Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:36 AM - Re: speaking of Vortex generators..WOW (Bob Bean)
2. 04:36 AM - Bob's blackout pics (dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford))
3. 05:30 AM - Re: Blackout (Richard Pike)
4. 06:29 AM - Propellors (Ed Bonsell)
5. 06:30 AM - EVO/Air update (Paul Petty)
6. 06:56 AM - Re: EVO/Air update (Kirk Smith)
7. 07:03 AM - weight (Paul Petty)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: Belt sander specs. (jerb)
9. 07:21 AM - Re: Propellors (Bob Bean)
10. 07:34 AM - Re: speaking of Vortex generators..WOW (jerb)
11. 07:40 AM - Re: Propeller Diameter (WillUribe@aol.com)
12. 07:47 AM - Re: Propellors (WillUribe@aol.com)
13. 07:51 AM - Re: props (jerb)
14. 07:56 AM - Re: think (jerb)
15. 07:59 AM - Re: Propellors (John Cooley)
16. 08:03 AM - Re: props (jerb)
17. 08:04 AM - Re: props (John Cooley)
18. 08:13 AM - Re: props (WillUribe@aol.com)
19. 08:16 AM - Re: Big Day (WillUribe@aol.com)
20. 08:35 AM - Flaps (Paul Petty)
21. 09:05 AM - Re: props (Kirk Smith)
22. 09:13 AM - Re: Vortex Generators (HShack@aol.com)
23. 09:17 AM - Re: props (HShack@aol.com)
24. 09:17 AM - Re: props (jerb)
25. 10:16 AM - IVO clear tape (Richard Pike)
26. 10:25 AM - Re: Blackout aka Too Black, Way Out (Bob N.)
27. 11:24 AM - Wood Props (Lawrence M. Rice)
28. 12:07 PM - Re: Wood Props (ul15rhb@juno.com)
29. 01:04 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Larry Cottrell)
30. 02:40 PM - Re: Trip (Larry Bourne)
31. 02:40 PM - Re: Big Day (Larry Bourne)
32. 02:40 PM - Re: Belt sander specs. (Larry Bourne)
33. 04:02 PM - Re: IVO clear tape (Bob Bean)
34. 04:43 PM - Re: think (bryan green)
35. 05:58 PM - Re: EAA Easter Coast Regional Flying (T. K. Frantz)
36. 07:12 PM - Re: Trip (WillUribe@aol.com)
37. 07:14 PM - Re: IVO clear tape (WillUribe@aol.com)
38. 07:25 PM - Re: Propellors Bonsell (FlyColt45@aol.com)
39. 07:48 PM - The Kolb flyin (Timandjan@aol.com)
40. 08:35 PM - uncle craig (CRAIG M NELSON)
41. 08:48 PM - Re: Trip (DAquaNut@aol.com)
42. 09:01 PM - Re: IVO clear tape (jerb)
43. 09:09 PM - The annual WACO Celebration and Reunion (WillUribe@aol.com)
44. 09:34 PM - Re: uncle craig (jerb)
45. 10:08 PM - Re: EAA Easter Coast Regional Flying (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of Vortex generators..WOW |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Don, I would like to see your slo-motion landings into a 15 mph breeze.
All you need is a long driveway...BB do not archive
Don Gherardini wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
>Well, Im so dang suprised, I cant hardly tell youall....some of you in fact
>you likely think ive fell off the deep end....but...here goes
>
>FireFly....UL2-OII Cuyuna...3 blade 60 Inch warp....6200rpms wot...
>
>loaded to gross , actually 2 lbs over at 502
>PRIOR Stall tests
>stall with 5000 rpms throttle setting.....33 mph...real easy break over...
>stall at WOT..6200....hanging stall..mushing then an break...prop making all
>kinds of strange sounds to warn you plenty early...still about 33 mph...due
>to mush tho hard to pin down speed...
>
>
>installed 12 vortex gens today...6 per side...in valley between ribs...none
>in inside quadrant of wing in front of prop arc ( I was worried about that
>carpet tape)
>
>Loaded to 502....
>
>stall at wot....never did really....nose stayed up and just wouldnt come
>down.....airspeed indicator dropped off to less than 20..likely because
>angle to steep for pitot...or I was tailslideing slightly....I had to lower
>nose to come out of it...
>2nd try WOT...determined that i oughtta be able to stall this turd...so I
>just held it up there and danced the rudder to keep it straight....finally
>the nose dropped after what seemed like forever....I had so little
>resistance on stick i think i was standing still or sliding...it finally
>fell over quick...definatly a Different bird with these on! Also never did
>hear that prop noise so I guess there is some air getting to the prop that
>wasnt getting there before from the inner most VG's, even tho they are not
>directly in front of the prop arc..very noticable..although the cavitating
>noise before was a nice warning...
>
>Stall at 5000 rpms throttle.....27 mph!!!!!!....did it 3 or 4 times and I
>think I might have seen 26 once!...loaded to GROSS folks...!
>I have gained actually a solid 6 mph of slow flight envelope.....I can't
>believe it....Im gonna do it again in the morning to see if i was dreaming
>today!
