Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids (Dave Rains)
2. 07:31 AM - Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga ()
3. 07:55 AM - Re: Victor 1+ - First Short Cross Country (Jack & Louise Hart)
4. 08:03 AM - Re: copper plus brazing (Richard Pike)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga (Richard Pike)
6. 08:43 AM - Re: copper plus brazing (John Hauck)
7. 09:08 AM - Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga (CaptainRon)
8. 09:09 AM - MV (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
9. 10:33 AM - Re: MV (CaptainRon)
10. 10:47 AM - Re: MV (John Hauck)
11. 10:54 AM - Re: MV (John Hauck)
12. 11:07 AM - Re: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids (kuffel)
13. 02:53 PM - Re: Victor 1+ - First Short Cross Country (johnjung@compusenior.com)
14. 03:06 PM - Re: MV (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
15. 04:07 PM - Re: MV (Dave Rains)
16. 04:56 PM - Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga ()
17. 05:15 PM - Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga (John Hauck)
18. 06:06 PM - Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga (Kirk Smith)
19. 07:09 PM - Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga (John Cooley)
20. 07:14 PM - Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga ()
21. 07:47 PM - Re: MV (CaptainRon)
22. 08:07 PM - Re: MV (CaptainRon)
23. 08:24 PM - Re: NOT AGAIN!!! HVLP VS. PRESSURE POT (Gary robert voigt)
24. 08:26 PM - Re: MV (Larry Bourne)
25. 08:34 PM - Re: Victor 1+ - First Short Cross Country (Jack & Louise Hart)
26. 08:38 PM - Re: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids (Larry Bourne)
27. 08:39 PM - Sectionals (John Hauck)
28. 08:52 PM - Re: MV (Larry Bourne)
29. 08:59 PM - Re: Sectionals (Larry Bourne)
30. 09:00 PM - Re: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Monument Valley & Essential Fluids |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
You should bring enough so we can all take some home. I recommend Sam Adams.
Dave.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: kuffel [SMTP:kuffel@cyberport.net]
Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids
--> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <kuffel@cyberport.net>
Dave et al:
Will be flying down to MV on Sunday the 18th in our homebuild
taildragger. Wife Betty and I will be staying at the Lodge but plan to
spend a lot of time at the airstrip/camp ground just relaxing and hangar
flying.
Called Gouldings about alcohol laws. None available for sale but it is
ok to bring our own. Should I bring one, two or three cases of beer?
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
Message 2
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| Subject: | Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Thanks to Lar,Jack, Richard,and John for the replies to my query.
Looks like something I can still add in.
Was greeted as I came in the door from work this morning by a call from the gent
who will be conducting my airworthiness inspection, got a tentative date of
5-23 at 10:00 AM for my inspection.
In the course of our conversation I asked him if he felt the rudder stop would
be a necessary thing, and he said no, as he didn't feel I would ever reach full
rudder deflection in flight, he felt the stop would be more for paint protection
while tied down in high wind and that he would leave it to my discretion
weather to install the stops or not.
What do you all say? Would you or wouldn't you?
Denny
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Victor 1+ - First Short Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 09:41 PM 4/30/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
>
>Jack,
>Do you attribute the difference in speed to a difference in HP or less
>efficient or mismatched prop?
>jerb
>
>snip....
>>Ran some numbers to see how the Victor 1+ compared with the Rotax 447 over
>>this same flight path. I had good data for nine flights with the Rotax
>>447. The average fuel burn was 5.7 gallons (3.1 gph). Yesterday, the
>>Victor 1+ burned 4.7 gallons (2.1 gph). In all fairness to the Rotax 447,
>>the average flight ground speed was 58 mph and yesterday it was 48 mph.
>>
Jerb,
One of the nice things about an IVO is that one does not have to have a protractor
or read a pitch setting for propeller adjustment. But the bad thing is one
does not know the actual propeller pitch. And I have not been keeping good
information about propeller settings so I can not compare from this propeller
to the propeller used on the Rotax 447. But I have measured the current propeller
tip setting and it is 9 degrees. In previous flights, usually test flights
at pattern altitude, it gave 50 and 55 mphi at engine speeds of 4,500 and
5,000 rpm. On this flight I was getting 50 mphi at 2,000 to 2500 feet agl at
5,000 rpm.
