Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (Bob Bean)
2. 05:32 AM - R&D to remarket the weedhopper (Jim Gerken)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (Jeremy Casey)
4. 07:07 AM - New EAA Experimenter ()
5. 07:10 AM - Re: R&D to remarket the weedhopper (Richard Pike)
6. 07:35 AM - Re: New EAA Experimenter (John Hauck)
7. 07:36 AM - Re: EVO/AIR Update (CaptainRon)
8. 07:40 AM - Re: R&D to remarket the weedhopper (John Hauck)
9. 07:40 AM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (CaptainRon)
10. 07:46 AM - (Joe Allman)
11. 08:07 AM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (John Hauck)
12. 08:29 AM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (Gary robert voigt)
13. 08:34 AM - Sling Shot Flaperons (John Hauck)
14. 09:00 AM - Re: (Jack & Louise Hart)
15. 09:18 AM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (Eugene Zimmerman)
16. 09:19 AM - Re: (John Hauck)
17. 09:22 AM - Re: Sling Shot Flaperons (BILLBEAM@aol.com)
18. 09:27 AM - Re: New EAA Experimenter (Cy Galley)
19. 09:30 AM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (CaptainRon)
20. 09:49 AM - Re: New EAA Experimenter (John Hauck)
21. 09:52 AM - Re: Sling Shot Flaperons (Peter Volum)
22. 10:05 AM - M3X pics (CaptainRon)
23. 10:07 AM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (John Hauck)
24. 10:33 AM - Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 (Paul Petty)
25. 10:46 AM - Re: EVO/AIR Update (Paul Petty)
26. 11:23 AM - Re: EVO/AIR Update (CaptainRon)
27. 11:25 AM - Re: New EAA Experimenter (Cy Galley)
28. 12:00 PM - mount dimensions (Richard Neitzel)
29. 01:36 PM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (jerb)
30. 01:49 PM - Re: (Jack & Louise Hart)
31. 01:50 PM - Re: Rotax-787 100hp question (woody)
32. 02:37 PM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (William George)
33. 03:23 PM - Re: Junkyard wars motors (jerb)
34. 03:44 PM - Re: EVO/AIR Update (woody)
35. 03:55 PM - Re: [ Paul Petty ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Ed Chmielewski)
36. 04:02 PM - Re: EVO/AIR Update (CaptainRon)
37. 04:24 PM - Re: (jerb)
38. 04:55 PM - Re: [ Paul Petty ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Paul Petty)
39. 05:43 PM - Sling Shot Flaperons (Joe Allman)
40. 05:51 PM - Re: (John Hauck)
41. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Junkyard wars motors (John Hauck)
42. 06:14 PM - Re: R&D to remarket the weedhopper (possums)
43. 06:20 PM - Re: (John Hauck)
44. 06:37 PM - Landing Attitude (John Hauck)
45. 10:22 PM - [ Danny Bradshaw ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
46. 10:26 PM - [ Chris Sudlow ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
47. 10:37 PM - [ Captain Ron ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Guess I'm guilty of some of those accusations too, but then that's why I
wanted an "experimental". That's the frustratin' part of having a standard
type cetificated plane - the "original equipment", no matter how crappy
can't be substituted with something really new and better without an act
of congress. To get an STC you have to conjure up 50 lbs of documentation
and grovel in front of your local FAA bureaucrats. --loving my little
beastie in the basement, BB do not archive
(hmmm, turn the tailplanes backwards and fly it as a canard???)
possums wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
>
>At 08:33 PM 3/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
>>
>>Hi all, Gosh I am wondering if Ron has any pic's of his masterpiece in the
>>making. Since he seems to know more about building a Kolb than the other of
>>us on the list. Mine as been flying for 10 years, course it may not last
>>much longer, since I made it by the plans that came with the kit I got from
>>KOLB.
>>
>>
>>Richard Harris
>>
>>
>
>I wonder about this type of thing too. Seems that a lot of people that
>have never built a
>kolb or anything close seem to want to make their first attempt into a
>showplane.
>That's OK, but then they seem to want to change the plans (God knows I sure
>changed
>the plans, but it wasn't my first ultralight or my first kolb). Then they
>want to put a
>100 HP four stoke engine on it that weighs only 70 pounds and uses 1 gph
>that nobody
>has ever heard of.
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | R&D to remarket the weedhopper |
03/13/2003 07:31:30 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Gerken" <gerken@us.ibm.com>
I followed the link to R&D Aerosports (we call them Rev & Destroy
Aeroplanes), and WOW they are now selling something that looks suspiciously
like a weedhopper with an improved wing. These guys are really out of
touch. It's like they sat down with a case of beer and brainstormed on how
to have all the worst products possible.
