Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - Re: Rotax-787 100hp question (Vincehallam@aol.com)
2. 04:42 AM - Junkyard wars (Clay Stuart)
3. 04:43 AM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (Dave Rains)
4. 04:54 AM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (Vincehallam@aol.com)
5. 05:36 AM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (James, Ken)
6. 06:02 AM - Rotax 787 (Peter Volum)
7. 07:00 AM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (jerb)
8. 07:10 AM - Re: Junkyard wars (J.D. Stewart)
9. 07:11 AM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (FRED2319@aol.com)
10. 07:14 AM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (John Hauck)
11. 07:39 AM - Fw: Kolb (Larry Bourne)
12. 07:50 AM - Re: Rotax-787 100hp question (CaptainRon)
13. 07:51 AM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (John Hauck)
14. 07:54 AM - Cargo Compartment And Other Stuff (John Hauck)
15. 08:01 AM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (CaptainRon)
16. 08:01 AM - Tie Down Rings (John Hauck)
17. 08:04 AM - Re: Fw: Kolb (John Hauck)
18. 08:10 AM - 912/912S Engine Mount (John Hauck)
19. 08:22 AM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (CaptainRon)
20. 08:24 AM - Re: Rotax-787 100hp question (CaptainRon)
21. 08:29 AM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (CaptainRon)
22. 08:52 AM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (John Hauck)
23. 09:00 AM - 6 inch tubes (Kirk Smith)
24. 09:15 AM - Main Gear Truss And Main Gear (John Hauck)
25. 09:19 AM - Re: 6 inch tubes (John Hauck)
26. 09:43 AM - won't fly (Bob Bean)
27. 10:10 AM - Tail wire bracing (John Cooley)
28. 10:33 AM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (CaptainRon)
29. 10:47 AM - Re: Tail wire bracing (CaptainRon)
30. 01:58 PM - Re: Tail wire bracing (John Hauck)
31. 03:19 PM - Fw: Trailer/Dolly (SGreenpg@aol.com)
32. 03:31 PM - Rotax 787 vs. 670 (Richard Pike)
33. 03:57 PM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (jerb)
34. 04:23 PM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (John Hauck)
35. 04:25 PM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (John Hauck)
36. 04:45 PM - Re: Tail wire bracing (CaptainRon)
37. 04:47 PM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (Don Gherardini)
38. 05:07 PM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (CaptainRon)
39. 05:16 PM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (CaptainRon)
40. 05:21 PM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (CaptainRon)
41. 05:57 PM - Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder (Don Gherardini)
42. 06:32 PM - Re: Rotax-787 100hp question (woody)
43. 06:33 PM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (Richard Harris)
44. 06:40 PM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (Larry Cottrell)
45. 07:10 PM - Re: Seat tanks (Richard Swiderski)
46. 07:20 PM - ! Re: won't fly (Larry Bourne)
47. 07:21 PM - Re: Seat tanks (John Hauck)
48. 07:34 PM - Re: Rotax-787 100hp question (Richard Swiderski)
49. 07:53 PM - Re: Rotax-787 100hp question (herbgh@juno.com)
50. 08:48 PM - EVO/AIR Update (Paul Petty)
51. 09:29 PM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (possums)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax-787 100hp question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Vincehallam@aol.com
Wow ...
Do you really mean rotary like Gnome Rhone where the cylinders
rotate and yhe crankshaft stands still or just some ornery rotary valve
disced 2 stroke?? 1
100 hp 2 stroke still sounds interesting ..Weight Fuel
consumption????
Vnz
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart@adelphia.net>
Junkyard wars is showing a repeat tonight of building and flying 3 antique-type
airplanes in 20 hours (show lasts 2 hours). They have to use time-period tools
to build, but they allow them to use Poly Fibre cloth and the producers provide
engines. Maybe someone can tell what type engine is used. It was a 2-stroke
I think. I didn't understand how they all just happened to find an appropriate
prop amongst the junk.
Wednesday night Mar 12th The Learning Channel 9 and 12 EST.
Do not archive
Clay Stuart
Message 3
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| Subject: | 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
Where is it? Color me stupid, but I can't find that engine anywhere on that site.
Dave Rains.
-----Original Message-----
From: CaptainRon [SMTP:CaptainRon@theriver.com]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/11/03 18:24Richard Pike
> http://216.37.204.206/xtremepowersports/Seadoo_OEM/Seadoo_PWC.asp?Type=12&
> http://216.37.204.206/xtremepowersports/Seadoo_OEM/Seadoo_PWC.asp?Type=12&A=37
=======================
Its looking even more cool, it has oil injection!!!!!
If the standard water pump and the RDU fits out of the box. I think I'd go
for it.