At 100% propeller efficiency and set at 9 degrees, the tip would advance at 56.5
and 62.8 mph at 50 and 55 mphi. This would give a FireFly and propeller system
efficiency of 88%. On the flight to Painton at altitude, the cruise speed
was 50 mphi at 5,000 rpm, and this computes out to a propeller and system efficiency
of 80%.
In their data, Simonini used a 162 cm (~64 inch) diameter propeller with a 114
cm (~45 inch) lead or a pitch of 12.6 degrees with the same reduction unit. Using
their lead/pitch and computing tip advance speed, the number would come out
to be 78.8 mph. Assuming my Painton flight propeller and system efficiency
of 80%, one could expect a cruise speed of 63.5 mph at 5,000 engine rpm.
Why am I running a 72 inch propeller? I called IVO to order a shorter propeller
blades. I like to use their used/reconditioned blades to save a few dollars.
The only blades they had were the 72 inch blades and they were red. They explained
that I could cut them. I have put them on and they look nice. But it
appears to me that outer section tip drag is eating up too much torque, and
I must cut them.
Currently I am working on adding fairings to the struts and adding a little boat
tail to the rear of the fuselage. I want to see how much these things will
increase FireFly four gallon endurance and speed at 5,000 rpm. When that is done,
I will be cutting the propeller.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: copper plus brazing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Thanks for the reply. Sometimes it is good to make us dig out the books and
see if we really know what we think we know...
My copy of AC43-13 dated 1968 paragraph 43 says "Brazing may be used for
repairs to primary aircraft structures only if brazing was originally
approved for the particular application. Brazing is not approved for repair
of welds in steel structures due to lower strength of the brazed joint as
compared to welded joints Brazing may be used in the repair of secondary
structures." It goes on to discuss copper brazing and the potential for
cracks and concludes "...copper brazing in any other than appropriately
controlled conditions is not recommended."
Steve Wittman was very knowledgeable about many things. If only he had read
the Stits manual...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 04:35 PM 4/30/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>I thought the comment below was a great rational for not brazing structural
>items on an airplane... But then I got to thinking. I know that there is
>ordinary low strength braze and then there is braze with very high
>structural strength. More strength than even 1430.
>
>For example, how many of you use a table saw with carbide blades. As far I
>know, all those carbide teeth are brazed on and you think nothing of
>standing in line with the blade as you saw wood or even aluminum. The
>centrifugal forces are trying to throw the sharp tips at you with a very
>high force... But we never even give it a second thought.
>
>Steve Wittman brazed up the tail feathers of his Tailwinds without a
>problem. The Tailwind builders continue to build them in that manner.
>
>Rickard Finch says that it is the copper than gets between the steel
>particles that makes brazed 4130 joint crack on cooling. Yet, bicycle frames
>are routinely brazed together.
>
>If you pick your brazing rod so it has no copper, you might be amazed at the
>strength. I have better luck brazing band saw blades with a scarfed overlap
>joint than a welded butt joint. Remember the joint has to be designed
>correctly for the process and that brazing is not a good gap filler.
>
>Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
>Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
>www.bellanca-championclub.com
>Actively supporting Aeroncas
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: copper plus brazing
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
> >
> > Think in terms of removing the AN bolts from your Kolb and replacing them
> > with brass ones from Lowes - scary huh? You would -as it were- recoil in
> > horror. Brazing fits into the same category. Brazing is absolutely,
> > positively unacceptable for any structural anything in aircraft. OK for
> > secondary, non load bearing structures like cup holders, gps mounts,
>relief
> > tubes, etc.
> >
> > Richard Pike
> > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> >
> >
> > At 04:07 AM 4/24/03 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Vincehallam@aol.com
> > >
> > >Hi
> > > Is brazing a bad idea for main frame steel joints
> > > ,I might find it easier than welding
> > > Vnz
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I think he is all wet, but I can't find the FAA resources to back it up.
Somewhere I remember reading an article from a respected "name" in the
aircraft industry (I think it was Molt Taylor, but not sure) who discussed
the requirement to "overload" your control system to way above what it
would normally take without the controls deflecting beyond a certain point.
He is absolutely correct.