Jim
Message 3
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| Subject: | Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey@ldl.net>
No! and by now I have been conditioned to simply have spare parts ready
for
after that first flight. :-)
There was a contest involved and he should have given it all he had. I
will
agree that design sucked, they should have picked something else.
do not archive
Captain Ron!!!
Somethings in this life are worth dying for, but a silly reality show is
NOT one of them! It flew...but not WELL and the TEST pilot decided it
was better to walk away. He gets NO CONDEMNATION from me...
Jeremy Casey
Like momma used to say, "It's all fun-n-games until somebody looses an
eye..."
Message 4
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| Subject: | New EAA Experimenter |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
I see Minnesota Kolb lister Dale Seltzer and his Mrs made the latest Experimenter
Mag.
He wrote this months " What EAA means to me".
Very nice job Dale.
Denny Rowe
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: R&D to remarket the weedhopper |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
And on top of that, their web page spells "introduce" wrong...
(Always wonder about them entre-manures with spiffy new products,
and meanwhile their web pages display marginal literacy...)
(Now watch, my next several posts will probably be full of mistreaks)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:31 AM 3/13/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Gerken" <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>
>I followed the link to R&D Aerosports (we call them Rev & Destroy
>Aeroplanes), and WOW they are now selling something that looks suspiciously
>like a weedhopper with an improved wing. These guys are really out of
>touch. It's like they sat down with a case of beer and brainstormed on how
>to have all the worst products possible.
>
>
>Jim
Do Not Archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New EAA Experimenter |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
r
> I see Minnesota Kolb lister Dale Seltzer and his Mrs made the latest Experimenter
Mag.
> He wrote this months " What EAA means to me".
> Denny Rowe
Denny/Gang:
I saw that too.
"What EAA means to me." Well, after 20 years,
when it came time to renew my membership this
year, I had reservations about handing out $60.00
for my membership, Sport Aviation and
Experiementer. I kept putting off sticking a
check in the mail. Then I got to the expiration
date and needed the membership renewal for my EAA
Chap renewal. Called a very nice young man at
Oshkosh. Told him how I felt about the high price
of membership. He said why don't I drop one of my
mags and the fee would be reduced from $60.00 to
$30.00. Wow! That is $20.00 cheaper than USUA
which I think is about $50.00 a year. I opted for
Experiementer and dropped Sport Aviation. Nice
mag but subjects did not necessarily interest me.
I am a little airplane guy.
Camped with Dale and his wife, also Scott Trask
from UP of Michigan, two years ago at Oshkosh.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EVO/AIR Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/12/03 21:48Paul Petty
> who wants to be the first to test fly it on a Kolb?.....
====================
How smooth will it be? and will it fit the Kolb mount?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: R&D to remarket the weedhopper |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
watch, my next several posts will probably be
full of mistreaks)
>
> Richard Pike
Richard/Gang:
Know what you mean. My "brilliant" mind is
usually working at the speed of sound. My fingers
are stumbling along somewhere around crawling and
limping. Usually, I am tired and do not want to
go back to proof what I have just written. As I
proof my msgs for the first time, after they have
been posted, I find that I have made some
startling typos..........sometimes changing the
entire meaning of what I was trying to get across.
This post also reminds me of how basic emailing
is. Very difficult to get across how we really
feel and what we are trying to convey and in what
frame of mind we are in.
But we can still stay in touch.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
hard Harris
>
> I wonder about this type of thing too. Seems that a lot of people that
> have never built a
> kolb or anything close seem to want to make their first attempt into a
> showplane.
> That's OK, but then they seem to want to change the plans (God knows I sure
> changed
> the plans, but it wasn't my first ultralight or my first kolb). Then they
> want to put a
> 100 HP four stoke engine on it that weighs only 70 pounds and uses 1 gph
> that nobody
> has ever heard of.
============================
Anyone that wants a couple of pics of my progress can ask for them. I have
two on the HD and can mail them out anytime. :-)
do not archive
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
As a long time lurker on the list I'd like to say thanks for all the great
info.
I was wondering if anyone could share their thoughts regarding flaps and
usefulness. I've
got 25 or 30 hours in a slingshot. Learned to fly it without flaps (on the
advice of a friend) but I've been experimenting a little lately.
Thanks,
Joe
SS-582
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Anyone that wants a couple of pics of my progress can ask for them. I have
> two on the HD and can mail them out anytime. :-)
Ron/Gang:
Send them to me and I'll stick them on my index
page for all the world to see.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gary robert voigt" <johndeereantique@qwest.net>
I agree, something's in life are just not worth it...i'am very surprised
they did not make them attach a chute...although a chute would not have made
a difference at 40 feet . i thought the show was poorly written about safety
issues even though they got the ok.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
Jeremy Casey wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey@ldl.net>
>
> No! and by now I have been conditioned to simply have spare parts ready
> for
> after that first flight. :-)
> There was a contest involved and he should have given it all he had. I
> will
> agree that design sucked, they should have picked something else.
