Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:30 AM - Re: order (Larry Bourne)
2. 09:11 AM - Too much clearance to boom tube? (Jim Gerken)
3. 09:56 AM - Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? (Bob Bean)
4. 11:11 AM - Beemr Update please (Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious)
5. 11:45 AM - Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
6. 12:17 PM - Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? (John Hauck)
7. 12:28 PM - Rotax lighting coil (Jim and Phyllis Hefner)
8. 01:53 PM - FireFly 1st Flight (Don Gherardini)
9. 04:13 PM - Re: FireFly 1st Flight (Jim Clayton)
10. 06:17 PM - Re: 447 regulator (GeoR38@aol.com)
11. 06:31 PM - Re: Rotax lighting coil (jerb)
12. 06:39 PM - Book Binding Tape - Another Alternative (jerb)
13. 06:57 PM - Re: Rotax lighting coil (jerb)
14. 07:21 PM - Getting there ()
15. 08:03 PM - Re: Rotax lighting coil (Jack & Louise Hart)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Good on you ! ! ! The Kolbra is a good 'un...............I was very
impressed with John Williamson's. If you go with the VW, listen to Poppa
Rick and Unca Lar, and put a re-drive on it. Pretty puny without; very
good with. My engine, complete with forged steel, counterweighted crank and
all the good goodies, cost right around $2500.00. Add that much more for
the drive, and you're still less than 1/2 the price of the 912. Even with
all the electronics on Vamoose, I'm still way under. I'm a little
baffled tho'...............weren't you building the Harley engine ?? Sure
sounded like a winner when you were working on it. What happened ?? Don't
let the nay-sayers get ya down.................Go Gittum ! ! !
Big Lar in Port Royal, South Carolina.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: order
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> Been a while since I've posted a remark. Fact is I've been waiting on the
money from the sale of the Harley. Well it comes in tomorrow and I spoke to
Linda at TNK factory and signed the release forms and are going to send them
the check for my very own Kolb. Finally decided on the King Kolbra! Going
with a VW for first engine. So if any care to share thoughts on that fire
for effect!
>
> Later
> pp
> do not archive
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Too much clearance to boom tube? |
08/15/2003 11:07:34 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
<NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>Paul
>Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to
John
>Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super
flying
>airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to
>install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you
>will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine
>mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is
mounted
>over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much
>higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the
>prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop.
This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have
read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in
cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust
would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask because
I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW
r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is welcome.
Thanks!
Jim Gerken
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Jim, keep it as low as possible, not sure what a safe min. would be though.
I have about three inches clearance with a (formerly) 70" prop that has
had maybe 1/8 trimmed off the tips just to keep it uniform. I'd take the
beneficial effects of a lower thrust line to the questionable benefits of
clean air. Of course opinions do vary on this forum, and it's a good
thing too. -BB, balloon ride was wonderful, over the falls at Letchworth
and skimming through the treetops. do not archive
Jim Gerken wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
>>
>>
><NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
>
>
>>Paul
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to
>>
>>
>John
>
>
>>Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super
>>
>>
>flying
>
>
>>airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to
>>install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you
>>will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine
>>mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is
>>
>>
>mounted
>
>
>>over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much
>>higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the
>>prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop.
>>
>>
>
>This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have
>read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in
>cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust
>would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask because
>I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW
>r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is welcome.
>Thanks!
>
>Jim Gerken
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Beemr Update please |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" <bbrocious@hotmail.com>
Jim, how about an update on your BMW progress?
do not archive
>From: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube?
>Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:54:40 -0500 08/15/2003 11:07:34 AM
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>
>
> >From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
> >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
><NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> >Paul
>
> >Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to
>John
> >Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super
>flying
> >airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to
> >install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you
> >will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine
> >mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is
>mounted
> >over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much
> >higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the
> >prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop.
>
>This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have
>read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in
>cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust
>would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask because
>I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW
>r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is welcome.
>Thanks!
>
>Jim Gerken
>
>
Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious
Tenacity Farm
Campbellsburg, Kentucky
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
You can't have too much clearance (I only meant to use clearance as a
reference point) but you can have too high a thrust line. It is much more
than just a pitch change. With full power and lower speeds, too high a
thrust line will overpower the elevator and not allow you to climb. I go
over and over it in my head if I land with flaps and I have to go around I
MUST raise the flaps first before adding power or the high thrust line will
drive me into the ground. Now the thrust of the BMW may not be as much of a
problem since you are only turning a 66-68" prop. My 2180cc redrive VW
swinging a three bladed 72" F Powerfin has a really large impact on pitch.
