Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:36 AM - Cuyuna fuel burn and Ultrastar ailerons (Ed Steuber)
2. 05:19 AM - Ultrastar Ailerons (John Hauck)
3. 07:11 AM - Re: Ultrastar ailerons (Richard Pike)
4. 07:31 AM - test ()
5. 07:31 AM - Mk- 3 passenger CG point ()
6. 07:53 AM - Re: Mk- 3 passenger CG point (Richard Pike)
7. 08:00 AM - Re: Mk- 3 passenger CG point (Larry Bourne)
8. 09:36 AM - Monument Valley - Campfire Wood (Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM)
9. 10:02 AM - Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood (Larry Bourne)
10. 10:03 AM - MV/update/short visit (Gherkins Tim-rp3420)
11. 10:32 AM - Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood (Bob N.)
12. 12:55 PM - Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood (Larry Bourne)
13. 01:33 PM - Re: MV/update/short visit (John Hauck)
14. 04:22 PM - painting the stripes! (Don Gherardini)
15. 05:03 PM - zinc oxide (Chuck Davis - Comcast)
16. 05:18 PM - paint (Bob Bean)
17. 05:29 PM - Re: zinc oxide (John Williamson)
18. 06:12 PM - Re: Ultrastar ailerons (Richard Swiderski)
19. 06:43 PM - Re: Ultrastar ailerons (ronnie wehba)
20. 07:14 PM - Re: test (Richard Harris)
21. 07:33 PM - Re: zinc oxide (Richard Pike)
22. 08:05 PM - Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood (jerb)
23. 08:13 PM - Re: zinc oxide (jerb)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cuyuna fuel burn and Ultrastar ailerons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
The cuyuna Ul 202 can burn as little as 2 gallons an hour at a reduced power
setting down to 4800 but a normal cruise setting of 5200 to 5400 is gonna
get you 2.5 to 3.
Now I need an answer to a question that I have been thinking about for
some time and need the help of you aeronautical engineers , experts or amateurs
...... Here Goes !
I have an Ultrastar with the original full span ailerons that are also
deep in chord and taper from wide at the butt rib out to the tip. They are original
as per plans. My last Ultrastar had heavy ailerons but they were shortened
like the newer Firestars by the previous owner before I purchased it. As it
is now the problem is probably greater. I want to make these lighter in response
but want to maintain the length for low speed lift .I have no flaperon system
and will not be adding it. I will be adding vortex generators after covering
but I doubt it will help as much as I need.
SOOOOO... I have been thinking about the options and they seem to be
.. 1.Goose Feet.....2 Servo tabs.....or 3 ( here's the question ) the extensions
on the ends of the ailerons as some of the WW1 German aircraft had that went
beyond the end of the wing and in front of the pivot point of the aileron.
This design was for lightening the aileron response ( Right?) . Some modern day
aircraft have this incorporated in the elevator system for the same reason I
assume ( Agcat , AA-5 )... I have already decided to paint the new Ultrastar
in WW1 colors with Iron Crosses so adding these aileron boosters would be relatively
easy and adding some balance weight for flutter at the same time could
be done. The reason these may have been used in the first place may have been
as a flutter prevention but I am only guessing....... Is there a fomula to figure
out how much area to add forward of the aileron hinge to get the desired result
without getting dangerous.....I may even do the elevators strictly for "eye
appeal" ....The" Homer bumps" on the ailerons and elevators have got to go
!
All info and ideas welcome....... except junking the Ultrastar !
This Ultrastar is going to be one of a kind ...check the photo share
for pics........changing as much as I already have is going to make for an interesting
test flight.....getting to old for too much excitement....I will have
to make sure I have a new box of "Depends" on hand.....
Ed in Western NY
Hey BB , when am I gonna see the new plane fly over
?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Ultrastar Ailerons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
I want to make these lighter in response but
want to maintain the length for low speed lift
. Ed in Western NY
Morning Ed/Gang:
I am strictly an amateur, shade tree at that.
