> > "except" in the 1/4" and 3/8" sizes"(?!), so... is the Poly-Flo the one
> > to get? Or something else all together?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" <cen33475@CenturyTel.net>
Essentially the optimum thrust line is somewhere between the center of
gravity of the Kolb on its longtitudenal axis and its center of drag.
thrust overcomes drag, so if you do not want to have a pitch change with
throttle change then you want the thrust line to go through the center of
drag. On Kolbs that have very high thrust lines you need to understand that
at low throttle settings the prop has almost as much drag as the plane.
what this means is that the center of drag is moving up and down with
throttle setting, exagerating the pitch effect of just changing power. The
plane rotates about its center of gravity, so sending the thrust line
through the cg would result in no change of pitch with change in thrust only
if you were also flying directly in that direction, and there was no change
in drag with power setting. You never would be flying in that direction in
a kolb, you would be stalled and falling in that direction! if your flying
at a reasonable angle of attack and the prop disk was pointed down enough to
hit the cg the prop disk would be canted to the airflow significantly,
creating a pfactor and a down force at the prop, which would cause a nose up
pitching moment, because the thrust line would not be in line with the
normal to the prop disk, cause the prop disk is at an angle of attack. so
you you would actually line up the thrust line with the cg not the normal
(perpendicular) to the prop disk, they are not the same, which is why most
engines are mounted on planes at weird angles. usually 1 to 3 degrees to
the right and a degree or 2 down. This is also why Rutan's boomerang is
actually more symetrical airplane then a standard twn even though it looks
asymetrical. Props dont generate thrust from the center of the prop hub
unless they are at zero aoa. in a climb you have the prop disk at an aoa
and the thrust is coming from 8 or more inches off center. when you take
the details like that into account you design an airplane that looks
assymetric but is really symetrical aerodynamically.
opps, rambled on and on again, probably causing more confusion then clarity!
topher
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
At 05:49 PM 2/20/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong"
><cen33475@CenturyTel.net>
>
>actually it has to be a debate on the materials as well.
Not really. I am going to carve a wood prop.
At the risk of sounding self centered - this is about what I want :) For
now I want to know more about performance of the wood props and dip into
the collective consciousness of the group to find past experience. I do
understand the advantages of composite but that has nothing to do with my
next little project.
>the reason a
>composite prop can be so thin and have such small chord ans thickness
>airfoils is it is extremely strong and very light.
Are composite props really lighter. I thought they ended up heavier
after the hub was added to the equation.
>you will be able to make a very good prop out of wood,
>but because it hase to have more material in it just to survive structurally
>you will not be able to make as good a prop as a well made composite prop.
I am thinking just the opposite. A well made wood prop will surpass the
"one twist (pitch progression) fits all pitches" philosophies of ground
adjustable props.
>and yes the biggest you can make the prop the more efficent it will be, as
>long as the tips do not reach critical mach number, which means you need a
>really good reduction drive ratio. as airfoil thickness increases critical
>mach goes down so a wood prop cant spin as fast or have as large a diameter
>as a thinner composite prop.
I will be installing this on a Jabiru with no reduction. My calculations
call for a 60 30. Jabi suggests a 58 44 using a rule of thumb of 1"
diameter = 2 degrees pitch we can see that my calculations are off a bit to
Jabiru. I will probably go with the 60 " prop. The main difference is that
I used a top speed of 85. I probably should have substituted a higher
number in there. How fast can a mk 111 go?
>Topher
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
attention all mark III drivers
i have had some conversations with TNK about how my mk III feels nose
heavy when i have a passenger on board. and that i feel that i dont have
enough control authority with the elevator at low speeds. especially with
the engine at idle. when flying solo i have no problems.... has anyone
elce had the same problems or feelings?
john i found this in the archives could you explain further..
>Lar/Bob G/Gents:
>
>In that situation I would keep power on and maintain a good
>margin of airspeed to keep air flowing over the elevator. I
>got into a situation similar to that at Lakeland in the old
>factory MK III with the 912 installed. Had never flown it
>with 912 and dual controls. Passenger was rather large. I
>never got below 75 mph, flew around the patch once and
>touched down at 75. Not a good feeling.
>
>john h
boyd
if you reply on list please send a copy to me direct.
mailto:by0ung@brigham.net
Message 22
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "DAVID STROBERG" <dgstro@greenvillenc.com>
Been using mil-spec. 5606G Hyd. fluid. Aircraft Spruce carries it in pints
quarts or gallons. Does;t eat up the "o"ring seals used in Matco's brakes.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brake Lines
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
>
> This brings up a good question - what are you using for the brake fluid -
> normally small aircraft do not use the conventional brake fluid as it is
> very corrosive, the fluid used resembles automatic transmission fluid. In
> fact that works very well.
> Jerry
>
> At 10:30 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "DAVID STROBERG"
<dgstro@greenvillenc.com>
> >
> >Pete, I've been using 18 wheeler 1/4 " air brake tubing with no
detoration
> >with the 5606 fluid. They have some very nice brass compression fittings
> >that fit just right on the Matcos. Most any good auto parts place will
have
> >em. Price is very reasonable. (hanging here till the 12th of March.) !!
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
> >To: "Kolb (Kolb)" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Kolb-List: Brake Lines
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
> > >
> > > Gentlemen:
> > >
> > > I need to change my brake lines.
> > >
> > > Checked the Aircraft Spruce catalog but I'm not sure what material to
> > > get. Their "Nylo-Seal" Tubing (1/4" OD, 0.50 Burst Wall) and
"Poly-Flo"
> > > tubing (1/4" OD, 0.04 Burst Wall) sound right, but I would like to be
> > > sure.
> > >
> > > The tubing I'm replacing (I have Matco brakes) measures 1/4" OD. The
> > > specs on the Nylo-Seal state that it is suitable for hydraulic lines
> > > "except" in the 1/4" and 3/8" sizes"(?!), so... is the Poly-Flo the
one
> > > to get? Or something else all together?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ALLENB007@aol.com
Kolbers,
Can you tell me which way to turn the bolt on a Kolb pusher standing behind
the plane and facing the prop. Is it clockwise or counterclockwise to ADD
pitch?
Thanks in advance for your reply/replies,
Allen
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: IVOPROP Pitch |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford Tuton" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Think of the bolt as the prop control knob on a cockpit pedestal... screw
the bolt in (forward toward the front of the plane) to increase RPM, screw
it out (pull it back toward the tail) to decrease RPM...
There is a tad of free play slop in mine before it actually engages the
cams, but you can feel it when it begins to actually touch and start having
effect...
Good Luck...
Beauford
----- Original Message -----
From: <ALLENB007@aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: IVOPROP Pitch
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: ALLENB007@aol.com
>
> Kolbers,
>
> Can you tell me which way to turn the bolt on a Kolb pusher standing
behind
> the plane and facing the prop. Is it clockwise or counterclockwise to ADD
> pitch?
>
> Thanks in advance for your reply/replies,
> Allen
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Do not Archive.
Can anyone out there get me a list of STC's for that old 1941 Piper J-5 that I'm
still trying to buy ?? A minor (??) problem has arisen. Please reply off List.
To keep this Kolb related, Vamoose is covered, and
now I gotta catch up and finish rivetting the ailerons & flaps onto the wings,
then finish getting the engine back running. Almost time ! ! !
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
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