Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: Attaching velcro (Larry Bourne)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Warp Drive prop (Airgriff2@aol.com)
3. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 08/23/03 (Airgriff2@aol.com)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: UL Activity in FL (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
5. 08:15 AM - Don's webpage (Paul Petty)
6. 01:50 PM - Re: think (ron wehba)
7. 02:56 PM - thrust (Paul Petty)
8. 03:11 PM - Cleaning Up The FireFly Continues. (Jack & Louise Hart)
9. 05:59 PM - uncle Craig engine faring (CRAIG M NELSON)
10. 06:24 PM - Re: uncle Craig engine faring (Gene Ledbetter)
11. 06:36 PM - Re: thrust (Bob Bean)
12. 06:40 PM - Re: uncle Craig engine faring (Bob Bean)
13. 07:03 PM - Re: think (HShack@aol.com)
14. 07:22 PM - Re: uncle craig (CRAIG M NELSON)
15. 07:23 PM - Re: thrust, measurement, prop setting (Richard Swiderski)
16. 08:19 PM - Re: Cleaning Up The FireFly Continues. (Richard Pike)
17. 08:20 PM - Re: uncle Craig engine faring (Richard Pike)
18. 09:50 PM - Re: Foam cutter (HShack@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching velcro |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Yah, but Bob Bean has the idea...............liquid nails is a really great
cure-all. Give it a try.......good stuff. Lar.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Attaching velcro
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> At 08:26 PM 8/24/03 -0400, you wrote:
> >Several years ago I had some velcro which seemed like it gradually would
> >turn loose from the glue, and I ended up drilling a bunch of little holes
> >down either side of the velcro strip and "sewing" it to the aluminum
sheet
> >with thin wire. That, combined with the glue, gave me peace of mind that
> >it wouldn't come loose, and the little strands of wire running across the
> >face of the velcro didn't seem to cause any problem.
>
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
> >
> >The lexan cut out door in the wing gap area which allows the ballistic
> > > chute to exit, was held down with velcro which had come loose and at
> > high rpm the
> > > lexan vibrated like a guitar string. At a lower rpm the noise went
> > away. For
> > > the time being, I have glued down the velcro with liquid nails. So far
so
> > > good.
> >Bob Griffin
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
Kirk, I have been using Simple Green on my Warp drive. Works well.
Bob Griffin
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 08/23/03 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
<A HREF="http://www.ultralightflyingny.org/flyin.htm">http://www.ultralightflyingny.org/flyin.htm Here is the infor on Mohawk
Valley Fly-In. Aug 22-25 Plateau Sky Ranch,, Edinburg, NY ( Upstate NY)
Bob Griffin
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: UL Activity in FL |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
We purchased a home in Venice FL a few years ago that we are renting and
will be living in during the winter months in a few years. I understand the
local Venice airport has a major waiting list for hanger space. I'm also
interested in alternative airports and activities in that area. Please
respond to me also or the list.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <gtalexander@att.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: UL Activity in FL
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: gtalexander@att.net
>
> Kolbers:
> Am in the process of exploring areas of FL as possible sites to relocate.
> Strongly considering the areas around Bradenton, Sarasota, Venice,
Englewood.
> One of the factors is obviously UL activity, areas to hangar, etc...
Anyone
> with any thoughts/information about the area would be appreciated. email
off-
> list if you like. gtalexander@att.net
> Thanks,
> George Alexander
> Original Firestar
> http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Does anyone have Don's web site address?
do not archive
pp
Message 6
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BAYES_30, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
howard, could you send it to me also, just had a new drive installed ,,lost
everything
----- Original Message -----
From: <HShack@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: think
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/22/03 10:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> lgreen1@sc.rr.com writes:
>
>
> > Here's a question from a new Kolb driver to get you all going. If you
could
> > do one thing to an older Firestar I with 377 to improve safety,
performance
> > and reliability what would it be? ( without letting you fly it instead
of me
> > )
> > Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
> >
> >
> >
>
> I would install my Vortex Generators on the wings -one on each main rib
for a
> total of 10. The cost to make them is under $20.
