---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/26/03: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:11 AM - aerotwin engine () 2. 06:51 AM - Re: aerotwin engine (Christopher Armstrong) 3. 07:07 AM - Re: aerotwin engine (Bob Bean) 4. 07:24 AM - Re: aerotwin engine (John Hauck) 5. 08:22 AM - Kolb New Pilot Question (Doug Lawton) 6. 08:49 AM - history of ultralights (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 7. 08:55 AM - turnbuckle question (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) 8. 09:49 AM - Re: turnbuckle question (Richard Pike) 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Kolb New Pilot Question (FRED2319@aol.com) 10. 11:09 AM - Re: history of ultralights (John Hauck) 11. 01:05 PM - Re: history of ultralights (Christopher Armstrong) 12. 01:14 PM - Re: history of ultralights (CaptainRon) 13. 02:33 PM - Homer (T. K. Frantz) 14. 03:57 PM - Re: Homer (Kirk Smith) 15. 04:02 PM - Re: Homer (Peter Volum) 16. 04:17 PM - Re: Homer (dama) 17. 04:45 PM - (no subject) (T. K. Frantz) 18. 04:47 PM - Fw: Homer (Beauford Tuton) 19. 04:49 PM - Re: Homer (FRED2319@aol.com) 20. 05:21 PM - Re: Homer (John Hauck) 21. 05:23 PM - Re: Fw: Homer (John Hauck) 22. 05:44 PM - Re: Homer (Larry Bourne) 23. 05:47 PM - Gap Seals (Larry Bourne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:31 AM PST US From: Subject: Kolb-List: aerotwin engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kolbers, A buddy of mine told me last night that he is checking into the Airscooter coax helo. He wanted my opinion and I told him to proceed with caution. I checked the archives and seem to remember seeing a Firestar in a magazine from Oshkosh or Lakeland that had this engine on it. Or maybe it was a Motavia? they look like the same engine. What do you folks know about this engine? I don't want to see my buddy lose his butt (monetarily, or literally). Seems like it has the displacement to put out the 65 ponies, but who knows? Denny Rowe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:58 AM PST US From: "Christopher Armstrong" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: aerotwin engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" What do you folks know about this engine? Definitely not the same engine as Motavia. the company has invested lots of money into this project and that is the key to engineering development...it is one of the most accurate engineering equations: performance*reliability*on time=money! They have some very good design features and are using very advanced materials. If they don't run out of money before they get into volume production they will be great. The principles got rich on dotcom stocks so I think they will be able to pull it off. the helo is very good as long as you understand it is a recreational aircraft. it does not go fast and is not meant to fly above 50 feet. There is an unsafe altitude/airspeed area in helicopters, called the deadmans zone, and helicopters try not to fly there. it is usually a fairly small strip of the airspeed altitude envelope but for this helicopter it is fairly large due to the helicopters low speed, low rotor inertia and low aircraft inertia. If you lose power in this part of the envelop you will hit the ground hard enough to be hurt bad (or die), no matter what you do with the controls. (same as stalling a regular plane at low altitude, no matter what you do with the controls, you are going to hit the ground very hard) the difference is you can always not stall a regular plane at low altitude if you fly safely. but in a helicopter if you have a power loss in this part of the envelop you are dead. period. nothing you can do to avoid it. since for this craft it is from 50 feet to a couple of hundred feet at all airspeeds, every climb out puts the helicopter at significant risk. most helicopters can avoid the zone by accelerating to a decent airspeed befor cimbing. John H could enlighten us on this I am sure. they have plans for a light on the aircraft that will tell the pilot he is in this part of the envelope, so he knows to get out of it as soon as possible. this is part of the reason that they decided to do their own engine, they wanted to design something that would be extremely reliable. Good Idea. Topher ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:05 AM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aerotwin engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean Nice looking engine, good weight, however details on a redrive are skimpy. I doubt that coaxial rotor system (short too!) has much if any autorotative capability. -I would limit operation to glorified hovercraft, go just high enough to clear the fences , and those nasty cactuses in Lar's neighborhood. -BB do not archive Christopher Armstrong wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" > > >What do you folks know about this engine? > > >Definitely not the same engine as Motavia. the company has invested lots of >money into this project and that is the key to engineering development...it >is one of the most accurate engineering equations: >performance*reliability*on