My experience: back in the mid 90's, I was doing touch and goes in my J-6
(taildragger) and the left main wheel brake locked up during the takeoff
portion. As the airplane started to come around to the left, (at about 45
mph) I was on the right rudder so hard that during the subsequent rebuild I
discovered that I had twisted the rudder pedal mechanism (dual setup) about
30 degrees out of line by standing on it so hard. Now visualize what that
would have done without rudder stops - the rudder would have been into the
side of the elevator and I would have jammed the elevator solid at where
ever it was at when things began to get exciting.
That is why you need a rudder stop - if things get real exciting during a
crosswind takeoff or landing, you will generate enough adrenaline in .2
seconds to nail that rudder right through the end corner of your elevator
and then you will get to enjoy even more adrenaline...
Put the stops on.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:43 AM 5/1/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>Thanks to Lar,Jack, Richard,and John for the replies to my query.
>Looks like something I can still add in.
>Was greeted as I came in the door from work this morning by a call from
>the gent who will be conducting my airworthiness inspection, got a
>tentative date of 5-23 at 10:00 AM for my inspection.
>In the course of our conversation I asked him if he felt the rudder stop
>would be a necessary thing, and he said no, as he didn't feel I would ever
>reach full rudder deflection in flight, he felt the stop would be more for
>paint protection while tied down in high wind and that he would leave it
>to my discretion weather to install the stops or not.
>What do you all say? Would you or wouldn't you?
>Denny
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: copper plus brazing |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Steve Wittman was very knowledgeable about many things. If only he had read
> the Stits manual...
>
> Richard Pike
Richard/Gang:
Amen!
It is the one little mistake that will get us.
The one little mistake always happens when we
least expect it.
Fly the airplane until you finish crashing.
Never give up. There is a chance you may be able
to save yourself (first) and the airplane
(second).
BTW: Heres an 8 Sep 02, version of AC43.13-1B:
http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/43-13/
john h
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
In my M3X rudder travel is limited by the horn and it
does not make contact with the elevators but comes
real close. I will install a little tab to keep some
assured clearence. In a stall or some other slow
low-load flight situations you may easily be able to
make contact between the surfaces. I would strongly
suggest that you do make sure that there is never
contact between those surfaces at any flight/ground
movements.
=========================
--- rowedl@highstream.net wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by:
> <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> Thanks to Lar,Jack, Richard,and John for the replies
> to my query.
> Looks like something I can still add in.
> Was greeted as I came in the door from work this
> morning by a call from the gent who will be
> conducting my airworthiness inspection, got a
> tentative date of 5-23 at 10:00 AM for my
> inspection.
> In the course of our conversation I asked him if he
> felt the rudder stop would be a necessary thing, and
> he said no, as he didn't feel I would ever reach
> full rudder deflection in flight, he felt the stop
> would be more for paint protection while tied down
> in high wind and that he would leave it to my
> discretion weather to install the stops or not.
> What do you all say? Would you or wouldn't you?
> Denny
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Guys,
I have reservations at the MV campground and will be arriving with a motorhome
and trailer on the 18th. George Thompson has talked about going up with me,
but he is out of town for a few weeks and I'm not sure whether or not he is
still planning to go. We (the Black Mesa Flyers) are having a fly-in up here
in Paulden (AZ) on the 17th and plan to leave for MV on Sunday the 18th. Is
anyone planning to come to our fly-in? I have room to bring extra "stuff" to
MV (chairs, etc.), any ideas on what would be good for the group (10 cases of
Sam Adams is NOT an acceptable answer).
AzDave
Do Not Archive
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
any ideas
on what would be good for the group (10 cases of Sam
Adams is NOT an
acceptable answer).
AzDave
======================
Geez Dave you drive a real hard bargain,, so ok,,
bring 11 cases.
I may????? make MV with the Beech if I am done with
installing the prop and Gov' and finished my 500 hr
inspection on the mags, and whatever else I get into
while the prop and gov' are being OH.
It will be interesting to meet everybody.
Up to my eyeballs in airplane work here.
do not archive
=====
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
We (the Black Mesa Flyers) are having a fly-in
up here in Paulden (AZ) on the 17th and plan to
leave for MV on Sunday the 18th. Is anyone
planning to come to our fly-in? I have room to
bring extra "stuff" to MV (chairs, etc.), any
ideas on what would be good for the group (10
cases of Sam Adams is NOT an acceptable answer).