>
> They should lower your stall speed by 4-5 mph, give better gas mileage,
> increase your cruise speed for same rpm's, etc..
>
> Put some on your vertical fin for power steering.
>
> If you want the plan, let me know.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS II
> Lexington, SC
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Here's one for the motor heads. How does one measure how much thrust a given engine/prop
is producing? And once this info is obtained can one figure out how
well the engine will perform?
pp
Message 8
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| Subject: | Cleaning Up The FireFly Continues. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
FireFliers & Kolbers,
On the last trip to Painton from Perryville, there was a little cross wind from
the west. It gave me one of the best test flights on the new engine. Running
the Victor 1+ at 5,200 rpm, the average ground speed point to point was 56 mph,
and the fuel burn was 2.08 gph. This gives a four gallon range of 108 miles.
I am finding that the faster I run the engine, the better range I am getting.
Evidently, the drag profile reduction due to lower wing attack angle is greater
than the increase in parasitic drag due to increased speed, and maybe the
engine performance is moving toward a sweet spot too. It will take several
more trips at higher engine rpms to find out.
This trip has given me more encouragement to add more fairings to try stretch fuel
a little further. I have been adding fairings to the aileron torque tubes
and to the angle side of the ailerons. These fairings reduce the prop clearance
to just a little under four inches. From using clearance test strips in the
past, I believe the IVO will not hit the fairings. Calculations indicate that
these fairings should reduce the hp requirement to fly 55 mph by about 0.62
hp. Tomorrow I will be cutting out foam fairing pieces for the aileron push
rod tubes. Once these are installed, another 0.19 hp will be saved. Cutting
out foam pieces on a table scroll saw is a good activity for a couple of hours
on a hot day. But gluing them into place etc. is much more fun.
The last big drag reduction will be fairing in the 5/16 tubes on the trailing edges
of the ailerons and the tail feathers. The gluing of one inch thick foam
pieces to too laborious to think about. I have tried two things that ended up
in glorious failures. I am waiting for some nicrom wire so that I can make
a foam hot wire cutter, and then I will try again. What makes this one so encouraging
is that calculations show that by fairing in these little edges will
save another 0.78 hp. at 55 mph.
Don,
I believe you met Jerry Deckard and Richard Hoyer. Jerry flys out of Poplar Bluff,
MO, and Richard Hoyer flys from a grass strip at Painton, MO. This is were
EAA Chapter 453 meets. They have asked me several times to make the trip,
but family or spousal duties keep me from making the trip.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | uncle Craig engine faring |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
I just got this computer and MSN having trouble with attachments I tried earlier
to send pics but had delivery failure. here go's another try for a couple attachments
uncle
Craig
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: uncle Craig engine faring |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gene Ledbetter <gdledbetter@earthlink.net>
Craig,
You can attach photos on the Kolb List.
Look at the bottom of any email and it will take you to the
instructions for how to share photos with the Kolb List.
Gene
On Monday, Aug 25, 2003, at 20:56 US/Eastern, CRAIG M NELSON wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
>
> I just got this computer and MSN having trouble with attachments I
> tried earlier to send pics but had delivery failure. here go's another
> try for a couple attachments
> uncle
> Craig
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Paul here's an interesting site, can't guarantee it's accuracy.
http://www.altimizer.com/propspd.html
IMO static thrust is overrated, doesn't have much bearing on what you'll
be doing at speed. More relevant to slower craft like trikes. -BB
Paul Petty wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
>Here's one for the motor heads. How does one measure how much thrust a given engine/prop
is producing? And once this info is obtained can one figure out how
well the engine will perform?
