Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Re: 2 Cycle Engine Oils (Jim)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: insufficient octane (Richard Pike)
3. 05:55 AM - 2 cycle oil (Jim Gerken)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: insufficient octane (Joe Allman)
5. 07:48 AM - Re: Fly-in campout: Oct. 20, 2003 (Kirk Smith)
6. 08:34 AM - Re: 3 mods (bryan green)
7. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: insufficient octane- alcohol (Daryl Hegyi)
8. 09:33 AM - 912 oil (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com)
9. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: insufficient octane (Richard Pike)
10. 12:30 PM - Re: 912 oil (John Hauck)
11. 12:50 PM - Re: 912 oil (J.D. Stewart)
12. 01:40 PM - Re: 912 oil (John Hauck)
13. 04:39 PM - Harley Davidson engine (DSmald@aol.com)
14. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: insufficient octane (John Cooley)
15. 05:07 PM - kolb list X-Planes Anyone have a Kolb ??? (BMWBikeCrz@aol.com)
16. 05:34 PM - Firestar (Dallas Shepherd)
17. 06:22 PM - Air map 100 (BMWBikeCrz@aol.com)
18. 06:25 PM - Re: 2 Cycle Engine Oils (Don Gherardini)
19. 06:38 PM - Re: First Firestar Flight (Gary robert voigt)
20. 06:41 PM - Re: Air map 100 (Robert Laird)
21. 06:52 PM - [QT]Fabric Rivet Size (george murphy)
22. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: insufficient octane- alcohol (Daryl Hegyi)
23. 07:11 PM - Re: [QT]Fabric Rivet Size (John Hauck)
24. 07:16 PM - Re: Air map 100 ()
25. 08:43 PM - Re: Air map 100 (Robert Laird)
26. 09:50 PM - Re: kolb list X-Planes Anyone have a Kolb ??? (Christopher J Armstrong)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 2 Cycle Engine Oils |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
Richard/others
What problems can occur by using 87 instead of 91 octane with a 532?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2 Cycle Engine Oils
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> I ran it one time in mine with no problems either,
> but I didn't make a habit out of it.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> do not archive
>
> At 05:15 PM 9/16/03 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> >Richard,
> >
> >I have been using 87 octane in my 532 with no problems.
> >
> >Jim
> >Mark III
> >Charlotte, NC
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
> >To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2 Cycle Engine Oils
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
> > >
> > > Correction: not all Rotax two strokes tolerate 87 octane.
> > > The 532 requires 91.5 octane minimum.
> > >
> > > Richard Pike
> > > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: insufficient octane |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
The biggest problem would be spark knock, which can damage your engine.
Also, 87 octane gas burns hotter than 93 octane gas.
If your ignition timing was retarded by a couple degrees, then the 532
would probably tolerate the lower octane without knocking, but that causes
a loss of power.
For an in depth look at the subject, try
http://www.dynopower.freeserve.co.uk/nitrous_oxide/fuels_detonation_preignit
ion.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:34 AM 9/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Richard/others
>
>What problems can occur by using 87 instead of 91 octane with a 532?
>
>Jim
Message 3
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09/17/2003 07:55:18 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Gerken <gerken@us.ibm.com>
>Time: 12:38:32 PM PST US
>From: "Harry Wingert" <Geezertwo@cox.net>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2 Cycle Engine Oils
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Harry Wingert" <Geezertwo@cox.net>
>Hello Jim,
>I have been using AmsOil for over 15 years. First in a Kowsaki on my
>Phantom Ultralight. I mixed an 8 oz. bottle to 6 gal. of gas. That is a
>little less than the 100/1 mixture recommended. I never had a problem and
>flew it for about 200 hours before selling it. I now have a MKIII 582 and
>am using the AmsOil 2000 racing oil. With the oil injected, I don't have
to
>mix it anymore. I recommend AmsOil to all my flying friends in the Omaha
>area. A couple of PPG flyers are also using it and have had no problems
at
>all. It's not cheap but when it comes to oil and other maintenance that
>isn't my main concern.
>Hope this helps.
>Regards,
>Harry Wingert
Harry, how many hours do you have on your 582 using Amsoil? Just curious
'cause I coudn't get past about 100 hours using Amsoil in a 1997 582 on a
Mkiii, due to buildup sticking the lower rings tight. At 118 hours, a tear
down revealed two stuck rings that no available solvent could soften, so
they were pryed out and replaced. That was with injection system
operational. Next 70 hours was using premix (injex removed), and using
their 100:1 product. Same results, new lower rings were again needed.