> AzDave
AZDave/Gang:
Don't know about the flyin. How far is it as the
crow flies from Gouldings to Paulden? There's a
buncha big ole hard pointy mountains between the
two locations. Bet it is purty though.
Yes, please bring extra chairs. All I will have
with me, if I don't forget it, is a scrawny little
three legged folding camp stool. A nice folding
camp chair would be really nice.
Also will need a couple 5 gal gas cans to refuel,
if we can not taxi to the gas pump at Gouldings.
john h
BTW: Trim tape is on the vertical stabilizer. A
couple brush coats of Polybrush on the trim tapes
and I am ready to shoot a couple coats on the
whole thing. Might still get that Polyspray on
there tonight. If not, will get it first thing in
the morning. Covering job going well, so
far......
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> It will be interesting to meet everybody.
> Up to my eyeballs in airplane work here.
> Building M3X
> Southern Arizona
Ron/Gang:
If you really wanted to see us, even if you did
not get the Beech ready, you would hitch hike or
borrow the wife's car.............
My buddy Jim Hanke, Steen Skybolt, is in the
process of installing a flow meter and some other
stuff. If he gets ready he plans to fly up also.
If he doesn't make it, I may come back through
Sierra Vista on the way back to Abalama..........
If I am in that part of the country, I will
probably come through there anyhow. One of the
places I have not been, yet.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <kuffel@cyberport.net>
John, Lar, et al,
<<<Should I bring one, two or three cases of beer? <That will last me
about three days.">>>
Sorry, wasn't clear. Meant one, two or three cases per day.
<<my drink of choice these days is Diet Pepsi. Big Lar is on the same
"wagon">>
Had already planned to bring some Diet (ugh) Pepsi for Big Lar. Will
double the order to include you. Anyone for regular 7-Up? Suspect it
is better to have our own supply rather than depend on the store being
near, open, etc.
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Victor 1+ - First Short Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "johnjung@compusenior.com" <johnjung@compusenior.com>
Jack and Group,
I would like to suggest that the speed difference is too much to make a
decent comparison. I think that 2.1 gph should be achiveable with a 447.
A few years ago I flew 60 miles at 45 mph with my 503 powered Firestar
and got 2.25 gph. If a 503 can get that low at almost the same speed,
then a 447 should be able to. I don't know if FireFly's need more fuel
than Firestars, though.
John Jung
Jack Hart wrote:
Ran some numbers to see how the Victor 1+ compared with the Rotax 447 over this
same flight path. I had good data for nine flights with the Rotax 447. The
average fuel burn was 5.7 gallons (3.1 gph). Yesterday, the Victor 1+ burned
4.7 gallons (2.1 gph). In all fairness to the Rotax 447, the average flight ground
speed was 58 mph and yesterday it was 48 mph.
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
John,
I dunno exactly where Gouldings is on the map, but from Paulden to the
intersection of 163 and the Utah state line looks to be a tad under 200
miles. Yes, there are some tall pointy things on the way. Flagstaff itself
is at 7,000' and many mountains go up from there. Sorry, but I haven't
spent much time in that area so can't "expert" on it. I do know that once
you get past Flag it levels out. Can do on the chairs and gas cans. Also
will have a refrigerator to keep 'essentials' in (ok, that includes Sam
Adams).
AzDave
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> We (the Black Mesa Flyers) are having a fly-in
> up here in Paulden (AZ) on the 17th and plan to
> leave for MV on Sunday the 18th. Is anyone
> planning to come to our fly-in? I have room to
> bring extra "stuff" to MV (chairs, etc.), any
> ideas on what would be good for the group (10
> cases of Sam Adams is NOT an acceptable answer).
> > AzDave
>
> AZDave/Gang:
>
> Don't know about the flyin. How far is it as the
> crow flies from Gouldings to Paulden? There's a
> buncha big ole hard pointy mountains between the
> two locations. Bet it is purty though.
>
> Yes, please bring extra chairs. All I will have
> with me, if I don't forget it, is a scrawny little
> three legged folding camp stool. A nice folding
> camp chair would be really nice.
