---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/23/03: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:32 AM - Thrust line (Kirk Smith) 2. 03:18 PM - Re: IVOPROP Pitch (Bill Vincent) 3. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: IVOPROP Pitch (Beauford Tuton) 4. 03:49 PM - Re: Brake Lines (John Hauck) 5. 04:05 PM - Re: nose heavy (John Hauck) 6. 04:20 PM - digest (Clay Stuart) 7. 04:25 PM - Setting / pitching your prop (John J. Peters) 8. 04:41 PM - Re: digest (Don Gherardini) 9. 04:42 PM - Re: digest (Jack Carillon) 10. 04:44 PM - Kolb New Pilot Question (Alderson, James) 11. 04:45 PM - Re: digest (John Hauck) 12. 05:19 PM - Re: Rotax parts (Tom Olenik) 13. 05:25 PM - Re: Kolb New Pilot Question (SGreenpg@aol.com) 14. 05:36 PM - Re: Rotax parts (Tom Olenik) 15. 05:56 PM - Re: digest (Matt Dralle) 16. 06:18 PM - Re: Kolb New Pilot Question (John Williamson) 17. 06:24 PM - Re:MEK (Timandjan@aol.com) 18. 06:48 PM - Re: Kolb New Pilot Question (Alderson, James) 19. 07:27 PM - Re: Re:MEK (JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS) 20. 07:28 PM - Re: digest (JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS) 21. 07:30 PM - Re: Rotax parts (JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS) 22. 07:46 PM - Re: Rotax parts (Tom Olenik) 23. 07:58 PM - Re: Kolb New Pilot Question (woody) 24. 08:36 PM - Booster Bottle & Bing - Update #2 (Jack & Louise Hart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:30 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: Thrust line --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Just wanted to thank everybody for the info on thrust lines. Got a better grasp of it now. Anybody want this snow??? No charge...... Snuffy DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:28 PM PST US From: Bill Vincent Subject: Kolb-List: Re: IVOPROP Pitch --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent Hi Allen On my Ivo Prop I turn the bolt counterclockwise to ADD pitch. Bill Vincent Firestar II Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan Do Not Archive ALLENB007@aol.com wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ALLENB007@aol.com > > Kolbers, > > Can you tell me which way to turn the bolt on a Kolb pusher standing behind > the plane and facing the prop. Is it clockwise or counterclockwise to ADD > pitch? > > Thanks in advance for your reply/replies, > Allen > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:17 PM PST US From: "Beauford Tuton" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: IVOPROP Pitch --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford Tuton" Howdy, Bill.... Mine too.... Read 'er one more time.... Regards, Beauford do not archive... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Vincent" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: IVOPROP Pitch > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent > > Hi Allen > > On my Ivo Prop I turn the bolt counterclockwise to ADD pitch. > > Bill Vincent > Firestar II > Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan > > Do Not Archive > > > ALLENB007@aol.com wrote: > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: ALLENB007@aol.com > > > > Kolbers, > > > > Can you tell me which way to turn the bolt on a Kolb pusher standing behind > > the plane and facing the prop. Is it clockwise or counterclockwise to ADD > > pitch? > > > > Thanks in advance for your reply/replies, > > Allen > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:26 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Brake Lines --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck the fluid used resembles automatic transmission fluid. In > fact that works very well. > Jerry Jerry/Kolbers: IIRC, MATCO and the other folks that made disc brakes, way back in the 80's :-) recommended ATF, the red stuff. I have always used it and it is in my MATCO brakes on my MK III now. In fact, I used Wal*Mart ATF last time. john h ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:25 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: nose heavy --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > i have had some conversations with TNK about how my mk III feels nose > heavy when i have a passenger on board. and that i feel that i dont have > enough control authority with the elevator at low speeds. especially with > the engine at idle. > john i found this in the archives could you explain further.. > boyd Boyd/Kolbers: That particular flight was in an unfamiliar airplane and a very large passenger, that was not exactly 100% honest about his weight. Whenever I fly someone who is large, I ask them their weight in order to have some idea how the airplane is going to react. In this case, rather than take a chance on running out of elevator, which I doubt seriously I would, I maintained 75 mph until back on the ground. Why take a chance of hurting both of us? My MK III was rigged so that the highest position of the horizontal stabilizer is an inch or so lower than specs call for. It is 3 poisiton adjustable. I normally fly it in the middle position or about 1.5 to 2.0 inches lower than standard. I do not know what the maximum pilot passenger weight would be. To be safe, I back off when requested to