When I built my MK III I reduced the cord of the
aileron and flap. My problem was I wanted less
aileron but all the flap I could get and still
stay in the same general area as designed. I
forget how much I reduced the cord at the outboard
end, but what I did was lay out the aileron and
flap, reduce the cord at the outboard end, snapped
a line to the standard inboard end. This took a
pretty good chunk out of the aileron area and not
so much out of my flaps.
If I were to build and fly an Ultrastar, I would
definitely cut the cord of the ailerons from
inboard to outboard. Don't know how much at this
time. It would be an experiment. Probably start
by chopping 1/3 the cord across the span. Might
even go to 1/2 cord. Again, for me, it would
strictly be an experiment.
I remember how stiff the original Ultrastar
ailrons were. Anything over 35 mph and they were
loaded up. The Ultrastar was the first airplane I
had ever flown. I was used to flying
helicopters. When I first took off I was
surprised at how much lateral stick movement was
required to maintain control and also how heavy
lateral stick movement was. Helicopters require
very little stick movement with little or no
resistance.
I flew my Ultrastar in the standard configuration
and never experiemented with changing aileron
configuration.
Subject was changed to reflect content of post.
john h
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar ailerons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Don't know how much aileron travel you currently have, or how much you
might be able to give away, but I felt my MKIII ailerons were excessively
stiff, so shortened the control horn at the fuselage end to reduce throw
and increase leverage. Was very pleased with the results. Any chance you
could drill a couple sets of alternate holes in the fuselage end bellcrank
(or add extensions to the aileron bellcranks?) make up a couple sets of
alternate length pushrods, fly it and see what happens? It is a lot less
drastic than modifying the ailerons because if gives a variety of options.
I discovered that the MKIII ailerons with 1/3 less travel were still more
than sufficient even in adverse conditions, and the control force is now
very comfortable.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:43 AM 5/12/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
>
> Now I need an answer to a question that I have been thinking
> about for some time and need the help of you aeronautical engineers ,
> experts or amateurs ...... Here Goes !
> I have an Ultrastar with the original full span ailerons that are
> also deep in chord and taper from wide at the butt rib out to the tip.
> They are original as per plans. My last Ultrastar had heavy ailerons but
> they were shortened like the newer Firestars by the previous owner before
> I purchased it. As it is now the problem is probably greater. I want to
> make these lighter in response but want to maintain the length for low
> speed lift .I have no flaperon system and will not be adding it. I will
> be adding vortex generators after covering but I doubt it will help as
> much as I need.
> SOOOOO... I have been thinking about the options and they seem
> to be .. 1.Goose Feet.....2 Servo tabs.....or 3 ( here's the question )
> the extensions on the ends of the ailerons as some of the WW1 German
> aircraft had that went beyond the end of the wing and in front of the
> pivot point of the aileron. This design was for lightening the aileron
> response ( Right?) . Some modern day aircraft have this incorporated in
> the elevator system for the same reason I assume ( Agcat , AA-5 )... I
> have already decided to paint the new Ultrastar in WW1 colors with Iron
> Crosses so adding these aileron boosters would be relatively easy and
> adding some balance weight for flutter at the same time could be done.
> The reason these may have been used in the first place may have been as a
> flutter prevention but I am only guessing....... Is there a fomula to
> figure out how much area to add forward of the aileron hinge to get the
> desired result without getting dangerous.....I may even do th!
>e elevators strictly for "eye appeal" ....The" Homer bumps" on the
>ailerons and elevators have got to go !
> All info and ideas welcome....... except junking the Ultrastar !
> This Ultrastar is going to be one of a kind ...check the
> photo share for pics........changing as much as I already have is going
> to make for an interesting test flight.....getting to old for too much
> excitement....I will have to make sure I have a new box of "Depends" on
> hand.....
>
> Ed in Western NY
> Hey BB , when am I gonna see the new plane
> fly over ?