>
>I installed them at 13.5 inches back from the center of the leading edge
>tube...they are a tad behind the high part of the wing when at flight
>attitude. what i attempted to do was raise the wing to flight attitude..and
>threw a line across the top of the wing at what appeared to be the highest
>point...then placed the front of the vg on this line.
>
>I made the Vgs at a 20 deg angle....\ / not because im a smart
>feller...but because I studied all the patent data at US patent web
>site...Studied brother Shacks archives...and brother Harts stuff too. I
>could not decide after all this that I knew what was best..so I just went in
>between!
>
>I cant say if I have done it right, or the best way..but im not gonna change
>em..I'm very pleased.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>Don Gherardini-
>FireFly 098
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bob's blackout pics |
message of Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:56:21 -0700
--> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford)
No wonder we're in the pockets of the fossil fuel
peddlers......contrast our lighted profile to that of Canada......even
the metro areas near our borders. Maybe we should take heed....?
Thanks, Bob, for an eye-opener.
Weather greatly improved.....no fog, less heat.....Kolb weather.
Where are ya, Big Lar?
Mike in WV
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
It's bogus. Here's why, courtesy of Bob Cording:
Richard, I got fooled again. The satellite "photo" of the blackout turns
out to be fake. My son-in-law analyzed it as he describes below. Sorry!
Bob:
This is not a real satellite image. It has been faked. By using a Gamma
adjustment in any good Paint program, it is easy to see that the "faker"
has used black to paint out the areas assumed to be blacked out on the date
in question. The "unlit" landmass in the satellite photo is actually
lighter than absolute black and, when the gamma function is used to enhance
the entire image, the painted-out area is easily visible. The date and
other text would be even easier to alter. I have attached the image that I
enhanced this way so you can see what I mean.
George
<snip>
But since you can't attach .jpg's to stuff for the list, take my word for
it, the black area is too black in his adjusted image, much blacker than it
should be.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Do Not Archive
At 07:02 PM 8/22/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
>
>What's wrong with this
>picture? http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/Blackout.jpg
>
>
>Bob N.
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Bonsell" <ebonsell@earthlink.net>
Hi All,
I have a 377 Rotax with Warp Drive 66 x 28 on my 86 Firestar. I like it.
Sincerely,
Ed Bonsell
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
After Big Lar's visit I started rethinking the Harley redrive. Then last night
it hit me! The whole problem thus far has been trying to work around the starter
flex plate and retain the HD compensating sprocket for torsional dampening.So
I plan to move the starter up on the propshaft end of the drive like it is
on the motorcycle. this will allow me to use the HD double roller chain in oil
with the HD slack adjuster.I can make a drive train case that will bolt to the
engine case much like the primary drive on the bike and use tapered roller bearings
on the prop shaft. I'm thinking 1 1/4" shaft. This set up will also allow
the stator to run in oil for cooling. I guess taking some time off the project
helped. Thanks to Big Lar for the nuge.....
pp
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: EVO/Air update |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
The whole problem thus far has been trying to work around the starter flex
plate and retain the HD compensating sprocket for torsional dampening.So I
plan to move the starter up on the propshaft end of the drive like it is on
the motorcycle. this will allow me to use the HD double roller chain in oil
with the HD slack adjuster.I can make a drive train case that will bolt to
the engine case much like the primary drive on the bike and use tapered
roller bearings on the prop shaft. I'm thinking 1 1/4" shaft. This set up
will also allow the stator to run in oil for cooling. >
Wonder what all this will weigh when done. Once read about a guy that used a
Yamaha Virago engine on a Newport replica. Spun the prop right off the drive
shaft output shaft. I had an old wrecked Virago and removed the engine one
day cause I was curious. The engine with tranny gears and all weighed 200
lbs. Pulled the tranny gears out and still weighed 140 lbs. Kirk
Do not archive
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Wonder what all this will weigh when done.
I'm guessing 150-165 range.
pp
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Belt sander specs. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Go down to your local Homely Depot (ugly orange) or Lowe's and check out
the Delta sanders. They not bad for the money, cost much less than they
did in early 90's. I have one of the small Delta 1" belt sanders and a 4"
belt/5-6"disk sander. They work good. Also have a Sears 1" belt/6-8" disk
sander, it has more power than the Delta, hard to stop the belt on it but
I've had to do some work on it. It's now working fine. I've seen another
similar design but it had a improved design of the belt tracking and
tightener, and easier putting a belt on and off.
Can't recall for sure, but one of the companies 1" belt sander came with a
clear plastic shield at the top which stops it from throwing stuff back at
you into your face. It was a nice feature. I do believe you would be
happier with the Delta tools in the long run.