>
> do not archive
>
> Captain Ron!!!
>
> Somethings in this life are worth dying for, but a silly reality show is
> NOT one of them! It flew...but not WELL and the TEST pilot decided it
> was better to walk away. He gets NO CONDEMNATION from me...
>
> Jeremy Casey
>
> Like momma used to say, "It's all fun-n-games until somebody looses an
> eye..."
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Sling Shot Flaperons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I was wondering if anyone could share their thoughts regarding flaps and
> usefulness. Learned to fly it without flaps (on the
> advice of a friend)
> Joe
Joe/Gang:
Makes me smile everytime I see similar comments
about flaps and flaperons. I love my flaps on my
MK III. I use them normally for every landing,
unless there is a tremendous cross wind or
turbulence. Full flaps on the MK III, 40 deg,
slows my stall speed solo from 40 to near 35 mph.
Flaps give me the ability to fly safe, steep,
approaches at 60 to 65 mph. Help me stop much
quicker on the ground. Flaps drop the nose to
give me better visability. Give me the ability to
break loose from muddy, tall grass, sandy, wet
soggy grassy unimproved airstrips, by popping full
flaps at about 30 mph, then slowly pushing them
back up.
I have some time in the SS, 582 and 912 powered.
I use the flaperons for landing and for slowing
down, especially when in the Oshkosh and Lakeland
UL traffic pattern. I don't use flaps/flaperons
for takeoff except as mentioned above. They
degrade normal takeoff and climb performance.
Kolbs climb much better clean.
There is nothing dangerous about flap use, as long
as you keep your airspeed above the stall. The
airplane is going to slow down quicker when you
bring back the power. No problem, push the nose
over to maintain safe airspeed, for me, about 10
mph over stall, depending on wind and turbulence.
I don't use them iF I must negotiate a terrific
cross wind and/or a turbulent wind condition on
landing.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 10:41 AM 3/13/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
>
>
>As a long time lurker on the list I'd like to say thanks for all the great
>info.
>
> I was wondering if anyone could share their thoughts regarding flaps and
>usefulness. I've
> got 25 or 30 hours in a slingshot. Learned to fly it without flaps (on the
> advice of a friend) but I've been experimenting a little lately.
>
> Thanks,
>
Joe,
Before landing with flaperons, be sure to practice landing approach decents at
altitude to be sure that you have enough stick left to pull up the nose and to
flair.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman@dejazzd.com>
CaptainRon wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
>
> hard Harris
> >
> > I wonder about this type of thing too. Seems that a lot of people that
> > have never built a
> > kolb or anything close seem to want to make their first attempt into a
> > showplane.
> > That's OK, but then they seem to want to change the plans (God knows I sure
> > changed
> > the plans, but it wasn't my first ultralight or my first kolb). Then they
> > want to put a
> > 100 HP four stoke engine on it that weighs only 70 pounds and uses 1 gph
> > that nobody
> > has ever heard of.
> ============================
>
> Anyone that wants a couple of pics of my progress can ask for them. I have
> two on the HD and can mail them out anytime. :-)
>
> do not archive
>
Yep, sure would like to see em. Send em my way.
Thanks,
Gene
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Before landing with flaperons, be sure to practice landing approach decents at
altitude to be sure that you have enough stick left to pull up the nose and
to flair.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack/Gang:
If you keep a good cross check of your airspeed
indicator, keep 10 mph over the stall with full
flaperons, you will not run out of elevator and
you will not stall.
If you let your airspeed get too low, at or just a
hair over stall speed, you will probably stall the
airplane before you are ready to land, not
necessarily run out of aft stick, i.e., elevator
authority. The wings will stall before the
elevator.
Forgot to mention, assumed you already knew, to
stall the aircraft at a safe altitude (1,000 feet
or higher) clean and with full flaperons. Note
the airspeed at which it stalls in each
configuration. Keep 10 mph above that and you
will be home clean.
The Fire Fly will not run out of elevator. If it
would, it would do it when Brian Blackwood was
flying it. He is a big man, goes well over 200
lbs. I mean "well" over 200 lbs. It flies well
with Brian.
john h
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Sling Shot Flaperons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BILLBEAM@aol.com
Hey folks,
I'm selling out lots of stuff from my Firestar. Great helmet and vhf radio
system
up for bid on Ebay. Click <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=310&item=2717142194">eBay
item 2717142194 (Ends Mar-19-03 16:15:14
PST
) - Ultra light Airplane VHF
Bill Beams
308 Jessamine Station Road
Wilmore, Kentucky 40390
Phone: 859-858-3168
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: New EAA Experimenter |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
John and others,
If you don't like what you see in the Experimenter; write an article. At
least suggest what information of topic interests you. I'll bet if you are
interested that there are others.