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
test
Message 5
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| Subject: | Mk- 3 passenger CG point |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Mk-3 drivers,
What figure did you all use for the pilot/passenger cg point when working your
weight and balance sheets?
I get 2.5 to 3 inches in front of the leading edge datum point, just want to check
against what others measured.
Denny Rowe
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Mk- 3 passenger CG point |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Where ever your belly button is, that's your CG.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:44 AM 5/12/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>Mk-3 drivers,
>What figure did you all use for the pilot/passenger cg point when working
>your weight and balance sheets?
>I get 2.5 to 3 inches in front of the leading edge datum point, just want
>to check against what others measured.
>Denny Rowe
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Mk- 3 passenger CG point |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I measured 4" to my navel, and allowed the same for the passenger, but I've
got different seats. My A&P worked it out 3 times, and came up with 3
different answers for W&B. Looks like I'll hafta use my new-found education
and work it out for myself.....................after I get back from
Monument Valley. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Mk- 3 passenger CG point
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> Mk-3 drivers,
> What figure did you all use for the pilot/passenger cg point when working
your weight and balance sheets?
> I get 2.5 to 3 inches in front of the leading edge datum point, just want
to check against what others measured.
> Denny Rowe
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Monument Valley - Campfire Wood |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Kolb Friends -
There's been lots of talk about folks who are driving and bringing folding
chairs and things to drink.
But here's another item that we should consider: There is NO firewood to be
found in that area. Could somebody who's driving (Big Lar ??) possibly
bring some firewood? An evening campfire is a great end-of-day place to
share stories & fellowship with our other group members - would hate to miss
out on that aspect of a campout!
Dennis Kirby
New Mexico
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Good thought. I'll see what I can find.................tho' there's no
firewood here in the desert, either. Anyone else ??
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM
<Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
> Kolb Friends -
>
> There's been lots of talk about folks who are driving and bringing folding
> chairs and things to drink.
> But here's another item that we should consider: There is NO firewood to
be
> found in that area. Could somebody who's driving (Big Lar ??) possibly
> bring some firewood? An evening campfire is a great end-of-day place to
> share stories & fellowship with our other group members - would hate to
miss
> out on that aspect of a campout!
>
> Dennis Kirby
> New Mexico
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | MV/update/short visit |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@motorola.com>
John and gang,
I have been having problems posting lately, think the problem is fixed with the
help of Matt D. Hopefully this test/post will get thru. Also to give you an
update where we are at on our two Kolbs. Uncle Craig's Extra is in the middle
of paint stages and final work on the cage. We have sprayed polybrush, polyspray
and sanded forever. Then sprayed another final coat of polyspray on before
our top coat of white polytone. We found out that you can sand polytone,
so off we go to sanding that coat. We started spraying blue aerothane three
weeks ago. Right now we are masking and prepping for our yellow stripe theme,
that will take two weeks to prep paint/cure/sand/paint and cure the final coat.
Then we will finish in another two weeks with our final red stripes trim.
Lots of patience in painting as well as prep work. Uncle Craig is really going
first rate on his paint job and doing tons of prep before we spray. I really
believe that a great paint job is 90% prep and t!
he other 10% is the easy part of actually spraying the paint on.
I tried sending a reply to a post that asked about HVLP spray equipment but was
unable to. I have the Citation series HVLP with breathing system, the same stuff
Jim and Dondi sell and I will tell all of you that that investment is the
very best decision I have made in this whole project. I have sprayed metal,
fiberglass, fabric and wood with enamels, latex, polyurethane's on cars, furniture
and planes, and the HVLP system works flawlessly and beautifully.
My Firestar II is right in the middle of covering. I have both wing panels covered
and taped. Currently I am prepping and covering the tail feathers and control
surfaces. I have some welding to do on the fuselage and will start painting
my project in mid July thru August. I want to start fly in in September
in hopes to fly both of our planes to their first EAA debut of Copperstate 2003.