While I have a friend that has had good luck with Harbor Freight power and
air tools, I my self have not. This was back in the early 90's about the
time they were switching from manufacturing in Twain to China. The Taiwan
made hand tools were good but the early on China stuff was junk. I
returned more brand new faulty tools than you would believe. I did just
recently purchase one of Harbor Freight sliding miter saws ($99) and so far
it works fine. I got the slider so I could cut wider 2x12"s. Now having
used it I would now purchase the Delta units that sells for about $90-$100
that's lighter making it easier to move around and it still would cut 2x8's.
harbor freight had a Metal Chop Saw on sale for $49, you can't beat
that. If you put a fine metal blade on it, it would be a killer for
cutting tubing I think. The abrasive blade it comes with wouldn't work
well for aluminum. A table saw works good too.
jerb
(some folks get their high from using drugs including smoking, I get mine
from buying tools and I still have the tools to use afterwards)
At 05:41 PM 8/21/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello all,
>
>I am looking at small, bench mounted belt sanders for
>smoothing aluminum after cutting. Any advice on the
>grade of sandpaper to use? Been looking at some
>Harbor Freight models priced around $80; any thoughts
>on whether it will last longer than a week ;-), or
>other suggested sanders?
>
>Thanks, Jim
>
>Jim Clayton
>California
>Mark-3X, waiting for Kit#1
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
What's the easy conversion degrees to inches pitch? -BB do not archive
Ed Bonsell wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Bonsell" <ebonsell@earthlink.net>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I have a 377 Rotax with Warp Drive 66 x 28 on my 86 Firestar. I like it.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Ed Bonsell
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of Vortex generators..WOW |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Don, thanks for your research effort and sharing it with us.
Would you have a photo of your generator, if so could you put it up on your
web site.
I really think you should try both of the other for comparison otherwise
how will we know which is better. You done so well to this point, you got
to go that next step like a true scientist.
jerb
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Diameter |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Greetings,
1) I had a screw come off the engine and hit my prop. Not a problem to get it
fix, was done in a day by IVO.
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Prop1.jpg
2) I had the same problem with my IVO, lost part of the leading edge tape.
IVO said they had a bad batch of tape adhesion. It happened again after they
replaced it. Didn't scare me as much the 2nd time it happened because the
FireStar will starts shaking like a wet dog. I replaced it with transparent=20tape.
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/prop.jpg
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: <BICUM@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propeller Diameter
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: BICUM@aol.com
>
> I currently have an IVO.=A0 If I need to replace it soon, will strongly
> consider the Warp for the reasons that John H. mentions.
>
> 1)=A0 Things do come off your airplane and go through the prop.=A0 At about 100
> hours, a little bitty bolt=A0 vibrated off and went through the prop.=A0 Put
a
nice
> nick in one blade of the IVO.=A0 Sent it back to IVO and they reworked it=20for
a
> very reasonable price.=A0 IVO has provided good service.
>
> 2) IVO's don't seem to like long flights, during the summer in the south.=A0
> Last summer made a long XC (~450 nm) during the first week of July.=A0
Started
> loosing the SS tapes on the leading edges.=A0 One came off and damaged the
fabric
> on the top of a flap.=A0 Not a good thing on a long XC.=A0 That has been the
only
> time I had trouble with the tapes coming off.=A0 That is the hottest and
longest
> periods of time I pushed the plane.
>
> If you are a short hopper, the IVO is smooth.=A0 I have been very happy with
> it, except for that one long trip last summer.=A0 I still fly it with no
problems,
> I just carry extra SS tapes on long flights.=A0 If I have to replace it, I
will
> probably go with the warp.
>
> Just my experience with an IVO.
>
>
> John Bickham
> St. Francisville, LA
> N308JB
> Mark III - 912
> 190 hrs.
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Ed,
I'm glad to hear it.
I was told I couldn't swing a warp on my 503 because the prop was too big for
my small engine.
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Bonsell" <<A HREF"mailto:ebonsell@earthlink.net">ebonsell@earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Propellors
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Bonsell" <ebonsell@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have a 377 Rotax with Warp Drive 66 x 28 on my 86 Firestar.=A0 I like it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ed Bonsell
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
You know I heard and read about this prop or that prop being better, but
you never seen any true back to back test that provide conclusive data that
one is better. Now "Kirk" being engineering orientated, I truly surprised
he hasn't taken this on and applied his true engineering talents
by devising a true test that could be done on the ground that would
conclusively establish which prop performs better. Appears like it may
take a wind tunnel and possibly environmental control of temperature or
electric motor as the prop power source.....
jerb
do not archive
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
What kind of increase did you see on cruise speed?
jerb
At 10:37 PM 8/22/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 8/22/03 10:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>lgreen1@sc.rr.com writes:
>
>
> > Here's a question from a new Kolb driver to get you all going. If you
> could
> > do one thing to an older Firestar I with 377 to improve safety,
> performance
> > and reliability what would it be? ( without letting you fly it instead
> of me
> > )
> > Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
> >
> >
> >
>
>I would install my Vortex Generators on the wings -one on each main rib for a
>total of 10. The cost to make them is under $20.
>
>They should lower your stall speed by 4-5 mph, give better gas mileage,
>increase your cruise speed for same rpm's, etc..
>
>Put some on your vertical fin for power steering.
>
>If you want the plan, let me know.