The Lurker - Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New EAA Experimenter
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> r
> > I see Minnesota Kolb lister Dale Seltzer and his Mrs made the latest
Experimenter Mag.
> > He wrote this months " What EAA means to me".
>
> > Denny Rowe
>
> Denny/Gang:
>
> I saw that too.
>
> "What EAA means to me." Well, after 20 years,
> when it came time to renew my membership this
> year, I had reservations about handing out $60.00
> for my membership, Sport Aviation and
> Experiementer. I kept putting off sticking a
> check in the mail. Then I got to the expiration
> date and needed the membership renewal for my EAA
> Chap renewal. Called a very nice young man at
> Oshkosh. Told him how I felt about the high price
> of membership. He said why don't I drop one of my
> mags and the fee would be reduced from $60.00 to
> $30.00. Wow! That is $20.00 cheaper than USUA
> which I think is about $50.00 a year. I opted for
> Experiementer and dropped Sport Aviation. Nice
> mag but subjects did not necessarily interest me.
> I am a little airplane guy.
>
> Camped with Dale and his wife, also Scott Trask
> from UP of Michigan, two years ago at Oshkosh.
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/13/03 9:06John Hauck
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>> Anyone that wants a couple of pics of my progress can ask for them. I have
>> two on the HD and can mail them out anytime. :-)
>
> Ron/Gang:
>
> Send them to me and I'll stick them on my index
> page for all the world to see.
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
================
Well, will do. I have in fact just sent a few to the Matronics list. Please
no nitpickings as I can assure anyone that I am very well familiar with
every little, and not so little imprefection in that incipient flying
contraption. By the way if Birmingaham Alabummer is not too far from you and
you happen to be there, can you check out that religous F-30 on sale down
there.
That fella who answered the phone was fairly adamant about the *as is*
condition of his *near new* donated motor. :-)
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: New EAA Experimenter |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> If you don't like what you see in the Experimenter; write an article.
> The Lurker - Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Cy/Gang:
That ain't what I said. Here is what I said:
> I opted for
> Experiementer and dropped Sport Aviation. Nice
> mag but subjects did not necessarily interest me.
> I am a little airplane guy.
For 20 years I have been getting Sport Aviation.
I have been getting Experimenter since its
inception and when it was called Light Plane World
or some such name. Sport Aviation has very little
interest for me. I am not all that interested in
high dollar aviation. It seems that that is the
direction of Sport Aviation.
Again, I am a little airplane guy. I have written
articles that were published in Experimenter in
the past. For me it takes a lot of my time to
write an article. I spend too much time following
the Kolb List already. Doesn't leave much time
for flying, mountain biking, riding the enduro
bike in the woods, and traveling with the 5th
wheel. Not enough time in a day. :-)
john h
Mayor of hauck's holler aviation.
Airfield Commander of Gantt International Airport.
Chief Pilot of the Titus, Alabama, Air
Farce........
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 21
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| Subject: | Sling Shot Flaperons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" <peterv@etsmiami.com>
John, out of curiosity... what is your maximum crosswind component with
full flaps? Where do you draw the line?
I really enjoy making steep approach / full flap landings on my Mk III
almost as much as I enjoy the expressions on first time full-flap
landing passengers (usually GA types). You can almost read their
minds... "is this normal???"
Peter
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Joe/Gang:
I love my flaps on my MK III. I use them normally for every landing,
unless there is a tremendous cross wind or
turbulence.
Message 22
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
I have sent some pics to the Matronics list they should be there by Mmmmmmm
I really don't know how long it takes to post pics.
They are titled M3X something or other.
I am getting a lot of requests for them.... Obviously I need a web site.
do not archive.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Please
> no nitpickings as I can assure anyone that I am very well familiar with
> every little, and not so little imprefection in that incipient flying
> contraption. Ropn
OK Gang:
Ron's pics are posted:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Ron's%20Pics/
Did he say, "Let the nit picking begin" ? hehehe
Have at him, Gang.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 787 vs. 670 |
USER_AGENT_OE, USER_IN_WHITELIST)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Who posted this? Was it me?
Is this my HD project?
pp....
N4958P
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 787 vs. 670
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
>
> 3/13/03 9:06John Hauck
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> >
> >> Anyone that wants a couple of pics of my progress can ask for them. I
have
> >> two on the HD and can mail them out anytime. :-)
> >
> > Ron/Gang:
> >
> > Send them to me and I'll stick them on my index
> > page for all the world to see.
> >
> > john h
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> ================
>
> Well, will do. I have in fact just sent a few to the Matronics list.