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Vincehallam@aol.com
flat fours looked like jabiru or rotax
Vnz
Message 5
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| Subject: | Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
I'm betting that they were 503 Rotax, I have talked with a couple of people
I met at Oshkosh who were on Junk Yards Wars about a month before the show
they talk with the "experts" about what is needed to finish the project in
this case a proper engine and prop,then they seed the yard so it has just
enough stuff to finish, The guy's also said they sometimes do a little
steering of the go-fors so the can find the "right" stuff in time. Remember
the show must go on!
Ken
P.s those brits had balls flying that ship so high the first flight! and the
dam wing on the American
ship scared the hell out of me watching it!! Well worth watching!
-----Original Message-----
From: Vincehallam@aol.com [mailto:Vincehallam@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Junkyard wars motors
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Vincehallam@aol.com
flat fours looked like jabiru or rotax
Vnz
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
Captain Ron's pictures can be seen at: http://lafa.com/Rotax787.htm
Peter
Message 7
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| Subject: | Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
Nope, they were Hirth's according to Chuck S of CGS Aviation fame (aka the
Hawk manufacturer). Chuck was the Judge. Chuck has posted several
comments on the Fly-UL list. It worth watching. Might learn a few things
about wing and horiz. stab incidence.
jerb
At 08:34 AM 3/12/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
>
>I'm betting that they were 503 Rotax, I have talked with a couple of people
>I met at Oshkosh who were on Junk Yards Wars about a month before the show
>they talk with the "experts" about what is needed to finish the project in
>this case a proper engine and prop,then they seed the yard so it has just
>enough stuff to finish, The guy's also said they sometimes do a little
>steering of the go-fors so the can find the "right" stuff in time. Remember
>the show must go on!
>
>Ken
>
>P.s those brits had balls flying that ship so high the first flight! and the
>dam wing on the American
>ship scared the hell out of me watching it!! Well worth watching!
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vincehallam@aol.com [mailto:Vincehallam@aol.com]
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Junkyard wars motors
>
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Vincehallam@aol.com
>
>flat fours looked like jabiru or rotax
> Vnz
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart@inebraska.com>
Watch closely, and you'll see Hirth boxes laying around. From what Chuck
S. says, they hide important pieces like props so it still looks like
scavenging. Show business. :>)
J.D. Stewart
UltraFun AirSports
http://www.ultrafunairsports.com
Challenger Owners E-mail list and Website Administrator
http://challenger.inebraska.com
> Maybe
> someone can tell what type engine is used. It was a 2-stroke I
> think. I didn't understand how they all just happened to find an
> appropriate prop amongst the junk.
>
> Wednesday night Mar 12th The Learning Channel 9 and 12 EST.
>
> Do not archive
> Clay Stuart
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: FRED2319@aol.com
Capt Ron Best you do a lot of thinking how you will cool that beauty.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> It worth watching. Might learn a few things
> about wing and horiz. stab incidence.
> jerb
jerb/Gang:
Check out this pic of Miss P'fer landing at South
Mississippi Light Aircraft:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Final.JPG
Power is at idle, 40 deg (full) flaps, settling in
to land. Wing incidence is slight, horizontal
stabilizer is parallel with line of flight, and
elevator is lined up with horz stab even though it
takes more aft stick pressure to keep the nose up
with full flaps. Inside the cockpit one feels
like we are applying great amounts of aft stick,
in this configuration, when in fact we are
applying force, but not moving the elevator up but
a slight amount. Leading edge of horz stab is
about midway point on boom tube.
john h
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
More from John Wood on his crash.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Wood, John T.
Subject: RE: Kolb
Thanks, to all of you for their concerns. Don't know what caused the bang. It got
the attention of the folks on the ground. Still waiting for NTSB, FSDO and
Insurance. At least I had Hull coverage. We will see what the Insurance folks
have to say after looking at the plane. Once I know more I will send it to the
list. I don't want to speculate and forward incorrect data.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne [mailto:biglar@gogittum.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 6:53 PM
To: Wood, John T.
Subject: Re: Kolb
I'm glad you're OK, but it's sure a shame. All that work ! ! ! Are you going
to fix it ?? Any idea what caused the "bang ??" I forwarded your message
on to the Kolb List. John Hauck saw the report, and asked about you.
Lar.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax-787 100hp question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 5:39Vincehallam@aol.com
> Wow ...
> Do you really mean rotary like Gnome Rhone where the cylinders
> rotate and yhe crankshaft stands still or just some ornery rotary valve
> disced 2 stroke?? 1
> 100 hp 2 stroke still sounds interesting ..Weight Fuel
> consumption????
>
===========================
Don't know any more specs, then I gave. Its light though, I had little
trouble lifting it out of its shipping box. I would guess about 50 pounds.