>
>Howard Shackleford
>FS II
>Lexington, SC
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Will and Gang,
You can use a two blade warp and not the 3 blade without exceeding the
specifications on the "B" gearbox. That being said, my first plane was a
Mark II Twinstar with a point ignition 503 DC "B" box and it had a 3 blade
warp drive on it which performed very good. I don't remember the exact
diameter, I think 62" or so and the engine had 160 hours or so on it.
Later,
John Cooley
-------Original Message-------
From: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellors
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Ed,
I'm glad to hear it.
I was told I couldn't swing a warp on my 503 because the prop was too big
for
my small engine.
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Bonsell" <<A HREF
mailto:ebonsell@earthlink.net"ebonsell@earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Propellors
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ed Bonsell" <ebonsell@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have a 377 Rotax with Warp Drive 66 x 28 on my 86 Firestar.=A0 I like it
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ed Bonsell
.
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Hey Will,
If these here vortex generators can increase your speed just a little,
might be work giving them a try. You just can't let this happen.
jerb
do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
I also have the 3 blade 60" Powerfin on my Firestar II with 503 DCDI power.
I have about 140 hours on the prop and am satisfied with it for what I do.
Prior to the Powerfin I had a 66" 2 blade GSC ground adjustable prop. I can
t tell much if any performance difference. The Powerfin is much, much easier
to adjust.
I would also consider the Kiev Hot Prop unless there is some support
problems as has been suggested. Gregg Waligroski did a informal test of the
Hot Prop comparing it to some other props that was pretty interesting. As I
remember it out performed the other ones in the informal test impressively.
I sure you could do a search of the archives for "Hot Prop" and find that
message.
Here is a link to go to on the web that has Hot prop info http://www
aero-sports.com/bb/hotprop/hotprop.html and I also found a testimonial from
a guy about a Firestar with a Hot Prop. Here it is
"Snip" My friend tried out my HotProp before I had a chance. He put it on
his 503 Kolb and loved it.
He said that I can't have it back, so I want to order another. Static thrust
test on his Kolb
shows well over 20% increase in thrust when compared to his two blade Warp
Drive. Our field
elevation is 5,000 feet. Warp Drive was, ROC 700 FPM. Cruise was 54MPH at
5600 RPM. HotProp
ROC is 900 to 1000 FPM. Cruise is now 62MPH at 5000 RPM.
"End snip"
The Hot Props are pretty pricey but if they perform as advertised may be
worth it. Time will tell I guess.
Later,
John Cooley
-------Original Message-------
From: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: props
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@motorola.com>
Gang,
I just purchased a 3 blade 60" Powerfin for my Firestar II 503dcdi. After
spending some time talking to Stewart G.( the owner of Powerfin) over the
past 18 months, I am very impressed with his professionalism and the time he
took for the one on one conversations we had. Really a knowledgeable man who
cares a lot about his product.
I swayed to Powerfin due to Will Uribe and Dave Rains New Mexico to Oregon
trip last year in their two firestar II's. Basically both have the same
airplane and engine. Will U. had a three blade Ivo and Dave had a three
blade Powerfin. Dave outran Will by a few miles per hour.
After personally talking to Will U. on one of his trips here to the GM Mesa
proving grounds, Will admitted that he liked the Powerfin prop better and if
he had to do it over again he would buy the Powerfin.
Powerfin sure has a pretty blade and new fully CNC'd black anodized aluminum
hub.
I was also impressed with Hot Prop with brass inlaid leading edge and
simitar shape, but hesitant due to the prop being made over seas and leery
of the continued customer support.
Good luck,
Tim Gherkins
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Pike [mailto:rwpike@charter.net]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: props
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Have used two blade and three blade props and am satisfied that a two blade
gives a broader performance range while a three blade can be smoother.
I think there's a bunch of stuff on props in the archives.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 10:11 AM 8/22/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
>all....especially MkIII drivers, I'll be experimenting with the 2 blade
>warp drive
>hub. How many out there are using a 2 blader and satisfied with it? I've
>read all the negatives, just wonder about success stories. -BB
>
>
.
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Come to think of it, Dave had vortex generators installed on top of his
FireStar's wings. Could that be why he was flying away from me?
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "jerb" <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: props
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
> Hey Will,
> If these here vortex generators can increase your speed just a little,
> might be work giving them a try.=A0 You just can't let this happen.
> jerb
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Hi Paul,
I have been thinking about building a King Kolbra. What did TNK tell you
about installing flaps on the Kolbra?
Regards,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Big Day
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
>Kolbers,
> Well today is the big day. I mailed a check to TNK for kit 1 for a King
Kolbra. Plan on working in the shop this weekend getting ready to start. I bought
two real heavy built 4 x 8 tables that I plan to put end to end and true up.
They have Formica surfaces with a back splash. This sound like a suitable work
surface? I'm very excited to finally get going on this project. Thanks to all
for the good advice.
>
> Let the madness begin!
>
> pp
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Hi Will,
I was just sitting here looking at your site. TNK said I would have to make those
mods my self. Said to see what mods that Jim was going to make to the cage
and they would do those for me.
pp
do not archive
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> You know I heard and read about this prop or that prop being better, but
> you never seen any true back to back test that provide conclusive data
that
> one is better. Now "Kirk" being engineering orientated, I truly surprised
> he hasn't taken this on and applied his true engineering talents
> by devising a true test that could be done on the ground that would
> conclusively establish which prop performs better. Appears like it may
> take a wind tunnel and possibly environmental control of temperature or
> electric motor as the prop power source.....