Our custom made 30 foot enclosed trailer will be delivered in one week built
by my oldest brother in Logan Utah. So lots going on right now, and we are
saddened to miss the MV trip, but we must stay focused to get these projects
done.
JOHN H.- In reply to your post below:
"Anybody along that flight line that is interested
in a short visit, let me know. Be glad to stop by
if it is not too far off my route of flight. I
always tell myself I am going to take my time and
really enjoy my flight, but when I get in my MK
III, point the nose towards my destination, I am
ready to make time. I don't spend much time on
the ground, although I land quite frequently."
I am extending our invitation (from last October EAA Copperstate Fly-in that you
could not make) to this MV trip. We would love to have you come and visit,
see the projects, give us some tips, eat dinner and stay in the guest bedroom.
The local airport (Falcon Field) has a top rate Air Museum called Chaplin Fighter
museum. You can tour that if you like as well. Let us know if the visit
fits your plans.
Take care,
Tim Gherkins Firestar II
Craig Nelson MIIIExtra
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Got a lotta "far-wud" here, butt hanging a coupla cords on the FireFly
would cut down my range a little. Sorry.
Bob N. Shenandoah Valley
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Make more stops. :-) Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
>
> Got a lotta "far-wud" here, butt hanging a coupla cords on the FireFly
> would cut down my range a little. Sorry.
>
> Bob N. Shenandoah Valley
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: MV/update/short visit |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Tim and Craig:
I will probably take you up on your offer.
Will let you know when I will arrive as soon as I
can determine, which will probably be a day or two
out.
Thanks again,
john h
Message 14
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| Subject: | painting the stripes! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Just a quick thanks to all of you fellas again....I got the paint going on and
staying where its supposed too! I have been using a blue 3-m plastic pin-stripe
tape for the curves....and green 3-m polypropalene for the rest...workin like
a charm...emmpenage finished and got both wings bottom side done....I saved
the top of the wings for last...because I figgered Id be a little better at it
by the time I got to them!...here is a link to page 10 of my firefly site...got
5 pics of the painting and ...arrggghhhh....MASKING! I believe I can calculate
that I can drill and install 12,476 rivets in the same time it takes to do
1 side of 1 wing!
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/painting.htm
thx a mil fellas!
Don
do not archive
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Chuck Davis - Comcast <davis207@comcast.net>
I was doing a little shopping in Aircraft Spruce. A spray can of Zinc Oxide
primer is $6.80. However, the additional shipping due to a "hazardous item"
is over $20.
When I added a quart of tube seal (smallest size available) the shipping
charges went up another 30+ USD.
Can any one suggest some alternatives / alternative sources (local
availability?) that are not so economically non-sensible?
Chuck Davis
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Don, looks great, better just park it in the living room, don't want a
bunch of bugs and engine juices boogering it all up. Build a twin
and paint it battleship gray with a roller for flying. -BB do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@attbi.com>
Chuck, gang:
Here in the DFW area we have Tex-Air Parts in Ft worth and Aviall in Dallas.
Each carries primer and Tex-Air has the full line of Poly Fiber products.
I use these local folks just to avoid the shipping and hazardous material
fee.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, N49KK, Jabiru 2200, 257 hours
http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar ailerons |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
Ed,
The spades and the extensions would certainly help to lighten the
lateral force, but the trailing edge of the wing & the leading edge of the
ailerons are only .028" which will not handle much of a load & those forces
could get to be pretty strong. I was going to go that route myself but was
advised by Dennis S not to. I did what Richard Pike suggested and I also
went with flaperons which was a huge payoff for me.
Richard Swiderski
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Steuber" <esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
> >
> > Now I need an answer to a question that I have been thinking
> > about for some time and need the help of you aeronautical engineers ,
> > experts or amateurs ...... Here Goes !