It was missing the heads, muffler, and the *Rotary Valve* housing.
I am waiting on Paul to post the photo's that I took, and then get some
feedback from those that have experience in working on the Rotax. I yet have
none.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>Ron Best you do a lot of thinking how you will cool that beauty. Fred
Fred/Gang:
Also noticed a good sized fly wheel that appears
to be on the PTO end of crank shaft. Might
interfere with mounting a gear box.
No view of exhaust side of engine where the water
pump on a 582 is mounted and driven off that end
of the rotary valve shaft.
The 582 mounted on my MK III turning 5,800 rpm at
cruise, 80 mph, burned 5 to 5.5 gph. Wonder what
a 100 horses would drink in an hour?
Another consideration with high horsepower two
strokes is ring coking and piston siezures, which
are a problem with the high horsepower outboard
motor folks. They say it is a fuel problem. No
matter what, it is an expensive proposition,
especially when we throw in altitude and gravity.
john h
john h
Message 14
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| Subject: | Cargo Compartment And Other Stuff |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Gang:
A shot of my cargo compartment. To me this makes
more sense than the large open area on a standard
built MK III, up top. But to each his own.
Everyone does not fly or have the same tastes
Brother Jim and I have.
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Fuel%20pump.JPG
In top of the cargo compartment is the bottom of
my 25 gal (useable) fuel tank. Mounted at the
lowest point is the outlet with finger strainer
and Facet electronic fuel pump. Also notice my
fuel shutoff valve made by Briggs and Stratton (or
sold under their name). They are cheap ($3.50
aprx) and realiable. Have been using them since
Miss P'fer was new, March 1992. Fuel comes out of
the tank, loops down under the tail boom, and back
up to the fuel pump. At the bottom of the loop is
a "T". A sump/drain line runs forward from the
"T" to the midpoint of fuselage (between the main
gear truss) to another nylon fuel valve, then a 90
deg fitting with short piece of fuel line to drain
fuel/water that collects in the sump/drain line.
A home engineered and fabricated gascolator that
costs practically nothing and works great, but
only when I drain fuel into a clear glass
container to see what I get. I back this up with
an inspection of each float bowl about once a
month. If a drop of water collects in the "pot
metal" fuel bowl, is allowed to remain their for a
couple two or three months or so.........., it
will start corroding and eating holes in the float
bowl. The fuel tank vent line is routed from the
top of the tank down to the same area as fuel
drain to exit the fuselage.
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Fuel%20pump%202.jpg
john h
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 8:11FRED2319@aol.com
> Capt Ron Best you do a lot of thinking how you will cool that beauty.
================
Unless I can determine if I can get a water pump that will bolt right onto
this thing (I am thinking a Skidoo probably has the same motor in it, and
hence water cooling). I am back to a Hirth, Jabi, VW, Simonini, or a jets.
:-)
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Morning Gang:
For many years I had to tie down by wrapping rope
around the lift strut fitting. Landing at an
airport that used hooks and chains for tie down
was tough on my little airplanes tender skin.
When we were fabricating Miss P'fers fuselage at
the Old Kolb Factory, in the basement of a couple
hundred year old barn on Homer Kolb's farm, I had
time to do a lot of thinking about how I wanted my
new MK III to turn out. One of the improvements
was the tie down rings:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Tie%20point.JPG
The rings are rope guides for the starter rope on
the Firestar. Jim welded a ring to the end of the
short lift strut tang. In this shot notice the
upside down bolts and an inspection plate just aft
of the drag strut attach point to the main spar.
The lift strut tang hole has a nice bushing welded
into it. I use no clevis pins. The fittings are
snugged down with bolts. This prevent inevitable
wear from vibration which quickly elongates the
lift strut attach point holes. Also the main spar
attach points:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Tie%20point%202.jpg
john h
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Thanks, to all of you for their concerns. Don't know what caused the bang.
> John
John/Gang:
On our Kolb aircraft, usually when we get a big
bang, something has gone through the prop. It is
not uncommon for FOD to hit the prop which in turn
slams it into the bottom of the wing, aileron,
flap, or tail boom.
Ask me how I know. :-)
john h
Message 18
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| Subject: | 912/912S Engine Mount |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Gang:
More pics, courtesy of John Cooley, who lives in
ear shot of Ronnie Smith's airstrip in Lucedale,
Mississippi.