Generally speaking, the lower the thrust line you can get the better these
(non ultra star) Kolbs will handle.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Gerken" <gerken@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>
>
> >From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
> >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
> <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> >Paul
>
> >Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to
> John
> >Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super
> flying
> >airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to
> >install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you
> >will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine
> >mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is
> mounted
> >over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much
> >higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the
> >prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop.
>
> This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have
> read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in
> cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust
> would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask
because
> I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW
> r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is
welcome.
> Thanks!
>
> Jim Gerken
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Generally speaking, the lower the thrust line you can get the better these
> (non ultra star) Kolbs will handle.
>
> Rick Neilsen
Rick/All:
I agree. And include perform. Increased thrust
on my MK III and a 72 inch 3 blade Warp Drive prop
caused me concern on my initial takeoffs during
testing of the new 912S engine.
I cut the 72" prop down to 70" and still can get
into a situation, especially noticeable on
pavement, where the airplane wants to stick to the
pavement during early stages of takeoff. At these
speeds with an inch or so lower thrust line and 80
hp, I did not encounter this quirk.
When time comes for new engine mounts, the 912S
will be lowered to within 3/4 to 1" of the
tailboom, engine off. It makes that much
difference.
Imagine a long handle attached perpendicular to
the tail boom, and you have a picture of what is
happening when you pour on the coal. Thrust is
trying to push the nose down and pull the tail up.
Another good example of high thrust line degrading
performance is an inside loop with an original
Firestar. Full power loops were more difficult
than partial power. Pulling the nose up into a
loop after accelerating through a dive sacrifices
a lot of airspeed at WOT. Come back on the power
and she will go up and over the top with no
problem. BEWARE: My airplanes don't fly like
this since I wore out the wings of the Firestar
13+ years ago.
john h
Message 7
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| Subject: | Rotax lighting coil |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim and Phyllis Hefner" <hefners_tucson@hotmail.com>
Bruce, all
I've got 150hrs on my Key West, which is driving 2 self contained strobes, an elec
fuel pump, 2 20w landing lightsand a bunch of instruments and have never had
the first problem, so you must have gotten a lemon or had a wiring problem...
haven't heard of other problems with them... probably should search the archives
before concluding we all should steer clear of them... did you have a fuse
installed? ....shouldn't have burned out your lighting coil.... I have a 15a
fuse on mine.
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
FF#022 Rotax 447, IVO 66" 2-blade, BRS-750, 150hrs TT (105 -my hrs)
-- Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce McElhoe" <A target=_top href="http://lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F000000001a=e084d4bda659a76f0afdbab4f3703f23mailto=1to=mcelhoe@cvip.netmsg=MSG1060931500.28start=2478979len=21300src=type=x">mcelhoe@cvip.net
Hello,
Does anyone know where I can get a used lighting coil for my Rotax 447?
This disappointing search is made necessary by a Key West Control regulator that
failed and burned out my lighting coil. The Key West regulator is a shunt-type
regulator that reduces the output voltage by drawing so much current that
it pulls down the voltage from the coil. Well, my regulator overheated, turned
black, shorted internally, then drew so much current from the lighting coil
that it fried the coil too.
I suggest we stear clear of Key West regulators....a new lighting coil costs
$340...too
expensive to take the risk.
My FireFly was really smokin'!
Bruce McElhoe FireFly #88 12 hrs TT
Reedley, California
Message 8
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| Subject: | FireFly 1st Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Here is a Link to a few pics I posted on page 13 of my builders web-site...I
have 8 takeoffs and landings on her now...I'm heading out to the Airpark
this evening for some more ...cant seem to get enough all of a sudden!
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/mission_accomplished.htm
Don Gherardini
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly 1st Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
Hi Don,
Your firefly looks great. Glad it is flying so well.
You remind the rest of the builders what we are
working toward!
-Jim
Jim Clayton
California
Mark-3X, waiting for Kit#1
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf
Of Don Gherardini
Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly 1st Flight
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini"
<donghe@one-eleven.net>
Here is a Link to a few pics I posted on page 13 of my
builders web-site...I
have 8 takeoffs and landings on her now...I'm heading
out to the Airpark
this evening for some more ...cant seem to get enough
all of a sudden!
