---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/19/03: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:32 AM - Re: registration (Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious) 2. 06:53 AM - Discovery Wings (Peter Volum) 3. 07:54 AM - Re: Discovery Wings (Larry Bourne) 4. 08:11 AM - Re: registration (CaptainRon) 5. 08:23 AM - Re: Discovery Wings (Peter Volum) 6. 08:30 AM - Re: Discovery Wings (Larry Bourne) 7. 08:49 AM - Re: Discovery Wings (John Hauck) 8. 10:47 AM - Exposed Threads (Mike Pierzina) 9. 11:36 AM - Securing floor plates (CaptainRon) 10. 12:00 PM - Re: Securing floor plates (Peter Volum) 11. 12:21 PM - Re: Exposed Threads (Ken Korenek) 12. 01:09 PM - Re: Exposed Threads (John Hauck) 13. 01:36 PM - Re: Exposed Threads (kuffel) 14. 01:44 PM - Re: Exposed Threads (Cy Galley) 15. 05:14 PM - Kolb Database (dama) 16. 05:35 PM - Re: registration () 17. 06:28 PM - Re: Kolb Database (Paul Petty) 18. 06:38 PM - Kolbing about (Fackler, Ken) 19. 06:38 PM - Re: Securing floor plates (CaptainRon) 20. 10:50 PM - Re: steel gear legs ...lift strut ends (steel fittings) (Ben Ransom) 21. 11:27 PM - my next project (Ben Ransom) 22. 11:55 PM - Re: registration (Larry Bourne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:17 AM PST US From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registration --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Denny, will the local FSDO actually do the inspection? Ours won't even THINK about touching it. They're too BUSY to mess with "little airplanes." So I have to pay $450 for a designated examiner to do the work. Bob Bob, Kathleen, and Kory BrociousTenacity Farm Campbellsburg, Kentucky From: Subject: Kolb-List: registration -- Kolb-List message posted by: Got a nice call from Oklahoma City today, the nice lady told me my registration was finally completed today and will be in the mail Monday. YEE HAA! Also called the local FSDO and should hear from them Tuesday about scheduling an airworthiness inspection. Good stuff, Denny Rowe Mk-3 N616DR Leechburg PA ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:07 AM PST US From: "Peter Volum" Subject: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" In case any of you are interested. EAA/NAFI-Produced 'Learning To Fly' Premieres April 28 on Discovery Wings Beginning April 28, television viewers can discover the joy and accomplishment of becoming a pilot through the new "Learning to Fly" series produced for the Discovery Wings Channel by the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) and its affiliate, the National Association of Flight Instructors (NAFI). The 13-part series, produced by EAA Television, is the first program dedicated to showcasing the steps in earning a pilot's license. Each half-hour episode follows the challenges and achievements of one student through each level of training with her flight instructor. The series also shows viewers what is involved in flight training and how they can also take their first steps toward reaching their personal dreams of flight Read more: http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/030418_learntofly.html ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:17 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I'd love to watch it, but don't have Discovery Wings channel on DirecTV. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Volum" Subject: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" > > In case any of you are interested. > > EAA/NAFI-Produced 'Learning To Fly' Premieres April 28 on Discovery > Wings > > > > Beginning April 28, television viewers can discover the joy and > accomplishment of becoming a pilot through the new "Learning to Fly" > series produced for the Discovery Wings Channel by the Experimental > Aircraft Association (EAA) and its affiliate, the National Association > of Flight Instructors (NAFI). The 13-part series, produced by EAA > Television, is the first program dedicated to showcasing the steps in > earning a pilot's license. Each half-hour episode follows the challenges > and achievements of one student through each level of training with her > flight instructor. The series also shows viewers what is involved in > flight training and how they can also take their first steps toward > reaching their personal dreams of flight > > > Read more: > http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/030418_learntofly.html > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:13 AM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registration --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon The inspection process was a lot easier than getting my registration out of OKC... Ken ================= Congrats Private enterprise and the bureaucracy juxtaposed! what better proof does one need to agree that "The best government is the least government" :-) Do not archive ===== Building M3X Southern Arizona http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:08 AM PST US From: "Peter Volum" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" DTV does carry it Lar. It's a channel well worth having. When I added it to my programming package, it only required a minor change and minimal extra cost. Give them a call. You won't regret it (though your building will suffer). Peter. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I'd love to watch it, but don't have Discovery Wings channel on DirecTV. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Volum" Subject: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" > > In case any of you are interested. > > EAA/NAFI-Produced 'Learning To Fly' Premieres April 28 on Discovery > Wings > > > > Beginning April 28, television viewers can discover the joy and > accomplishment of becoming a pilot through the new "Learning to Fly" > series produced for the Discovery Wings Channel by the Experimental > Aircraft Association (EAA) and its affiliate, the National Association > of Flight Instructors (NAFI). The 13-part series, produced by EAA > Television, is the first program dedicated to showcasing the steps in > earning a pilot's license. Each half-hour episode follows the challenges > and achievements of one student through each level of training with her > flight instructor. The series also shows viewers what is involved in > flight training and how they can also take their first steps toward > reaching their personal dreams of flight > > > Read more: > http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/030418_learntofly.html > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:18 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Harrrr...............my 'building' has suffered plenty, already. :-) I'll call them. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Volum" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" > > DTV does carry it Lar. It's a channel well worth having. When I added > it to my programming package, it only required a minor change and > minimal extra cost. > > Give them a call. You won't regret it (though your building will > suffer). > > Peter. > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bourne ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:32 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Discovery Wings --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > I'd love to watch it, but don't have Discovery Wings channel on DirecTV. > Lar. Hey Buddy/Gang: You got to turn loose of some of that cash to get Wings DC. I have Direct TV and pay $4.00 a month to have Wings hooked up. Sometimes I wonder if it is worth it because they replay most of the programs over and over. But when I good show comes on, then it is worth the four bucks. I especially like some of the VN era aviation documentaries, especially those that feature Army aviation and my old bird the AH-1G. Have one more day of residential maintenance (grass, weed, trash, etc.) and then to rebuild the vert stab. Time is getting short for departure to Monument Valley. I am looking forward to a good flight out, meeting up with some new faces and renewing friendship with "old" faces. Hope everybody has a safe trip out, while we are there, and back home. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:44 AM PST US From: "Mike Pierzina" Subject: Kolb-List: Exposed Threads --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" Hey Guys, What's the regulation on exposed threads...( 3 ??? ) I'll be assembling soon, it would be nice to get it right the first time.... Gotta Fly... Mike in MN FSII-Color Coat stage SNIP>>>>>> Just had my inspection done 2 weeks ago and it was a non event. The plane was properly prepared with all the proper lockwire, placards, exposed threads, etc and all my paperwork was in order. The inspection process was a lot easier than getting my registration out of OKC... --- Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down... Gotta Fly... Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:32 AM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Kolb-List: Securing floor plates --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Has anyone installed and fastened their floor plates without using rivets into the tubing? Any input on this would be appreciated. I kinda don't like the idea of drilling holes into the cage. Even though it probably won't weaken the cage to any appreciable degree. I guess some observations about what happened to cages post crush, and if rivet holes contributed to cage collapse propagation. Would be all I need. :-) ===== Building M3X Southern Arizona http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:19 PM PST US From: "Peter Volum" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Securing floor plates --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Peter Volum" Mine were riveted. No problems. I suggest you go with aluminum rivets though, as you will have to drill them out every now and then. Aluminum is strong enough to do the job, yet much easier to drill out. P. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CaptainRon Subject: Kolb-List: Securing floor plates --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Has anyone installed and fastened their floor plates without using rivets into the tubing? Any input on this would be appreciated. I kinda don't like the idea of drilling holes into the cage. Even though it probably won't weaken the cage to any appreciable degree. I guess some observations about what happened to cages post crush, and if rivet holes contributed to cage collapse propagation. Would be all I need. :-) ===== Building M3X Southern Arizona http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:32 PM PST US From: Ken Korenek Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exposed Threads --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ken Korenek Mike Pierzina wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" > > Hey Guys, > What's the regulation on exposed threads...( 3 ??? ) Aircraft industry standards require that 3 threads show. My DAR only looked to see that at least one thread was showing. Ken -- Do Not Archive ********************* Ken W. Korenek 4906 Oak Springs Drive Arlington, Texas 76016 817-572-6832 voice 817-572-6842 fax 817-657-6500 cell 817-483-8054 home ken-foi@attbi.com Kolb FireStar II, "My Mistress" N104KK Rotax 503, Oil Injected 3 Blade Powerfin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image019.jpg Six Chuter SR7-XL "Red Baron" Powered Parachute Rotax 582, Oil Injected 3 Blade PowerFin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image021.