fly a really large passenger. On one occassion I had to abort a takeoff in the Mark III, about midfield, Oshkosh UL airstrip, taking off to the north, uphill. He was a lopper. His sides lopped over the aileron torque tube on my side of the airplane. He also lied to me about his weight. Then there was another guy that damned got us killed because I made a poor decision and decided to fly him at Oskosh. I'll save that one for private, screened audiences. :-) john h ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:22 PM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: digest --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Was there a digest for 2-22-03? I didn't get any messages but my email was down for several hours. If there was one, could someone kindly forward it to me. Is there normally a local source for MEK? Would an industrial cleaning supply house carry it? I was trying to save hazardous shipping charges. Thanks, Clay Stuart building Mark IIIXtra ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:54 PM PST US From: "John J. Peters" Subject: Kolb-List: Setting / pitching your prop --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John J. Peters" Sears sells a square or pitch gage for framing that has a compass with an arrow that hangs like a pendgelum giving you an accurate reading when rotated out of square or plumb . With your two blade prop horizontal and placing this gage perpendicular to the blade ( vertical ) at the tip of each blade it will give you the pitch of that blade , and then doing the same on the opposite blade without rotating the prop , you'll get a totally different reading , but by adding these readings together and dividing by two you'll have the exact pitch of the prop in degress , which for kolbs is approx 10 - 12 degrees . By using this method it doesn't matter what the attitude of the plane is , as long as the wheels are somewhere near level , to each other . NOTE : If you must have the same reading on each blade tip , the axis or shaft from your reduction drive has to be dead level , which is very difficult to check . I use this method to verify pitch , when setting up for floats , pitch is critical , as I have an in - flight adjustable prop , and sometime lose trac of the setting . I hope this helps in some way . It sounds a whole lot more complicated than it is , but with a little practice , can be very useful if you document your settings . TopGunPI@att.net FS II on floats 503 DC DI S.E. Ma. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:29 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: digest --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Well Clay, I dont know where you are...but the ACE hardware carries MEK thinner here in the ACE brand...very economical...and usually any hardware store that has much paint supplies will have MEK.. if you are in the city...Menards..Lowes..Home depot..all have it http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Don Gherardini- FireFly 098 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:03 PM PST US From: Jack Carillon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: digest --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack Carillon Clay, Most large paint stores carry MEK. If you have a Sherwin Willams in your area I know they carry it. You might try an automotive paint supplier also. Jack Carillon Firestar II 503 Akron Oh. Clay Stuart wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > Was there a digest for 2-22-03? I didn't get any messages but my email was down for several hours. If there was one, could someone kindly forward it to me. > > Is there normally a local source for MEK? Would an industrial cleaning supply house carry it? I was trying to save hazardous shipping charges. > > Thanks, > Clay Stuart > building Mark IIIXtra > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:46 PM PST US From: "Alderson, James" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Alderson, James" Hello Kolbers, I was wondering if I can get some of you pilots to answer a question for me. I have found some instructors that instruct in Mark III's, the problem is that they are very far away from me. One is a 5 hour drive away, another is in West Palm Beach (which is tempting, but a flight/car rental/hotel expense) and the other is about 4 hours away but is selling his Kolb possibly before I get to him. So, my question is, do I need training specifically in a Kolb? How many of you didn't fly a Kolb, or a taildragger, before you flew your Kolb? I am a low time pilot (20 hrs GA, 15 hours Ultralight Trike) and the guys at my airport are saying I should just do some training hours (3-4) in the flightstar that they have for training there, along with letting the BFI fly the Firestar II so he can make sure that he understands what the differences will be. They say with my experience already, and some taxi tests (NO CROW HOPS!!!!) that I should be more than prepared to fly the Kolb. I am just a little nervous about flying it without any taildragger experience... am I crazy? I await your experience..... PS - Because of the winds today, I spent a few hours hugging, kissing, and sitting in the Firestar making plane noises....