> > I have an Ultrastar with the original full span ailerons that
are
> > also deep in chord and taper from wide at the butt rib out to the tip.
> > They are original as per plans. My last Ultrastar had heavy ailerons but
> > they were shortened like the newer Firestars by the previous owner
before
> > I purchased it. As it is now the problem is probably greater. I want to
> > make these lighter in response but want to maintain the length for low
> > speed lift .I have no flaperon system and will not be adding it. I will
> > be adding vortex generators after covering but I doubt it will help as
> > much as I need.
> > SOOOOO... I have been thinking about the options and they seem
> > to be .. 1.Goose Feet.....2 Servo tabs.....or 3 ( here's the question )
> > the extensions on the ends of the ailerons as some of the WW1 German
> > aircraft had that went beyond the end of the wing and in front of the
> > pivot point of the aileron. This design was for lightening the aileron
> > response ( Right?) . Some modern day aircraft have this incorporated in
> > the elevator system for the same reason I assume ( Agcat , AA-5 )... I
> > have already decided to paint the new Ultrastar in WW1 colors with Iron
> > Crosses so adding these aileron boosters would be relatively easy and
> > adding some balance weight for flutter at the same time could be done.
> > The reason these may have been used in the first place may have been as
a
> > flutter prevention but I am only guessing....... Is there a fomula to
> > figure out how much area to add forward of the aileron hinge to get the
> > desired result without getting dangerous.....I may even do th!
> >e elevators strictly for "eye appeal" ....The" Homer bumps" on the
> >ailerons and elevators have got to go !
> > All info and ideas welcome....... except junking the
Ultrastar !
> > This Ultrastar is going to be one of a kind ...check the
> > photo share for pics........changing as much as I already have is going
> > to make for an interesting test flight.....getting to old for too much
> > excitement....I will have to make sure I have a new box of "Depends" on
> > hand.....
> >
> > Ed in Western NY
> > Hey BB , when am I gonna see the new plane
> > fly over ?
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar ailerons |
BAYES_01, DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12, ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
REFERENCES)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
As I just got my ultrastar about 4 weeks ago,, what is wrong with it as is?
it flys great. am I missing something here? thanks ron in texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultrastar ailerons
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski"
<swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
>
> Ed,
>
> The spades and the extensions would certainly help to lighten the
> lateral force, but the trailing edge of the wing & the leading edge of the
> ailerons are only .028" which will not handle much of a load & those
forces
> could get to be pretty strong. I was going to go that route myself but
was
> advised by Dennis S not to. I did what Richard Pike suggested and I also
> went with flaperons which was a huge payoff for me.
>
> Richard Swiderski
>
>
> > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Steuber"
<esteuber@rochester.rr.com>
> > >
> > > Now I need an answer to a question that I have been thinking
> > > about for some time and need the help of you aeronautical engineers ,
> > > experts or amateurs ...... Here Goes !
> > > I have an Ultrastar with the original full span ailerons that
> are
> > > also deep in chord and taper from wide at the butt rib out to the tip.
> > > They are original as per plans. My last Ultrastar had heavy ailerons
but
> > > they were shortened like the newer Firestars by the previous owner
> before
> > > I purchased it. As it is now the problem is probably greater. I want
to
> > > make these lighter in response but want to maintain the length for low
> > > speed lift .I have no flaperon system and will not be adding it. I
will
> > > be adding vortex generators after covering but I doubt it will help as
> > > much as I need.
> > > SOOOOO... I have been thinking about the options and they
seem
> > > to be .. 1.Goose Feet.....2 Servo tabs.....or 3 ( here's the
question )
> > > the extensions on the ends of the ailerons as some of the WW1 German
> > > aircraft had that went beyond the end of the wing and in front of the
> > > pivot point of the aileron. This design was for lightening the aileron
> > > response ( Right?) . Some modern day aircraft have this incorporated
in
> > > the elevator system for the same reason I assume ( Agcat , AA-5 )... I
> > > have already decided to paint the new Ultrastar in WW1 colors with
Iron
> > > Crosses so adding these aileron boosters would be relatively easy and
> > > adding some balance weight for flutter at the same time could be done.