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:15 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exposed Threads --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Aircraft industry standards require that 3 threads show. My DAR only looked to > see that at least one thread was showing. > > Ken Ken/Gang: The following is from AC 43-13: AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES - AIRCRAFT INSPECTION AND REPAIR September 8, 1998 (With Change 1 Incorporated) f. Fiber or nylon locknuts are constructed with an unthreaded fiber or nylon locking insert held securely in place. The fiber or nylon insert provides the locking action because it has a smaller diameter than the nut. Fiber or nylon self-locking nuts are not installed in areas where temperatures exceed 250 F. After the nut has been tightened, make sure the bolt or stud has at least one thread showing past the nut. DO NOT reuse a fiber or nylon locknut, if the nut cannot meet the minimum prevailing torque values. AC 43.13 has the answers right on the WWW: http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/43-13/ john h ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:26 PM PST US From: kuffel Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exposed Threads --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel Ken, <> Actually the standard is no less than 1 and no more than 3 threads. If more than 3 than add up to two more washers, 3 total, under the nut. If still too many threads then go to the next shorter bolt length. Even this standard is not absolute. Its basis is to have no more than 1 and 1/2 threads inside the fitting being bolted so the shear loads are taken by the shank not the threads. Some of the newer nuts are less thick than the standard and *should* have more than 3 threads showing to have the proper shank length. But if you use these high performance nuts be prepared to prove this to your DAR. The EAA has excellent publications which cover this and the Tony Bingelis books are an even better source of well explained workmanship standards. The above is covered in his "Sportplane Construction Techniques" pages 19-28. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:12 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exposed Threads --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I think if you have 3 or more threads showing, you need to add another washer to keep the nut from bottoming. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org Always looking for articles for the Experimenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exposed Threads > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > Aircraft industry standards require that 3 threads show. My DAR only looked to > > see that at least one thread was showing. > > > > Ken > > Ken/Gang: > > The following is from AC 43-13: > > AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND > PRACTICES - AIRCRAFT INSPECTION AND REPAIR > September 8, 1998 > (With Change 1 Incorporated) > > f. Fiber or nylon locknuts are constructed with an > unthreaded fiber or nylon locking insert held > securely in place. The fiber or nylon insert > provides the locking action because it has a > smaller diameter than the nut. Fiber or nylon > self-locking nuts are not installed in areas where > temperatures exceed 250 F. After the nut has > been tightened, make sure the bolt or stud has at > least one thread showing past the nut. DO NOT > reuse a fiber or nylon locknut, if the nut cannot > meet the minimum prevailing torque values. > > AC 43.13 has the answers right on the WWW: > > http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/43-13/ > > john h > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:17 PM PST US From: "dama" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Database --> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" It's been a while since I advertised so here goes...Visit... http://www.springeraviation.net/ for Kolb builders and flyers. Send updates if you wish also (like a motor swap from Rotax to Harley Davidson for example:) Kip ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:13 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registration --> Kolb-List message posted by: ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registration > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" > > > Denny, will the local FSDO actually do the inspection? Ours won't even THINK about touching it. They're too BUSY to mess with "little airplanes." So I have to pay $450 for a designated examiner to do the work. > Bob > > Yea, The Allegheny county FSDO says they can do it, no problem. I may have a few week wait so Lar may still beat me to the punch, but I am just happy to be past the registration part. Denny > > > > From: > To: "kolblist" > Subject: Kolb-List: registration > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:45:36 -0400 > > -- Kolb-List message posted by: > > Got a nice call from Oklahoma City today, the nice lady told me my registration was finally completed today and will be in the mail Monday. > YEE HAA! > Also called the local FSDO and should hear from them Tuesday about scheduling an airworthiness inspection. > Good stuff, > > Denny Rowe Mk-3 N616DR Leechburg PA > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:02 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Database --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Hi Kip.. Check out www.c-gate.net/ppetty - Original Message ----- From: "dama" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Database > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" > > It's been a while since I advertised so here goes...Visit... > http://www.springeraviation.net/ > for Kolb builders and flyers. Send updates if you wish also (like a motor swap from Rotax to Harley Davidson for example:) > Kip > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:17 PM PST US From: "Fackler, Ken" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolbing about --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" Despite weather that can best be described as "funky," I managed 3.5 hours of Kolb time today. Whoooo hooo. That