This one is of the engine mount. Can also see a
little of the way we hung radiator and oil
cooler. Also notice that I went to 3/8" thick
aluminum angle instead of the original 1/4" thick
aluminum I used with the 912. I went through
three sets of 1/4" engine mounts with the 912 in
1,135 hours. John Russell fabricated his engine
mounts from 3/8" stock and was kind enough to give
me a set when I was in the process of mounting my
912S. I think these will survive much longer than
the 1/4":
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Mount.JPG
john h
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 6:34James, Ken
> P.s those brits had balls flying that ship so high the first flight! and the
> dam wing on the American
> ship scared the hell out of me watching it!! Well worth watching!
=======================
Good show but;
Whoever was piloting the US team craft's when they finaly did get it flying
should have been flushed out of there! That dude is a national
embarressment, What a jerk (claimed he flew 80 some different types of
airplanes, none probably well...) and yet couldn't stay in ground effect
long enough to make the finish line with a machine that was staying aloft on
its own power just fine. Of course the blame should fall on those that chose
him to pilot it. Choosing a heavy 6 footer to fly something on minimal hp is
also kinda stupid.
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax-787 100hp question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 5:39Vincehallam@aol.com
> Wow ...
> Do you really mean rotary like Gnome Rhone where the cylinders
> rotate and yhe crankshaft stands still or just some ornery rotary valve
> disced 2 stroke?? 1
> 100 hp 2 stroke still sounds interesting ..Weight Fuel
> consumption????
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 8:51John Hauck
> No view of exhaust side of engine where the water
> pump on a 582 is mounted and driven off that end
> of the rotary valve shaft.
======================
If someone has photo's of a stripped 582 from all sides, and a fully dressed
one, and emails them to me. Next time up in Tucson I'll go and compare them
with what they have. I still have some time before lack of engine turns into
a show stopper so I have time to do some researching.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> If someone has photo's of a stripped 582 from all sides, and a fully dressed
> one, and emails them to me. Next time up in Tucson I'll go and compare them
> with what they have. Ron
Ron/Gang:
Why don't you do a Google search or go to Kodiak
Research and get parts blow ups of a 582? They
are free on the internet..................
http://www.kodiakbs.com/index.htm
http://www.rotec.com/
john h
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Has anybody got the cut off pieces of the 6 inch diameter wing spars laying around
that they'd want to part with? I had 2 pieces left about 40 inches long
each. Kirk
Do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Main Gear Truss And Main Gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Gang:
A better view of the main gear truss that carries
what you see on the outside of the fuselage:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Inner%20bracing.JPG
Note a common seat belt attach point inboard. To
the left is the Elt. Behind the ELT is the
battery and master solenoid. Two springs for nose
up trim. Do not need any nose down trim. Under
ELT is my Marvel Mystery Oil. Does it work? I
think so and use it religiously in every thing I
own and some things I don't own. Wrapped up in
black beside the MMO is my tool kit. You can see
my two pink colored brake lines. Also pitot and
static pressure lines. The 1/4" alum tubes are
for disconnecting the lines to remove right wing.
PT17 pitot/static system is mounted to right lift
strut. I also us the static pressure connector to
calibrate my airspeed indicator. I drill a hole
graduating from 1/64 by 64ths up. Keep flying
reverse courses at same indicated airspeed and
changing connectors until I get the right one that
matches up ground speed and airspeed. I need to
do that now. My airspeed at 90 indicated is
actually 84 mph. Why does it change once
calibrated. I don't know, but it does over a
period of time. Sometimes 6 months, sometime a
year or longer between calibrations. Feels good
to constantly see 90 mph at cruise even though I
know it is really 84 mph. :-) I think it is
pretty much in error across the board. Yesterday,
solo, I was stalling at about 45 indicated clean
and 40 mph full flaps. After calibration should
get it down to 40 and 35 true.
This pic shows my trim wheel and my Chillie Vest
Digital Thermostat control just below it. The
loose wire plugs into my vest. Thermostat control
with wire is velcroed on an alum plate. It is
removed in warm weather. Comes out this morning.
:-) Copilot's head set sockets are below. The
bungee is some left aileron trim when I need it.
Lately have not had to use it.
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Seat%20rails%202.jpg
Main gear legs and outside mounts. The Hauck heat
treated 4130 legs work great. Our entire
modification weighs about the same as the standard
Kolb alum legs. That is the black neoprene fuel
tank vent tube sticking down from the lowest point
of the fuselage.
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Pfer%20legs.JPG
When I get caught out after dark, this landing
light system works great. I could not detect any
difference in cruise speed with or without it.
So, I don't think I am being penalized for having
it handy hanging out in the breeze. I got the
light from Summit Racing. It is a KC Off Road
Running Light. Can not remember wattage, but
think it is 50 or 60. Uses replaceable halogen
bulb rather than sealed beam tungsten element at
100w. Is as effective at the old GE 100w sealed
beam landing light and lasts many times longer.