> > > The reason these may have been used in the first place may have been
as
> a
> > > flutter prevention but I am only guessing....... Is there a fomula to
> > > figure out how much area to add forward of the aileron hinge to get
the
> > > desired result without getting dangerous.....I may even do th!
> > >e elevators strictly for "eye appeal" ....The" Homer bumps" on the
> > >ailerons and elevators have got to go !
> > > All info and ideas welcome....... except junking the
> Ultrastar !
> > > This Ultrastar is going to be one of a kind ...check the
> > > photo share for pics........changing as much as I already have is
going
> > > to make for an interesting test flight.....getting to old for too much
> > > excitement....I will have to make sure I have a new box of "Depends"
on
> > > hand.....
> > >
> > > Ed in Western NY
> > > Hey BB , when am I gonna see the new
plane
> > > fly over ?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
Boy, we sure having a lot of test lately.. Hope we pass this one!!!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Richard Harris
MK3 N912RH
Lewisville, Arkansas
----- Original Message -----
From: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: test
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
> test
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I have found spray cans of Zinc Chromate primer in the local Army surplus
store cheap. Tube seal is nothing more than boiled linseed oil. (Wonder how
that's different from plain linseed oil?) Try Lowes, Home Depot, Ace
Hardware, etc.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:43 PM 5/12/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Chuck Davis - Comcast <davis207@comcast.net>
>
>I was doing a little shopping in Aircraft Spruce. A spray can of Zinc Oxide
>primer is $6.80. However, the additional shipping due to a "hazardous item"
>is over $20.
>
>
>When I added a quart of tube seal (smallest size available) the shipping
>charges went up another 30+ USD.
>
>
>Can any one suggest some alternatives / alternative sources (local
>availability?) that are not so economically non-sensible?
>
>
>Chuck Davis
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
What about them fire place log they sell by the case. They actually work
pretty good for camp fires and last just about a whole evening. Used to
use them at Oshkosh.
jerb
At 10:02 AM 5/12/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
>Good thought. I'll see what I can find.................tho' there's no
>firewood here in the desert, either. Anyone else ??
>Lar. Do not Archive.
>
>Larry Bourne
>Palm Springs, CA
>Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
>www.gogittum.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley - Campfire Wood
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM
><Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
> >
> > Kolb Friends -
> >
> > There's been lots of talk about folks who are driving and bringing folding
> > chairs and things to drink.
> > But here's another item that we should consider: There is NO firewood to
>be
> > found in that area. Could somebody who's driving (Big Lar ??) possibly
> > bring some firewood? An evening campfire is a great end-of-day place to
> > share stories & fellowship with our other group members - would hate to
>miss
> > out on that aspect of a campout!
> >
> > Dennis Kirby
> > New Mexico
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@airmail.net>
Sounds like there double dipping on the hazardous fee. What's interesting
I've found it varies depending upon who your doing business
with. Shouldn't be two charges for the same shipment. How much does FedEx
Ground charge? I've found I can ship stuff for 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of
what UPS charges and it gets there faster, St-Pete to Dallas in 2 days and
the box looked like it was hardly touched. Kind of like what UPS used to
be like, fast, and gentle.
jerb
At 07:43 PM 5/12/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Chuck Davis - Comcast <davis207@comcast.net>
>
>I was doing a little shopping in Aircraft Spruce. A spray can of Zinc Oxide
>primer is $6.80. However, the additional shipping due to a "hazardous item"
>is over $20.
>
>
>When I added a quart of tube seal (smallest size available) the shipping
>charges went up another 30+ USD.
>
>
>Can any one suggest some alternatives / alternative sources (local
>availability?) that are not so economically non-sensible?
>
>
>Chuck Davis
>
>
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