Amsoil technical personell were contacted and could not help nor suggest a
solvent. Solvents tried included carb cleaner, dip-can engine cleaner
(from Napa, label suggested dipping for an hour, I progressively soaked for
up to a week with no softening), straight MEK, Lacquer thinner, and of
course Seafoam soak.
BTW, contrary to popular mis-belief, the lower rings could not be inspected
by looking through the exhaust port. They were always stuck first and
worst on the intake side. Other carbon in the chamber and on the piston
did not exceed 0.020" thickness. Rotax recommends inspection at 50 hours,
I would take this recommendation seriously if I was still running a 2
stroke. AND, compression still measured 135 lbs per cylinder when rings
were stuck their worst. I was very tempted to pull out the lower rings and
not replace them. The top ring was doing all the work anyway.
Details: Rotax dual radiator, run 160 degrees with thermostat. Jetting was
always done to attempt to keep temps as high as possible without exceeding
1200 EGT. Fuel was always 89 octane Amoco, octane chosen to compensate
for octane loss during storage after mixing with oil (storage in sealed
steel drum, for as much as three weeks from purchase and mix date, then was
run through my pickup and fresh obtained, records were kept to ensure no
fuel older than three weeks was run) . No performance issues were ever
experienced, no lack of power even when lower rings were completely stuck
and leaking, no misses, no pre-ignition, no engine outs.
I don't have any answers, only this experience. In the past, full
sythetics have served me well, even in two strokes. I think that in the
smaller engines that get run real hard all the time, they stay clean. But
the bigger engines probably get throttled back enough to build up. Again,
only theories, and everybody has an opinion.
Good luck.
Jim Gerken
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: insufficient octane |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
It's been my experience 2 strokes run hotter on higher octanes.
My old Kaw 440 ran hot on 93 and ran significantly cooler on 87.
It was explained to me that the industry raises the octane levels with
alcohol. Hence the hotter temps. I can recall looking at one website that
proposed there was enough alcohol in 93 octane pump gas to suspend a
teaspoon of water. Maybe that's why you never hear of water in autos
anymore????
Some folks believe that the octane level in gas stored in plastic decreases
during storage. (as little as 2 weeks). I'm not sure if this is true but
it makes me wonder about starting out at the minimums.
I flow both-just my opinions,
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: insufficient octane
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
The biggest problem would be spark knock, which can damage your engine.
Also, 87 octane gas burns hotter than 93 octane gas.
If your ignition timing was retarded by a couple degrees, then the 532
would probably tolerate the lower octane without knocking, but that causes
a loss of power.
For an in depth look at the subject, try
http://www.dynopower.freeserve.co.uk/nitrous_oxide/fuels_detonation_preignit
ion.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:34 AM 9/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Richard/others
>
>What problems can occur by using 87 instead of 91 octane with a 532?
>
>Jim
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in campout: Oct. 20, 2003 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Subject line should read Sept 20. Kirk
Do not archive
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Thanks for the info Woody I believe all of these will help me out since I
store mine in a trailer.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 3 mods
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
>
>
> To the new builders and some of the old ones. There are 3 modifications
I
> think should be included on each new Kolb built and the old ones
> retrofitted. These are no cost or low cost mods that greatly improve our
> planes
> Padre Pikes idea about moving the aileron rods inward by drilling new
> holes in the torque tube bracket.
> Rick Neilson has a great way of attaching his gap seal. He uses a
slightly
> longer bolt on the universal joint on the wing fold pivot. These bolts
> protude up through the rear of the gap seal and a wing nut and safety pin
> hold it all together.
> I hold my tail wires to the bottom post with clevises. The tangs are
> bolted permanently to the rudder post. It is a lot easier than trying to
> screw that wing nut on while it tightens the tail cables.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: insufficient octane- alcohol |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Daryl Hegyi" <dhegyi@telus.net>
Some manufacturers do use alcohol to raise octane levels. I use Esso or
Shell exclusively (here in Canada) .