With only one light to depend on, don't use sealed
beam with their extremely short life span. Will
get you in trouble with no back up.
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Pfer%20legs%202.jpg
john h
john h
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 6 inch tubes |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Has anybody got the cut off pieces of the 6 inch diameter wing spars laying
around that they'd want to part with? Kirk
Kirk/Gang:
New Kolb Co has a large "uh oh" pile of 6" tubing
stacked up next to the main building. About half
of what they receive can not be sent out in kits.
I have some but am going to hold on them them. I
use them when I break things. A short piece will
come in handy building new upper vertical
stabilizer next week.
john h
PS: Got to fly to Wetumpka Airport and give Miss
P'fer her first bath since last September. Six
months already. If I am careful, will not have to
wash her until after I return from Lakeland or
Monument Valley. :-)
Message 26
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
http://www.cardomain.com/id/chevbelair55
Hey guys, I know it's not kolb related--but what an ambitious project!
Lar, this should appeal to you especially. -BB do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Tail wire bracing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
Would like to hear some opinions and thoughts on additional tail wire
bracing for the Mark III. After seeing the leading edge of the upper
vertical stabilizer break on John's plane I reinforced this area on mine
with a one foot long sleeve inside of the leading edge tube (with ends cut
at an angle-thanks to this list). I also planned on putting additional wire
bracing on mine and started looking at some of the pictures that I have of
other planes. There are several different configurations. Seems to me that
the best set-up would be to have bracing from the midpoint of the upper
vertical stab (area that broke on John's plane) to the center of the leading
edge tubing on the horizontal stabs and then for simplicity sake back to the
point that the factory design attaches at the bottom of the tail post. I
would also add the inner sleeves to the leading edge of the horizontal stabs
of course.
I notice that the Slingshot models have the standard setup of the Mark
III, Firestar and Firefly and then has additional support wires from the top
of the rudder mount post to the leading edge tube of the horizontal stabs
and then back to the bottom of the rudder tail post. It doesn't have
additional support in the leading edge tube of the upper vertical stab.
Maybe it uses thicker wall material and is not needed.
I doubt that I would ever put the 1700 hours or so that John has put on
Ms. Pfer on my plane, but it would be nice to have the extra bracing there
just in case. I have noticed the tail of my Firestar on several occasions
when the engine hits a certain point and with the air blasting over it, that
it looks like a blur and have thought that additional bracing would not be
such a bad thing, at least to my simple mind. I welcome any and all thoughts
on this.
Thanks,
John Cooley
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Been to that site. It looks pretty much the same. I would think that if
Olnik gets motivated he can make a lot of money by making available as a kit
the parts that we need to attach to the Rotax 787. I can't think of anyone
who is more into this stuff than him, come on Tom get motivated.
You got no liability if all you do is sell the missing parts, if they fit??
:-)
Hey Olnik you out there?
=========================
> Ron/Gang:
>
> Why don't you do a Google search or go to Kodiak
> Research and get parts blow ups of a 582? They
> are free on the internet..................
>
> http://www.kodiakbs.com/index.htm
>
> http://www.rotec.com/
>
> john h
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Tail wire bracing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 11:15John Cooley
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
>
> Hi Gang,
>
> Would like to hear some opinions and thoughts on additional tail wire
> bracing for the Mark III.
>
=============================
I would just go to a 2024 t3 tube, Aircraft Spruce has them. They are very
strong, it may just solve that problem. They are stiffer than 6066 and less
prone to vibrate, if you can, also go one size up in wall thickness.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Tail wire bracing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I would just go to a 2024 t3 tube, Aircraft Spruce has them. They are > stiffer
than 6066 and less
> prone to vibrate, if you can, also go one size up in wall thickness. ron
Ron/Gang:
My MK III tailsection, as I have stated recently,
was overbuilt to begin with. I had an idea that
all that "stuff" back there took a really tough
beating, so I built with .058" instead of .035".
I think I have mentioned, but in case I have not,
I went ahead and planned for wire bracing on the
leading edges of the horizontal stabs. Slipped
the sleeves inside each one and drilled it for a
3/16 bolt. These sleeves may have prevented the
horizontal stabilizer leading edge tubes from
failing due to fatigue/stress. I knew from
watching the leading edges of the factory MK III
in flight that something needed to be done to keep
them from vibrating so much. I never got around
to the additional wire bracing and have had no
problems with horz stabs. Neither have I had a
problem with the upper tail post which also has a
sleeve for wire bracing.
I never considered putting a sleeve in the leading
edge of the upper vertical stab, so I did not.
During rebuild, I will add that sleeve. Whether I
will put additional wire bracing on the vert stab
leading edge or not, I am undecided at this time.