Please
> no nitpickings as I can assure anyone that I am very well familiar with
> every little, and not so little imprefection in that incipient flying
> contraption. By the way if Birmingaham Alabummer is not too far from you
and
> you happen to be there, can you check out that religous F-30 on sale down
> there.
> That fella who answered the phone was fairly adamant about the *as is*
> condition of his *near new* donated motor. :-)
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: EVO/AIR Update |
USER_AGENT_OE, USER_IN_WHITELIST)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Good question Ron. Send me the dimensions of the Kolb mount and I will draft
a mount.We and any others that want to share can work out the mounting angle
and so forth. We will the build the housing for the redrive and use a dual
belt/pulley set up.Run that for several hours and fine tune it. Then I'll
ship it out to who ever wants to give it a spin!
pp....
N4958P
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EVO/AIR Update
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
>
> 3/12/03 21:48Paul Petty
>
> > who wants to be the first to test fly it on a Kolb?.....
> ====================
>
> How smooth will it be? and will it fit the Kolb mount?
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: EVO/AIR Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/13/03 11:47Paul Petty
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Good question Ron. Send me the dimensions of the Kolb mount and I will draft
> a mount.We and any others that want to share can work out the mounting angle
> and so forth. We will the build the housing for the redrive and use a dual
> belt/pulley set up.Run that for several hours and fine tune it. Then I'll
> ship it out to who ever wants to give it a spin!
> pp....
> N4958P
>
> Do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EVO/AIR Update
>
=====================
Ok I'll get back to you this afternoon. I'll go and measure, Maybe somebody
knows right off the top what the dimensions are for the Kolb mount, if so
please post them.
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: New EAA Experimenter |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Sorry I mis-read your words.
Still in all, any magazine rises and falls with reader interest. If you
have an interest, tell us so we can be responsive to our readers.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New EAA Experimenter
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > If you don't like what you see in the Experimenter; write an article.
> > The Lurker - Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Cy/Gang:
>
> That ain't what I said. Here is what I said:
>
> > I opted for
> > Experiementer and dropped Sport Aviation. Nice
> > mag but subjects did not necessarily interest me.
> > I am a little airplane guy.
>
> For 20 years I have been getting Sport Aviation.
> I have been getting Experimenter since its
> inception and when it was called Light Plane World
> or some such name. Sport Aviation has very little
> interest for me. I am not all that interested in
> high dollar aviation. It seems that that is the
> direction of Sport Aviation.
>
> Again, I am a little airplane guy. I have written
> articles that were published in Experimenter in
> the past. For me it takes a lot of my time to
> write an article. I spend too much time following
> the Kolb List already. Doesn't leave much time
> for flying, mountain biking, riding the enduro
> bike in the woods, and traveling with the 5th
> wheel. Not enough time in a day. :-)
>
> john h
> Mayor of hauck's holler aviation.
> Airfield Commander of Gantt International Airport.
> Chief Pilot of the Titus, Alabama, Air
> Farce........
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | mount dimensions |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Neitzel" <neitzel@newnorth.net>
Greetings
I had just removed my engine in preparation to cover the cage on my MARK III so
it was easy to get the dimensions of the mount. Measuring to the center of the
Lord mounts it is 7 inches wide by 9 7/16 long.
Hope this helps
Dick Neitzel
Sayner WI Mark III 582
Message 29
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| Subject: | Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
I don't think pushing things to the point of someone possibly getting
killed is what the program was all about. I sense you may fall into the
category of one of those parents that can't set back let the little kids
simply play ball. Perhaps you should apply and take your shot at
it. Their taking applications.
jerb
At 09:01 AM 3/13/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey@ldl.net>
>
>
>No! and by now I have been conditioned to simply have spare parts ready
>for
>after that first flight. :-)
> There was a contest involved and he should have given it all he had. I
>will
>agree that design sucked, they should have picked something else.
>
>do not archive
>
>
>Captain Ron!!!
>
>Somethings in this life are worth dying for, but a silly reality show is
>NOT one of them! It flew...but not WELL and the TEST pilot decided it
>was better to walk away. He gets NO CONDEMNATION from me...
>
>Jeremy Casey
>
>Like momma used to say, "It's all fun-n-games until somebody looses an
>eye..."
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 11:19 AM 3/13/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>> Before landing with flaperons, be sure to practice landing approach decents
at altitude to be sure that you have enough stick left to pull up the nose and
to flair.
>>
>> Jack B. Hart FF004
>
>Jack/Gang:
>...........
>The Fire Fly will not run out of elevator. If it
>would, it would do it when Brian Blackwood was
>flying it. He is a big man, goes well over 200
>lbs. I mean "well" over 200 lbs. It flies well
>with Brian.