To check for alcohol, use this technique:
Take a small glass bottle (jar or juice bottle) and make a mark about 1/3
from the bottom. Fill to the line with water. Then fill the bottle (not
quite to the top) with suspect gasoline, close the lid, and shake
vigorously. Allow to settle, and examine the water level.
If there was alcohol in the gas, the water level will now be above the mark,
because the alcohol is now disolved in the water instead of the gas.
regards,
Daryl Hegyi (Kolb Twinstar Mk II.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: insufficient octane
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
>
> It's been my experience 2 strokes run hotter on higher octanes.
>
> My old Kaw 440 ran hot on 93 and ran significantly cooler on 87.
>
> It was explained to me that the industry raises the octane levels with
> alcohol. Hence the hotter temps. I can recall looking at one website
that
> proposed there was enough alcohol in 93 octane pump gas to suspend a
> teaspoon of water. Maybe that's why you never hear of water in autos
> anymore????
>
> Some folks believe that the octane level in gas stored in plastic
decreases
> during storage. (as little as 2 weeks). I'm not sure if this is true but
> it makes me wonder about starting out at the minimums.
>
> I flow both-just my opinions,
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: insufficient octane
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> The biggest problem would be spark knock, which can damage your engine.
> Also, 87 octane gas burns hotter than 93 octane gas.
> If your ignition timing was retarded by a couple degrees, then the 532
> would probably tolerate the lower octane without knocking, but that causes
> a loss of power.
> For an in depth look at the subject, try
>
http://www.dynopower.freeserve.co.uk/nitrous_oxide/fuels_detonation_preignit
> ion.htm
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> At 07:34 AM 9/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
> >
> >Richard/others
> >
> >What problems can occur by using 87 instead of 91 octane with a 532?
> >
> >Jim
>
>
Message 8
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09/17/2003 12:33:23 PM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com
John H. and others:
Im sure you knew this already, but it was not mentioned in your post
so.........
According to Rotax, use of full synthetic oil in combination with 100LL
fuel can result in buildup of lead over time. Given your long
cross-country flights, I assume you use a fair amount of 100LL, so you may
want to consider a synthetic/petroleum blend. Lead buildup is apparently
not an issue when using a petroleum based oil.
Im also curious about your recent switch to the larger starter. Were you
experiencing the hard starting problems that some have with the 912S, or
just being proactive?
regards,
Erich Weaver
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: insufficient octane |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Back in the late 70's Dirt Bike magazine ran an article on different gas
brands and octanes, and Amoco Premium ran the coolest, don't remember what
was hottest, but regular typically ran hotter than premium. I do know that
my Rotax 277 would foul the plugs with lead balls on 87 octane leaded but
run smooth and behave itself on Amoco premium or 100LL. Not sure why.
It is very likely that if the octane in a gasoline was raised with alcohol
that your EGT's would go up.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:31 AM 9/17/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
>
>It's been my experience 2 strokes run hotter on higher octanes.
>
>My old Kaw 440 ran hot on 93 and ran significantly cooler on 87.
>
>It was explained to me that the industry raises the octane levels with
>alcohol. Hence the hotter temps. I can recall looking at one website that
>proposed there was enough alcohol in 93 octane pump gas to suspend a
>teaspoon of water. Maybe that's why you never hear of water in autos
>anymore????
>
>Some folks believe that the octane level in gas stored in plastic decreases
>during storage. (as little as 2 weeks). I'm not sure if this is true but
>it makes me wonder about starting out at the minimums.
>
>I flow both-just my opinions,
>
>Joe
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Erich/All:
I was aware of the Rotax recommendation to run
semi-synthetic oil when operating on 100LL.
I chose to run full synthetic based on operating temps.
Also on using Alcore TCP additive to scavenge the lead out
of the engine. I also change the oil more often than
required by the book.
Yes, on long cross country flight I use 100LL fuel
exclusively, unless someone happens along with a can of auto
fuel. The last several cross country flights I took
advantage of MOGAS available at some fields, 87 octane. If
I have 10 gal of 100LL in the tank, I do a little math, and
add the 87 octane mogas until I get close to my minimum of
91 octane. I haven't had any problems doing this and it
saves a little money in the long run.