(yes, and machine gun noises). James Alderson ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:33 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: digest --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Is there normally a local source for MEK? Would an industrial cleaning supply house carry it? I was trying to save hazardous shipping charges. > > Thanks, > Clay Stuart Clay/Gang: Try Lowes, Home HQ, etc. I get mine at Lowes by the gal. john h ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:47 PM PST US From: "Tom Olenik" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Olenik" Denny, Customers who buy from me or have me overhaul engines get unlimited FREE tech support via a toll free number or e-mail. So there isn't even a phone bill. I actually enjoy helping people through their problems, but I do get a little frustrated when I am spending an hour on the phone with someone's local motorcycle mechanic, reading the Rotax manual to him about how to fit the pistons that they bought from CPS. That happens more than you might think. Companies like LEAF and Lockwood probably spend at least 40 + or - man hours per week answering tech questions with $15/hour + employees. No, it isn't free, and that cost is suppose to be covered in the money they make on engines and parts. If they are giving that support to someone who didn't buy there, then their other customers are footing the bill. BTW, I am holding in my hand a new parts price list for Rotax pars. Looks like about a 9% or 10% increases. It's amazing that I can buy three pistons for a 2SI 430FE-35 for the price of one 447 pistons assembly including all the same parts. I don't like Rotax prices any more than anyone else. It just hurts the repairman because people are less likely to want to do the job right and it increases our liability and even lowers our margin because we end up cutting labor rates to try to encourage people to do it right. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com 877-AIR-MOTORS DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of rowedl@highstream.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax parts > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > My only concern about that is that the next time you need free tech support, > > will the Sea Doo guy give it to you? I bet Lockwood would. > > > > Tom Olenik > > Olenik Aviation > > http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com > > 877-AIR-MOTORS > > Tom/Gang: > > Is it really "free tech support"? > > john h > Lets see, I dial the phone, Tom Olinik, Roger Zerkle, or maybe Phil Lockwood answer their phone, I ask a question, they give me good answers and we have an intellegent conversation, I hang up the phone satisfied with my answer and knowing that I have learned somthing valuable for having called. Other than Linda hitting the roof when the long distance bill arrives, :-O the tech support was free. Payed in full when I purchase a product from a person who supports this tiny market. Denny Rowe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:22 PM PST US From: SGreenpg@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: SGreenpg@aol.com In a message dated 2/23/03 7:45:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, James_Alderson@jdedwards.com writes: > They say with my experience already, and some taxi tests (NO CROW > HOPS!!!!) that I should be more than prepared to fly the Kolb. I am just a > little nervous about flying it without any taildragger experience... am I > James, Listen to your nerves. I don't know your skill level or what you have the 20 hours in, but if you have never flown a tailwheel plane and only have 3 axis time in a GA plane, I think your being nervous is a good thing. In a Kolb during taxi testing you need to be familiar with raising the tail (enough to keep it on the ground above flying speed) while hi speed taxing. It is amazing how fast a Kolb will leave the ground if you don't have the tail high enough. I would suggest at least getting some tailwheel training and then some transition time in a Kolb if possible. If you can, prop the tail of you plane up until the bottom of the wing is slightly lower at the leading edge than the trailing edge. This about the pitch attitude that you will need to taxi at if you get up any speed. With the price of nose cones and fabric covering what they are, training is a bargain. Hope this helps Steven Green Mark III N58SG ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:38 PM PST US From: "Tom Olenik" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Olenik" Actually, I am holding a new price list in my hand that just arrived. Now I am going to pay someone to work a full week updating all those 4000+ prices.....again. 582 base gasket, 850 775 $15.14. Does anyone know a gasket maker? I don't like these prices any better than anyone else. Nowhere in business can you raise your price and increase your bottom line........unless you have a monopoly. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com 877-247-6686 DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike At 03:01 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" > >Richard, was there a difference in price? > >Peter Found a current online parts price list for Rotax U/L engines to compare with Rotax Bombardier parts bought at the local SeaDoo dealer: The base gasket between the cylinders and crankcase cost $7.62. U/L cost is $12.54 The water pump gasket cost $3.08, U/L cost is $3.79. SeaDoo Mag end oil seal cost $9.32, U/L cost is $18.63 (100%) These parts all had the same Rotax part #, or had been changed to use a new common number. Now if only Bombardier will start using the 912 & 914 in a jet boat, all us aviators might get to see the cost of flying come down to a reasonable level. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:27 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: digest --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle At 04:19 PM 2/23/2003 Sunday, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > >Was there a digest for 2-22-03? I didn't get any messages but my email >was down for several hours. If there was one, could someone kindly >forward it to me. > >Is there normally a local source for MEK? Would an industrial cleaning >supply house carry it? I was trying to save hazardous shipping charges. > >Thanks, >Clay Stuart >building Mark IIIXtra Clay, Click on the link below labeled "browse digests". This will take you to a web page with all of the Kolb-List digests, newest at the top. Click on the one labeled "2003-02-22". Matt Dralle List Admin Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:53 PM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" James, and other Kolbers, Since you have a FireStar II, you have to provide more information to get the correct answer. Is the FireStar registered with the FAA (have an 'N' number on the tail)? Does it have more than one seat? Is the empty weight more than 254 pounds? Is the fuel capacity more than 5 gallons? If you answered NO to all the question, find a BFI or AFI and get some tail wheel training. Does not have to be a Kolb but should be a pusher configuration. If you answered YES to ANY of the questions, find a CFI and get some tail wheel training and endorsement in your logbook to allow you to fly your airplane. If you are around the Texas area, I would be glad to give you some time in my Kolbra. John Williamson CFI, CFII, ASEL, AMEL Arlington, TX N49KK, Kolb Kolbra, Jabiru 2200, 201 hours http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:14 PM PST US From: Timandjan@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re:MEK --> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com Lowes and Home Depot carry MEK. I think I might have even bought some at Walmart. A gallon should be about the same price as a gallon of Lacquer thinner. Any auto paint supply should also have it. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:20 PM PST US From: "Alderson, James" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Alderson, James" John, Thanks for the offer, I am not near Texas, but it has been too long since I have been there. It appears that the Kolbra would be a closer cousin to the firestar than a Mark III anyway with its tandem config. As far as your questions to me go, no, to all of them. No N Number, one seat, close to 400 lbs, and 10 gallons. However.... registered as a trainer with ASC and, before anyone asks, yes, the exemption that ASC has covers single place heavy trainers and I checked that with the FAA (check the ASC website under BFI/Solo Training). So, that means that my BFI can endorse me to solo training towards my ultralight license then my BFI, and I can do all that training in my Kolb Firestar II. Either way, it seems like training in a tailwheel would be a good idea... so its off to train I go, I just won't listen to the BFI's at the field that think I am crazy for not training on the flightstar and then just going for it... James -----Original Message----- From: John Williamson [mailto:kolbrapilot@attbi.com] Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" James, and other Kolbers, Since you have a FireStar II, you have to provide more information to get the correct answer. Is the FireStar registered with the FAA (have an 'N' number on the tail)? Does it have more than one seat? Is the empty weight more than 254 pounds? Is the fuel capacity more than 5 gallons? If you answered NO to all the question, find a BFI or AFI and get some tail wheel training. Does not have to be a Kolb but should be a pusher configuration. If you answered YES to ANY of the questions, find a CFI and get some tail wheel training and endorsement in your logbook to allow you to fly your airplane. If you are around the Texas area, I would be glad to give you some time in my Kolbra. John Williamson CFI, CFII, ASEL, AMEL Arlington, TX N49KK, Kolb Kolbra, Jabiru 2200, 201 hours http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot/ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:18 PM PST US From: "JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:MEK --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS" I've found that most building supply/paint stores carry MEK. Dale sellers ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kolb-List: Re:MEK > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com > > Lowes and Home Depot carry MEK. I think I might have even bought some at > Walmart. A gallon should be about the same price as a gallon of Lacquer > thinner. > > Any auto paint supply should also have it. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:49 PM PST US From: "JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: digest --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS" Try your local paint store. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: digest > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > At 04:19 PM 2/23/2003 Sunday, you wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" > > > >Was there a digest for 2-22-03? I didn't get any messages but my email > >was down for several hours. If there was one, could someone kindly > >forward it to me. > > > >Is there normally a local source for MEK? Would an industrial cleaning > >supply house carry it? I was trying to save hazardous shipping charges. > > > >Thanks, > >Clay Stuart > >building Mark IIIXtra > > > Clay, > > Click on the link below labeled "browse digests". This will take you to a > web page with all of the Kolb-List digests, newest at the top. Click on > the one labeled "2003-02-22". > > Matt Dralle > List Admin > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:15 PM PST US From: "JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JACKIE AND DALE SELLERS" Try Felpro. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Olenik" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax parts > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Olenik" > > Actually, I am holding a new price list in my hand that just arrived. Now I > am going to pay someone to work a full week updating all those 4000+ > prices.....again. > > > 582 base gasket, 850 775 $15.14. > > Does anyone know a gasket maker? I don't like these prices any better than > anyone else. Nowhere in business can you raise your price and increase your > bottom line........unless you have a monopoly. > > Tom Olenik > Olenik Aviation > http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com > 877-247-6686 > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax parts > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > > At 03:01 PM 2/20/03 -0500, you wrote: > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" > > > >Richard, was there a difference in price? > > > >Peter > Found a current online parts price list for Rotax U/L engines to > compare with Rotax Bombardier parts bought at the local SeaDoo dealer: > > The base gasket between the cylinders and crankcase cost $7.62. > U/L cost is $12.54 > The water pump gasket cost $3.08, U/L cost is $3.79. > SeaDoo Mag end oil seal cost $9.32, U/L cost is $18.63 (100%) > > These parts all had the same Rotax part #, or had been changed to use a > new common number. > > Now if only Bombardier will start using the 912 & 914 in a jet boat, all > us aviators might get to see the cost of flying come down to a reasonable > level. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:04 PM PST US From: "Tom Olenik" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Tom Olenik" You don't. In fact, I know for a fact that there was a company advertising "Genuine Rotax Pistons" in a magazine, but picturing Weisco pistons in their web page with the same heading. I overhaul a lot of engines the second time after someone else had it and see aftermarket parts in them all the time. Maybe someone thought they were getting the same parts from the snomo dealer, and in some cases they will be the same parts, but a snomo dealer has much less of a problem substituting parts than a UL dealer although some UL dealers DO make substitutions without the customer knowing. If they let the customer know what they are getting, I don't have much of a problem with it ethically, but to substitute something that is different without the customer knowing DOES happen. I saw some engines with broken rings that were purchased from a then very popular discount parts supplier. The rings were obviously not ELKO (the company that makes pistons and rings for Rotax). Really the only thing you have to go back on is the reputation of your source. If the gaskets have something other than the Rotax part number, that is a real tip off, but they can obviously get around that. Also, there are SOME parts that Rotax does not make that can be purchased outside of Rotax by vendors that are exactly the same parts are close enough..... A reputable source will tell you when it is such a part. For example: Rotax part number 866 705 is a spark plug connector cap that now retails for over $15 from Rotax. The cap is made by NGK and the exact same NGK part number is available outside Rotax for much less. I carry it for $3.95. The ONLY difference is the color. The OEM cap is maroon, and the aftermarket is black. I have dissected these very closely. They are identical. The only difference is the color. They have the same NGK part number on them even (LB05EZ). There are a few other examples as well, but if some people get their way with the light sport aircraft consensus standards, you will not be able to use that $3.95 cap and will be forced to buy the $15.88 cap which exactly the same. Guess what? I make about the same money on the $3.95 cap. So I would rather sell that one because we are then both winning, and I don't feel so guilty about it. Of course if tracability of parts is required for light sport airplanes, then this will not be an issue other than the inflated costs. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com 877-247-6686 DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jerb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax parts --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb How do you know your getting the "aviation grade" part from the aviation company and not the sled grade sold as and at the aviation prices? jerb At 01:32 PM 2/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" > >This could be worth pursuing Richard... > >The guy who sells starters for Rotax Engines (GPL) also sells Rotax >engines for Hovercrafts (including the 912, although admittedly not the >912UL). > >If the parts for non-UL 912's really are the same ones as those for >912UL's, and if the only difference is $$$, then for non-critical >components one may well be able to save a considerable amount of dough. > >I would still feel better about buying critical components from a >distributor of the aviation series of engines just in case there is a >difference though. > >Peter > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike >Found a current online parts price list for Rotax U/L engines to >compare with Rotax Bombardier parts bought at the local SeaDoo dealer: > >The base gasket between the cylinders and crankcase cost $7.62. >U/L cost is $12.54 >The water pump gasket cost $3.08, U/L cost is $3.79. >SeaDoo Mag end oil seal cost $9.32, U/L cost is $18.63 (100%) > >These parts all had the same Rotax part #, or had been changed to use a >new common number. > >Now if only Bombardier will start using the 912 & 914 in a jet boat, >all >us aviators might get to see the cost of flying come down to a >reasonable >level. > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:21 PM PST US From: woody Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: woody > > >my airport are saying I should just do some training hours (3-4) in the >flightstar that they have for training there, along with letting the BFI fly >the Firestar II so he can make sure that he understands what the differences >will be. They say with my experience already, and some taxi tests (NO CROW >HOPS!!!!) that I should be more than prepared to fly the Kolb. I am just a >little nervous about flying it without any taildragger experience... am I >crazy? Not crazy. When I built my Kolb Flyer I had no one to teach me and all I had flown before was a cessna to get my private pilot rating. I spent a whole day on the ground taxiing the little bird untill I could make it do anything I wanted. This plane did not even have a tail wheel. First flight was great and exciting. No real problem getting it down, just flew it down like I had been taught. Being a tail dragger is some what of a non issue. Before two seat Ultralights I taught a guy with no experience to fly in an ultra star. A friend had a firestar and asked me to test it for him. As it was his aircraft I suggested he taxi it up and down the strip once so he could have first honours. He gave it the gas and was airbourne before he knew what happened. He remembered my words of wisdom and made 3 approaches before he felt comfortable. His first words to me when he got out was that I was right. Being a tail dragger is a non issue. Of course this is just my opinion and I usually test the waters by jumping in with both feet. Let your conscience be your guide but from my experience it is not a difficult thing to do if you have limited experience ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:57 PM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Kolb-List: Booster Bottle & Bing - Update #2 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart There was a little window of opportunity to test the latest modifications to the throttle slide valve. I had closed the idle air cut out and drilled drain holes for the previously undrained portion of the slide valve. I installed the slide valve, pulled the FireFly out of the hangar and tied it to my pickup. It took too many turns to start, but when it did, it still idled at 2,300 rpm minimum. The hard start and the high idle indicates that my greatest fear was realized. With the throttle valve closed, with the engine idling with high vacuum in the intake manifold and inside the throttle valve slide, the air pressure on the slide bottom the throttle slide is floating the valve off the stop. After warming up the engine, I ran it on up to 4,000 rpm and then closed the throttle. The rpm did follow the throttle well down to about 3,000 and then it drifted on down to 2,300. I will try to double spring the return to see if it can be done. Next I will be going to a machine shop to see if they can make some stiffer springs. I am still excited about this, because after warm up, I saw the lowest fuel flow reading I have ever seen under idle conditions. And again, no dribble on the wing from the aircleaner. It was cold but no wind at the airport this afternoon. Here it is about 10:30 PM and we have about four inches of new snow on the ground, and it is still snowing. So it goes. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net