>
> Also will need a couple 5 gal gas cans to refuel,
> if we can not taxi to the gas pump at Gouldings.
>
> john h
>
> BTW: Trim tape is on the vertical stabilizer. A
> couple brush coats of Polybrush on the trim tapes
> and I am ready to shoot a couple coats on the
> whole thing. Might still get that Polyspray on
> there tonight. If not, will get it first thing in
> the morning. Covering job going well, so
> far......
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
I will be bringing a quantity of unobtainable brew, smuggled in on a
foreign airline. Still in the military loop you know?
So get to work on the Beech. I know about the busy hanger stuff, just
helped on the restoration and overhaul of a Citabria. Prop and governor is
only a two hour job. Add a few more for the mags, you should have it done
this weekend. Kidding aside, who's doing the prop/governor overhaul?
Going to be doing a major on my C175 this fall and haven't decided if I
want to send them off, or have the work done locally. Sure didn't have
this much expense with my FireStar. Starting to look real close at
building a Kolbra. Hear we go again......
Regards,
Dave Rains
El Paso's preeminent Ultralight Pilot, alpha male, and
sexual dynamo!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: CaptainRon [SMTP:aerialron@yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
any ideas
on what would be good for the group (10 cases of Sam
Adams is NOT an
acceptable answer).
AzDave
======================
Geez Dave you drive a real hard bargain,, so ok,,
bring 11 cases.
I may????? make MV with the Beech if I am done with
installing the prop and Gov' and finished my 500 hr
inspection on the mags, and whatever else I get into
while the prop and gov' are being OH.
It will be interesting to meet everybody.
Up to my eyeballs in airplane work here.
do not archive
=====
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Thanks Richard, You convinced me.
I'll definitly put the stops on. Now I am wondering why my kit didn't have
them back in 92.
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> I think he is all wet, but I can't find the FAA resources to back it up.
>
> Somewhere I remember reading an article from a respected "name" in the
> aircraft industry (I think it was Molt Taylor, but not sure) who discussed
> the requirement to "overload" your control system to way above what it
> would normally take without the controls deflecting beyond a certain
point.
> He is absolutely correct.
>
> My experience: back in the mid 90's, I was doing touch and goes in my J-6
> (taildragger) and the left main wheel brake locked up during the takeoff
> portion. As the airplane started to come around to the left, (at about 45
> mph) I was on the right rudder so hard that during the subsequent rebuild
I
> discovered that I had twisted the rudder pedal mechanism (dual setup)
about
> 30 degrees out of line by standing on it so hard. Now visualize what that
> would have done without rudder stops - the rudder would have been into the
> side of the elevator and I would have jammed the elevator solid at where
> ever it was at when things began to get exciting.
>
> That is why you need a rudder stop - if things get real exciting during a
> crosswind takeoff or landing, you will generate enough adrenaline in .2
> seconds to nail that rudder right through the end corner of your elevator
> and then you will get to enjoy even more adrenaline...
>
> Put the stops on.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> At 10:43 AM 5/1/03 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
> >
> >Thanks to Lar,Jack, Richard,and John for the replies to my query.
> >Looks like something I can still add in.
> >Was greeted as I came in the door from work this morning by a call from
> >the gent who will be conducting my airworthiness inspection, got a
> >tentative date of 5-23 at 10:00 AM for my inspection.
> >In the course of our conversation I asked him if he felt the rudder stop
> >would be a necessary thing, and he said no, as he didn't feel I would
ever
> >reach full rudder deflection in flight, he felt the stop would be more
for
> >paint protection while tied down in high wind and that he would leave it
> >to my discretion weather to install the stops or not.
> >What do you all say? Would you or wouldn't you?
> >Denny
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I'll definitly put the stops on. Now I am wondering why my kit didn't have
> them back in 92.
> Denny
Denny/Gang:
Doubt very seriously they were in the kits back
then. They weren't in mine in Feb 1991, SN:
M3-011.
john h
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
I'll definitly put the stops on. Now I am wondering why my kit didn't have
> > them back in 92.
> > Denny
>
> Denny/Gang:
>
> Doubt very seriously they were in the kits back
> then. They weren't in mine in Feb 1991, SN:
> M3-011.