The upgrade to a heavy duty starter will assist the 912S get
up to speed sooner and through the rpm range that
experiences gear box chatter on start up. It is something
Rotax is doing for us guys that got earlier 912S model
engines. All new 912S engines come with the heavy duty
starter and the slip clutch in place of the spring loaded
dogs for torsion vibration dampening. I am waiting on the
parts to come in to upgrade my 912S to current specs. The
starter is $200.00 plus my old starter, and the slip clutch
is $400.00. If the upgrades were not available at the
reduced prices, I would probably live without them. I am
not having that much problem, only occasionally. However,
it should increase the longevity of the 912S and pay for the
upgrades in the long run.
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart@inebraska.com>
You will love the new starter/clutch combo. I got one of the first engines
with them on, and the difference is like night and day when compared to
other planes with the older 912S. Mine fires instantly, with no chatter.
J.D. Stewart
UltraFun AirSports
http://www.ultrafunairsports.com
FlyChallenger E-mail list and Website Administrator
http://challenger.inebraska.com
TitanAircraft e-mail list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Titanaircraft/
>
> The upgrade to a heavy duty starter will assist the 912S get
> up to speed sooner and through the rpm range that
> experiences gear box chatter on start up. It is something
> Rotax is doing for us guys that got earlier 912S model
> engines. All new 912S engines come with the heavy duty
> starter and the slip clutch in place of the spring loaded
> dogs for torsion vibration dampening. I am waiting on the
> parts to come in to upgrade my 912S to current specs. The
> starter is $200.00 plus my old starter, and the slip clutch
> is $400.00. If the upgrades were not available at the
> reduced prices, I would probably live without them. I am
> not having that much problem, only occasionally. However,
> it should increase the longevity of the 912S and pay for the
> upgrades in the long run.
>
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> You will love the new starter/clutch combo.
> J.D. Stewart
Thanks JD/All:
Sometimes it is hard to commit $600.00 to something and not
"really" know if it is going to worth it or not.
Thanks again,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Harley Davidson engine |
NO_REAL_NAME@matronics.com
--> Kolb-List message posted by: DSmald@aol.com
group:
Someone may have allready mentioned this, I do not read the list as
religiously as I should, but I found this interesting, a wright flyer replica with
a
harley engine. I thought it was interesting, as someone onlist was considering
a harley engine.
<A HREF="http://wrightflyer.usurf.usu.edu/">http://wrightflyer.usurf.usu.edu/
Darren Smalec, FS1, 2- strokin' ,central MI.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: insufficient octane |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
"Snip"
-------Original Message-------
From: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: insufficient octane
It was explained to me that the industry raises the octane levels with
alcohol. Hence the hotter temps. I can recall looking at one website that
proposed there was enough alcohol in 93 octane pump gas to suspend a
teaspoon of water. Maybe that's why you never hear of water in autos
anymore????
"End snip"
Hi Joe/Gang,
I work in the Blending and Shipping section of a 325,000 barrel per day
Chevron oil refinery in south Mississippi. One of the main things we do is
blend gasoline. I can't speak for all brands but can tell you positively
that we do not use any alcohol in any of our gasoline. We blend 93 supreme
and 87 octane and use the two mixed at the proper ratio to make 89 octane
midgrade. We also blend 100/130 avgas and a grade of gas known as ULCQ that
has to meet certain government specifications and is used by Detroit for
mileage ratings. We load thousands of barrels per day on barges, ships and
trucks. Just because you buy Exxon, Shell or whatever it doesn't mean that
it was blended in said refinery. We sell gas to many different brands
including some of the ones mentioned above, who then sells it as their brand
The main difference is that it has that companies particular brand of
detergent in the gas and meets said companies specs and all companies have
to meet certain specs at dictated by ASTM and API. We have two other brands
of detergent other than our own that we inject into the gas as it's being
loaded onto the tank trucks. I think alcohol is used more in the west than
anywhere else but don't know the statistics. There was a big discussion over
this a while back. I searched the archives and am copying a reply I made to
a similar question awhile back. Here it is...........
All gasoline has to meet a recognized set of standards. These are regulated
by API (American Petroleum Institute) see this link
http://api-ec.api.org/aboutapi/index.cfm?bitmask=001010001000000000 and ASTM
(American Society for Testing and Materials) Most of the current testing
methods in use have been developed by ASTM. Check this link for more info
http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/ABOUT/aboutASTM.html?L+mystore+elby
7771+1042674481
The recipes are not mandated. Each company can use whatever recipe they
choose as long as the finished product meets the industry standard specs.