> jerb
>
Sounds interesting. Have done a few tests as a matter of fact and found out
that one blade follows the other. Kind of like what goes around comes
around. Really useless data though. Wouldn't call it scientific or even
elementary engineering........Kirk
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 8/23/03 10:57:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ulflyer@verizon.net writes:
> What kind of increase did you see on cruise speed?
> jerb
>
>
I have not documented this. Most of the performance gains are theoretical,
except for the lowering of stall speed. In my opinion, just to be able to
lower stall by 5 mph is incredible, especially when you consider you can build
&
install them in under two hours & less than $20.
Back to theoretical increase of cruise speed with same rpm; we know the VG's
are working because the stall has lowered. Not to oversimplify, but the
moving air is staying attached more to the top wing surface, creating more lift
for the same angle of attack. Therefore, we should be able to lower the angle
of attack [therefore less drag]
with the result of an increase in speed with no throttle change.
For this same reason, top speed should increase.
I've also installed three VG's on each side of my fuselage to give better
airflow to the prop [again, theoretical].
Shack
FS II
SC
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 8/23/03 11:13:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
WillUribe@aol.com writes:
> Come to think of it, Dave had vortex generators installed on top of his
> FireStar's wings. Could that be why he was flying away from me?
>
>
I'll bet he gets better gas mileage while flying away from you...........
Shack
FS II
SC
Message 24
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Kirk,
Good reply back.
Jerb
do not archive
At 12:04 PM 8/23/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
>
> > You know I heard and read about this prop or that prop being better, but
> > you never seen any true back to back test that provide conclusive data
>that
> > one is better. Now "Kirk" being engineering orientated, I truly surprised
> > he hasn't taken this on and applied his true engineering talents
> > by devising a true test that could be done on the ground that would
> > conclusively establish which prop performs better. Appears like it may
> > take a wind tunnel and possibly environmental control of temperature or
> > electric motor as the prop power source.....
> > jerb
> >
>
>
>Sounds interesting. Have done a few tests as a matter of fact and found out
>that one blade follows the other. Kind of like what goes around comes
>around. Really useless data though. Wouldn't call it scientific or even
>elementary engineering........Kirk
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
The new style of IVO metal leading edge tape is a pain.
What brand of clear tape are you using and where did you get it?
Because I need some real bad...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:40 AM 8/23/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
>
>2) I had the same problem with my IVO, lost part of the leading edge tape.
>IVO said they had a bad batch of tape adhesion. It happened again after they
>replaced it. Didn't scare me as much the 2nd time it happened because the
>FireStar will starts shaking like a wet dog. I replaced it with
>transparent=20tape.
>http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/prop.jpg
>
>Will Uribe
>El Paso, TX
>FireStar II N4GU
>C-172 N2506U
>http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
>do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Blackout aka Too Black, Way Out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
To all who said the pix was fake:
Well, as said: What's wrong with this picture?
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Lawrence M. Rice" <tailwind5@juno.com>
Wood props are lovely, absorb vibration, can be made to flex so close to
being a constant speed, but rain really chews them up. A friend of mine
hit some rain in his Hatz a few months back and the leading edges of the
prop looked like a beaver had been chewing on them, had to fix with epoxy
before heading home. A urethane or matal leading edge helps.
Larry the MicroMong guy
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Years ago I took a trip in the winter with a wood prop. The snow ate 1/8"
off the leading edge of the prop and I fixed it with 5-minute epoxy when
I go home.
The composite props don't get eaten up by snow.
Here's a post to the local list of todays' flight for those who might be
interested:
**********************
Guys,
I had a great flight this morning over the western suburbs. I flew in
glass-smooth air to Lake Waconia to take some pictures of a scientist's
home. I work with this guy and when I got there, him and his wife and
kids were waving at me.
With the winds picking up I gave this guy an unusual demonstration of the
flying characteristics of the Kolb Firestar. I got up to a 1000' and did
the 'harrier maneuver' overhead. I slowed the Firestar just above stall
speed and it did not move forward. I estimated the winds to be about
20-25mph at that altitude and was able to stay in one spot, turning it on
the yaw axis one way and then the other.
To the observer on the ground, it looked as though the plane was
motionless yet yawing like a harrier. I'm sure he has never seen this and
probably wondering how it was possible to do it as he did not know about
the upper level wind speeds.
I will get his reaction at work on Monday.
On another note, I talked with an old pilot this morning who had some
insight into the accident that happened last evening in the Lake Elmo
area. He said years' ago pilots had a 'swivel head' looking outside the
cockpit to avoid midair collisions. Todays' pilots have their heads
buried in the cockpit looking and playing with the GPS and other
instruments. I'm guilty of this too.
Food for thought ........
Fun flight and glad that I got up in the air this morning.