Not on mine either in 93...... M3-283
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
Ok, I'll put in my info. 1994 model FS II, cage is stamped with number 1162,
if I remember correctly, and the kit did come with the rudder stop just like
the one John H. posted a picture of.
Later,
John Cooley
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
> I'll definitly put the stops on. Now I am wondering why my kit didn't have
> > > them back in 92.
> > > Denny
> >
> > Denny/Gang:
> >
> > Doubt very seriously they were in the kits back
> > then. They weren't in mine in Feb 1991, SN:
> > M3-011.
>
> Not on mine either in 93...... M3-283
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
John,
My kit was #90 so it must have been the same as yours.
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk-3 rudder stops? The continuing saga
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > I'll definitly put the stops on. Now I am wondering why my kit didn't
have
> > them back in 92.
> > Denny
>
> Denny/Gang:
>
> Doubt very seriously they were in the kits back
> then. They weren't in mine in Feb 1991, SN:
> M3-011.
>
> john h
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
My buddy Jim Hanke.
===================
Right I see him just about every day. I need to
collect on the ride he promised me. I think he
mentioned something about the MV trip, but at the time
I was kinda processing about 3 major size glasses of
of wine so I kinda forgoten all about it till now. I
am not sure I want to sit in that thing of his all the
way up there (presuming there is a free seat), and
aint sure he would want to sit in my Sierra all the
way up there he is about 6'2' or more. I'll try to
talk to him Saturday, we got some kinda FAA/EAA bs
session at the big hanger. I wonder if there will be
any free chow.
do not archive
=====
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 22
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Do you know Jim at SouthWest prop? They did my last
OH.
As it worked properly, no leaks or other nasties I
took it back to them. Of course it was the old man
that did it last time. Now its the kid. He is also a
graduate of Cochise A&P program.
As for drinks I drink caffeine free coke/pepsi (with
regular suger, none of that diet stuff). I'll bring my
own and I ain't sharing that, as its hard to buy out
in the boonies (defined as no Safeway within a
reasonable distance). I almost went for the Kolbra,
but wanted something I could make money with, sight
seeing, intro flights, instruction, photo missions,
and the M3X looked more conventional for that.
Do not archive
================================
>
> I will be bringing a quantity of unobtainable brew,
> smuggled in on a
> foreign airline. Still in the military loop you
> know?
> So get to work on the Beech. I know about the busy
> hanger stuff, just
> helped on the restoration and overhaul of a
> Citabria. Prop and governor is
> only a two hour job. Add a few more for the mags,
> you should have it done
> this weekend. Kidding aside, who's doing the
> prop/governor overhaul?
> Going to be doing a major on my C175 this fall and
> haven't decided if I
> want to send them off, or have the work done
> locally. Sure didn't have
> this much expense with my FireStar. Starting to
> look real close at
> building a Kolbra. Hear we go again......
> Regards,
> Dave Rains
> El Paso's preeminent Ultralight Pilot, alpha male,
> and
> sexual dynamo!
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CaptainRon [SMTP:aerialron@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:33 AM
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon
> <aerialron@yahoo.com>
>
> any ideas
> on what would be good for the group (10 cases of Sam
> Adams is NOT an
> acceptable answer).
> AzDave
> ======================
>
> Geez Dave you drive a real hard bargain,, so ok,,
> bring 11 cases.
>
> I may????? make MV with the Beech if I am done with
> installing the prop and Gov' and finished my 500 hr
> inspection on the mags, and whatever else I get into
> while the prop and gov' are being OH.
> It will be interesting to meet everybody.
> Up to my eyeballs in airplane work here.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> =====
> Building M3X
> Southern Arizona
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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>
>
=====
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: NOT AGAIN!!! HVLP VS. PRESSURE POT |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gary robert voigt" <johndeereantique@qwest.net>
Ben and gang:
After talking with many painters and aircraft painters i decided to go
the graco HVLP (system 3800)
it lists for about $985.00 which does not mean any thing these days it is
what you pay that counts, paint sprayers out of Las vegas, nevada. has this
system $695.00 and non- residents pay no tax and about $20.00 to ship it...
then i found out that the distribution center is about 30 miles from my
house here in mn. and here i'm calling Las Vegas to order it so i found a
sherwin William's rep. that handles graco products and told him that i could
get a better deal down south and he did not want to lose out on a sale and
said i was getting a very good price so he matched it and saved me shipping
and i was able to get it tax exempt.
