---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/10/03: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:07 AM - Re: Michigans Thumb (Larry Bourne) 2. 02:23 AM - Re: Fatality (John Hauck) 3. 04:29 AM - Kolb trailers (Jim Bryan) 4. 05:04 AM - Re: Kolb trailers () 5. 09:35 AM - Drag Reduction, FireFly Wing Strut Fairings & A Quieter FireFly (Jack & Louise Hart) 6. 12:01 PM - Monument Valley Pics (John Hauck) 7. 12:04 PM - Monument Valley Pics (2) (John Hauck) 8. 12:32 PM - Re: Monument Valley Pics (John Williamson) 9. 12:38 PM - Lights?! Lights?! We don't need no stinking lights! (Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious) 10. 01:43 PM - Re: Michigans Thumb (woody) 11. 03:52 PM - Howdy! (Paul Petty) 12. 04:49 PM - Re: Drag Reduction, FireFly Wing Strut Fairings & A Quieter FireFly (Don Gherardini) 13. 05:15 PM - Re: Lights?! Lights?! We don't need no stinking lights! (Cy Galley) 14. 05:16 PM - Oshkosh fly-in (Scott Trask) 15. 05:46 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly-in (John Williamson) 16. 06:03 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly-in (Kirk Smith) 17. 06:11 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly-in (Rick & Martha Neilsen) 18. 06:14 PM - Re: Michigans Thumb (Larry Bourne) 19. 06:45 PM - Two Struts Per Wing on FireFly (Jack & Louise Hart) 20. 07:19 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly-in (John Hauck) 21. 07:22 PM - Re: Air Ralley (possums) 22. 07:29 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly-in (John Hauck) 23. 07:51 PM - Re: Air Ralley (John Hauck) 24. 08:00 PM - Re: Howdy! (Larry Bourne) 25. 08:23 PM - Re: Drag Reduction, FireFly Wing Strut Fairings & A (Richard Pike) 26. 08:34 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly-in (Larry Bourne) 27. 09:11 PM - Re: Air Ralley (possums) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:32 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Michigans Thumb --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" At about the end of July, I'll be coming down Michigan's Upper Peninsula, on the way from Minnesota & Wisconsin, to southern Ontario, and Niagara Falls, before heading for Baltimore, West-by-god-Virginia, and points south. It'd be nice to meet some of you in that area, and maybe even promote a sightseeing ride..........or 3. (???) I'll be leaving here in about 2 1/2 weeks, and heading north to Oregon, Idaho, Washington, British Columbia, then east. Ground Bound (for now) Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "al bumhoffer" Subject: Kolb-List: Michigans Thumb > --> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer > > Thanks for promoting the Thumb Area of Michigan Ken. > What a great group of pilots and ultralights we > residents of the Thumb witnessed this past Saturday,a > first for a lot of the locals probably. We have a > beautiful area to fly in. A view of Lake Huron on > three sides and nice flat farm fields to land in. > Drop in any time. Al Bumhoffer, > still building > Firestar II > > Do Not Archive > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:17 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fatality --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Somerset is about 35 miles west of London. > Bill Bill/Gang: I stand corrected. I got Corbin and Somerset confused. Howard Ping is right next to Pucker Patch International Airport. :-) john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:29 AM PST US From: "Jim Bryan" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb trailers --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim Bryan" Can Anybody Help!!! Is there any body in the good ole U.S of A can help me in locating either Richard Swinderski or Gene Ledbetter. Both of the posted e:mail adds don't seem to work I need help in building a covered trailer for my Mk3. Regards, Jim Bryan Protect your PC from e-mail viruses. Get MSN 8 today. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:20 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb trailers --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim, You can call me at 513-984-4009. Gene Ledbetter Email is gdledbetter1@fuse.net Very often, the 1 is not noticed in my email address. ------------------------------------------------ > Can Anybody Help!!! > > Is there any body in the good ole U.S of A can help me in locating either Richard Swinderski or Gene Ledbetter. Both of the posted e:mail adds don't seem to work > I need help in building a covered trailer for my Mk3. > Regards, > > Jim Bryan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:54 AM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Kolb-List: Drag Reduction, FireFly Wing Strut Fairings & A Quieter FireFly --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart Kolbers, I have been looking at reducing drag while remaining Part 103 compliant. At 55 mphi one can calculate/estimate the horsepower required to overcome the drag of various components. Struts -> 1.7 hp Rear of fuselage -> 1.4 hp (covered from top to bottom) All 5/16 OD trailing edges -> 0.8 hp Aileron/flaperon torque tubes -> 0.6 hp Aileron push rod tubes -> .2 hp Tail wires -> .2 hp If one fairs all these out, one could expect to reduce the horsepower to fly 55 mphi by 4.5 hp, and remain Part 103 compliant. Other areas for drag reduction would be the wing mid section, and the gap between the