These "recipes" will vary depending on the type of crude oils being
distilled and the type of "reforming" processes used to make higher
quality/octane components. We sample our component rundown tanks on a
regular basis and the info is feed into a computer program. When we get
ready to blend for example a blend of 93 octane supreme then the required
info is fed into the computer system and based on the components available a
recipe is developed. Some of the criteria that the computer program uses to
determine the recipe is also determined by the time of year and the RVP
requirements (Reid Vapor Pressure) for the season. We make gasoline with 5
different RVP values depending on the time of season and the place that the
fuel is going. We make a special low vapor pressure gasoline for the Atlanta
area in the summer and the other grades are known as summer grade,
intermediate grade, transition grade and winter grade RVP. The major
difference in these fuels are the vapor pressure only. We have cutoff dates
that we must meet when selling these various grades of gasoline. In other
words after a certain date we can no longer sell winter grade gas. It has to
be transition grade and so on. Of course summer grade has the lowest RVP
value because of the season and so forth. Most of our fuel either goes to
the Florida panhandle, Tampa, Port Everglades area via barges and ships and
up the east coast via pipeline. Our average barrels per day of gasoline
blended is 129,000 BPD.
The additive packages are formulated by the major players making gas. They
are primary a cleaner for fuel injectors etc. I don't know the particulars
of getting it approved for use but am sure that it has to be approved by a
governing body. The Chevron additive is know as "Techron". I don't know what
Exxon, Shell etc call theirs. Techron is injected into the gas as it's
loaded at our truck rack for the local market. We also have Exxon's additive
for trucks picking up gas to go to the Exxon stations and a generic additive
for the other brands. This is handled by the Marketing folks, which is a
separate organization within the Chevron/Texaco refining company. No
additive is put
into the fuel going on ships and barges or up the pipeline system. This is
done later on at the final destination.
Again I will repeat what I said in my first post about gasoline. I don't
want people getting mad because they are buying Exxon gas that may have
actually been blended in a Chevron refinery. All gasoline has to meet
minimum industry requirements. The requirement is the same for Exxon as it
is for Chevron, Shell etc. If you are buying Exxon you are still getting
their additive package. I will add this bit of info to chew on. Some
companies blend gasoline to meet the minimum requirement. If it is supposed
to be 93 octane supreme, then the gas is blended to meet the 93 octane
minimum requirement. If the octane is 93.9 then that is known as "give-away"
or blending "fat" because you have to use higher quality/octane components
which of course are more valuable. If you want the most profit possible and
you have the equipment to control with then it makes sense to try to hit the
93 minimum as close as possible. Some companies will blend gasoline straight
onto a ship and therefore are willing to have some "give-away" to make sure
it is on-test. I think this is the reason some people say a particular brand
of gas runs better than another.
The reformulated gas referred to in Don's post just has to meet more
stringent guidelines as I understand it. I believe this is currently for
the California market. We don't make reformulated gas at this time or any
gas with alcohol in it.
Ok guys, as Paul Petty asked me in an earlier post, I'm out of gas.
Take Care,
John Cooley
Message 15
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| Subject: | kolb list X-Planes Anyone have a Kolb ??? |
HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD@matronics.com, HTML_FONT_FACE_ODD@matronics.com,
HTML_MESSAGE@matronics.com, MIME_LONG_LINE_QP@matronics.com,
NO_REAL_NAME@matronics.com
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
I have X-Plane 7
Has anyone built a kolb for this sim ?
Dave
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954@centurytel.net>
Kolbers: I have a friend looking at a Firestar with a Rotax 503 engine and
it needs decarbed. Have any of you an idea how much this cost to have it
done. It has 244 hours on it. I have no idea of what kind of care its had,
but I have talked to the owner and seen the plane and it looks like he takes
pretty good care of things. He has moved here from Arizona. Too many
thermos I guess.
Dallas Shepherd
Norfork, Arkansas
Do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
Anyone using a airmap100 ?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 2 Cycle Engine Oils |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Jim/Gang,
Jeez..leave on biz fer a few days and it takes all day to catch up in here!
You guys have struck a nerve that goes right to my heart, as earlier in my
early carrer, I was a young engineer on an engine design team in sweden for
a couple of years developing 2 stroke engines, (hope you guys wont hold
that against me) and I would like to share some thoughts here on this
subject.