sure does feel good! Do Not Archive -Ken Fackler Mark II / 503 Rochester MI ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:31 PM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Securing floor plates --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon I guess I'll go with that. How about small self tapping screws? Has anyone tried that? I also have to make a decision about fuel tanks. I had one lister's whose email I saved as he builds alum tanks. However after my recent computer meltdown all my contacts were erased. So if you are still on the list please email me your address again. I remember a discussion a while ago about off the shelve fuel tanks, has anyone actually installed one of those marine plastic tanks. And my last question has to do with seats. Where can I get some real seats at a reasonable price that can go into a Kolb? thanks ======================== I suggest you go with aluminum rivets though, as you will have to drill them out every now and then. Aluminum is strong enough to do the job, yet much easier to drill out. ===== Building M3X Southern Arizona http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:31 PM PST US From: Ben Ransom Subject: Re: Kolb-List: steel gear legs ...lift strut ends (steel fittings) --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom John, The heat treating place I used told me that some alloys might make it up to 46, 48, and others wouldn't. I wonder if I haven't been paying enf attention to what alloy to start with? I have just ordered 4130 from Aircraft Spruce and thought I need not make things more complicated than that. AT least the guy was honest in telling me it topped out at 42, and that after getting my ok for a second run. Either he is correct about variations in alloy or they don't know what they're doing. Dang, something else to wonder about. -Ben > > Ben R/Gang: > > I'll help you out a little. > > > Heat treaters said they could get these to no more than 42 > > Rockwell whereas I roughly recall JH recommended going to 46. > > Your heat treater is BS'ing you. I have used > three different heat treaters over the years. One > in Orlando, FL, one in Birmingham, AL, and my > current heat treater in Anniston, AL. All have > heat treated my gear legs and tail wheel struts to > 48 RC. > > I used > > 1.125 x .095 tubing, and I think JH had said his first design on > his FS > > of 1.00x.090 failed. > > Initially, I used 1.00 X .090 and 42 RC. Too soft > and bent. Also not enough "beef". > > After the first set I used 1.125 X .120 hardened > to 48 RC. I still have the set of legs from my > Firestar. Good as the day I put them on the > airplane. > > I use the same material and 48 RC for my MK III > legs. The main difference is the MK III legs on > my Brother Jim's main gear leg sockets are only > 24" long. The Firestar legs were 35.5" long, > shoved all the way up the socket. This put the FS > in a perfect 3 pt stance. > > After failure of a seperate gear leg/axle socket > in BC a couple years ago, I went with Bro Jim's > advice and welded the axle socket to the gear > leg. That way both socket and leg are heat > treated equally. A little more difficult to align > the main gear, but a Hell of a lot more reliable. > > john h > > PS: If anyone wants the heat treaters info in > Anniston, let me know and I will post to the Kolb > List. This firm is based in Jacksonville, FL, and > have plants in Anniston and another location I can > not remember at this time. > > > > > > > > ===== http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:31 PM PST US From: Ben Ransom Subject: Kolb-List: my next project --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom Hi all, George alluded to the 'big-footed' Murphy pic on my web page, and I thought I might as well fess up that as soon as I get airborne again in the FS I will start in on a Murphy Rebel. It's the bush plane thing -- the Kolb got me hooked and, after getting my private ticket I just found the opportunity to get a bigger bush plane too hard to resist. I bought someone else's barely started project in Feb. The Murphy Rebel, like the Kolb, is a solid design, very strong airplane, responsive although stiffer control feel, and very capable as a bush plane. My FS will keep me happy with good flying time in the long road ahead in this next project. -Ben ===== http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:47 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registration --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Punch ?? Punch ?? I think ol' Lar's getting punch-ey. Finicky little details, details, B.S.................seems like it's un-ending. I'm starting to think I'm 99.5% done; 30% to go. Arrrrrrggghh ! ! ! Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registration > --> Kolb-List message posted by: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registration > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" > > > > > > > Denny, will the local FSDO actually do the inspection? Ours won't even > THINK about touching it. They're too BUSY to mess with "little airplanes." > So I have to pay $450 for a designated examiner to do the work. > > Bob > > > > Yea, > The Allegheny county FSDO says they can do it, no problem. I may have a few > week wait so Lar may still beat me to the punch, but I am just happy to be > past the registration part. > Denny > > > > > > > > > > From: > > To: "kolblist" > > Subject: Kolb-List: registration > > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:45:36 -0400 > > > > -- Kolb-List message posted by: > > > > Got a nice call from Oklahoma City today, the nice lady told me my > registration was finally completed today and will be in the mail Monday. > > YEE HAA! > > Also called the local FSDO and should hear from them Tuesday about > scheduling an airworthiness inspection. > > Good stuff, > > > > Denny Rowe Mk-3 N616DR Leechburg PA > > > > > >