Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:55 AM - Re: Bernoulli Bunk (kuffel)
2. 03:31 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2003 (ronnie wehba)
3. 04:23 AM - Re: X-country (Dave Rains)
4. 05:02 AM - Re: X-country (ronnie wehba)
5. 06:19 AM - Re: Fine Scale (Larry Cottrell)
6. 07:12 AM - Balance Scale (Richard Pike)
7. 07:13 AM - Re: Uv protection (RFG842@aol.com)
8. 09:03 AM - Re: Fine Scale (Bob N.)
9. 10:00 AM - Re: Fine Scale (Bob Bean)
10. 10:04 AM - Re: Bernoulli Bunk (Bob N.)
11. 12:23 PM - Re: X-country (WillUribe@aol.com)
12. 12:58 PM - Re: Fine Scale (ronnie wehba)
13. 01:00 PM - Re: X-country (ronnie wehba)
14. 01:50 PM - Stupid Question (Mike Pierzina)
15. 02:33 PM - Re: Stupid Question (John Williamson)
16. 08:00 PM - Re: Firestar II banks to the right (HShack@aol.com)
17. 08:12 PM - Re: X-country (DAquaNut@aol.com)
18. 08:18 PM - Re: Firestar II banks to the right (Timandjan@aol.com)
19. 08:40 PM - Re: X-country (Mid-State Sandblasting)
20. 08:49 PM - Re: Firefly Question (DAquaNut@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bernoulli Bunk |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <kuffel@cyberport.net>
Bob N,
Do Not Archive
Oh dear! This is really one of my soap box buttons. Couldn't agree
with you more. You didn't really expect a mass media story to be
accurate did you.
Whenever I get bored at a bi-annual instructor recertification class, I
tweak whoever is spouting the FAA "Word" about lift generation with the
following:
1) Bernoulli is correctly named an EFFECT not a cause.
2) The governing equation is F = ma (Force equals mass times
acceleration). In other words, to generate a given amount of lift
upward a certain amount of mass must be accelerated downward a certain
amount for action-reaction to get into the game.
3) This approach not only explains why certain non-Bernoulli wings work
(such as the flat top/cusp bottom profile) but also why long skinny
wings are more efficient than short fat wings of the same area. The
explanation takes slightly more math than using a B-6 Flight Computer
but not much more:
The formula for kinetic energy is E = 0.5mvv (Energy equals one-half
mass times velocity squared). The definition of acceleration is a
change in velocity (direction and/or speed). Thus the energy consumed
to accelerate a certain mass is proportional to the acceleration
squared. So getting back to F = ma (remember F = ma, this is a message
about F = ma), if you double the mass being accelerated you can halve
the acceleration to get the same force. This reduces the energy
consumed by a factor of 4.
Even better, double the wing span and halve the chord to get the same
area. The amount of mass a wing accelerates downward is almost
proportional to the square of the wing span. Think of the wing as the
center of a flattened oval. This is the air the wing works upon. The
area of this oval and so the mass of the air in the oval is almost
proportional to the square of the wing span. This means the wing is
working on almost 4 times the mass, one quarter the acceleration and
almost one-sixteenth the energy consumed. Now don't get too picky with
me, I agree there are secondary effects which reduce the comparison but
the above is the main situation. Bernoulli never explained a sailplane
wing.
4) And for trivia buffs, the whole reason the Bernoulli Effect got into
the explanation is it could be easily measured in a wind tunnel. A
candidate wing was drilled chordwise with a bunch of tiny holes, each
one with a separate tube leading to one of a bank of manometers. Thus
the Bernoulli Effect pressure changes could be easily and visually
measured across a wing profile.
There now, I feel much better.
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2003 |
ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
thanks don, sure is a purty thing, great job.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2003
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> Well Ronnie....its really all in the shading...before the shading...it
just
> looks like a bunch a crooked stripes.
