---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/13/03: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:55 AM - Re: Tuning the EIS for a 582 (Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious) 2. 06:52 AM - Re: Tuning the EIS for a 582 (John Hauck) 3. 12:10 PM - Poly Spray - Cage (Mike Pierzina) 4. 12:21 PM - Biennial flight reviews (Richard Pike) 5. 12:35 PM - Re: Tuning the EIS for a 582 () 6. 01:39 PM - Fabric Finish (Lawrence M. Rice) 7. 02:04 PM - Kolb BFRs (Ron Aerial) 8. 02:15 PM - Re: Fabric Finish (Ron Aerial) 9. 02:30 PM - Re: Kolb BFRs (John Hauck) 10. 03:14 PM - Re: Fabric Finish (Larry Bourne) 11. 05:27 PM - Latex paint on aircraft (Richard Pike) 12. 05:46 PM - Re: Latex paint on aircraft (Richard Pike) 13. 06:13 PM - AIS (Clay Stuart) 14. 06:21 PM - Re: Fabric Finish (ul15rhb@juno.com) 15. 09:58 PM - Re: Latex paint on aircraft (GeoR38@aol.com) 16. 10:23 PM - Re: Tuning the EIS for a 582 (GeoR38@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:59 AM PST US From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tuning the EIS for a 582 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Richard, the temp climbs slowly. How does the placement of the probe affect the temps? Is that critical ? Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious Tenacity Farm Campbellsburg, Kentucky From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tuning the EIS for a 582 -- Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Very likely that since the airplane is not in flight, there is just not enough air moving through the radiators. If it is only getting to 191 on the ground, you will probably have no problems in flight. On the other hand... how long does it take (at 6,000 rpm) to get to 191? If it takes 20-30 seconds to go from 150-160 up to 191, it is OK. But if it goes up really quick, not so good. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 07:03 PM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote: -- Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, Kory Brocious" Folks, N57MB ("Miss B") is getting close to flying. I'm in the process of tuning the EIS to the correct temps and RMPsper the manual and then easing into a WOT test. Today my CHT and EGT were fine up to 6000 RPMs which is as high as I went. But the coolant temp hit 191. The max is suppose to be 175. I could bring the idle back down to 3500 and the temp would drop back to the normal range. My first inclination is to check the probe to be sure it is set right then replace the coolant. I will be the first to confess that I know squat about 2 cycle engines and am intimidated by this little screamer. I would appreciate any thoughts from those of you more experienced with the Rotax 582. Suggestions about placement of the probe or anything else to check would be most appreciated. By the way, the CHT hovered around 210 and the EGT was 1050, therebouts at 5500 RPMs. Bob Campbellsburg, KY ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:21 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tuning the EIS for a 582 --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Richard, the temp climbs slowly. How does the placement of the probe affect the temps? Is that critical ? > Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious Bob/Gang: I agree with Richard. If the temp is increasing slowly it is probably not getting enough air in the static, high power setting position. Should do just fine flying when you have 60 or 70 mph wind to assist the prop to cool the radiators. Normal placement of the temp sender for a "normal" analog gauge is in the cyclinder head, according to the diagram in the operators manual. I am ignorant when it comes to EIS procedures. john h ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:35 PM PST US From: "Mike Pierzina" Subject: Kolb-List: Poly Spray - Cage --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" Hey Guys, Thanks for the Info. I'm not going to spray the inside of the cage and I'll probly look for some fabric or carpet to protect it from UV rays. I took my First Bi - annual review today ( Cessna 172 ) I haven't flown for a year and 4 mos. and to top it off the winds were a little HIGH and mild gusts. I was a little rusty but I PASSED...Yippieeeeee It's a good thing too, because it cost 192.50 the price went up on the older Cessnas and it jumped to 35.00per hour for the instructor. it's a good thing I'm building my own plane. How do flight reviews work with the Kolb ? Do I still have to take it in the Cessna ? Gotta Fly... Mike FSII,Color coat soon --- Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down... Gotta Fly... ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:52 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Biennial flight reviews --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike At 02:09 PM 4/13/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" > > How do flight reviews work with the Kolb ? > Do I still have to take it in the Cessna ? > Gotta Fly... > Mike FSII,Color coat soon Depends - on the flight instructor. Since the instructor I fly with was satisfied that I will be doing all my flying in the Kolb (no VOR, no carb heat, etc) then he did not feel the need to use a conventional aircraft. But when I did my power on stalls and retarded the throttle at the break, I had to be able to justify why I did it differently than would be done in a conventional aircraft. You have to know why you do what you do, no matter what you fly. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:41 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tuning the EIS for a 582 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob, Your probe should be near where the hot water exits the engine. Usually between the engine and the rad, but if the 582 has a place in a cylinder head for it, that would be fine. Denny ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tuning the EIS for a 582 > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > Richard, the temp climbs slowly. How does the placement of the probe affect the temps? Is that critical ? > > Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious > > Bob/Gang: > > I agree with Richard. If the temp is increasing > slowly it is probably not getting enough air in > the static, high power setting position. Should > do just fine flying when you have 60 or 70 mph > wind to assist the prop to cool the radiators. > > Normal placement of the temp sender for a "normal" > analog gauge is in the cyclinder head, according > to the diagram in the operators manual. I am > ignorant when it comes to EIS procedures. > > john h > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:57 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric Finish From: "Lawrence M. Rice" --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Lawrence M. Rice" Guys, I'm absolutely terrified of the "nasties" found in polyurethanes and don't have much more use for the solvents found in other systems (maybe all those years in the cancer lab I worked in some time ago ruined me). I heard of a guy in Western Pennsylvania that did his Mk. III with latex enamel. Have any of y'all heard anything about this? I heard about a year ago of a water base urethane finish that's supposed to be pretty safe to work with. Any experience with that? Thanks, Larry the MicroMong guy ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:53 PM PST US From: Ron Aerial Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb BFRs --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron Aerial A BFR is just a review. so a 172 review is good enough for a B-747. As soon as I am done with my M3X I will give BFRs to any Kolber that wants one in a Kolb. :-) CaptainRon CFI&I and CFiMei Also changed my email address =========================== --- Mike Pierzina wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" > > > Hey Guys, > Thanks for the Info. > I'm not going to spray the inside of the cage and > I'll probly > look for some fabric or carpet to protect it from UV > rays. > I took my First Bi - annual review today ( > Cessna 172 ) > I haven't flown for a year and 4 mos. and to top it > off the winds were a little HIGH and mild gusts. > I was a little rusty but I PASSED...Yippieeeeee > It's a good thing too, because it cost 192.50 > the price went up on the older Cessnas and it > jumped to 35.00per hour for the instructor. > it's a good thing I'm building my own plane. > > How do flight reviews work with the Kolb ? > Do I still have to take it in the Cessna ? > Gotta Fly... > Mike FSII,Color > coat soon > --- > Sometimes you just have to take the leap > and build your wings on the way down... > Gotta Fly... > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:32 PM PST US From: Ron Aerial Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric Finish --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ron Aerial My inclination is not to use anything but the tough urathane paints (as sold with the fabric package), but I am also interested in that. I am sure though that we must spray the UV protection for the cloth if we want any meaningfull life out of it. I guess the question would be "will latex stick to the UV coating"? and then just how good will it look. I painted the fiberglass wing tips on my Beech with Ace latex paint about 4 years ago. Amazingly enough its holding really good, it has started to fade a bit, but can't beat the price. ==================================== > Guys, > I'm absolutely terrified of the "nasties" found in > polyurethanes and > don't have much more use for the solvents found in > other systems (maybe > all those years in the cancer lab I worked in some > time ago ruined me). I > heard of a guy in Western Pennsylvania that did his > Mk. III with latex > enamel. Have any of y'all heard anything about this? > I heard about a year > ago of a water base urethane finish that's supposed > to be pretty safe to > work with. Any experience with that? > Thanks, > Larry the MicroMong guy > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:42 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb BFRs --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > As soon as I am done with my M3X I will give BFRs to > any Kolber that wants one in a Kolb. :-) > > CaptainRon CFI&I and CFiMei Ron/Gents/Ladies: Difficult to get a CFI to give a ride in a MK III, despite demonstrated reliability for more many, many years. A local CFI, who won't fly in my MK III, gives me mine in a ragged, modified J3 Cub used for banner towing. The last time I got one in the Cub, also the first time to flew a Cub from the rear seat, I never did see where I was going until I landed and got out of the critter. Was quite an experience. Much rather fly my MK III. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:17 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric Finish --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Take a look at the water based paints, Larry. I hear they're very good. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence M. Rice" Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric Finish > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Lawrence M. Rice" > > Guys, > I'm absolutely terrified of the "nasties" found in polyurethanes and > don't have much more use for the solvents found in other systems (maybe > all those years in the cancer lab I worked in some time ago ruined me). I > heard of a guy in Western Pennsylvania that did his Mk. III with latex > enamel. Have any of y'all heard anything about this? I heard about a year > ago of a water base urethane finish that's supposed to be pretty safe to > work with. Any experience with that? > Thanks, > Larry the MicroMong guy > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:37 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Latex paint on aircraft --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Here are 2 links to using ordinary latex for aircraft use. The second one has some good pictures of examples. http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/generic34.html http://www.modelairplanenews.com/how_to/latex1.asp Several years ago I painted a Hummer with latex with fair results. Here are the pros and cons: Pro : Cheap - very cheap. Sears Weatherbeater works good. Don't buy cheap latex, get the good stuff, it covers better. I used Weatherbeater black for a base coat and fabric filler, sprayed it on with a regular paint gun to fill the weave of the polyester fabric, and UV proof it all with one color. Two coats gave a good finish and used one gallon of thinned paint. Use the highest gloss or semi gloss you can get for a top coat, two coats of yellow covered a black underbase, it covers well. If you mess up and need to strip any of it off or feather an edge, use Goof-off, get it at Wal Mart. Of course latex is totally non toxic, won't orange peel or give a dusty textured too dry coat, it is really hard to screw it up. Easy to touch up and repair. Strip the latex off with Goof-Off, patch with Stits or Randolph glue in the normal fashion, recover with more latex. Light weight, takes very little paint to fill the fabric & get good color. Con: Not nearly as durable as Randolph paints, somewhat less durable than Stits. Hard to get a high gloss Dirty, greasy fingerprints show badly. (But 409 takes them off) Fabric Attachment: I used Rand-O-Bond fabric cement to attach the fabric to the airframe, it is easier to work with than Stits, ribstitched and taped in the normal fashion, using Randolph non-taughtening nitrate dope, then latex from there on. Would I do it again? I don't know, I have used Randolph, Stits, and el cheapo latex finishes, and it is sure the easiest. Maybe I won't have to... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:26 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Latex paint on aircraft --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike At 08:26 PM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Note - when I read what I had just sent, it maybe makes it look like I sprayed all the fabric with Randolph non-taughtening dope - not so. I only used it on the places where I had taped it or ribstitched it. Sprayed all the raw fabric (98% of the airplane fabric surface) with latex after I heat shrank it. Sorry. rp >Fabric Attachment: I used Rand-O-Bond fabric cement to attach the fabric to >the airframe, it is easier to work with than Stits, ribstitched and taped >in the normal fashion, using Randolph non-taughtening nitrate dope, then >latex from there on. > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:41 PM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: AIS --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" What about these wind meters/airspeed indicators for Kolbs? I was wondering about the possibility of mounting one with a bracket just outside of the windshield. Would they pass muster with the FAA? Would they be accurate near the windshield? http://www.benmeadows.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id2185&cat_prefix3WB http://www.benmeadows.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id2185&cat_prefix3WB I also saw this one: http://www.windandweather.com/store/Weather_Instruments___Wind_GaugesIN_MAXNOR?SessionIDX2xt6JLo&Args&Pos27 Might look a little dorky with a little aemometer on top of the gap seal or on the wing, but it could be remotely located. The only similar ones I can find for airplanes only go up to 60MPH, while these go to 90 and 200. Clay Stuart ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric Finish From: ul15rhb@juno.