>
>john h
>
John,
My FireFly with full flaperons (about 20 degrees), at 50 mphi and with the engine
at an idle, the stick will be back against the stop, and it is dropping like
a rock. I weigh close to 200 pounds. It is impossible to flair my FireFly
in this condition. One must remove flaperons before advancing the throttle, or
it will get worse. The horizontal stabilizer is set for cruise at 55 mphi with
the stick and elevator in neutral (mid point of elevator travel) position.
My FireFly has nine chord flaperons. The current eleven or the original fifteen
inch flaperons would only make it worse.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
.
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax-787 100hp question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
At 09:52 PM 3/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
>
>Guys
> Here is an f30 for sale with carbs and gear box. Herb
>
>http://www.donateyourplane.com/hirth_.htm
>
If I was hunting for an engine I would have gone for it. great deal
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com>
Hey John,
I have really been enjoying the close up pix of Miss Pfer, but all the ones
in this digest are a no go. Error 404.
Flew 1.2 today in glass smooth air. The Verner is running splendidly and gas
consumption looks to be about 2.75 gph. Cruise rpm of 3800 give a TAS of 64
mph. We ain't burning a hole in the sky but we're havin' fun.
do not archive
Bill George
Kolb Mk-3/Verner1400SVS/Powerfin 68" "F"
> From: Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:56:16 -0800
> To: Kolb-List Digest List <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 51 Msgs - 03/12/03
>
>
> jerb/Gang:
>
> Check out this pic of Miss P'fer landing at South
> Mississippi Light Aircraft:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Final.JPG
>
> Power is at idle, 40 deg (full) flaps, settling in
> to land. Wing incidence is slight, horizontal
> stabilizer is parallel with line of flight, and
> elevator is lined up with horz stab even though it
> takes more aft stick pressure to keep the nose up
> with full flaps. Inside the cockpit one feels
> like we are applying great amounts of aft stick,
> in this configuration, when in fact we are
> applying force, but not moving the elevator up but
> a slight amount. Leading edge of horz stab is
> about midway point on boom tube.
>
> john h
Message 33
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| Subject: | Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
Captain Ron,
Before you even respond I probably have gotten a little to vocal about this
topic. Your comments just hit a couple sensitive buttons I encountered in
the past, one the issue with parents and the other regarding poor
sportsmanship conduct I've seen by Dallas sport spectators. We don't have
very good role models here when it comes to our sports teams or the
spectators.
What I should have said is it would not have left a good impression if
someone would have pushed the limits to the point of being injured. It
would have hurt aviation over all. We have already suffered enough with
9-1-1, the 60 minutes program and the hatchet jobs by the news media each
time a incident does occur. Myself I enjoyed it as it was and feel all
were winners, they flew their creation and walked away uninjured.
jerb
At 03:36 PM 3/13/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
>
>I don't think pushing things to the point of someone possibly getting
>killed is what the program was all about. I sense you may fall into the
>category of one of those parents that can't set back let the little kids
>simply play ball. Perhaps you should apply and take your shot at
>it. Their taking applications.
>jerb
>
>At 09:01 AM 3/13/03 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey@ldl.net>
> >
> >
> >No! and by now I have been conditioned to simply have spare parts ready
> >for
> >after that first flight. :-)
> > There was a contest involved and he should have given it all he had. I
> >will
> >agree that design sucked, they should have picked something else.
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >Captain Ron!!!
> >
> >Somethings in this life are worth dying for, but a silly reality show is
> >NOT one of them! It flew...but not WELL and the TEST pilot decided it
> >was better to walk away. He gets NO CONDEMNATION from me...
> >
> >Jeremy Casey
> >
> >Like momma used to say, "It's all fun-n-games until somebody looses an
> >eye..."
> >
> >
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: EVO/AIR Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: woody <duesouth@govital.net>
>
>We want to make sure this thing will turn the prop that John Cooley loaned
>us ok without turning it into tooth pick's! If this engine works out, who
>wants to be the first to test fly it on a Kolb?.....
>No gut's No Glory!
>EXPECT NO MERCY!
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: [ Paul Petty ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Uh, Paul, are you sure this isn't for a C-130? Those 4 wide blades are very
impressive!
Ed in JXN
MkII/503/3 skinny blades
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Paul Petty <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
>
> Subject: The Harley test w/ p47 prop
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ppetty@c-gate.net.03.08.2003/index.html
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: EVO/AIR Update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
3/13/03 11:47Paul Petty
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Good question Ron. Send me the dimensions of the Kolb mount and I will draft
> a mount.We and any others that want to share can work out the mounting angle
> and so forth. We will the build the housing for the redrive and use a dual
> belt/pulley set up.Run that for several hours and fine tune it. Then I'll
> ship it out to who ever wants to give it a spin!
