---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/15/03: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:30 AM - Re: order (Larry Bourne) 2. 09:11 AM - Too much clearance to boom tube? (Jim Gerken) 3. 09:56 AM - Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? (Bob Bean) 4. 11:11 AM - Beemr Update please (Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious) 5. 11:45 AM - Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 6. 12:17 PM - Re: Too much clearance to boom tube? (John Hauck) 7. 12:28 PM - Rotax lighting coil (Jim and Phyllis Hefner) 8. 01:53 PM - FireFly 1st Flight (Don Gherardini) 9. 04:13 PM - Re: FireFly 1st Flight (Jim Clayton) 10. 06:17 PM - Re: 447 regulator (GeoR38@aol.com) 11. 06:31 PM - Re: Rotax lighting coil (jerb) 12. 06:39 PM - Book Binding Tape - Another Alternative (jerb) 13. 06:57 PM - Re: Rotax lighting coil (jerb) 14. 07:21 PM - Getting there () 15. 08:03 PM - Re: Rotax lighting coil (Jack & Louise Hart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:40 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Good on you ! ! ! The Kolbra is a good 'un...............I was very impressed with John Williamson's. If you go with the VW, listen to Poppa Rick and Unca Lar, and put a re-drive on it. Pretty puny without; very good with. My engine, complete with forged steel, counterweighted crank and all the good goodies, cost right around $2500.00. Add that much more for the drive, and you're still less than 1/2 the price of the 912. Even with all the electronics on Vamoose, I'm still way under. I'm a little baffled tho'...............weren't you building the Harley engine ?? Sure sounded like a winner when you were working on it. What happened ?? Don't let the nay-sayers get ya down.................Go Gittum ! ! ! Big Lar in Port Royal, South Carolina. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: order > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Hi Kolbers, > Been a while since I've posted a remark. Fact is I've been waiting on the money from the sale of the Harley. Well it comes in tomorrow and I spoke to Linda at TNK factory and signed the release forms and are going to send them the check for my very own Kolb. Finally decided on the King Kolbra! Going with a VW for first engine. So if any care to share thoughts on that fire for effect! > > Later > pp > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:23 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube? From: Jim Gerken 08/15/2003 11:07:34 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken >From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >Paul >Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to John >Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super flying >airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to >install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you >will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine >mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is mounted >over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much >higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the >prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop. This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask because I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is welcome. Thanks! Jim Gerken ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:25 AM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean Jim, keep it as low as possible, not sure what a safe min. would be though. I have about three inches clearance with a (formerly) 70" prop that has had maybe 1/8 trimmed off the tips just to keep it uniform. I'd take the beneficial effects of a lower thrust line to the questionable benefits of clean air. Of course opinions do vary on this forum, and it's a good thing too. -BB, balloon ride was wonderful, over the falls at Letchworth and skimming through the treetops. do not archive Jim Gerken wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken > > > > >>From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order >> >> > > > >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" >> >> > > > > >>Paul >> >> > > > >>Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to >> >> >John > > >>Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super >> >> >flying > > >>airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to >>install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you >>will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine >>mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is >> >> >mounted > > >>over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much >>higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the >>prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop. >> >> > >This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have >read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in >cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust >would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask because >I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW >r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is welcome. >Thanks! > >Jim Gerken > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:34 AM PST US From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Subject: Kolb-List: Beemr Update please --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" Jim, how about an update on your BMW progress? do not archive >From: Jim Gerken >Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube? >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:54:40 -0500 08/15/2003 11:07:34 AM > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken > > > >From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > > >Paul > > >Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to >John > >Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super >flying > >airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to > >install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you > >will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine > >mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is >mounted > >over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much > >higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the > >prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop. > >This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have >read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in >cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust >would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask because >I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW >r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is welcome. >Thanks! > >Jim Gerken > > Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious Tenacity Farm Campbellsburg, Kentucky ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:14 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" You can't have too much clearance (I only meant to use clearance as a reference point) but you can have too high a thrust line. It is much more than just a pitch change. With full power and lower speeds, too high a thrust line will overpower the elevator and not allow you to climb. I go over and over it in my head if I land with flaps and I have to go around I MUST raise the flaps first before adding power or the high thrust line will drive me into the ground. Now the thrust of the BMW may not be as much of a problem since you are only turning a 66-68" prop. My 2180cc redrive VW swinging a three bladed 72" F Powerfin has a really large impact on pitch. Generally speaking, the lower the thrust line you can get the better these (non ultra star) Kolbs will handle. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Gerken" Subject: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube? > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken > > > >From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: order > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > > >Paul > > >Good choice. I haven't flown a Kolbra but I had a chance to fly next to > John > >Williamson's super Kolbra into Oshkosh. It appears to be a fast super > flying > >airplane. I will be available at any point to assist in your quest to > >install a VW on that bird. The first thing I will need to say is that you > >will be much happier with the completed airplane if you modify the engine > >mount to allow the VW engine to mounted lower. My VW on my MKIII is > mounted > >over the stock Rotax mount on the cage. This causes the prop to be much > >higher than ideal. I currently have seven inches of clearance between the > >prop and the boom tube with my 72 inch prop. > > This caught my attention. What is wrong with too much clearance? I have > read between the lines that the Kolbs with higher props are running in > cleaner air, and so gain some efficiency. I understand that the thrust > would also cause a pitch change. Is there any other reason? I ask because > I am at the stage of determining the overall height of my new setup; BMW > r100/"C"box/66"or 68"Powerfin on Kolb Mkiii. Any and all input is welcome. > Thanks! > > Jim Gerken > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:22 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Too much clearance to boom tube? --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Generally speaking, the lower the thrust line you can get the better these > (non ultra star) Kolbs will handle. > > Rick Neilsen Rick/All: I agree. And include perform. Increased thrust on my MK III and a 72 inch 3 blade Warp Drive prop caused me concern on my initial takeoffs during testing of the new 912S engine. I cut the 72" prop down to 70" and still can get into a situation, especially noticeable on pavement, where the airplane wants to stick to the pavement during early stages of takeoff. At these speeds with an inch or so lower thrust line and 80 hp, I did not encounter this quirk. When time comes for new engine mounts, the 912S will be lowered to within 3/4 to 1" of the tailboom, engine off. It makes that much difference. Imagine a long handle attached perpendicular to the tail boom, and you have a picture of what is happening when you pour on the coal. Thrust is trying to push the nose down and pull the tail up. Another good example of high thrust line degrading performance is an inside loop with an original Firestar. Full power loops were more difficult than partial power. Pulling the nose up into a loop after accelerating through a dive sacrifices a lot of airspeed at WOT. Come back on the power and she will go up and over the top with no problem. BEWARE: My airplanes don't fly like this since I wore out the wings of the Firestar 13+ years ago. john h ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:02 PM PST US From: "Jim and Phyllis Hefner" Subject: Kolb-List: Rotax lighting coil --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim and Phyllis Hefner" Bruce, all I've got 150hrs on my Key West, which is driving 2 self contained strobes, an elec fuel pump, 2 20w landing lightsand a bunch of instruments and have never had the first problem, so you must have gotten a lemon or had a wiring problem... haven't heard of other problems with them... probably should search the archives before concluding we all should steer clear of them... did you have a fuse installed? ....shouldn't have burned out your lighting coil.... I have a 15a fuse on mine. Jim Hefner Tucson, AZ FF#022 Rotax 447, IVO 66" 2-blade, BRS-750, 150hrs TT (105 -my hrs) -- Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce McElhoe" mcelhoe@cvip.net Hello, Does anyone know where I can get a used lighting coil for my Rotax 447? This disappointing search is made necessary by a Key West Control regulator that failed and burned out my lighting coil. The Key West regulator is a shunt-type regulator that reduces the