I will go ahead and drill the leading edge and
sleeve to accept wire bracing, just in case I
change my mind.
I have found through a lot of use that 6061T6 is
much more fatigue resistant than 2024 alum. Quite
simply, 2024 will split and crack from vibration
and fatigue much quicker than 6061. Do not
recommend using 2024 for building anything on the
Kolb aircraft, in the way of tubing or sheet.
I once built a gap seal out of 2024 sheet. Cost a
fortune that I did not have. In a remarkably
short time the cap seal disintegrated from
vibration. Rebuilt out of hardware store aluminum
valley material. Lasted as long as the aircraft
did.
john h
Message 31
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| Subject: | Fwd: Trailer/Dolly |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: SGreenpg@aol.com
In a message dated 3/12/03 6:52:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gtalexander@att.net writes:
>
> Steve:
> Those pictures are still on my website if you want to refer people to
> them.
> Hope all is well with you.
> George Alexander
> <A HREF="http://gtalexander.home.att.net">http://gtalexander.home.att.net
>
George,
Thanks
Steven
(Authid: gtalexander@att.net);
From: "G. T. Alexander, Jr." <gtalexander@att.net>
Subject: Trailer/Dolly
Steve:
Those pictures are still on my website if you want to refer people to them.
Hope all is well with you.
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" nameGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
Steve:
Those pictures are still on my website if you want
to refer people to them.
Hope all is well with you.
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Message 32
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| Subject: | Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
If you really are convinced that there is no substitute for Rotax
2-stroke cubic inches...instead of reinventing the wheel,
it might be easier to pick up where some else has already
laid the foundation...
http://rdaerosports.com/
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Do Not Archive
Help Stop Spam!
Delete all address information (especially mine) off everything you
forward, and make Blind Carbon Copy a way of life.
Thanks! And have a blessed day.
rp
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
Ron, I feel your being way to critical. They built from no plans and had
to guess how to set up the wing and horiz. stab. Flying airplanes is one
thing, understanding the design mechanics of how they work is another. A
less experienced pilot might not fared as well, it's hard to judge unless
your in the chair. Looked to me like he was just happy to get it back on
the ground. I can vouch if you don't have enough incidence in the wing
and/or setting nose low to boot, you can have a very hard time getting
airborne and then after you do, you wonder if your going to have enough
elevator authority to keep it in the air, stop a decent, and flare. He got
it up and down without bending it. Many of Kolb pilots have bent a gear
leg or two on their first couple flights including instructors. Have you
flown yours yet.
jerb
At 09:15 AM 3/12/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
>
>3/12/03 6:34James, Ken
>
> > P.s those brits had balls flying that ship so high the first flight!
> and the
> > dam wing on the American
> > ship scared the hell out of me watching it!! Well worth watching!
>=======================
>
>
>Good show but;
>Whoever was piloting the US team craft's when they finaly did get it flying
>should have been flushed out of there! That dude is a national
>embarressment, What a jerk (claimed he flew 80 some different types of
>airplanes, none probably well...) and yet couldn't stay in ground effect
>long enough to make the finish line with a machine that was staying aloft on
>its own power just fine. Of course the blame should fall on those that chose
>him to pilot it. Choosing a heavy 6 footer to fly something on minimal hp is
>also kinda stupid.
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> If you really are convinced that there is no substitute for Rotax
> 2-stroke cubic inches...instead of reinventing the wheel,
> it might be easier to pick up where some else has already
> laid the foundation...
> http://rdaerosports.com/
>
> Richard Pike
Richard/Gang:
Wow!
I think you have solved Ron's engine problem. I
can just see him screaming through the Arizona sky
in his MK III Extra..........
Easy HP.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Have you
> flown yours yet.
> jerb
jerb/Gang:
Didn't know that was a requirement for expert
status...........
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Tail wire bracing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Well John I somewhat disagree.
From my experience I have yet to see 2024 crack or split. The leading edge
of my vertical stab is 2024 t3. The wing tip bow (of one wing) is also 2024
t3 (run out of tubing and ordered 2024 instead). It has yet to fly though!
so take my recommendation with that in mind. I do have an airplane that gets
beat up by 200hp 160 mph on regular basis, and in nearly 7000 hrs it has yet
to show any cracks. :-)
2024 will crack if its not deburred, or constructed with the grain in
mind.
I certainly would have liked to see what cracked or split in your usage. Its
a lot cheaper to make airplanes out of 6061 but none are, all certified
aircraft are 2024 with some high stress parts out of 7075.
==============
3/12/03 14:57John Hauck
> I have found through a lot of use that 6061T6 is
> much more fatigue resistant than 2024 alum. Quite
> simply, 2024 will split and crack from vibration
> and fatigue much quicker than 6061.