When an engine manufacturer makes a recommendation as to an oil mix ratio
for a 2 cycle engine, here are the criteria we use.
Volume of oil per revolution needed to lubricate all the parts...or one
might say..the part that needs the most lubrication, which is almost always
the cylinder wall/piston skirt. Todays bearings. both roller and ball need
much less oil to keep the lubricated at the rpm levels we run than the
skirt/wall film we need to keep the piston and cylinder wall from touching.
Volume of oil in fuel mix at average air/fuel ratio of 27 to one (for a 2
stroke) this usually is an industry standard for most power with acceptable
heat, according to the engine/cooling systems heat dissapating ability.
Add a safety factor to compensate for adverse conditions..et.al.---lean
condition...water...etc...
now its pretty simple men...we have a VOLUME requirement....and we can
figure out the volume of oil in the volume of fuel mixture that is going
thru our engines
PEtroleum based 2 stroke lube oil has lots of stuff in it...but generally
only one for lubrication...this is called "bright stock"...the other stuff
does other jobs....(STP is almost pure bright stock)
now...SAE , ISO, JASO, and other standards outfits give the oil companies
and engine manufacturers some common ground to work from, and these really
are the glue that makes the whole market work. You see if you make mix oil
and put in more nright stock than the other guy then you might be able to
say that you can run this oil in an engine that is designed for 50 to
one..but you can run it at 100 to one with our oil. BEcause we have "better
oil".
Manufacturers do NOT design engines or even test them based on standards for
these "other" oils.
HOwever...an Aircooled 2 stroke is really only about 30 % air cooled....and
70% fuel cooled....HUH?....yes...the piston dissapates heat by 2 means in
any engine...one way is by passing the heat to the cylinder wall, and the
other is by being sprayed by the cold fuel mixture...which takes out MUCH
more heat on a 2 stroke because it hits both sides..the bottom first..then
the top.
To make matters more complicated, gasoline has a better cooling effect than
oil...so PURE gas cools better than mixed gas, and the MORE oil in the
mixture the less heat is dissapated by the mixture. I used to give service
meetings in the USA after coming back and I always did a demonstration using
a chainsaw and 3 cans of fuel...one at 32:1, one at 40:1, and one at 50: 1
fuel mixtures in each can. With a thermocouple under the plug , i would
start and run the saw ( which was designed for 50:1) and get it up to max
temps....then shut it down, drain the gas, and fill it up, with the next
ratio...always using the 50 :1 first. I never did tire of watching the eyes
of all those "expert " mechanics as the temps always were higher on the
heavier oil mixtures........2 factors were at work here...but that is for
another discussion...suffice it to say....Thats just how it is!
I am NOT recommending 100 to one...75:1 or any other ratio than what the
design team who created the engine designated.
OH boy...now i'm really mixed up right?....
lets get back to the engine manufacturers designated ratio, and how we pick
that ratio.
A manufacturer that must sell in a world market faces the biggest problem
...different standards in different countries being the biggest, but since
the USA is the biggest market for just about anything...we look at what the
generally accepted standards of available oil is in the USA and design and
test our engines with oil that meets these standards and reccomend a ratio
that will insure the volume of lubricating oil is sufficient.
Have you ever seen an owners manual that recommends an oil by brand?....only
if that company buys and bottles oil under their name...and most dont. So we
manufacturers recommend a STANDARD.....usually by an SAE number...or an ISO
number...or JASO if you are in japan or the east..Due to lawsuits in the
USA, manufacturers have found that you CANNOT be absolved of warranty
responsibility in the USA if a engine owner uses an oil that meets the same
standard as the brand you recommended in your published material....so we
all quit recommending oil by brand.
I wont even begin to attempt to say here what oil a fella ought to use by
brand....but I will say that your engine was designed to run a specific oil
ratio by the design team that developed the engine...and that VOLUME
requirement is what you should follow. I dont want to get into any
discussion about 100 to one ratios and such....only to mention that remember
this also...a carb is a vacumm operated piece of machinery, andthe engine
"sucks" the fuel thru the jets. A higher volume of oil in the mix gives us a
higher viscosity, and it does not "suck " as much of this mix as it does a
lesser ratio, so if you dont re-adjust your carb jet when changing ratios,
you could be in for trouble...either from a lean condition....or from a rich
condition.....they both will shorten the life of your engine....one
quickly....and one a little more slowly.