output voltage by drawing so much current that it pulls down the voltage from the coil. Well, my regulator overheated, turned black, shorted internally, then drew so much current from the lighting coil that it fried the coil too. I suggest we stear clear of Key West regulators....a new lighting coil costs $340...too expensive to take the risk. My FireFly was really smokin'! Bruce McElhoe FireFly #88 12 hrs TT Reedley, California ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:26 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly 1st Flight --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Here is a Link to a few pics I posted on page 13 of my builders web-site...I have 8 takeoffs and landings on her now...I'm heading out to the Airpark this evening for some more ...cant seem to get enough all of a sudden! http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/mission_accomplished.htm Don Gherardini do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:52 PM PST US From: Jim Clayton Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly 1st Flight --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton Hi Don, Your firefly looks great. Glad it is flying so well. You remind the rest of the builders what we are working toward! -Jim Jim Clayton California Mark-3X, waiting for Kit#1 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Gherardini Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly 1st Flight --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Here is a Link to a few pics I posted on page 13 of my builders web-site...I have 8 takeoffs and landings on her now...I'm heading out to the Airpark this evening for some more ...cant seem to get enough all of a sudden! http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/mission_accomplished.htm Don Gherardini do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:39 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 447 regulator --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com In a message dated 8/10/03 6:23:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, snuffy@usol.com writes: > > Group, > Solved my regulator problem. Regulator was ok but is the type that needs a > load to regulate. I have no battery and the only thing for a load was the > hobbs meter. Not enough load so I added a 25 ohm 20 watt load resistor and > wazzoo! All working ok now. Thanks for the help all..........Kirk > > Do not archive > sounds right to me, even though I don't have a regulator on ol "By George" Firestar KX, but the electrical engineer in me recognizes that you have a "sinking" type regulator that must have a load sufficient to draw enough current to enable it to sink the current to enable a regulated voltage to be felt across the "load"...which you didn't have originally. Another person asked which regulator is the best one....the newest technology is the "chopper" type regulator which does not require a minimum load to maintain its proper regulated output...and it doesn't have to have a lot of current "wasted" or "sunk" in order to regulate, there for the chopper is more efficient and uses less wattage to function. I suppose, however, that being the newer type, they are more expensive than the older style, less efficient, sinking type. I put a voltmeter on my unregulated leads a long time ago and it was proportional to the rpm and wasn't anywhere NEAR the advertised 12 volt ouput, it was more like 100 or more as I recall.Any power supply that has to regulate all the way from 100 volts clear down to 12 has a major "sinking" problem for light loads and gets very hot compared to one that only has to go from 15 to 12volts. Therefore, it makes sense to me that the best regulator for the 447 which I have , would be the newer chopper, or non sinking type. George Randolph Firestar driver from Akron...soon to be The Villages....Fla ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:54 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax lighting coil --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Let's take a market survey. I had suggested to Mr. Kuntzleman the strobe manufacturer that he seriously consider producing a voltage regulator that puts out more than the 1-3 amps most others do with exception of the Key West which can source 10 amps. He suggested his hot box which has the same 3 amp capacity limit. Haven't heard a thing about it since. So how many would purchase a regulator that could handle 10 amps and what would you be willing to pay. Understand that it would likely require a switching supply versus a analog linear design. This might push the unit cost up a little more than the Key West. Another product I was considering would be light weight aluminum wrench sized to fix the nut on the IVO quick adjustment mechanism. Being small and light they would be good to carry with you. Any one interested? jerb At 09:11 AM 8/14/03 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce McElhoe" > >Hello, > >Does anyone know where I can get a used lighting coil for my Rotax 447? > >This disappointing search is made necessary by a Key West Control >regulator that failed and burned out my lighting coil. The Key West >regulator is a shunt-type regulator that reduces the output voltage by >drawing so much current that it pulls down the voltage from the >coil. Well, my regulator overheated, turned black, shorted internally, >then drew so much current from the lighting coil that it fried the coil too. > >I suggest we stear clear of Key West regulators....a new lighting coil >costs $340...too expensive to take the risk. > >My FireFly was really smokin'! > >Bruce McElhoe FireFly #88 12 hrs TT >Reedley, California > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:19 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Kolb-List: Book Binding Tape - Another Alternative --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Folks, Below is message posted on the UL list. It provides information