horizontal stabilizer and the fuselage tube. I started by mounting some fairings to the original round tube struts on the FireFly. My out of pocket cost was minimal, but I have several hours invested in figuring out how to get them made. They came out about twice as heavy as I thought they would be. The total weight gain was 12 ounces. I mounted the struts yesterday and flew for about 45 minutes. I expected the FireFly to cruise a little better, but the most noticeable effect was that the FireFly is quieter because the struts do not strum in the wind as one flies. I never noticed they strummed until the noise was gone. It was a normal sound of flying the FireFly. After thinking about it I realized this strumming is caused by the vortices generated on the back side of the tubing, first from one side and then the other. This caused the tubes to vibrate up and down perpendicular to the airflow. The fairings stiffen and improve the air flow about the struts which minimize vortex generation. I put up a new page at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly91.html Now to go for the back of the fuselage. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:00 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Pics --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck All: Here are some MV pics by Dennis Kirby of Cedar Crest, NM: http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Dennis%20Kirby/ After you get to the index page, click on the individual file to bring up the pic. Then hit the back button to go back to the index page. The name of the file explains who is in the pic, except for "Bunch". The hoodlums, left to right are: Tom Kuffel Ziggy Boyd Young Arizona Dave Pelletier John Hauck Eric Weaver Dennis Kirby John Williamson Jim Hefner Camera shy is Big Lar, alias Larry Bourne Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:36 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Pics (2) --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck All: Sorry folks. Also camera shy was Dave Raines. Actually, they (Dave and Larry B) were behind the camera in the Cessna, waiting to take off. If they had gotten their lazy butts out of the Cessna and in line with the rest of us, we would have gotten one picture of all the Kolbers that made it to MV, not counting wives and children. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:18 PM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Pics --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" John H. and Listers, Thanks for the great photos John. I have added a couple of more links on my website so these photos can be found very easy. http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot/OtherKolbPhotos.htm John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, N49KK, Jabiru 2200, 331 hours http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:48 PM PST US From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Subject: Kolb-List: Lights?! Lights?! We don't need no stinking lights! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Folks, My Mark III is/was ready for inspection, maybe. I just read FAR 91, Section 91.205. Here's the part that confused me... . For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made. Do I have to have a light on my Mark III to pass inspection? I am certifying it for VFR day only. Thanx ... Bob ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:12 PM PST US From: woody Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Michigans Thumb --> Kolb-List message posted by: woody When will you be making it through the Detroit area? Gotta get the totem pole ready for your visit. At 12:07 AM 6/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > >At about the end of July, I'll be coming down Michigan's Upper Peninsula, on >the way from Minnesota & Wisconsin, to southern Ontario, and Niagara Falls, >before heading for Baltimore, West-by-god-Virginia, and points south. It'd >be nice to meet some of you in that area, and maybe even promote a >sightseeing ride..........or 3. (???) I'll be leaving here in about 2 1/2 >weeks, and heading north to Oregon, Idaho, Washington, British Columbia, >then east. Ground Bound (for now) Lar. Do >not Archive. > >Larry Bourne >Palm Springs, CA >Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB > >www.gogittum.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "al bumhoffer" >To: >Subject: Kolb-List: Michigans Thumb > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: al bumhoffer > > > > Thanks for promoting the Thumb Area of Michigan Ken. > > What a great group of pilots and ultralights we > > residents of the Thumb witnessed this past Saturday,a > > first for a lot of the locals probably. We have a > > beautiful area to fly in. A view of Lake Huron on > > three sides and nice flat farm fields to land in. > > Drop in any time. Al Bumhoffer, > > still building > > Firestar II > > > > Do Not Archive > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:47 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Howdy! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Hi Folks, Looks like the MV trip was a blast. Hope to make it out there next year in my kolb. I haven't seen any post from Captn Ron? Is he still around the list? Wondering if he still wants to test fly the HD. pp.... N4958P Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:49 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Drag Reduction, FireFly Wing Strut Fairings & A Quieter FireFly --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Jack, very interesting this strut stuff! Something I have been wondering about our FireFlys tho. The wing seems just the same as a Firestar..but shorter. The wing loading is also about equal if the Firefly is kept light within reason...now...why do we have 2 struts and they have Just one? I have heard speculation about Dennis designing 2 struts on the Firefly to slow it down and remain within part 103...I am gonna have to hear that from Dennis himself I think ..seems pretty odd to me...as it is too fast still....HE coulda just used a smaller engine, that would have made a whole lot more sense. What I would like to know is if anyone has attempted to use one strut on a firefly or anyone has seen this done? http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Don Gherardini- FireFly 098 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:43 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lights?! Lights?! We don't need no stinking lights! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" No Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Subject: Kolb-List: Lights?! Lights?! We don't need no stinking lights! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" > > > Folks, > My Mark III is/was ready for inspection, maybe. I just read FAR 91, Section 91.205. Here's the part that confused me... . > > > For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made. > > Do I have to have a light on my Mark III to pass inspection? I am certifying it for VFR day only. > > > Thanx ... Bob > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in From: Scott Trask --> Kolb-List message posted by: Scott Trask Yo, all you trolls down there in Lower Michigan, If you want to come on up to God's Country (the U.P.) on your way to Oshkosh, this UPer would be happy to guide you all in to Oshkosh Fly-In this year. You'd be welcome to hang your hat here on the back forty. Scott Trask Mk111 @ IMT ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:44 PM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" Hi Scott, I'm not in Lower Michigan but will be spending the night of 29 July at IMT. Plan to fly to Oshkosh on the 30th. What are your plans? John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, N49KK, Jabiru 2200, 331 hours http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:19 PM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > Yo, all you trolls down there in Lower Michigan, > > If you want to come on up to God's Country (the U.P.) on your way to > Oshkosh, this UPer would be happy to guide you all in to Oshkosh Fly-In this > year. You'd be welcome to hang your hat here on the back forty. > Scott Trask Mk111 @ IMT Yah! Tuh duh YooPee eh? Hope ya got room in duh voods fer tuh land der plane eh? Git duh ole Plymit runnin fer ta get some pasties in town eh? Eh! und git some vood ver duh sauna und shop a hole duh lake ice fer some skinny dippin........WHoopie!!!!!!! Snuf Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:32 PM PST US From: Rick & Martha Neilsen Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in --> Kolb-List message posted by: Rick & Martha Neilsen Hey Scott I would like that. I haven't done any cross country work in my MKIII "YET" so it is a bit of a stretch to confirm that I will be there but at this point I'm planning on Oshkosh and the God's county route sounds like the best way to go. How far are you from Oshkosh and when are you planning to attend? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIII -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Trask Subject: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in --> Kolb-List message posted by: Scott Trask Yo, all you trolls down there in Lower Michigan, If you want to come on up to God's Country (the U.P.) on your way to Oshkosh, this UPer would be happy to guide you all in to Oshkosh Fly-In this year. You'd be welcome to hang your hat here on the back forty. Scott Trask Mk111 @ IMT ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:40 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Michigans Thumb --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" I'll know more tomorrow. As I said yesterday, I plan on coming thru Michigan, north to south, around the end of July. Lots happening en route, so exact planning isn't possible, tho' I do hafta wait till August before arriving in West Virginia. Now, my boss is digging in his heels at the idea of me being gone for 2 1/2 months - tho' I've been talking about it for the last 6 months. Now, all of a sudden the time is NOW, he realizes I'm serious, and he's freaking. It got pretty salty today, and I'll know more tomorrow. It's easy to make big noises, but this is a VERY good job that I really enjoy.............so I may hafta modify my plans a little. I'll keep you posted. I'll be on the computer as I travel, and would really enjoy meeting the people I've been talking to for so long................and for sure promoting a ride here & there. Monument Valley was a great example. As I approach your (anyones) area, let me know, and I'll see if I can stop for a bit. I've found that it's much easier and more comfortable for everyone if I spend the nights in my camper, and socialize during the day and early evening. That