Ralph Burlingame
(there was a midair collision in the area between a Piper Archer and a
Cessna 172 last evening at 5:30pm. The C-172 pilot survived but his
passenger died. Both people in the Piper were killed).
do not archive
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:18:23 -0400 "Lawrence M. Rice"
<tailwind5@juno.com> writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Lawrence M. Rice"
> <tailwind5@juno.com>
>
> Wood props are lovely, absorb vibration, can be made to flex so
> close to
> being a constant speed, but rain really chews them up. A friend of
> mine
> hit some rain in his Hatz a few months back and the leading edges of
> the
> prop looked like a beaver had been chewing on them, had to fix with
> epoxy
> before heading home. A urethane or matal leading edge helps.
>
> Larry the MicroMong guy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel@kfalls.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <HShack@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vortex Generators
> I've also installed three VG's on each side of my fuselage to give better
> airflow to the prop [again, theoretical].
>
> Shack
> FS II
> SC
As a point of interest, I have the factory enclosure on my Firestar II. I am
not sure how everyone else did theirs, but mine flares out quite a bit at
the sides. I was worried about the air swirling back and causing a lot of
drag, plus something Pike said about dirty air to the prop. So I stuck three
VG's to the bulging enclosure and tufted yarn to the back of the cage all
along the rear of the bird. Some were up by the enclosure, others back along
the cage. Unfortunately I didn't do a flight without the VG's, but with them
on there was no swirling air anywhere on the cage in front of the prop or
anywhere at all. I had the wife film my fly by's so I could see for myself.
All the yarn pieces were straight back, One feature of the VG's is that it
quieted the noise a lot, leading me to believe that the air to the prop was
a lot cleaner than it had been.
Larry
Message 30
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Don't do it, Will....................he'll go and hide on ya. :-)
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trip
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
>
> I think you will find the wright brothers shop was moved by Henty Ford
to
> the detroit area. He even moved the dirt it was sitting on. If you are up
> this way drop in and say hey.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <WillUribe@aol.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trip
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
> >
> > Greetings,
> > I'm getting bored of Indianapolis, I have 4 more weeks left here.
> > This weekend I'm driving to Dayton, Ohio and visit the Wright brothers
> > bicycle shop.
> >
> > Any Kolb flyer out that way?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Will Uribe
> > El Paso, TX
> > FireStar II N4GU
> > C-172 N2506U
> > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Good luck to ya, Paul, and thanks to you and Charlie for your hospitality
the other day. Lar in Pineville, Lousy-ana. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Big Day
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Well today is the big day. I mailed a check to TNK for kit 1 for a King
Kolbra. Plan on working in the shop this weekend getting ready to start. I
bought two real heavy built 4 x 8 tables that I plan to put end to end and
true up. They have Formica surfaces with a back splash. This sound like a
suitable work surface? I'm very excited to finally get going on this
project. Thanks to all for the good advice.
>
> Let the madness begin!
>
> pp
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Belt sander specs. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I have to agree with Tim. (or Jan ??) I started off with a good bench
mounted belt sander, (around $150.00 at Home Depot) with a 4" wide x about 2
ft long belt, and never thought about it, except for appreciating the
tremendous amount of work I did with it. This has to be a "MUST HAVE" tool.
I used medium grit belts for a while, and still keep one handy, tho' I
seldom use it. Med. grit removes material in a hurry ! !
!...............and leaves a fairly coarse texture. For almost
everything - especially on aluminum, fine grit is the way to go. I don't
recall ever seeing an extra fine grit belt, but if I ever do, I'll try one.
About 2 yrs ago, some a--hole decided he needed the sander worse than I did,
and it vanished, so I bought a replacement Chinese Junk piece of garbage
from Harbor Freight for about $80 or $90. Don't remember the brand name,
but it's painted green. You cannot buy v-belts for the thing, so I hope the
existing one never breaks. Biggest pain is that the belt WILL NOT stay
centered...............constantly fiddling with it. You'll use this tool as
much, or more than any other - do yourself a favor and get a good one.
Been There Lar.
PeeEss: One day I'll catch one of those jerks with my stuff, and the
state will soon there-after see to it that I take mandatory retirement, with
free room & board. Lar Again.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Timandjan@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Belt sander specs.
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 8/21/03 8:42:34 PM, jspc78@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I am looking at small, bench mounted belt sanders for
> > smoothing aluminum after cutting.=A0 Any advice on the
> > grade of sandpaper to use?=A0 Been looking at some
> > Harbor Freight models priced around $80; any thoughts
> > on whether it will last longer than a week ;-), or
> > other suggested sanders?
> >
> > Thanks, Jim
> >
> >
>
> I built my whole plane on a harbor freight one, worked fine, but now that
I
> am building another I wish I had bought a better one. You know the saying
about
> buying cheap tools, always wish for a better one later.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: IVO clear tape |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
LEAF has it @$3.00/ft. P1005.............do not archive
Richard Pike wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
>The new style of IVO metal leading edge tape is a pain.
>What brand of clear tape are you using and where did you get it?
>Because I need some real bad...
>
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>At 10:40 AM 8/23/03 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
>>
>>2) I had the same problem with my IVO, lost part of the leading edge tape.