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com Larry, A friend of mine painted his Firestar with Latex exterior house paint and many years later it's doing just fine. Ralph Original Firestar painted with Polytone On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:15:43 -0400 "Lawrence M. Rice" writes: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Lawrence M. Rice" > > > Guys, > I'm absolutely terrified of the "nasties" found in polyurethanes > and > don't have much more use for the solvents found in other systems > (maybe > all those years in the cancer lab I worked in some time ago ruined > me). I > heard of a guy in Western Pennsylvania that did his Mk. III with > latex > enamel. Have any of y'all heard anything about this? I heard about a > year > ago of a water base urethane finish that's supposed to be pretty > safe to > work with. Any experience with that? > Thanks, > Larry the MicroMong guy ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:32 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Latex paint on aircraft --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 4/13/03 8:28:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rwpike@charter.net writes: > > Here are 2 links to using ordinary latex for aircraft use. The second one > has some good pictures of examples. > > http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/generic34.html > > http://www.modelairplanenews.com/how_to/latex1.asp > > Several years ago I painted a Hummer with latex with fair results. Here are > > the pros and cons: > Pro : > Cheap - very cheap. Sears Weatherbeater works good. Don't buy cheap latex, > get the good stuff, it covers better. I used Weatherbeater black for a base > > coat and fabric filler, sprayed it on with a regular paint gun to fill the > weave of the polyester fabric, and UV proof it all with one color. Two > coats gave a good finish and used one gallon of thinned paint. > Use the highest gloss or semi gloss you can get for a top coat, two coats > of yellow covered a black underbase, it covers well. > If you mess up and need to strip any of it off or feather an edge, use > Goof-off, get it at Wal Mart. > Of course latex is totally non toxic, won't orange peel or give a dusty > textured too dry coat, it is really hard to screw it up. > Easy to touch up and repair. Strip the latex off with Goof-Off, patch with > Stits or Randolph glue in the normal fashion, recover with more latex. > Light weight, takes very little paint to fill the fabric &get good color. > > Con: > Not nearly as durable as Randolph paints, somewhat less durable than Stits. > Hard to get a high gloss > Dirty, greasy fingerprints show badly. (But 409 takes them off) > > > Fabric Attachment: I used Rand-O-Bond fabric cement to attach the fabric to > > the airframe, it is easier to work with than Stits, ribstitched and taped > in the normal fashion, using Randolph non-taughtening nitrate dope, then > latex from there on. > > Would I do it again? I don't know, I have used Randolph, Stits, and el > cheapo latex finishes, and it is sure the easiest. Maybe I won't have to... > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Richard, I latex painted my Firestar with 3 colors of Coronado durothane latex and it stays on like a champ. The colors are good, the gloss is good, and the flexibility is very good. The problems have been that I put it on over polytone by stits and it pulled the polytone off the fabric over the cage area only...the flexible zipped part. This caused peeling there which can stick to the adjacent areas of the wing. I suspect I have too much flexer in my paint as a result of this test. GeorgeRandolph 447 Firestar driver from Akron O ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:49 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tuning the EIS for a 582 --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 4/13/03 9:53:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: > Normal placement of the temp sender for a "normal" > analog gauge is in the cyclinder head, according > to the diagram in the operators manual. I am > ignorant when it comes to EIS procedures. > > john h > > Placement of the probes in the exhaust manifold IS critical as (according to Dennis), there are pulse points of hot and cold. I have placed only one probe at the Y to pick up both cylinders (kinda a catchall el cheapo approach) and my temps read higher than most. My temp has gone to 1300 in the past with no known degradation of the internals. I still make every effort to keep it lower than 1200 deg F though, such as when the engine is unloaded. I have experienced a freezeup on an old Cayunna long ago and am familiar with the quickness of the overtemp dilemma on freezeup. I have never had a freezeup on my Rotax 447 in spite of the Y probe placement. GeorgeRandolph 447 Firestar driver from Akron, O