Jim, use a big name, high quality oil and be sure it fullfills the ISO
minimums that the engine manufacturer says to use. dont mix it any higher
...or lesser of a ratio than they say either....
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
800-626-7326
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: First Firestar Flight |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Gary robert voigt" <johndeereantique@qwest.net>
Jim, congrats on the first flight and i'm glad everything went well..... btw
my mother was born in Viroqua and i'm very familar with that area.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
Excelsior, mn.
"J.L.Turner" wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "J.L.Turner" <jimturner@mwt.net>
>
> Fellow Kolbers:
>
> Last week I posted an inquiry regarding whether I needed additional flight training
to fly my Firestar 1. Although I had completed my private pilot 40 hours
of classroom, 15 hours in a Cessna 172, 150+ hours in a powered parachute,
and had my Basic Flight Instructor rating in Powered Parachutes, the previous
owner insisted that the Kolb was difficult to fly and that I'd better take additional
lessons.
>
> This evening I went back to the airport, rolled the Firestar out, and was prepared
to once again just practice high speed taxi runs. This got old pretty quick!
The 3 mph wind was coming right down runway two niner. So I completed
a tax run back to the threshold of two niner, turned the nose around and pointed
the nose into the breeze. One more check of my instruments, a scan around
me for other aircraft and it was time to roll. Reading about frequent nose overs
in Kolbs made me very hesitant, but I built speed up slowly, feeling the tail
getting lighter and lighter. A quick glance to the airspeed indicator showed
25 mph and climbing. The Firestar was pointed perfectly straight and I poured
the coals to the 377. Once I was certain I was past stall speed, I eased
the stick back. WOW! Do these Kolbs climb like a rocket!!! The first inclination
is to cut the throttle back. But I knew better and dropped the nose a
tad and kept my airspeed at 55 mph. Once I'd gotten !
> to 1000' AGL, I leveled out and eased back on the throttle until I was maintaining
50 mph in level flight. For an hour straight I practiced turns and just
got used to the responsive handling of the Kolb. You guys were right.....the
Kolb scrubs off speed very fast and I consciously lowered the nose a little while
in turns.
>
> Finally it was time to test my skills by seeing if I could set the traildragger
down for the first time. Landing procedures I'd read on the list flooded through
my head. I knew I was supposed to fly it to the ground and keep the speed
up. I turned on my final for two niner, lowered the nose, and cut back a
little on the power. I passed the runway threshold at about 75' AGL, but I knew
I had about 3200' to eat up, if I had to. I kept the airspeed at about 40
mph, flew it to about 3' AGL, slowly cutting back the power, and then did a gentle
flare, bringing the Kolb down for a perfect landing.
>
> So it was rewarding evening. Everything I'd heard about the Kolb was true....that
it's a great little plane. The only thing I found was that I had to keep
just a little left rudder into it at all times. Anybody else have this experience?
Did you install a trim tab on the rudder?
>
> Thanks to all on the list who offered words of encouragement to me. I've enjoyed
reading on the posts and hope to join the Kolb Caravan next year!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim Turner
> Viroqua, WI
>
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
At 08:22 PM 9/17/2003, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
>
>Anyone using a airmap100 ?
Yup, been using it for a couple of years.
-- Robert
Message 21
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| Subject: | [QT]Fabric Rivet Size |
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAIiv/KqM6kE+7zyAZCAWAm8KAAAAQAAAAIprBCNYXJkqFDC/EH/TFsQEAAAAA@direcway.com>
tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,
HTML_60_70@matronics.com,
HTML_MESSAGE
HTML_MESSAGE (0.1 points) BODY: HTML.included.in.message.FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK.Forged.mail.pretending.to.be.from.MS.Outlook@matronics.com
(3.5 points)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: george murphy <geomurphy@direcway.com>
I am trying to find a local source for Fabric Rivets and I think they are
1/8 in dia. with a 3/8 head but am not sure of the exact size. Does anyone
know if this is the correct size?