>>IVO said they had a bad batch of tape adhesion. It happened again after they
>>replaced it. Didn't scare me as much the 2nd time it happened because the
>>FireStar will starts shaking like a wet dog. I replaced it with
>>transparent=20tape.
>>http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/prop.jpg
>>
>>Will Uribe
>>El Paso, TX
>>FireStar II N4GU
>>C-172 N2506U
>>http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Thanks Shack e-mail them to me and I'll make a set and put them on. Hope to
see ya at our flyin in Oct.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: <HShack@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: think
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/22/03 10:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> lgreen1@sc.rr.com writes:
>
>
> > Here's a question from a new Kolb driver to get you all going. If you
could
> > do one thing to an older Firestar I with 377 to improve safety,
performance
> > and reliability what would it be? ( without letting you fly it instead
of me
> > )
> > Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
> >
> >
> >
>
> I would install my Vortex Generators on the wings -one on each main rib
for a
> total of 10. The cost to make them is under $20.
>
> They should lower your stall speed by 4-5 mph, give better gas mileage,
> increase your cruise speed for same rpm's, etc..
>
> Put some on your vertical fin for power steering.
>
> If you want the plan, let me know.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS II
> Lexington, SC
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Easter Coast Regional Flying |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Chuck David - Comcast wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Chuck Davis - Comcast" <davis207@comcast.net>
>
> Well, we can't all make it to Oshkosh. However, the East Coast Regional
> fly-in is at New Garden (N57) in South East PA Sept 13-14. I plan on flying
> down from Princeton in the Firefly. Any other Kolb drivers planning to make
> it?
>
> http://www.n57.com/
>
> Chuck Davis
> FF 028
>
>
Chuck,
I hope to make it! Are you going to be there both days? I'll look for you.
What's the color of your FireFly?
Terry - FireFly #95
Do not archive
Message 36
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Woody,
I had no problem finding the Wright Cycle Company shop. learned something new
today, the Wright brothers had 5 bicycle shops. The brochure says "A
National Historic Landmark and the only bicycle shop intact and in its original
location." So I guess Ford moved another one of the shops.
Thanks to everyone who sent me advice on or off list. I visited New Lebanon
airport, lots of ultralights but no Kolbs were out. Went to the Waco fly-in,
now that was fun.
Sunday I plan to visit Sporty's in Batavia.
Thanks.
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "Woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trip
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
>
> I think you will find the wright brothers shop was moved by Henty Ford to
> the detroit area. He even moved the dirt it was sitting on.
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: IVO clear tape |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
The clear tape was given to me by an ultralighter in Grants Pass, OR. I have
no idea where he got from, sorry.
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: IVO clear tape
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> The new style of IVO metal leading edge tape is a pain.
> What brand of clear tape are you using and where did you get it?
> Because I need some real bad...
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Propellors Bonsell |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: FlyColt45@aol.com
Glad to hear that you finally got that Kolb up in the air again!
Jim Cote
Message 39
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Timandjan@aol.com
I live in North Virginia and am trying to plan to attend the Kolb Flyin in
Sept, is there anybody in this area or on the way that would like to go. I am
inclined to trailer my Firestar2 there rather than fly, but I mitgh fly if
someone wants to fly together.
Let me know, off list is fine.
timandjan@aol.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 40
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
Uncle Craig has just signed up for the klob list, and hope to share on the info.
Tim and I have been so busy building the extra and f star that we haven't had
time to fix our downed web site. I started an engine faring at this time a
year ago, thought it would take me 2 mo. However in Jan I finally had a part to
put on the plane. I GOT THE AIR FRAME FROM THE POWDER COATER YESTERDAY AND TODAY
INSTALLED THE FUEL TANK AND GOT THE FABRICK PUT ON!!!!!!!!!!!! Hope it wont
be long before the first flight. If the files aren't to big here's 2 photos
of the engine faring.
Uncle Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: T. K. Frantz
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wood props
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Kirk Smith wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
> Does anybody know who makes the wood props that Kolb uses on their fireflies?
Kirk
>
Kirk,
Tennessee Propellors makes the wood prop, at least they did a year ago. If your
looking to get a better price by dealing with them direct, think again. I tried
and
found that I was able to get a better price from TNK. Go figure?!!!
Found out they will do a urethane leading edge if you ask for it.
Terry - FireFly # 95
Message 41
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
In a message dated 8/23/03 8:13:34 PM Central Standard Time,
WillUribe@aol.com writes:
<< airport, lots of ultralights but no Kolbs were out. Went to the Waco
fly-in,
now that was fun.
>>
Will,
When was the waco Flyin.? Do they have it every year?
Ed (In Houston)
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: IVO clear tape |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Would leading edge tape that they make for applying to the leading edges of
horizontal stabs to reduce nicks and stone chips in the paint? See
Aircraft Spruce. The black is about half the cost of the clear.
jerb
At 01:14 PM 8/23/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
>The new style of IVO metal leading edge tape is a pain.
>What brand of clear tape are you using and where did you get it?
>Because I need some real bad...
>
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>At 10:40 AM 8/23/03 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
> >
> >2) I had the same problem with my IVO, lost part of the leading edge tape.