>
>pp
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: uncle Craig engine faring |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Craig, you can't post attachments on this forum, pics have to be sent to
photoshare. scroll down to find. -you can add links however. do not archive
CRAIG M NELSON wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
>
>I just got this computer and MSN having trouble with attachments I tried earlier
to send pics but had delivery failure. here go's another try for a couple attachments
>uncle
>Craig
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 8/25/03 4:51:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rwehba@wtxs.net
writes:
> howard, could you send it to me also, just had a new drive installed ,,lost
> everything
>
Yep.
Shack
FS II
SC
Message 14
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
Milow(Tim)
Where were you last night? I think I got the pictures to work.
uncle Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: uncle craig
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420@motorola.com>
Welcome to the list uncle Craig! The photo's did not come thru? I'll have to
work with you on that.
nephew Timmy
-----Original Message-----
From: CRAIG M NELSON [mailto:vitalfx0@msn.com]
Subject: Kolb-List: uncle craig
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
Uncle Craig has just signed up for the klob list, and hope to share on the info.
Tim and I have been so busy building the extra and f star that we haven't had
time to fix our downed web site. I started an engine faring at this time a
year ago, thought it would take me 2 mo. However in Jan I finally had a part to
put on the plane. I GOT THE AIR FRAME FROM THE POWDER COATER YESTERDAY AND TODAY
INSTALLED THE FUEL TANK AND GOT THE FABRICK PUT ON!!!!!!!!!!!! Hope it wont
be long before the first flight. If the files aren't to big here's 2 photos
of the engine faring.
Uncle Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: T. K. Frantz
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wood props
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "T. K. Frantz" <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Kirk Smith wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
> Does anybody know who makes the wood props that Kolb uses on their fireflies?
Kirk
>
Kirk,
Tennessee Propellors makes the wood prop, at least they did a year ago. If your
looking to get a better price by dealing with them direct, think again. I tried
and
found that I was able to get a better price from TNK. Go figure?!!!
Found out they will do a urethane leading edge if you ask for it.
Terry - FireFly # 95
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: thrust, measurement, prop setting |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Paul,
You have 2 choices. With the engine mounted on the plane or engine
stand, you can either have it push on a scale, or pull on a scale. A 47hp
503 swinging a kolb wood 2-blade gets 275lbs thrust & a 64hp 582 with a
3-blade Precision Prop will generate 360 lbs of thrust. A bathroom scale
tops out around 350 & the middle of the range is most accurate, so a its not
a great option, besides, if its on the plane, its hard to push & not hurt a
kolb nose. Pulling on a spring scale is the most common way as all you need
is level, hard ground & a stout post or car to tie to, & the tail wheel is
strong enough to handle the thrust. Finding a cheap 360 plus lb. tension
scale is not easy. Using pullies to get a reduction for a smaller scale
does not work well as the friction loss it high & unreliable. You could
make a 2:1 lever, pull on the short side & have long side push against a
bathroom scale & double the reading. I was going to find a surplus
piston/cylinder capable of handling 500lb, fill it with oil, put a pressure
guage on it, calibrate the guage in 5lb increments in the range I need & use
it for a pull guage. I have since found an electronic freight scale with a
remote screen/display at Sam's Club for $40 on their discount shelf & will
mount it on my engine stand. They actually sell electronic pull scales just
for this application but I never seen one yet for under $150.
The static thrust will give you a good indication on how it will
perform, more so in the climb mode than in the top speed mode. I have found
I needed to pitch my props about 12% below the highest attainable full
throttle thrust to get an acceptable cruise setting. If I pitched for
maximum static thrust, depending on the prop, I sometimes would accelerate
extremely fast but then it would barely attain flight speed, it would just
peter out. To start out, increase pitch untill your engine is pulled down
about 300rpm below its maximum rpm. That will get you in the ball park.
Richard Swiderski
Ocala FL
SlingShot with soon to be Tubo 3cylinder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: thrust
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Here's one for the motor heads. How does one measure how much thrust a
given engine/prop is producing? And once this info is obtained can one
figure out how well the engine will perform?
>
> pp
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Cleaning Up The FireFly Continues. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Jack, don't wait for the nicrome wire, use stainless safety wire instead.