> (the wife called it a circus curtain...arghhh)....I have lots more pics to
> add to the website...just been awful busy..maybe after OshKosh
>
> If ya saw the website....then you saw how i laid it out first...with
> pinstripe tape and such....when you get it all red and white, you peel it
> all and do the shading with an airbrush...or a small gun that can shoot a
> extra fine pattern at a low rate.
>
> BTW all that paint cost me some weight fer sure....MT shes 299 with
battery
> an brakes and 2.5 gallons a gas.
>
> . DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
> Don Gherardini-
> FireFly 098
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
Where in West Texas are you located?
Dave Rains,
El Paso
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: ronnie wehba [SMTP:rwehba@wtxs.net]
Subject: Kolb-List: X-country
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Thinking about a 240 mile round trip to a fly-in on sept 12 in my cayuna
430 ultrastar, 6 gal gas,several stops!, have been 10-12 miles away from
airport so far, have noticed on landing it does not seem to want to rev
back up very easy??. if I do a go around. my other plane is a minimax with
a ao84 engine 4cyl-4-stroke,,guess I am just having a rough time getting
used to a 2-stroke! any suggestions or comments welcome,ron in still hot
west Texas.
Message 4
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BAYES_30, ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Sweetwater about 400 miles to your east on I-20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Rains" <rr@htg.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: X-country
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
>
> Where in West Texas are you located?
> Dave Rains,
> El Paso
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ronnie wehba [SMTP:rwehba@wtxs.net]
> Sent: None
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: X-country
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> Thinking about a 240 mile round trip to a fly-in on sept 12 in my cayuna
> 430 ultrastar, 6 gal gas,several stops!, have been 10-12 miles away from
> airport so far, have noticed on landing it does not seem to want to rev
> back up very easy??. if I do a go around. my other plane is a minimax with
> a ao84 engine 4cyl-4-stroke,,guess I am just having a rough time getting
> used to a 2-stroke! any suggestions or comments welcome,ron in still hot
> west Texas.
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "kuffel" <kuffel@cyberport.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Fine Scale
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <kuffel@cyberport.net>
>
> Old Poops,
>
> <<Anybody got any suggestions where a scale might be borrowed/used that
> measures that fine?>>
If you are still having problems finding a scale, contact me at my personal
email and I will look up a falconer in your area. Guaranteed that they will
have a gram scale capable of measuring within a tenth of a gram up to five
pounds.
Larry Cottrell
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
For those who were assisting in ideas for a scale to check my piston
weights, I cobbled together a balance beam scale from readily available
stuff laying around the garage that is simple and reliable, and gives good
consistent deviations as you add or remove one AN-3 flat washer to the
weight of the piston. So that ought to be good enough to tell me if the new
one and the old one are about the same.
Thanks for all the good suggestions.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Uv protection |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: RFG842@aol.com
For those of you who are looking into latex paint, here are a couple of sites
to check.
<A HREF="http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/generic34.html">http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/generic34.html
Have been using Sherwin Williams Hi Fill primer which fills the weave of
fibreglas and then spraying a latex final coat. Currently looking for a clear
coat to increase the shine.
Bob - Wichita
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
The digital scale at our FailMail PO weighs in increments of 0.05 oz. In
balancing, you need to be able to ck things for relative wt, so if the
method/device is off a bit, no problem. Just so its accuracy/inaccuracy
is repeatable.
Down at the feed store I weigh 174, nekkid. Don't repeat this!
Bob N. do not archive
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
What are you doin' nekkid at the feed store? You must be another
one o' them thar heatherns! Those feed stores are a good place to
find tie-down materials and other manly devices. -BB do not archive
Bob N. wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
>
>The digital scale at our FailMail PO weighs in increments of 0.05 oz. In
>balancing, you need to be able to ck things for relative wt, so if the
>method/device is off a bit, no problem. Just so its accuracy/inaccuracy
>is repeatable.
>
>Down at the feed store I weigh 174, nekkid. Don't repeat this!
>
>Bob N. do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Bernoulli Bunk |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Re: Tom K.'s tutorial on lift--and the drilling of tiny holes in wings.