George Murphy / Old Firestar reconstruction / Alpine Al
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: insufficient octane- alcohol |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Daryl Hegyi" <dhegyi@telus.net>
oops, this should read:
> If there was alcohol in the gas, the water level will now be BELOW the
mark,
> because the water is now dissolved in the alcohol which is dissolved in
the gas.
regards,
Daryl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daryl Hegyi" <dhegyi@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: insufficient octane- alcohol
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Daryl Hegyi" <dhegyi@telus.net>
>
> Some manufacturers do use alcohol to raise octane levels. I use Esso or
> Shell exclusively (here in Canada) .
>
> To check for alcohol, use this technique:
>
> Take a small glass bottle (jar or juice bottle) and make a mark about 1/3
> from the bottom. Fill to the line with water. Then fill the bottle (not
> quite to the top) with suspect gasoline, close the lid, and shake
> vigorously. Allow to settle, and examine the water level.
>
> If there was alcohol in the gas, the water level will now be above the
mark,
> because the alcohol is now disolved in the water instead of the gas.
>
> regards,
> Daryl Hegyi (Kolb Twinstar Mk II.)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Allman" <fisherallman@earthlink.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: insufficient octane
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman"
<fisherallman@earthlink.net>
> >
> > It's been my experience 2 strokes run hotter on higher octanes.
> >
> > My old Kaw 440 ran hot on 93 and ran significantly cooler on 87.
> >
> > It was explained to me that the industry raises the octane levels with
> > alcohol. Hence the hotter temps. I can recall looking at one website
> that
> > proposed there was enough alcohol in 93 octane pump gas to suspend a
> > teaspoon of water. Maybe that's why you never hear of water in autos
> > anymore????
> >
> > Some folks believe that the octane level in gas stored in plastic
> decreases
> > during storage. (as little as 2 weeks). I'm not sure if this is true
but
> > it makes me wonder about starting out at the minimums.
> >
> > I flow both-just my opinions,
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: insufficient octane
> >
> >
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
> >
> > The biggest problem would be spark knock, which can damage your engine.
> > Also, 87 octane gas burns hotter than 93 octane gas.
> > If your ignition timing was retarded by a couple degrees, then the 532
> > would probably tolerate the lower octane without knocking, but that
causes
> > a loss of power.
> > For an in depth look at the subject, try
> >
>
http://www.dynopower.freeserve.co.uk/nitrous_oxide/fuels_detonation_preignit
> > ion.htm
> >
> > Richard Pike
> > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> >
> > At 07:34 AM 9/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jim" <flykolb@carolina.rr.com>
> > >
> > >Richard/others
> > >
> > >What problems can occur by using 87 instead of 91 octane with a 532?
> > >
> > >Jim
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: [QT]Fabric Rivet Size |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I am trying to find a local source for Fabric Rivets
> George Murphy / Old Firestar reconstruction / Alpine Al
George/All:
Recommend you stick with fabric rivets supplied through the
Poly Fiber Dealers supply lines:
Jim and Dondi Miller
CALL TOLL FREE 1-877-877-3334
These folks will fix you up with the correct rivets and get
them to you in a hurry.
Looking forward to seeing them again at the Kolb Flyin in
London, KY, next week.
john h
Message 24
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REFERENCES
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
> Anyone using a airmap100 ?
Just bought one from Flight Essentials a couple weeks ago, seems like a good
unit but I have not played with it much yet.
They are really discounted right now.
Denny Rowe
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
At 09:17 PM 9/17/2003, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>
> > Anyone using a airmap100 ?
>
>Just bought one from Flight Essentials a couple weeks ago, seems like a good
>unit but I have not played with it much yet.
>They are really discounted right now.
They are discounted because the versions with the larger screens have just
come out/are coming out. Still a terrific little GPS, even with the small
screen.
-- R
Message 26
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| Subject: | kolb list X-Planes Anyone have a Kolb ??? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher J Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
http://www.x-plane.org/
this place has 2000 planes for x-planes 6 and a growing number for 7 I
am not sure if there is a kolb yet. I run 7.1 now and will probably
make a firestar II for it some time. Only takes an hour to get a rough
plane flying. Could spend hours making it look real nice.
Topher
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE@matronics.com; HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD@matronics.com;
HTML_FONT_FACE_ODD@matronics.com; HTML_MESSAGE@matronics.com;
MIME_LONG_LINE_QP@matronics.com; NO_REAL_NAME@matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: kolb list X-Planes Anyone have a Kolb ???
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
I have X-Plane 7
Has anyone built a kolb for this sim ?
Dave
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