i decided not to get the pressure pot because it does not have the on board
compressor of course and the main reason is you will spend about $20.00
cleaning the hose with C2210 paint cleaner everytime you use it i'm told.
also you can still paint different attitudes with the 3800 system you just
have to keep the fan spray square with object to be painted and have the cup
rotated on the gun. picked up my cub yellow paint today and should be ready
to go in about 3 weeks. sorry to be so long winded. here is the link to the
site if any of you are interested.
http://www.searchalot.com/texis/open/s?p=google&q=hvlp+graco
getting educated....
Gary r. voigt
Ben Ransom wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
>
> Gary, let us know what model and price you find good on these better
> guns. Although it would be nice to be able to spray upside down or
> whatever, there is generally greater potential for runs this way too
> (speaking for myself anyway ;) ), so when easy, painting mostly
> downward is nice.
> -Ben
>
> --- Gary robert voigt <johndeereantique@qwest.net> wrote:
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gary robert voigt"
> > <johndeereantique@qwest.net>
> >
> > Hello guys, i have been doing my research on HVLP systems and it
> > seems that graco, devilbiss are the leaders in the industry there may
> > be
> > a few others but i did not want to spend 1800.00 on the top of the
> > line,
> > anyway my question is how many of you have used the pressure pot
> > system
> > or the capspray! it seems to me for only a couple hundred dollars
> > more
> > that would be the way to go particularly since my kolb is already
> > built
> > and i want to paint it a different color other than the juneau white
> > and
> > with this system you can apply paint in any attitude! thats right you
> > can lay on your back and paint the underside of the wing, you can not
> > do
> > this with most systems. is it worth the difference and did you get
> > good
> > results with regular HVLP. also do you gents go with a fresh air
> > system
> > or just a half mask. maybe by my first flyin this year i can get this
> > thing color coated!!!
> >
> > thanks in advance,
> > Gary r. voigt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
> __________________________________
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
Message 24
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Spoilsport. Yah, I'll be there on the 17th, but I'm gonna need
directions again, and I'll be a drive-in, not a fly-in. Can't remember how
I got there last Nov. I'm pretty much self-contained, so I'll be fine.
(don't drink, anyway) :-) Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: MV
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier"
<pelletier@cableone.net>
>
> Guys,
> I have reservations at the MV campground and will be arriving with a
motorhome and trailer on the 18th. George Thompson has talked about going
up with me, but he is out of town for a few weeks and I'm not sure whether
or not he is still planning to go. We (the Black Mesa Flyers) are having a
fly-in up here in Paulden (AZ) on the 17th and plan to leave for MV on
Sunday the 18th. Is anyone planning to come to our fly-in? I have room to
bring extra "stuff" to MV (chairs, etc.), any ideas on what would be good
for the group (10 cases of Sam Adams is NOT an acceptable answer).
> AzDave
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Victor 1+ - First Short Cross Country |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 02:53 PM 5/1/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "johnjung@compusenior.com" <johnjung@compusenior.com>
>
>Jack and Group,
>
>I would like to suggest that the speed difference is too much to make a
>decent comparison. I think that 2.1 gph should be achiveable with a 447.
>A few years ago I flew 60 miles at 45 mph with my 503 powered Firestar
>and got 2.25 gph. If a 503 can get that low at almost the same speed,
>then a 447 should be able to. I don't know if FireFly's need more fuel
>than Firestars, though.
>
>John Jung
>
>Jack Hart wrote:
>Ran some numbers to see how the Victor 1+ compared with the Rotax 447 over this
>same flight path. I had good data for nine flights with the Rotax 447. The
>average fuel burn was 5.7 gallons (3.1 gph). Yesterday, the Victor 1+ burned
>4.7 gallons (2.1 gph). In all fairness to the Rotax 447, the average flight ground
>speed was 58 mph and yesterday it was 48 mph.
>
John and Group,
I agree with you that it should be possible to get 2.1 gph with a 447 on a FireStar.
There are several factors in favor of the FireStar.