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/mission_accomplished.htm
Don Gherardini
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 447 regulator |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 8/10/03 6:23:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, snuffy@usol.com
writes:
>
> Group,
> Solved my regulator problem. Regulator was ok but is the type that needs a
> load to regulate. I have no battery and the only thing for a load was the
> hobbs meter. Not enough load so I added a 25 ohm 20 watt load resistor and
> wazzoo! All working ok now. Thanks for the help all..........Kirk
>
> Do not archive
>
sounds right to me, even though I don't have a regulator on ol "By George"
Firestar KX, but the electrical engineer in me recognizes that you have a
"sinking" type regulator that must have a load sufficient to draw enough current
to
enable it to sink the current to enable a regulated voltage to be felt across
the "load"...which you didn't have originally. Another person asked which
regulator is the best one....the newest technology is the "chopper" type
regulator which does not require a minimum load to maintain its proper regulated
output...and it doesn't have to have a lot of current "wasted" or "sunk" in order
to regulate, there for the chopper is more efficient and uses less wattage to
function. I suppose, however, that being the newer type, they are more
expensive than the older style, less efficient, sinking type.
I put a voltmeter on my unregulated leads a long time ago and it was
proportional to the rpm and wasn't anywhere NEAR the advertised 12 volt ouput,
it was
more like 100 or more as I recall.Any power supply that has to regulate all
the way from 100 volts clear down to 12 has a major "sinking" problem for light
loads and gets very hot compared to one that only has to go from 15 to
12volts. Therefore, it makes sense to me that the best regulator for the 447 which
I
have , would be the newer chopper, or non sinking type.
George Randolph
Firestar driver from Akron...soon to be The Villages....Fla
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax lighting coil |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Let's take a market survey. I had suggested to Mr. Kuntzleman the strobe
manufacturer that he seriously consider producing a voltage regulator that
puts out more than the 1-3 amps most others do with exception of the Key
West which can source 10 amps. He suggested his hot box which has the same
3 amp capacity limit. Haven't heard a thing about it since.
So how many would purchase a regulator that could handle 10 amps and what
would you be willing to pay. Understand that it would likely require a
switching supply versus a analog linear design. This might push the unit
cost up a little more than the Key West. Another product I was considering
would be light weight aluminum wrench sized to fix the nut on the IVO quick
adjustment mechanism. Being small and light they would be good to carry
with you. Any one interested?
jerb
At 09:11 AM 8/14/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce McElhoe" <mcelhoe@cvip.net>
>
>Hello,
>
>Does anyone know where I can get a used lighting coil for my Rotax 447?
>
>This disappointing search is made necessary by a Key West Control
>regulator that failed and burned out my lighting coil. The Key West
>regulator is a shunt-type regulator that reduces the output voltage by
>drawing so much current that it pulls down the voltage from the
>coil. Well, my regulator overheated, turned black, shorted internally,
>then drew so much current from the lighting coil that it fried the coil too.
>
>I suggest we stear clear of Key West regulators....a new lighting coil
>costs $340...too expensive to take the risk.
>
>My FireFly was really smokin'!
>
>Bruce McElhoe FireFly #88 12 hrs TT
>Reedley, California
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Book Binding Tape - Another Alternative |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Folks,
Below is message posted on the UL list. It provides information about an
alternative UV resistant tape that maybe an alterative to the book binding
tape for use on Kolb control surface gap seals.
jerb
>X-Sender: ken.kennedy@sympatico.ca
>X-Apparently-To: fly-ul@yahoogroups.com
>Organization: RCAF RETIRED
>From: Ken Kennedy <ken.kennedy@sympatico.ca>
>
>While on the subject of Lazairs, this is to remind Canadian Ullies to
>attend the UPAC AGM this weekend, where Lazairs will be featured. You
>will be able to recognize me by my Fly-UL Tshirt and the BIG smile
>caused by the arrival of my very first grandchild yesterday morning
>(BOY! both are fine). If all goes well, I will be arriving in a two seat
>Carrera and camping overnight.
>
><<http://www.upac.ca/>http://www.upac.ca/>
>
>I don't know much about Lazairs and Tedlar, however I seem to recall
>that tape deterioration was/(is?) a problem. I just received my July Lee
>Valley Gardening Tools catalog. In it, they hype their UV Resistant Clear
>Tape. FMI;
>
><<http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp>http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp>,
>jump to item# PM215
>
> From the website;
>
>"UV-Resistant Tape PM215 C$6.50 U$4.75"
>
>"This is an excellent transparent tape for outdoor use."