Years ago I needed to cut out a bunch of leading edge false ribs from foam
and used regular stainless safety wire to do it with. Built a tension bow
from wood with a stout spring at one end and used that to tighten the wire.
For resistance and power, I used a 12 volt 6 amp battery charger and added
a couple old fog lamps I had laying in a box. By adding or subtracting
lamps, (high tech, huh?) I was able to come up with a load that would get
the wire hot enough to cut the foam very smoothly without getting it too
hot. It was a messy rig, what with wires and lamps, but it worked good.
One thought - Having read a bit on flutter, there is a possibility that
taking the trailing edges on the ailerons to a knife edge may make them
more flutter prone. Plus, you will inevitably be adding a tad more weight
to the aileron trailing edges.
Make haste slowly and carefully! I have seen Kolb aileron flutter and it's
not pretty.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 05:08 PM 8/25/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
>FireFliers & Kolbers,
>
>On the last trip to Painton from Perryville, there was a little cross wind
>from the west. It gave me one of the best test flights on the new
>engine. Running the Victor 1+ at 5,200 rpm, the average ground speed
>point to point was 56 mph, and the fuel burn was 2.08 gph. This gives a
>four gallon range of 108 miles. I am finding that the faster I run the
>engine, the better range I am getting. Evidently, the drag profile
>reduction due to lower wing attack angle is greater than the increase in
>parasitic drag due to increased speed, and maybe the engine performance is
>moving toward a sweet spot too. It will take several more trips at higher
>engine rpms to find out.
>
>This trip has given me more encouragement to add more fairings to try
>stretch fuel a little further. I have been adding fairings to the aileron
>torque tubes and to the angle side of the ailerons. These fairings reduce
>the prop clearance to just a little under four inches. From using
>clearance test strips in the past, I believe the IVO will not hit the
>fairings. Calculations indicate that these fairings should reduce the hp
>requirement to fly 55 mph by about 0.62 hp. Tomorrow I will be cutting
>out foam fairing pieces for the aileron push rod tubes. Once these are
>installed, another 0.19 hp will be saved. Cutting out foam pieces on a
>table scroll saw is a good activity for a couple of hours on a hot
>day. But gluing them into place etc. is much more fun.
>
>The last big drag reduction will be fairing in the 5/16 tubes on the
>trailing edges of the ailerons and the tail feathers. The gluing of one
>inch thick foam pieces to too laborious to think about. I have tried two
>things that ended up in glorious failures. I am waiting for some nicrom
>wire so that I can make a foam hot wire cutter, and then I will try
>again. What makes this one so encouraging is that calculations show that
>by fairing in these little edges will save another 0.78 hp. at 55 mph.
>
>Don,
>
>I believe you met Jerry Deckard and Richard Hoyer. Jerry flys out of
>Poplar Bluff, MO, and Richard Hoyer flys from a grass strip at Painton,
>MO. This is were EAA Chapter 453 meets. They have asked me several times
>to make the trip, but family or spousal duties keep me from making the trip.
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Jackson, MO
>
>
>Jack & Louise Hart
>jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: uncle Craig engine faring |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
The way this list is set up, attachments will not appear. You need to go
down below to where the PHOTO SHARE thing is and add them there. It takes a
day or so for them to show up because Matt has to load them manually.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 06:56 PM 8/25/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
>
>I just got this computer and MSN having trouble with attachments I tried
>earlier to send pics but had delivery failure. here go's another try for a
>couple attachments
>uncle
>Craig
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Foam cutter |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 8/25/03 11:20:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rwpike@charter.net writes:
> For resistance and power, I used a 12 volt 6 amp battery charger and added
> a couple old fog lamps I had laying in a box. By adding or subtracting
>
As usual, Brother Pike is right on; however, instead of the fog lamps you can
put in a dimmer switch [cheap from Lowe's]. Adjust for proper wire temp.
Shack
FS II
SC
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