time=money! They have some very good design >features and are using very advanced materials. If they don't run out of >money before they get into volume production they will be great. The >principles got rich on dotcom stocks so I think they will be able to pull it >off. the helo is very good as long as you understand it is a recreational >aircraft. it does not go fast and is not meant to fly above 50 feet. There >is an unsafe altitude/airspeed area in helicopters, called the deadmans >zone, and helicopters try not to fly there. it is usually a fairly small >strip of the airspeed altitude envelope but for this helicopter it is fairly >large due to the helicopters low speed, low rotor inertia and low aircraft >inertia. If you lose power in this part of the envelop you will hit the >ground hard enough to be hurt bad (or die), no matter what you do with the >controls. (same as stalling a regular plane at low altitude, no matter what >you do with the controls, you are going to hit the ground very hard) the >difference is you can always not stall a regular plane at low altitude if >you fly safely. but in a helicopter if you have a power loss in this part >of the envelop you are dead. period. nothing you can do to avoid it. >since for this craft it is from 50 feet to a couple of hundred feet at all >airspeeds, every climb out puts the helicopter at significant risk. most >helicopters can avoid the zone by accelerating to a decent airspeed befor >cimbing. John H could enlighten us on this I am sure. they have plans for >a light on the aircraft that will tell the pilot he is in this part of the >envelope, so he knows to get out of it as soon as possible. this is part of >the reason that they decided to do their own engine, they wanted to design >something that would be extremely reliable. Good Idea. > >Topher > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:08 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aerotwin engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > since for this craft it is from 50 feet to a couple of hundred feet at all > airspeeds, every climb out puts the helicopter at significant risk. > Topher Topher/Gang: Helicopters need airspeed to autorotate successfully. Even at low altitude, if you have enough airspeed, you can execute a good autorotation. Low altitude, low airspeed, especially below translational lift, and you are gonna break the helicopter and probably yourself. Just like fixed wing. Low and slow will hurt you, eventually. john h ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:28 AM PST US From: "Doug Lawton" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Doug Lawton" One thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread that I would highly recommend is to be sure that the early first taxi tests and first flights are in absolute calm conditions. While most aileron equipped ultralights are capable of handling wind and thermal conditions with a competent and experienced pilot at the controls, it is a heck of a lot easier and safer for a new pilot or "new to a particular aircraft" pilot to get the feel of an aircraft without wind generated mechanical turbulence or thermic activity present. I would also err on the side of common sense and safety, bite the bullet, and make the drive to where you can get adequate instruction in a two seater as similar as possible to your plane. There have been many a basket case aircraft sold "as is" after only one or two attempted flights. It's just too big of an investment to take a shortcut at this juncture and experience level. But if money is no object and you're young and indestructable, well......... Admittedly, I say this as an instructor, having soloed 450 + students in ultralights over the years and having test flown 53 different models of ultralights and experimental type aircraft. Even with 1600 hours in light type aircraft, I'd still only test fly in calm conditions in the early morning or late evening timeframes. Fly Safely, Doug Lawton NE Georgia & Whitwell TN ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: history of ultralights From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 02/26/2003 11:45:21 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Ultralight Flying! magazine is running a three-part series on the history of ultralights. Part 2 is in the latest edition, and is really quite interesting with stories of the Easy Riser hang glider development, the subsequent addition of a power modification by John Moody, and a rather spectacular first appearance at OshKosh. Borrow a friends copy and take a look. Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:55 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: turnbuckle question From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com 02/26/2003 11:53:45 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Aircraft Spruce says to leave no more than three threads showing between a turnbuckle barrel and the end piece. My question is, what about the other direction, i.e., is it possible to screw the end pieces too far into the barrel portion, possibly passing most of the interior threaded area? You cant see into the barrel to see where the threads stop. I dont plan on installing them fully tightened like this since it would leave no room for future tightening, but Im curious, and it would be good to know for future reference. regards, Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:41 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: turnbuckle question --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike The barrel is threaded right up to the edge of the center hole, so it is OK to thread the insert in as far as it will go. AC 43.13 advises that there should be no more than three threads showing on either side of the barrel, and that turnbuckles should not be lubricated. They should also be correctly safetied, because they can unscrew themselves under tension and vibration. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 09:01 AM 2/26/03 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com > > >Aircraft Spruce says to leave no more than three threads showing between a >turnbuckle barrel and the end piece. My question is, what about the other >direction, i.e., is it possible to screw the end pieces too far into the >barrel portion, possibly passing most of the interior threaded area? You >cant see into the barrel to see where the threads stop. I dont plan on >installing them fully tightened like this since it would leave no room for >future tightening, but Im curious, and it would be good to know for future >reference. > >regards, > >Erich Weaver > > Help Stop Spam! Delete all address information (especially mine) off everything you forward, and make Blind Carbon Copy a way of life. Thanks! And have a blessed day. rp ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:42 AM PST US From: FRED2319@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb New Pilot Question --> Kolb-List message posted by: FRED2319@aol.com Just looking at new pilot ??? You started 1600 tt 450 soled students, 53 diff. aircraft. seems like it would take about 4 hrs to solo a student 450 X 4 = 1800 53 diff aircraft aprox . 30 min = 26 hrs to get for lic. approx. 60 Hrs flew just for fun ?? 100 ?? Don't seem to add up maybe a 0 was added or omitted huh? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:07 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: history of ultralights --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Part 2 is in the latest edition, and is really quite > interesting with stories of the Easy Riser hang glider development, the > subsequent addition of a power modification by John Moody, and a rather > spectacular first appearance at OshKosh. > Erich Weaver Erich/Gang: I keep hearing about John Moody being the "father of ultralighting". He gets the credit for it all the time. However, I believe Homer Kolb was flying powered ultralights when Moody was still sucking his thumb and crapping yellow in his diapers. I may be wrong, but that's what I think. Homer made me some pencil drawings on a yellow lined legal pad down at Sun and Fun a couple years ago. I still have them. They are of the bamboo and plastic sheeting hang glider he designed and flew a very, very long time ago. The Kolb Flyer was not Homer's first powered airplane. It was his first airplane he sold plans for. Moody may have been the first to put an engine on a modern day (1970's) hangglider, as such, but he wasn't the first to design and fly a powered ultralight, if I am not badly mistaken. We have come a long way since I got involved in UL'ing, and I am considered a late bloomer. I got interested and started doing research for a kit to buy and build (just as soon as I could scrape up some money) in August 1983. Got my Ultrastar kit March 1984, and flew it, without fixed wing instruction, July 1984. From then on it was out of my way, I am going flying............... john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:03 PM PST US From: "Christopher Armstrong" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: history of ultralights --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" Moody deserves as much credit as people want to give him. There were a lot of people inovating all over the country in the 70's, Homer Kolb amoung them and they deserve much credit as well. But when you tumble a wacco looking swept biplane flying wing in front of the a moderately large crowd at Oshkosh people tend to notice! I don't think that Homer has gone out of his way to get any credit either, as he seems a very humble man. I started flying UL in 82, but due to being young and stupid and poor I flew in a very badly designed and dangerously constructed piece of flying cow poo poo(Rotec Ralley 2b). Only wish I could have afforded a finer machine. Maybe those of you who know the details of Homer's developmental timeline should put an article together, and send it into ULF mag. bet if it was well done they would publish it and Homer would get some well deserved if not necessarily wanted attention. Topher ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: history of ultralights From: CaptainRon --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon 2/26/03 12:08John Hauck > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > >> Part 2 is in the latest edition, and is really quite >> interesting with stories of the Easy Riser hang glider development, the >> subsequent addition of a power modification by John Moody, and a rather >> spectacular first appearance at OshKosh. >> Erich Weaver > > Erich/Gang: > > I keep hearing about John Moody being the "father > of ultralighting". He gets the credit for it all > the time. However, I believe Homer Kolb was > flying powered ultralights when Moody was still > sucking his thumb and crapping yellow in his > diapers. I may be wrong, but that's what I think. > > Homer made me some pencil drawings on a yellow > lined legal pad down at Sun and Fun a couple years > ago. I still have them. They are of the bamboo > and plastic sheeting hang glider he designed and > flew a very, very long time ago. > > The Kolb Flyer was not Homer's first powered > airplane. It was his first airplane he sold plans > for. > > Moody may have been the first to put an engine on > a modern day (1970's) hangglider, as such, but he > wasn't the first to design and fly a powered > ultralight, if I am not badly mistaken. > > We have come a long way since I got involved in > UL'ing, and I am considered a late bloomer. I got > interested and started doing research for a kit to > buy and build (just as soon as I could scrape up > some money) in August 1983. Got my Ultrastar kit > March 1984, and flew it, without fixed wing > instruction, July 1984. From then on it was out > of my way, I am going flying............... > > john h ============================ Well if we gonna split hairs lets just say it was the mythical Ikarus. He crushed on his first flight, which seems to be a repeating theme up to our present. Then there was Goodyear rubber company sometime in the 50's iirc, that had an inflatable airplane that you could take with you. The way I remember it, there was one guy that stuck a small 2 cycle motor on his hang glider. He is the one that deserves the credit. Don't know who that dude was (John Moody?),, but he got the whole thing started which culminated in FAR 103. That was somewhere in 78 or so. I was still just a student pilot (with lots of hours though) back then. Homer deserves a lot of credit for his great designs but he was not the guy that made the Ultra light segment a reality. He was pretty much within the EAA mold, and his designs were fairly conventional. It was those bandito hang glider pioneers to whom we owe! Too cold to work on my project, geez two days without any progress! Strange frigid winter, Last year temps at this time were somewhere in the upper 60's. I wonder what the Canadians are doing up there sending their cold down here. Maybe they should start doing their run ups with the tails aimed north. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:42 PM PST US From: "T. K. Frantz" Subject: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" Guy's You should do a little research before you go piping off about Homer and what and when he accomplished what he did. John has it right about his being one, if not the first to fly a fixed wing UL. Check the January issue of Experimenter Magazine if you want to see something amazing. Someone on the list had directed our attention to his awhile back, can't remember who, hope you speak up. Fortunately, EAA finally recognized his contribution two years ago. If you don't toot your own horn, there's always plenty of others wanting to take the credit. Look what happened to the Wright Bros. by way of Glenn Curtiss and others. John, sometimes I think it's a waste of time to inform others of what they are already sure they know! But you tried. I do think Topher is correct, that someone should write down the story of Homer in detail, someone who has his trust and been there early on. That could be you. Terry ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:25 PM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Don't know if Homer was the first. Only been around him a few times at Kolb displays and talked to him once on the phone. But he seems like a very patient thoughtful kind of man. I think it would have been cool to have had him for a dad and learn how to build airplanes instead of forts. Just think, Homer for a Dad and John H. for a grampa........Too cool!!!!!! Snuf...... ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:14 PM PST US From: "Peter Volum" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" This discussion seems to be heading the way of a less than dignified "pissing contest". The irony is that the gentlemen we are talking about would probably be the last ones to have a discussion along these lines. Yes, there were some legal skirmishes during and immediately after the creation of the very VERY first ultralight* (the Wright flyer), but all in all, those who invented, modified and improved on flying machines were a dignified lot. Homer Kolb's unassuming humble nature fits right in. His work speaks for itself. He doesn't have to go around tooting horns. (* Ultralight being a relative term rather than a legal or technical one). In my book all these guys are heroes and worthy of praise and respect, and I'm grateful to them for their ingenuity and daring that gave me the sport I enjoy so much. Just for the heck of it I punched in "First Ultralight" in a search engine, and came up with this link. http://usuaclub1.org/Eaadec99.pdf .which makes interesting reading. Particularly the line: "How could anybody invent the first ultralight when every early plane from the Wright Flyer on was already an ultralight?" Valid point! Aviation has advanced and progressed in many directions, but it all stems from the same roots. Today's ultralights are very similar in design to the "ultralights" of the early 1900's when neither Homer Kolb nor John Moody had yet graced our planet with their presence. As with the other segments of aviation, pioneers have strived to incorporate new lighter and stronger materials, better understanding of aerodynamics and more powerful and reliable engines to improve a concept that later on was given the name "ultralight". Each improvement is worthy of merit, but not at the exclusion of others. Thank you Wilbur & Orville, but thank you also John and Homer and dozens of others before and after you. There's plenty of well deserved credit and merit to go around for all without the need to exclude anybody from this elite club. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T. K. Frantz Subject: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" Guy's You should do a little research before you go piping off about Homer and what and when he accomplished what he did. John has it right about his being one, if not the first to fly a fixed wing UL. Check the January issue of Experimenter Magazine if you want to see something amazing. Someone on the list had directed our attention to his awhile back, can't remember who, hope you speak up. Fortunately, EAA finally recognized his contribution two years ago. If you don't toot your own horn, there's always plenty of others wanting to take the credit. Look what happened to the Wright Bros. by way of Glenn Curtiss and others. John, sometimes I think it's a waste of time to inform others of what they are already sure they know! But you tried. I do think Topher is correct, that someone should write down the story of Homer in detail, someone who has his trust and been there early on. That could be you. Terry ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:19 PM PST US From: "dama" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" Just think what Orville and Wilbur would have done with a 503. I think that their engine was close to my FS empty weight! Kip http://www.springeraviation.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Volum" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Homer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" > > This discussion seems to be heading the way of a less than dignified > "pissing contest". The irony is that the gentlemen we are talking about > would probably be the last ones to have a discussion along these lines. > > Yes, there were some legal skirmishes during and immediately after the > creation of the very VERY first ultralight* (the Wright flyer), but all > in all, those who invented, modified and improved on flying machines > were a dignified lot. Homer Kolb's unassuming humble nature fits right > in. His work speaks for itself. He doesn't have to go around tooting > horns. > > (* Ultralight being a relative term rather than a legal or technical > one). > > In my book all these guys are heroes and worthy of praise and respect, > and I'm grateful to them for their ingenuity and daring that gave me the > sport I enjoy so much. > > Just for the heck of it I punched in "First Ultralight" in a search > engine, and came up with this link. > > http://usuaclub1.org/Eaadec99.pdf > > .which makes interesting reading. Particularly the line: "How could > anybody invent the first ultralight when every early plane from the > Wright Flyer on was already an ultralight?" Valid point! > > Aviation has advanced and progressed in many directions, but it all > stems from the same roots. Today's ultralights are very similar in > design to the "ultralights" of the early 1900's when neither Homer Kolb > nor John Moody had yet graced our planet with their presence. > > As with the other segments of aviation, pioneers have strived to > incorporate new lighter and stronger materials, better understanding of > aerodynamics and more powerful and reliable engines to improve a concept > that later on was given the name "ultralight". Each improvement is > worthy of merit, but not at the exclusion of others. > > Thank you Wilbur & Orville, but thank you also John and Homer and dozens > of others before and after you. There's plenty of well deserved credit > and merit to go around for all without the need to exclude anybody from > this elite club. > > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of T. K. Frantz > To: kolb-list > Subject: Kolb-List: Homer > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" > > Guy's > > You should do a little research before you go piping off about Homer and > what and when he accomplished what he did. > > John has it right about his being one, if not the first to fly a fixed > wing UL. > Check the January issue of Experimenter Magazine if you want to see > something amazing. Someone on the list had directed our attention to > his awhile back, can't remember who, hope you speak up. > > Fortunately, EAA finally recognized his contribution two years ago. If > you don't toot your own horn, there's always plenty of others wanting to > take the credit. > Look what happened to the Wright Bros. by way of Glenn Curtiss and > others. > > John, sometimes I think it's a waste of time to inform others of what > they are already sure they know! But you tried. I do think Topher is > correct, that someone should write down the story of Homer in detail, > someone who has his trust and been there early on. That could be you. > > Terry > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:31 PM PST US From: "T. K. Frantz" Subject: Kolb-List: (no subject) --> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" Peter, No "pissing contest", just an attempt to edify those who are lacking in their knowledge of the man whose name is carried on their pride and joy. I only wish I knew more than I do about the man. I do disagree with your characterization of "some legal skimershes" regarding the outright theft of patent that Glenn Curtiss was engaged in so that he might grab the glory and finical reward for something he did not do. He was able to string out the legal challenge to his thievery long enough that it didn't matter anymore and had cost the Wright Bros. irreplaceable time and money. "That" was his genius! I believe the French still insist they were the first to fly! Other than that I agree that many are responsible for where we are now and are all due our respect for their contribution. I don't mitigate John Moony's contribution at all. Just wanted to clarify what I thought is misleading information. Terry ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:59 PM PST US From: "Beauford Tuton" Subject: Fw: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Beauford Tuton" Yep... now that you bring it up, Brother Smith.... I CAN visualize Brother Hauck as a grandpa.... Those SF guys age a tad slower than most soldiers, but they DO age.... Yep... it all fits together.... keep talkin'..... Lovin' it, Beauford Do not archive PS... haven't run the Firefly in over 5 weeks... worried about Rotax corrosion... not to mention prostate corrosion... sigh... nothin' is easy anymore.... A pox on you, Saddam... B. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > > Homer for a Dad and John H. for a grampa........Too cool!!!!!! Snuf...... > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:54 PM PST US From: FRED2319@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: FRED2319@aol.com Very well said Peter. thanks ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:24 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Homer for a Dad and John H. for a grampa........Too cool!!!!!! Snuf...... Snuffy/Gang: Watch yo mouth boy! I ain't havin' no stinkin' gran young'n with a name like "Snuffy". Well........maybe if you is famous, like the Snuffy in the comics. Now tell me. Are you going to be a Class A or a Class B dependent? john h PS: Don't feel like a Granpa.........not all the time. :-) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:54 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Fw: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > PS... haven't run the Firefly in over 5 weeks... worried about Rotax > corrosion... not to mention prostate corrosion... sigh... nothin' is easy > anymore.... A pox on you, Saddam... > B. Beauford/Gang: Get that Firefly loosened up and fly it up to Lakeland the first of April. I'll let you camp with me and Miss P'fer. You haven't gone back to work, have you? :-( DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:27 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Was that "John H. for a grump-a ??" :-) Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homer > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > Homer for a Dad and John H. for a grampa........Too cool!!!!!! Snuf...... > > Snuffy/Gang: > > Watch yo mouth boy! > > I ain't havin' no stinkin' gran young'n with a > name like "Snuffy". > > Well........maybe if you is famous, like the > Snuffy in the comics. > > Now tell me. Are you going to be a Class A or a > Class B dependent? > > john h > > PS: Don't feel like a Granpa.........not all the > time. :-) > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:33 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Gap Seals --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I've come up with some questions about installing the aileron & flap gap seals on Vamoose. Could someone scan and send the appropriate pages of the Mk III construction manual to me. Sure would appreciate it. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com