>"Made from UV-resistant plastic and UV-resistant acrylic adhesive, it
>won't break down in the sunlight and is perfect for patching greenhouse
>plastic (it's waterproof and will outlast the greenhouse plastic
>itself), taping windows or bundling products for outdoor storage."
>
>"Unlike most other tapes, the adhesive will not come off the tape and
>stick to bundled items even when left outdoors in full sunlight for a
>year or more."
>
>"2" x 100' roll. Although it looks green in the roll it is virtually
>clear when applied."
>
>PER ARDUA AD ASTRA
>
>
>UV-Resistant Tape
>PM215 $ 6.50
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax lighting coil |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Jim, & All
Which side is your fuse, the lighting coil side of the regulator or the DC
output side?
I have one plane with 150 hours and another with 105. No problems so
far. There are a large number of these units in use and I haven't seen any
track record to indicate there is a problem. I would prefer an active
regulator but need something that can handle more than the 1-3 amps typical
of the others models on the market. The reason I desire the active
regulator is the shunt regulator places a large load upon the engine all
the time while the active would only load the engine by the amount of
electrical power being demanded. It's like driving your car while riding
the brake pedal. I am running a radio, GPS, EIS, dual head strobes, and
(2) 35W driving lights on a wig-wag flasher (a neat little device) as
recognition lights.
jerb
At 12:27 PM 8/15/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim and Phyllis Hefner"
><hefners_tucson@hotmail.com>
>
>Bruce, all
>
>I've got 150hrs on my Key West, which is driving 2 self contained strobes,
>an elec fuel pump, 2 20w landing lightsand a bunch of instruments and have
>never had the first problem, so you must have gotten a lemon or had a
>wiring problem... haven't heard of other problems with them... probably
>should search the archives before concluding we all should steer clear of
>them... did you have a fuse installed? ....shouldn't have burned out your
>lighting coil.... I have a 15a fuse on mine.
>
>Jim Hefner
>Tucson, AZ
>FF#022 Rotax 447, IVO 66" 2-blade, BRS-750, 150hrs TT (105 -my hrs)
>
>-- Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce McElhoe" <A target=_top
>href="http://lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F000000001a=e084d4bda659a76f0afdbab4f3703f23mailto=1to=mcelhoe@cvip.netmsg=MSG1060931500.28start=2478979len=21300src=type=x">mcelhoe@cvip.net
>
>Hello,
>
>Does anyone know where I can get a used lighting coil for my Rotax 447?
>
>This disappointing search is made necessary by a Key West Control
>regulator that
>failed and burned out my lighting coil. The Key West regulator is a shunt-type
>regulator that reduces the output voltage by drawing so much current that
>it pulls down the voltage from the coil. Well, my regulator overheated, turned
>black, shorted internally, then drew so much current from the lighting coil
>that it fried the coil too.
>
>I suggest we stear clear of Key West regulators....a new lighting coil costs
>$340...too
>expensive to take the risk.
>
>My FireFly was really smokin'!
>
>Bruce McElhoe FireFly #88 12 hrs TT
>Reedley, California
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Kolbers,
After being ground bound for two weeks by weather and chores, I got a chance to
fly my Mk-3 again tonight. The latest prop and carb adjustments have it closer
to where I want it.
I put .8 hours on her and actually left the pattern and flew over to my neighborhood
to show it off. My friend Don Stroble christened my airstrip by being the
first to land here. I got a nice surprise when I flew over and saw him in
my old Pterodactyl setting in the middle of the strip with my family gathered
around it. I am not yet ready to land the Kolb in such a tight spot so I just
circled and than flew over to some friends houses and put on a little airshow
for them. Had two more landings that were just the way I like em and than called
it a day. All in all it was a very satisfying flight.
Denny Rowe
Mk-3 N616DR, 2SI 690L-70, 8.3hrs, Western PA
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax lighting coil |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 09:01 PM 8/15/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
>Jim, & All
>Which side is your fuse, the lighting coil side of the regulator or the DC
>output side?
>
Jerb,
To save the lighting coil, the fuse needs to be placed on the lighting coil side
of the regulator.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
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