> >IVO said they had a bad batch of tape adhesion. It happened again after they
> >replaced it. Didn't scare me as much the 2nd time it happened because the
> >FireStar will starts shaking like a wet dog. I replaced it with
> >transparent=20tape.
> >http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/prop.jpg
> >
> >Will Uribe
> >El Paso, TX
> >FireStar II N4GU
> >C-172 N2506U
> >http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
> >do not archive
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | The annual WACO Celebration and Reunion |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
I kind of stubbled on to the WACO fly in. The National Park Service Ranger
at the Wright brothers cycle shop told me about it.
The fly in was today and it's held at 1865 South County Road 25A, Troy, Ohio.
I think it is held every year.
http://www.wacoairmuseum.org/
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: <DAquaNut@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trip
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: DAquaNut@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/23/03 8:13:34 PM Central Standard Time,
> WillUribe@aol.com writes:
>
> << airport, lots of ultralight but no Kolbs were out. Went to the Waco
> fly-in,
>now that was fun.
> >>
>=A0
>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Will,
>
>=A0=A0 When was the waco Flyin.?=A0 Do they have it every year?
>
>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ed (In Houston)
>
Message 44
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
I figure it like this. The kit manufacturer has researched the prop and
knows the particulars of it when operated on their aircraft. Because of
that they can better field most questions from customers than the prop
manufacturer. Due to this the kit manufacturer likely gets a better price
which means they can past some of the discount on to the customer. On the
other hand when a customer attempts to deal direct with the
manufacturer, the manufacturer has to respond and educate each customer on
a individual basis. This reduces the prop manufacturers productivity and
increase their cost thus they must pass it on to the buyer. Another
influential factor it may be the prop manufacturers intent discourage
competition against his own dealers.
jerb
At 09:33 PM 8/23/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
>
>Uncle Craig has just signed up for the klob list, and hope to share on the
>info. Tim and I have been so busy building the extra and f star that we
>haven't had time to fix our downed web site. I started an engine faring at
>this time a year ago, thought it would take me 2 mo. However in Jan I
>finally had a part to put on the plane. I GOT THE AIR FRAME FROM THE
>POWDER COATER YESTERDAY AND TODAY INSTALLED THE FUEL TANK AND GOT THE
>FABRICK PUT ON!!!!!!!!!!!! Hope it wont be long before the first flight.
>If the files aren't to big here's 2 photos of the engine faring.
>Uncle Craig
>----- Original Message -----
>From: T. K. Frantz
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wood props
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
>
>Kirk Smith wrote:
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> >
> > Does anybody know who makes the wood props that Kolb uses on their
> fireflies? Kirk
> >
>
>Kirk,
>
>Tennessee Propellors makes the wood prop, at least they did a year
>ago. If your
>looking to get a better price by dealing with them direct, think again. I
>tried and
>found that I was able to get a better price from TNK. Go figure?!!!
>
>Found out they will do a urethane leading edge if you ask for it.
>
>Terry - FireFly # 95
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Easter Coast Regional Flying |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
In a message dated 08/22/2003 10:01:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
davis207@comcast.net writes:
> Well, we can't all make it to Oshkosh. However, the East Coast Regional
> fly-in is at New Garden (N57) in South East PA Sept 13-14.
Chuck and others,
The correct date for the EC Fly-in WAS Sept. 6th and 7th. I say WAS
because the event has been cancelled (the organization sited insufficient funds
as
the reason).
However, in its place, EAA chapter 240, which is located on the airport, is
going to have a breakfast and lunch fly-in, both days. So there will still be
a fly-in, it just won't be called the East Coast Fly-in. See enclosed memo
from Chapter 240.
Do not archive
Bill Varnes
Original FireStar
Audubon NJ
Subject: East Coast Fly-in and chapter 240 august newsletter
Hello neighboring EAA Chapters.
As is briefly addressed in my latest (attached) newsletter, the ECFI
committee has notified us at the last minute that they are not holding the fly-in.
Well, does it really matter this year with the lousy weather we have all been
having!!!....
Well...Yeah! We at Chapter 240 still plan on providing a fly-in and drive-in
event opportunity the weekend of September 6th and 7th. So many of the
potential flying destination events have been washed out or fogged out, that we
see
every reason to keep trying!! New Garden Airport and Everitt duPont also
welcome you.
Our hangar hospitality will be in full swing for breakfast and lunch, Sat and
Sunday. If you wish to arrive Friday evening, just let us know so we can
help you with camping, and facilities at the hangar.
If any of you wish to assist with marshalling planes, please raise your
hands. Should the weather turn out clear, 240 members will have their hands full.
Next week our Board will be meeting to further organize the Fly-in. I will
send out an e-mail to everyone on my list updating you on our final plans.
Please relay this message to other chapters on your lists so everyone will know
of the changes with the ECFI.
Keep the ECFI date on your calendar. It's about flying and camaraderie after
all!!! And just maybe the sky will be as blue as in these August newsletter
photos!!
We welcome any suggestions you may have for this event.
Lee Blazejewski
Secretary Chapter 240
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