> pp....
> N4958P
>
=============================
Greetings
I had just removed my engine in preparation to cover the cage on my MARK III
so it was easy to get the dimensions of the mount. Measuring to the center
of the Lord mounts it is 7 inches wide by 9 7/16 long.
Hope this helps
Dick Neitzel
Sayner WI Mark III 582
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
We very seldom land our FireFly with full flapperons. Were running a
little heavier than you, 260#. Learned to keep the speed up on approach
(55-60) down to the flare as the speed bleeds off rapidly as you start to
flare with the sink rate increasing. If you were using just one or two
notches of flapperons, I would say you might see a higher stall speed and a
more noticeable sink rate since you have effectively reduced the wings
surface area.
With full flapperons applied I would expect to see a higher sink rate as
they would still produce a noticeable amount of drag compared to two
notches on our plane producing more lift than drag. I know we don't like
to be below 50 unless were near the ground.
jerb
At 03:46 PM 3/13/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
>At 11:19 AM 3/13/03 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> >
> >> Before landing with flaperons, be sure to practice landing approach
> decents at altitude to be sure that you have enough stick left to pull up
> the nose and to flair.
> >>
> >> Jack B. Hart FF004
> >
> >Jack/Gang:
> >...........
> >The Fire Fly will not run out of elevator. If it
> >would, it would do it when Brian Blackwood was
> >flying it. He is a big man, goes well over 200
> >lbs. I mean "well" over 200 lbs. It flies well
> >with Brian.
> >
> >john h
> >
>John,
>
>My FireFly with full flaperons (about 20 degrees), at 50 mphi and with the
>engine at an idle, the stick will be back against the stop, and it is
>dropping like a rock. I weigh close to 200 pounds. It is impossible to
>flair my FireFly in this condition. One must remove flaperons before
>advancing the throttle, or it will get worse. The horizontal stabilizer
>is set for cruise at 55 mphi with the stick and elevator in neutral (mid
>point of elevator travel) position. My FireFly has nine chord
>flaperons. The current eleven or the original fifteen inch flaperons
>would only make it worse.
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Jackson, MO
>
>.
>
>
>Jack & Louise Hart
>jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: [ Paul Petty ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
USER_IN_WHITELIST)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Ed, That prop is off our 1/2 scale P47 hehehe... was just goofing around
late one night and set it up there for the fun of it.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: [ Paul Petty ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Chmielewski"
<edchmiel@mindspring.com>
>
> Uh, Paul, are you sure this isn't for a C-130? Those 4 wide blades are
very
> impressive!
>
> Ed in JXN
> MkII/503/3 skinny blades
>
>
> > A new Email List Photo Share is available:
> >
> > Poster: Paul Petty <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> >
> >
> > Subject: The Harley test w/ p47 prop
> >
> >
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ppetty@c-gate.net.03.08.2003/index.html
> >
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Sling Shot Flaperons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
Thanks for all the advice on flaperons. There's just no substitute for
experience!
I have stalled the airplane in all configurations and I do recognize that I
can steepen the glide path with flaperons down. However, with my 200 pounds
in the seat it already glides about like my car keys.
With all that said, next time out I'm going to give it a try. I'd
considered that I could probably cross the fence slower but I had not
considered what John said about the rollout being shorter. There's that
experience again.
As far as running out of elevator, I have never noticed it and I think
that's the kind of thing I probably wouldn't forget. However, I'll be sure
and experiment with a little altitude first.
Land slower and stop quicker-what could be wrong with that?
Thanks guys,
Joe
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Jack/Gang:
Boy! It would be nice to sit down and talk face
to face about some of these problems we encounter
with our little airplanes. Would be much easier
and more beneficial doing it in person.
> My FireFly with full flaperons (about 20 degrees), at 50 mphi and with the engine
at an idle, the stick will be back against the stop, and it is dropping like
a rock.
The above statement tells me you are in a
mush/stall. As long as you hold the stick back to
the stop, in that configuration or with clean
flaperons, you will never recover until you mush
it into the ground. If it ain't flying, it is
stalling and falling, even though most Kolbs can
be controlled in roll in the mush.
I have flown the Kolb Factory Firefly quite a bit
in different configurations of the ailerons.
Everything else on the airplane is rigged
according to the plans and instructions. You have
done some of your own rigging of the horizontal
stabilizer, as far as I am aware of. Do not know
if that is affecting flight characteristics or
not.
Have you experimented with 60 MPH, without the
stick aft to the stop? Seems you may need to
increase your landing speed somewhat.
> I weigh close to 200 pounds. It is impossible to flair my FireFly in this condition.
One must remove flaperons before advancing the throttle, or it will
get worse.