about an alternative UV resistant tape that maybe an alterative to the book binding tape for use on Kolb control surface gap seals. jerb >X-Sender: ken.kennedy@sympatico.ca >X-Apparently-To: fly-ul@yahoogroups.com >Organization: RCAF RETIRED >From: Ken Kennedy > >While on the subject of Lazairs, this is to remind Canadian Ullies to >attend the UPAC AGM this weekend, where Lazairs will be featured. You >will be able to recognize me by my Fly-UL Tshirt and the BIG smile >caused by the arrival of my very first grandchild yesterday morning >(BOY! both are fine). If all goes well, I will be arriving in a two seat >Carrera and camping overnight. > ><http://www.upac.ca/> > >I don't know much about Lazairs and Tedlar, however I seem to recall >that tape deterioration was/(is?) a problem. I just received my July Lee >Valley Gardening Tools catalog. In it, they hype their UV Resistant Clear >Tape. FMI; > ><http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp>, >jump to item# PM215 > > From the website; > >"UV-Resistant Tape PM215 C$6.50 U$4.75" > >"This is an excellent transparent tape for outdoor use." >"Made from UV-resistant plastic and UV-resistant acrylic adhesive, it >won't break down in the sunlight and is perfect for patching greenhouse >plastic (it's waterproof and will outlast the greenhouse plastic >itself), taping windows or bundling products for outdoor storage." > >"Unlike most other tapes, the adhesive will not come off the tape and >stick to bundled items even when left outdoors in full sunlight for a >year or more." > >"2" x 100' roll. Although it looks green in the roll it is virtually >clear when applied." > >PER ARDUA AD ASTRA > > >UV-Resistant Tape >PM215 $ 6.50 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:57 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax lighting coil --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Jim, & All Which side is your fuse, the lighting coil side of the regulator or the DC output side? I have one plane with 150 hours and another with 105. No problems so far. There are a large number of these units in use and I haven't seen any track record to indicate there is a problem. I would prefer an active regulator but need something that can handle more than the 1-3 amps typical of the others models on the market. The reason I desire the active regulator is the shunt regulator places a large load upon the engine all the time while the active would only load the engine by the amount of electrical power being demanded. It's like driving your car while riding the brake pedal. I am running a radio, GPS, EIS, dual head strobes, and (2) 35W driving lights on a wig-wag flasher (a neat little device) as recognition lights. jerb At 12:27 PM 8/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim and Phyllis Hefner" > > >Bruce, all > >I've got 150hrs on my Key West, which is driving 2 self contained strobes, >an elec fuel pump, 2 20w landing lightsand a bunch of instruments and have >never had the first problem, so you must have gotten a lemon or had a >wiring problem... haven't heard of other problems with them... probably >should search the archives before concluding we all should steer clear of >them... did you have a fuse installed? ....shouldn't have burned out your >lighting coil.... I have a 15a fuse on mine. > >Jim Hefner >Tucson, AZ >FF#022 Rotax 447, IVO 66" 2-blade, BRS-750, 150hrs TT (105 -my hrs) > >-- Kolb-List message posted by: "Bruce McElhoe" href="http://lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F000000001a=e084d4bda659a76f0afdbab4f3703f23mailto=1to=mcelhoe@cvip.netmsg=MSG1060931500.28start=2478979len=21300src=type=x">mcelhoe@cvip.net > >Hello, > >Does anyone know where I can get a used lighting coil for my Rotax 447? > >This disappointing search is made necessary by a Key West Control >regulator that >failed and burned out my lighting coil. The Key West regulator is a shunt-type >regulator that reduces the output voltage by drawing so much current that >it pulls down the voltage from the coil. Well, my regulator overheated, turned >black, shorted internally, then drew so much current from the lighting coil >that it fried the coil too. > >I suggest we stear clear of Key West regulators....a new lighting coil costs >$340...too >expensive to take the risk. > >My FireFly was really smokin'! > >Bruce McElhoe FireFly #88 12 hrs TT >Reedley, California > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:17 PM PST US From: Subject: Kolb-List: Getting there --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kolbers, After being ground bound for two weeks by weather and chores, I got a chance to fly my Mk-3 again tonight. The latest prop and carb adjustments have it closer to where I want it. I put .8 hours on her and actually left the pattern and flew over to my neighborhood to show it off. My friend Don Stroble christened my airstrip by being the first to land here. I got a nice surprise when I flew over and saw him in my old Pterodactyl setting in the middle of the strip with my family gathered around it. I am not yet ready to land the Kolb in such a tight spot so I just circled and than flew over to some friends houses and put on a little airshow for them. Had two more landings that were just the way I like em and than called it a day. All in all it was a very satisfying flight. Denny Rowe Mk-3 N616DR, 2SI 690L-70, 8.3hrs, Western PA ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:24 PM PST US From: Jack & Louise Hart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax lighting coil --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart At 09:01 PM 8/15/03 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > >Jim, & All >Which side is your fuse, the lighting coil side of the regulator or the DC >output side? > Jerb, To save the lighting coil, the fuse needs to be placed on the lighting coil side of the regulator. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart@ldd.net