Now it can be told, aka The Rest of the Story.
During The Last Great Unpleasantness (WWII) airplanes were flight-tested
by daring Test Pilots, often ending with dire consequences when major
assemblies departed the test article. Despite the combined efforts of
the entire Design Team, the wings came off the new fighters twice,
resulting in last minute bailouts. The Company president offered a large
reward for anyone that came up with a feasible design change that would
stop this trouble. At last the Suggestion Box was opened, and a simple
but inexpensive manufacturing change was found.
At the award ceremony the president asked the recipient to come to the
podium, expecting an engineer with pocket protector and slide rule
hanging from his belt. But no! Comes an old guy in bib overalls, dust
rag in his pocket, thick glasses. Name's Yon Yohnson an' I'm a terlit
cleaner. Well, Mr. Yohnson, The xyz Airplane Company is pleased to give
this award. How did someone like you ever devise this modification? And
maybe you'd be so good as to explain the technical details to our
engineering staff?
Wal, I jes' tol' 'em ta take a real teeny borry-auger an' drill a
straight row o' holes, right crost them wings whar they's connected ta'
th' ma-chine's body.
The prez says This is a most elegant and simple fix, but why does it work?
Wal, werkin' in th' terlits I gotta re-place a lotta TP, an' I noticed
it'd never tear off across them teeny holes.
Bob N. had my retirement in Scott tissue but a diarrhea epidemic came
along an' I was wiped out
do not archive
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Sounds like East Texas to me
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "ronnie wehba" <<A HREF="mailto:rwehba@wtxs.net">rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X-country
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <<A HREF="mailto:rwehba@wtxs.net">rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> Sweetwater about 400 miles to your east on I-20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Rains" <<A HREF="mailto:rr@htg.net">rr@htg.net>
> To: <<A HREF="mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com">kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: X-country
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <<A HREF="mailto:rr@htg.net">rr@htg.net>
> >
> > Where in West Texas are you located?
> > Dave Rains,
> > El Paso
> > do not archive
Message 12
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BAYES_30, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Tie downs and nikked huh ? what you into LOL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bean" <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fine Scale
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> What are you doin' nekkid at the feed store? You must be another
> one o' them thar heatherns! Those feed stores are a good place to
> find tie-down materials and other manly devices. -BB do not archive
>
> Bob N. wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
> >
> >The digital scale at our FailMail PO weighs in increments of 0.05 oz. In
> >balancing, you need to be able to ck things for relative wt, so if the
> >method/device is off a bit, no problem. Just so its accuracy/inaccuracy
> >is repeatable.
> >
> >Down at the feed store I weigh 174, nekkid. Don't repeat this!
> >
> >Bob N. do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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BAYES_10, ORIGINAL_MESSAGE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
nope east Texas is still 600+ the other way!
----- Original Message -----
From: <WillUribe@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X-country
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
>
> Sounds like East Texas to me
>
> Will Uribe
> El Paso, TX
> FireStar II N4GU
> C-172 N2506U
> http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ronnie wehba" <<A
HREF="mailto:rwehba@wtxs.net">rwehba@wtxs.net>
> To: <<A HREF="mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com">kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X-country
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <<A
HREF="mailto:rwehba@wtxs.net">rwehba@wtxs.net>
> >
> > Sweetwater about 400 miles to your east on I-20
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Rains" <<A HREF="mailto:rr@htg.net">rr@htg.net>
> > To: <<A HREF="mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com">kolb-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: X-country
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <<A
HREF="mailto:rr@htg.net">rr@htg.net>
> > >
> > > Where in West Texas are you located?
> > > Dave Rains,
> > > El Paso
> > > do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy@lycos.com>
Hey Guys,
I've got a stupid question....
What's the differance bettween a SLIP indicator and a BANK indicator...
Does one have Fluid and the other DRY ?????
Gotta Fly...Mike
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail!
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stupid Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
A slip indicator indicates the quality of a turn (coordinated flight). No
power required, works off gravity.