way I don't hafta tear up my "home" in order to mess up someone's spare room for no real reason. Just need a reasonably flat area to park in. Electric hookup is nice, but not necessary unless it's hot enuf to need the a/c - otherwise, I'm self contained. Gogittin' Lar Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Michigans Thumb > --> Kolb-List message posted by: woody > > > When will you be making it through the Detroit area? Gotta get the totem > pole ready for your visit. > > > At 12:07 AM 6/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > > >At about the end of July, I'll be coming down Michigan's Upper Peninsula, on > >the way from Minnesota & Wisconsin, to southern Ontario, and Niagara Falls, > >before heading for Baltimore, West-by-god-Virginia, and points south. It'd > >be nice to meet some of you in that area, and maybe even promote a > >sightseeing ride..........or 3. (???) I'll be leaving here in about 2 1/2 > >weeks, and heading north to Oregon, Idaho, Washington, British Columbia, > >then east. Ground Bound (for now) Lar. Do > >not Archive. > > > >Larry Bourne > >Palm Springs, CA > >Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB > > > >www.gogittum.com > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "al bumhoffer" > >To: > >Subject: Kolb-List: Michigans Thumb > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:05 PM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Kolb-List: Two Struts Per Wing on FireFly --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 06:54 PM 6/10/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" >I have heard speculation about Dennis designing 2 struts on the Firefly to >slow it down and remain within part 103...I am gonna have to hear that from >Dennis himself I think ..seems pretty odd to me...as it is too fast >still....HE coulda just used a smaller engine, that would have made a whole >lot more sense. > Don, It all has to do with trying to keep the FireFly with in the ultra light vehicle envelope. You can see for your self at: http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/fireflylegal.html All the calculations are there to see if the FireFly meets Part 103-7 requirements. In defense of Dennis choice of engine, one must remember that the Dennis had to design with the Rotax 447 because at that time there was not much to choose from. To get rid of that power, he was forced to use the four struts, the pilot half exposed, etc. to come up with an acceptable drag factor. Also, one must remember that by meeting the design parameters in Part 103-7 Appendixes fulfills the requirements for an aircraft to be called an ultra light vehicle. Under these constrains, if you can get it to cruise faster than 63 mph and stall faster than 27 mph, it remains a legal ultra light vehicle. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:30 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > You'd be welcome to hang your hat here on the back forty. > Scott Trask Mk111 @ IMT Hi Scott/All: Maybe I should of said "YO"! EH! Anyhow, send us your gps coordinates. Will never find your cabin in all those trees and swamps without them. When shall we meet at Scott's? How far north of OSH is your airstrip? Historically, it would be a nice flight for me from Alabama. 1989, came into OSH from the north in my Firestar. What do you all say? If we can't make it before OSH, them maybe we could hookup afterwards. Beautiful country right up the road from Scott's, around the Marquette, MI/Lake Superior area. Usually, cool up there in the summer time. john h PS: Some of you all thought we were kidding about MV, but look how many of the good guys showed up and boy did we have fun! DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:38 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Air Ralley --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums They/we will be setting things up all day Friday and camping out Friday nite - if the weather is good. Mostly "them" - it's good for the new members to take charge ain't it? Probably will be camping out on Saturday nite too. But you never can tell about Saturday. Come over and I'll buy the frog legs at "that restaurant" on the river - and you eat them. At 08:09 PM 6/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > 2003 GSFA AIR RALLY > > Saturday, June 14 (Campers Welcome Fri-Sat; rain date: June 15) > > Etowah Bend Gliderport, Kingston , Ga > >Possum/Gang: > >I'll try and be there. Think we might be able to >go over to that little resturant we went to last >year? > >Folks, this is a good little flyin and a lot of >fun. Located in a great area. > >john h ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:28 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > I'm not in Lower Michigan but will be spending the night of 29 July at IMT. > Plan to fly to Oshkosh on the 30th. > > What are your plans? > > John Williamson John W/All: Check out this url for IMT: http://www.wisflyers.com/WA/iron_mountain.htm Sounds like fun and a good place to eat if it doesn't slide in the lake first. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:29 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Air Ralley --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Probably will be camping out on Saturday nite too. But you never can tell > about Saturday. > Come over and I'll buy the frog legs at "that restaurant" on the river - > and you eat them. Possum/All: I'll plan on flying up Sat morning if I can get up and out of here early, unless I am going to miss something Friday, other than work. Have you heard from any of the other Kolbers or the guys in Panama City? Steven Green should fly down. Have not heard from him. Gave Steven a ride in the Mark III at Etowah several years ago. A good little flyin, in a beautiful area of North Georgia. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:35 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Howdy! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Going by the last email he sent, it appears ol' Cap'n Ron went to Alaska to work for the summer. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Howdy! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Hi Folks, > Looks like the MV trip was a blast. Hope to make it out there next year in my kolb. I haven't seen any post from Captn Ron? Is he still around the list? Wondering if he still wants to test fly the HD. > > pp.... > N4958P > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:45 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Drag Reduction, FireFly Wing Strut Fairings & A Quieter FireFly --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Nice idea, and it ought to pay off well. The latest issue of the EAA Experimenter had some data charts on drag caused by two struts one behind the other, so as long as it's you doing it and not me, what if... Seems like I remember an old Waco? Stinson? (something) that had two struts per side, and the bottom third of the strut gap on each side was joined with one large streamline to reduce the interference drag caused by the one strut being close behind the other. Might be worth taking a real close look at the chart in the Part 103 documentation and see if you could get away with fairing/combining part/a lot of the lower part of the two struts together and still make the legalities work? Or would it cause too much trouble setting up/breaking down the aircraft? Would it be worth the trouble? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Do Not Archive At 11:32 AM 6/10/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart > >Kolbers, > >I have been looking at reducing drag while remaining Part 103 >compliant. At 55 mphi one can calculate/estimate the horsepower required >to overcome the drag of various components. > >Struts -> 1.7 hp >Rear of fuselage -> 1.4 hp (covered from top to bottom) >All 5/16 OD trailing edges -> 0.8 hp >Aileron/flaperon torque tubes -> 0.6 hp >Aileron push rod tubes -> .2 hp >Tail wires -> .2 hp > >If one fairs all these out, one could expect to reduce the horsepower to >fly 55 mphi by 4.5 hp, and remain Part 103 compliant. Other areas for >drag reduction would be the wing mid section, and the gap between the >horizontal stabilizer and the fuselage tube. > >I started by mounting some fairings to the original round tube struts on >the FireFly. My out of pocket cost was minimal, but I have several hours >invested in figuring out how to get them made. They came out about twice >as heavy as I thought they would be. The total weight gain was 12 ounces. > >I mounted the struts yesterday and flew for about 45 minutes. I expected >the FireFly to cruise a little better, but the most noticeable effect was >that the FireFly is quieter because the struts do not strum in the wind as >one flies. I never noticed they strummed until the noise was gone. It >was a normal sound of flying the FireFly. After thinking about it I >realized this strumming is caused by the vortices generated on the back >side of the tubing, first from one side and then the other. This caused >the tubes to vibrate up and down perpendicular to the airflow. The >fairings stiffen and improve the air flow about the struts which minimize >vortex generation. > >I put up a new page at: > >http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly91.html > >Now to go for the back of the fuselage. > >Jack B. Hart FF004 >Jackson, MO > > >Jack & Louise Hart >jbhart@ldd.net > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:03 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Funny how a person's head works - if mine can be said to work. I'll be coming thru Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc., at the end of July, and hadn't given a thought to Oshkosh. Never entered my mind. A bit ago, I got a message off List and the sender mentioned something like "you're not coming this far at this time of year and not making Oshkosh ??" Hadta chuckle..........no, I hadn't planned on it. I'm still not sure..................do they have golf carts, or somesuch for rent there ?? If not, I'll hafta pass - just can't walk that much anymore. Arthritis rules. Now, here's John setting up another meeting for OSH. Yah, you bet, if it's anything like M.V. turned out, it'll be irresistable..............if the timing works out. Won't have a lot of time to sit in 1 spot for any length of time. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh fly-in > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > You'd be welcome to hang your hat here on the back forty. > > Scott Trask Mk111 @ IMT > > Hi Scott/All: > > Maybe I should of said "YO"! EH! > > Anyhow, send us your gps coordinates. Will never > find your cabin in all those trees and swamps > without them. > > When shall we meet at Scott's? How far north of > OSH is your airstrip? Historically, it would be a > nice flight for me from Alabama. 