Adding power will not help when the aircraft is
mushing and stalling. Any airplane. Even though
you are still in a level attitude and your brain
is telling you you are flying, you are most likely
in a full mush/stall. Kolbs are fabulous and
devious in this case. I have a good friend that
busted his butt in an Ultrastar because he thought
he was flying and he was actually in a level
mush. I experienced the same sensation when the
582 on my MK III seized for the second time in a
few minutes on takeoff. My mind told me I should
be flying because the airplane was level in pitch
and roll, but she was stalled and mushing in.
Ouch! They sure hit hard in that state and the
ground in that cow pasture was awfully hard.
The horizontal stabilizer is set for cruise at 55
mphi with the stick and elevator in neutral (mid
point of elevator travel) position. My FireFly
has nine chord flaperons. The current eleven or
the original fifteen inch flaperons would only
make it worse.
john h
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Junkyard wars motors |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I have really been enjoying the close up pix of Miss Pfer, but all the ones
> in this digest are a no go. Error 404. Bill George
Hi Bill/Gang:
I did some shuffling around on the index page. Go
to the main directory and click on Miss P'fer
file. You'll get all the pics that Paul Petty and
John Cooley donated recently.
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/
The Ron File is the pics of the Desert Rat from
Sierra Vista with the baby blue fuselage. hehehe
Where did you get that color from Ron? That
should go on a baby bed!
> Flew 1.2 today in glass smooth air. The Verner is running splendidly and gas
> consumption looks to be about 2.75 gph. Cruise rpm of 3800 give a TAS of 64
> mph. We ain't burning a hole in the sky but we're havin' fun.
Looks like you are having fun. Glad you have not
sold your Kolb. When you wear out the Verner,
spring for a 912S and really have some fun. Burns
twice as much fuel, but kicks you in the butt
twice as hard! Don't tell me you can not afford
it. Airline Captains (real ones) have lots of
money. hehehe
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: R&D to remarket the weedhopper |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 09:40 AM 3/13/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>This post also reminds me of how basic emailing
>is. Very difficult to get across how we really
>feel and what we are trying to convey and in what
>frame of mind we are in.
>
>john h
> > I wonder about this type of thing too. Seems that a lot of people that
> > have never built a
> > kolb or anything close seem to want to make their first attempt into a
> > showplane.
> > That's OK, but then they seem to want to change the plans (God knows I
sure
> > changed
> > the plans, but it wasn't my first ultralight or my first kolb). Then they
> > want to put a
> > 100 HP four stoke engine on it that weighs only 70 pounds and uses 1 gph
> > that nobody
> > has ever heard of.
Thisone/mine is a prime example of that. After I read it online it
didn't come out at all like I meant it to.
Sorry guys - not trying to put anyone down.
Keep up the experiments, just don't kill yourselves.
Possum
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> The horizontal stabilizer is set for cruise at 55
> mphi with the stick and elevator in neutral (mid
> point of elevator travel) position. My FireFly
> has nine chord flaperons. The current eleven or
> the original fifteen inch flaperons would only
> make it worse.
>
> john h
Gang:
The paragraph above is from Jack's original msg.
I failed to cut it before I hit the send button.
Xin Loi!
john h
hauck's holler aviator of the year (I'm the only
aviator at hauck's holler) :-)
Message 44
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| Subject: | Landing Attitude |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi You All!
We have been talking a little bit about landing
configurations/attitudes, etc. This pic shows
Miss P'fer about to land. Airspeed is about 45
mph, full (40 deg) flaps:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Miss%20P'fer/Final.JPG
She is in a level attitude. Notice how high the
tail flies, i.e., the tail boom in relation to the
ground. Engine is at idle. She'll touch down in
a second.
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Miss%20P'fer/Final%202.jpg
Both these pics are the same. The first was
cropped quite a bit. The second gives a better
perspective of where the aircraft is in relation
to the ground.
Also notice that the horizontal stabs and are
parallel with the ground and the elevator is in
line with the horizontal stabs. You would think
that I would have the stick pulled back to the
stop with the elevators full up. If I did, I
would have the nose pointing to the sky
momentarily before I stalled and crashed. Many
times what we perceive in the cockpit is not what
our control surfaces are doing out there in the
airstream.
john h
Message 45
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| Subject: | [ Danny Bradshaw ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Danny Bradshaw <PIPERJ5@shtc.net>
Subject: Hot Box and Battery installation on Firestar
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/PIPERJ5@shtc.net.03.13.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
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o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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Message 46
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| Subject: | [ Chris Sudlow ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Chris Sudlow <sudlow77@earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb Mark III Photos
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/sudlow77@earthlink.net.03.13.2003/index.html
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Message 47
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| Subject: | [ Captain Ron ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Captain Ron <CaptainRon@theriver.com>
Subject: M3X under construction March-2003
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