=====
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Ron...before you go to far on thet new 787...check and see what rpm the peak
hp is...might be awful fast for the redrives we have available to us.. I
keep looking around also at all the new engines and their very hight hp
ratings with lust...particularl;y motorsusle and snowmobiles....but usually
find that they are double (or more) the rpms we are used too!....
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Don Gherardini-
FireFly 098
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
I am looking for cheap and easy 100 hp engine. I still have some time to
make up my mind. But it does seem that everytime I look somewhere I end up
stumbling over one rotax or another. :-)
I kinda like the Hirth, but it does seem to be a lot more options with the
Rotax. That 682 Rotax on that site looks ok but notice the RPMs, that thing
is puking its guts out at full power, 7K is a lot. I'll call them tomorrow
and see what they want for it fully dressed.
anyone has any experience with one of them?
==================================
3/12/03 16:31Richard Pike
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> If you really are convinced that there is no substitute for Rotax
> 2-stroke cubic inches...instead of reinventing the wheel,
> it might be easier to pick up where some else has already
> laid the foundation...
> http://rdaerosports.com/
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
==========================
Do Not Archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 16:58jerb
> Have you
> flown yours yet.
======================
No! and by now I have been conditioned to simply have spare parts ready for
after that first flight. :-)
There was a contest involved and he should have given it all he had. I will
agree that design sucked, they should have picked something else.
do not archive
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 17:52Don Gherardini
> might be awful fast for the redrives we have available to us.. I
> keep looking around also at all the new engines and their very hight hp
> ratings with lust...particularl;y motorsusle and snowmobiles....but usually
> find that they are double (or more) the rpms we are used too!....
======================
Yes those hi revs is a concern. Where did you get your Simonini? was it from
Canada?
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: 1997 Sea Doo 787 XP Parts Finder |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Huh..Simonini? not me, I dont have one. Must bethinking of somebody else. I
did look at em at Oshkosh last year...but I have doubts about their HP
claims at such low rpms. Being from the engine industry, I have personal
expierience with euro manufacturers not using the generally accepted (in the
USA) Hp formulas (James Watts) in their marketing and lit.
Someday when we meet, remind me to tell you of a Boss I used to have asking
me "Just who the hell do you think James Watts was anyway? No law says we
have to caculate hp by his formula.!" As a young engineer I thought there
was only one way to caculate hp from Measured torque..... BOY...did I have
alot to learn about marketing!
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Don Gherardini-
FireFly 098
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax-787 100hp question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
If you really want a hundred horses on your Kolb I can give you a deal
on a Hirth F30 (110 hp). Needs gearbox and carbs. Contact me off line.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
Hi all, Gosh I am wondering if Ron has any pic's of his masterpiece in the
making. Since he seems to know more about building a Kolb than the other of
us on the list. Mine as been flying for 10 years, course it may not last
much longer, since I made it by the plans that came with the kit I got from
KOLB.
Richard Harris
MK3 N912RH
Lewisville, Arkansas
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 787 vs. 670
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
>
>
> I am looking for cheap and easy 100 hp engine. I still have some time to
> make up my mind. But it does seem that everytime I look somewhere I end up
> stumbling over one rotax or another. :-)
> I kinda like the Hirth, but it does seem to be a lot more options with the
> Rotax. That 682 Rotax on that site looks ok but notice the RPMs, that
thing
> is puking its guts out at full power, 7K is a lot. I'll call them tomorrow
> and see what they want for it fully dressed.
> anyone has any experience with one of them?
>
>
> ==================================
> 3/12/03 16:31Richard Pike
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
> >
> > If you really are convinced that there is no substitute for Rotax
> > 2-stroke cubic inches...instead of reinventing the wheel,
> > it might be easier to pick up where some else has already
> > laid the foundation...
> > http://rdaerosports.com/
> >
> > Richard Pike
> > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> ==========================
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > Have you
> > flown yours yet.
> > jerb
>
> jerb/Gang:
>
> Didn't know that was a requirement for expert
> status...........
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Hear hear, I am a moderately chunky 6 footer and I was moderately offended.
LOL
Larry Cottrell
Message 45
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
Ed,
My Brock seat tank on my old US held 9 gal.
...Richard Swiderski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Seat tanks
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
>
> Kolbers,
> I have a Ken Brock seat tank that I bought awhile ago from
someone on the list and am curious as to the determination of the capacity.I
was told it was 6 gallons but there is no part number or label.I don't
really want to put gas in it yet(or any other liquid) to find out.The reason
I am wondering is I may try to keep the modified Ultrastar I am building in
the UL category . I have the light 2SI 35hp without the lighting coil and
the belt drive and have been careful with weight and may be able to stay
under the 254 even with a partial enclosure. (Probably dreaming?)