1989, came into > OSH from the north in my Firestar. > > What do you all say? If we can't make it before > OSH, them maybe we could hookup afterwards. > Beautiful country right up the road from Scott's, > around the Marquette, MI/Lake Superior area. > Usually, cool up there in the summer time. > > john h > > PS: Some of you all thought we were kidding about > MV, but look how many of the good guys showed up > and boy did we have fun! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:08 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Air Ralley --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums >Possum/All: > >I'll plan on flying up Sat morning if I can get up >and out of here early, unless I am going to miss >something Friday, other than work. ---------- Here's what you'll be missing - I'd come Sat. morning - if I was you. I'll email Highsmith, you find Steve Green. ---------- May 31, 2003 Mid-Month Punch ListMeeting Fuel was discussed. It will be picked up in a 50 gallon tank, kept on the bed of a pickup truck and mixed using PENNZOIL Aircraft OIL in separate 6 gallon containers then sold at cost to who wants to purchase gas. Fuel to be delivered by the use of the pick up truck to planes. 93 AMOCO Octane will be used. We will refill the 50 gallon tank as needed. Bill Wood is responsible to pick up the Chuck Wagon. Thanks Bill! Friday evening prior to the air Rally folks are welcome to camp-out as well as help with last minute setup!! There was discussion of a dinner and breakfast, and maybe a bonfire, if enough folks showed interest in this activity. There is a shower in the clubhouse for guests. Air Boss/runway lights were discussed next. Richard Logue has a large green and red traffic light with 12 lenses that will be used to signal pilots of landing conditions. Kim Arrowood presided over the meeting. Kim went over items on her Punch-list. P.A. System: System available, all arrangements confirmed. Candy Drop: Falls under games. 3 candy drops done during last years rally. RC Helicopter, Trike, Ultralight. Person buying food to pick up candy at that time. Fuel: Ready. Have(2) 6 gallon plastic containers to mix fuel and have portable 2-way radios to be used to call fuel truck. We still need a fuel sign with price and contact persons name to buy fuel. Media: Video cameras (2) ready with extra Hi 8 Film and extra battery packs. It is requested that anyone shooting video or digital pictures at the rally please contact me (Hugo Garcia) so I can arrange to get copies of pictures and videos we want to use your videos and pictures on the GSFA website. The website has the capability to show video clips as well as still images. We will compile a 5-10 min video recap of this years festivities in a streaming video for the website. T-Shirts: Have 150 T-shirts cost $1087. Invoice to be paid after the air rally sales. We got a flat rate for all shirts even the XXL were priced the same. Runway: The runway needed inspection to locate pot holes and filled these in with dirt. This task will be done Monday June 9th. Treasury: We will need $100 of change. It is asked that GSFA please bring plenty of small bills should change be needed we can ask members to change larger bills for smaller bills. Thanks! Aviation Radios: We have radios for the Air Boss and crew, additional loaner aviation radios or 2-way radios would be welcome. Generators and Extension Cords, Fuel for Generators: Ready. Food/Igloos/Ice: Cook staff and crew in place. Kim will round up the food and candy and ice. Menu: Hotdogs, hamburgers, baked beans, chips, sodas/bottled water, bags of Famous Amos Cookies. Chuck Wagon pickup and return arranged. Water sales were discussed and bottled water will be available for sale. Scaffolding: Ready. To be obtained same place as last year. Tables/Chairs/Moon Walk: All theses items rented same place as moon walk. Parking: The Boy Scout troop helping with parking will be at the field Saturday at 8am. Three volunteers are need to teach scouts about aviation so they can earn aviation merit badges. Please contact Kim Arrowwood to volunteer if interested, there are certain requirements the scouts need to complete to earn this badge. Insurance: The final discussion was on the cost of the use of Etowah Bend facilities. In the past the club has paid of the insurance cost about $400 at Etowah Bend in return for the use of these facilities. There is strong indication that the insurance will go up and GSFAs share maybe $800-1200 per year. This issue was left unresolved until we get a firm quote of what will be due for the use of Etowah Bend, and will probably be an item on the GSFA Website for members to vote on this expenditures approval. All in attendance indicated even at the increased price the facilities were excellent, convenient, Better facilities probably were not available. At 09:51 PM 6/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > Probably will be camping out on Saturday nite too. But you never can tell > > about Saturday. > > Come over and I'll buy the frog legs at "that restaurant" on the river - > > and you eat them. > > >Have you heard from any of the other Kolbers or >the guys in Panama City? > >Steven Green should fly down. Have not heard from >him. Gave Steven a ride in the Mark III at Etowah >several years ago.