A bank indicator shows the amount of turn in a particular direction. Not
angle of bank but rate of turn. It is normally electric driven but some are
vacuum driven.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, N49KK, Jabiru 2200, hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II banks to the right |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
When my friend, Chuck lets his stick go, his FS II banks pretty hard to the
right. Even starting level with full left rudder she still banks to the right.
After careful inspection, we can't see any reason for this.
I believe the fix is to put a trim tab on the ailerons, but where? Should it
be mounted on the bottom of the right aileron & bent down?
Shack
FS II
SC
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
In a message dated 7/24/03 2:02:52 PM Central Standard Time, rwehba@wtxs.net
writes:
<< nope east Texas is still 600+ the other way! >>
Ronnie,
If You go east on I-20 from Sweetwater 600 miles you will be near the other
side of Louisiana. No?
Ed (In Houston)
Do Not Archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II banks to the right |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com
In a message dated 7/24/03 11:01:08 PM, HShack@aol.com writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
>
> When my friend, Chuck lets his stick go, his FS II banks pretty hard to the
> right.=A0 Even starting level with full left rudder she still banks to the
> right.
> After careful inspection, we can't see any reason for this.
>
> I believe the fix is to put a trim tab on the ailerons, but where?=A0 Should
> it
> be mounted on the bottom of the right aileron & bent down?
>
> Shack
> FS II
> SC
>
Does it do this under power or at idle??? P factor causing this????
I ask because all a trim tab on the aileron will do is move the stick. If you
lower one aileron with a trim tab, you raise the other and they equal out,
only moving the stick. A trim tab will just balance each aileron out. A aileron
trim tab does not work like a rudder or elevator trim tab. Really the only way
this could work is to move one up or down by the pushrod, changing the
rigging, but then you mess with the design, affect cruise, pitch etc. Like rigging
wings in a GA plane. But we don't have that option.
My Firestar 2 does this a bit as well, but only under power. At idle, I can
make mine bank either way by leaning my body, once it starts a bank I must use
either rudder or aileron inputs to stop the bank. A true flying airplane.
Tim
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane@rtmc.net>
Hi Ronnie
I mine ended up in tenn. The guy that bought it was very happy with it
He only flew 150s before he bought it. he had no trouble switching to
ultralights.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X-country
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> thanks randy, if i keep it ,it will have a 84 where did yours go?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane@rtmc.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X-country
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mid-State Sandblasting"
<plane@rtmc.net>
> >
> > You would do better flying your mini max to the flying as the cyuna will
> not
> > warn you when it is ready to burn a piston. how do I know this? From
> > coming out of the sky with no airport under me. The cyuna is a ok engine
> > when it is running. but how did it ever get its nick name killer cyuna
> > Put a 084 on that ultrastar and you will have a very good plane
> >
> > Randy in NC No longer flying the soobydoo Sold it and I
> miss
> > it
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message -----
> > From: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kolb-List: X-country
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> > >
> > > Thinking about a 240 mile round trip to a fly-in on sept 12 in my
cayuna
> > 430 ultrastar, 6 gal gas,several stops!, have been 10-12 miles away from
> > airport so far, have noticed on landing it does not seem to want to rev
> back
> > up very easy??. if I do a go around. my other plane is a minimax with a
> ao84
> > engine 4cyl-4-stroke,,guess I am just having a rough time getting used
to
> a
> > 2-stroke! any suggestions or comments welcome,ron in still hot west
Texas.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
Gang,
Anyone have much experience flying a Quicksilver , and then transition to a
firefly or firestar? Just wondering how much difference there is between
them. I have over 100 hours in a Wizard J-3( Very similar to the Quicksilver).
I understand the concept of lots of drag & the slow down fast concept that
is inherent in most all ultralights. The wizard I had , mainly just mushed,
And you would feel a slight buffeting first then it would drop the nose a
little and resume flying again . Ive heard some on this list say that the Kolbs
gave no warning at all before a stall. To me that is not a good thing.
Ed (in Houston)
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