Assuming a 170 pound man and five gallons of gas and using TNK numbers for empty
weight one can find the following:
The wing loading of the FireStar will be 3.43 pounds per square foot and the FireFly
will be 3.88. So for any given speed, FireStar wing drag is going to be
less. The FireFly design presents much more drag. FireFly has two struts per
wing, FireStar has one strut per wing. FireFly has a short windshield, and
the FireStar has an all enclosing windshield.
Then I got to thinking. Early on I used to log engine rpm. I searched and looked
for logged flights that were 3/4 of an hour long or more and where the Rotax
447 was turning 5,000 rpm or less. I found four flights. Totaling the fuel
used and the flight times, the average overall fuel consumtion rate was 2.82
gph. The Victor 1+ was running at 5,000 rpm on 2.1 gph. The engine reduction
ratio favors the Victor 1+, but the propeller size favored the 447.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
WooooooHooooooo......................doesn't anybody in this outfit eat ??
Lar only drinks his diet (ugh) pepsi from the 20 oz
bottles.............can't handle the cans and big bottles too well, since
the Bell's Palsy episode; but I'll have lots of it with me. Better stock
up on the brewski's...............sounds like it's gonna be a necessity.
I'm gonna make darn sure the head in my camper works, and the holding tank
is empty. Sounds like we're a-gonna need it. John, I'll buy another
chair - just for you. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "kuffel" <kuffel@cyberport.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <kuffel@cyberport.net>
>
> John, Lar, et al,
>
> <<<Should I bring one, two or three cases of beer? <That will last me
> about three days.">>>
>
> Sorry, wasn't clear. Meant one, two or three cases per day.
>
> <<my drink of choice these days is Diet Pepsi. Big Lar is on the same
> "wagon">>
>
> Had already planned to bring some Diet (ugh) Pepsi for Big Lar. Will
> double the order to include you. Anyone for regular 7-Up? Suspect it
> is better to have our own supply rather than depend on the store being
> near, open, etc.
>
> Tom Kuffel
> Whitefish, MT
> Building Original FireStar
>
>
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi You All:
Someone mentioned a place to get Sectionals at a
reasonable price, much better than Sporty's.
However, I think I remember that they had to wait
forty forevers to get them. The good thing about
Sporty's is not the price, but they deliver quick.
Does anyone still have the url for the website?
Thanks in advance,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Best be extremely careful how you go about making money with any homebuilt.
FAA considers that to be a Romper Room No-No. Discrete Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MV
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
>
> Do you know Jim at SouthWest prop? They did my last
> OH.
> As it worked properly, no leaks or other nasties I
> took it back to them. Of course it was the old man
> that did it last time. Now its the kid. He is also a
> graduate of Cochise A&P program.
> As for drinks I drink caffeine free coke/pepsi (with
> regular suger, none of that diet stuff). I'll bring my
> own and I ain't sharing that, as its hard to buy out
> in the boonies (defined as no Safeway within a
> reasonable distance). I almost went for the Kolbra,
> but wanted something I could make money with, sight
> seeing, intro flights, instruction, photo missions,
> and the M3X looked more conventional for that.
>
> Do not archive
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Hope you mean Sporty's URL. Co-incidentally, my new Sporty's catalog just
came today, so..................here 'tis - - - - www.sportys.com
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Sectionals
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Hi You All:
>
> Someone mentioned a place to get Sectionals at a
> reasonable price, much better than Sporty's.
> However, I think I remember that they had to wait
> forty forevers to get them. The good thing about
> Sporty's is not the price, but they deliver quick.
>
> Does anyone still have the url for the website?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley & Essential Fluids |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> John, I'll buy another
> chair - just for you. Lar.
Lar/Gang:
That's mighty nice of you to think of me my
friend.
Reckon you are wanting to go flying once I get to
MV.
We can probably arrange that too.
Gotta do some Polyspray, White Polytone, Yellow
Aerothane, and Red Aerothane. Then Miss P'fer can
get her tail reattached. I'm ready to go flying.
Been a good while, except for the Fire Fly time I
got at Lakeland. But when you get right down to
the real nitty gritty, there ain't no plane like
my plane.
Been thinking a little since I got back into a
little building and finishing. One of those big
Kolbra airplanes would fly real well out of Gantt
International Airport and all the airports between
here and the North Slope......................
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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