> How many sizes of Brock seat tanks are there and does any one else
manufacture similar units.I was not able to find any info on the Brock site.
> Also , Is it possible to install a permanent gap seal and still
fold an Ultrastar without removing the gap seal ?
> Ed (still shoveling) in Western NY
>
>
Message 46
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Yah...................I'd like that engine for the '29 Model A Sedan I wanna
build. YeeeeHaaaawwww ! ! ! D'ya think I could make it fit on Vamoose
?? It'd be a VTOL Kolb for sure................'specially "L."
Gogittum Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bean" <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: won't fly
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> http://www.cardomain.com/id/chevbelair55
>
> Hey guys, I know it's not kolb related--but what an ambitious project!
> Lar, this should appeal to you especially. -BB do not archive
>
>
Message 47
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> My Brock seat tank on my old US held 9 gal.
> ...Richard Swiderski
Richard/Gang:
I had a 9 gal Ken Brock seat tank in my Firestar
when I met you at Gator Ultralight Park, Nov
1987. Only held 8 gal useable though. Took up a
lot of space in the smallish Firestar cockpit.
Replace the Brock tank and 5 gal jug in the back
with an 18 gal useable 5052 alum tank. Ah, now I
had room for all my gear inside the airplane when
I went cross countrying. Didn't have to hang
anything on the outside.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax-787 100hp question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
Ron,
I converted a SeaDoo 587 for my SlingShot. The case had to be machined,
drilled & tapped to accept a gear box. The PTO end of the crank was
threaded. I got hold of a broke 582 crank that had a good pto end, pulled
it apart & pressed it on the Seadoo crank. the water pump was a bolt on
item. I'm not sure how this compares to the 787. ...Richard Swiserski
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Rotax-787 100hp question
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
>
> In what is fast becoming the eternal quest for the *right* motor. I came
> across a Rotax rotary model 787 110hp two cycle engine. Went and visited a
> shop where they will sell me this motor, for my undisclosed project.
> New with all the stuff attached it came to about 4K. Only show stopper
that
> I could discern is lack of a water pump. This engine is found in the
Seadoo
> line of water splashers.
> Questions;
> 1 anyone familiar with this engine, and if so is it adoptable for aviation
> use?
> 2. I measured the mount on the engine base it is 90mm wide and 150mm long
or
> (9cm-x-15cm). I have not measured but it looks exactly like the regular
Kolb
> Rotax aviation mount.
> 3. where does the rotax water pump attach at on the 582, thinking maybe
its
> not integral to the motor and thus I can fit any standard Rotax water pump
> onto this plant? I took a bunch of photo's of this engine, and if someone
> wants to post them for general viewing I'll email them.
>
> I am not happy to give money to Rotax but for the right engine/HP and a
> reasonable bill, I'd do it.
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax-787 100hp question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
Guys
Here is an f30 for sale with carbs and gear box. Herb
http://www.donateyourplane.com/hirth_.htm
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:23:09 -0500 woody <duesouth@govital.net> writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
>
>
> If you really want a hundred horses on your Kolb I can give you a
> deal
> on a Hirth F30 (110 hp). Needs gearbox and carbs. Contact me off
> line.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 50
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SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OE, USER_IN_WHITELIST)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Folks,
The Harley Davidson project is proving to be more of a challenge! Cutting,fitting
and welding all the pieces for the redrive is taking some serious hours. Not
to mention the facing,fitting and aligning of the prop shaft! However, I am
proud to report, that this project is on target and is looking up. We refitted
the flywheel and did some test run up's with a dummy prop (2by4) and she settled
down quite a bit. We want to make sure this thing will turn the prop that
John Cooley loaned us ok without turning it into tooth pick's! If this engine
works out, who wants to be the first to test fly it on a Kolb?.....
No gut's No Glory!
EXPECT NO MERCY!
pp....
N4958P
Do not archive
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 08:33 PM 3/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
>
>Hi all, Gosh I am wondering if Ron has any pic's of his masterpiece in the
>making. Since he seems to know more about building a Kolb than the other of
>us on the list. Mine as been flying for 10 years, course it may not last
>much longer, since I made it by the plans that came with the kit I got from
>KOLB.
>
>
>Richard Harris
I wonder about this type of thing too. Seems that a lot of people that
have never built a
kolb or anything close seem to want to make their first attempt into a
showplane.
That's OK, but then they seem to want to change the plans (God knows I sure
changed
the plans, but it wasn't my first ultralight or my first kolb). Then they
want to put a
100 HP four stoke engine on it that weighs only 70 pounds and uses 1 gph
that nobody
has ever heard of.
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