Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Re: private pilot (Larry Bourne)
2. 07:02 AM - CDI (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com)
3. 07:54 AM - Re: CDI (ul15rhb@juno.com)
4. 07:59 AM - Re: Vortex generators installed (jerb)
5. 08:32 AM - Re: CDI (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com)
6. 08:34 AM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Bob Bean)
7. 08:49 AM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Richard Pike)
8. 08:54 AM - Re: CDI (Richard Pike)
9. 10:34 AM - Re: CDI (ul15rhb@juno.com)
10. 04:19 PM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Ben Ransom)
11. 05:00 PM - Re: Vortex generators installed (HShack@aol.com)
12. 05:17 PM - questions&answers (Paul Petty)
13. 06:51 PM - Re: questions&answers (Larry Bourne)
14. 08:21 PM - Re: questions&answers (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: private pilot |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Renter's (non-owners) insurance is only about $350.00 a year from Avemco,
and is something that is in your own best interest to have, whether you fly
the 150, or rent, or borrow another plane. You can bet I have it, to cover
my butt in case I tweak a rental plane. (The local FBO requires it on all
rentals anyway) The owner should have his own coverage anyway, and I think
it would be a bad mistake to fly any plane that isn't insured. You'd be
wide open. After you have your license, or when your plane is flying,
cancel the policy and get the refund for the time you didn't need. More
food for thought along those lines, is builders' insurance that covers you
thru the building process, in case of, say, fire, flood, or theft. I forget
for sure, but I think it's also around $350.00 - $400.00 a year. Right now,
Vamoose is in the A&P's hangar, along with a lot of other equipment, etc.
What if there was a fire up there ?? Or somebody decides he likes the
engine, the whole plane, or whatever. I'm covered, and tho' there may be
controversy over the necessity, I sure feel a lot better.
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: private pilot
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Can one receive a check ride in an Experimental aircraft for a Private
Pilot certificate or does it have to be done in a certified GA airplane?
Pop's sold the 150 today to one of our friends that has been allowed to use
it for his flight training (for free) and the new owner has extended the
offer to me but I don't know if I feel good about flying it solo for the
rest of my training. Insurance, bending something ect.....
>
> pp
> do not archive
>
>
Message 2
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10/17/2003 09:01:46 AM,
Serialize complete at 10/17/2003 09:01:46 AM,
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10/17/2003 09:01:29 AM,
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10/17/2003 09:01:31 AM,
Serialize complete at 10/17/2003 09:01:31 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
I currently fly a Firestar with a 377 that is silver in color. I picked
up a spare 377 that is black. My question is; is there any way to check
externally if an engine has CDI ignition?
The Flying Farmer
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Dwight,
The CDI ignition is under the intake manifold and attached to the engine. You can't
miss it as it has spark plug wires coming out of it.
Ralph
Original Firestar
16 years flying it
-- Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
I currently fly a Firestar with a 377 that is silver in color. I picked
up a spare 377 that is black. My question is; is there any way to check
externally if an engine has CDI ignition?
The Flying Farmer
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Question, VG's allow the wing to fly at less angle of attach than without
them? I would think its just the other way around. Wouldn't they allow
the wing to fly with a higher angle of attack (required to slow down more)
before stalling? Am I missing something here.
jerb
At 07:46 PM 10/16/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 10/13/03 9:11:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>rwpike@charter.net writes:
>
>
> > Flight testing was with mixed results, mainly because I think my airspeed
> > indicator is terribly non-linear below about 40 indicated, so I can't tell
> > if it is flying/stalling any slower or not. It feels like it is, for what
> > that's worth. It still stalls at the same indicated airspeed as before (26
> > indicated, 35 actual according to the GPS), but at a much higher apparent
> > deck angle. The stall is slightly more aggressive than before, it has a
> > clean break, both straight ahead, power off and accelerated, but still
> > fairly mild & easy to live with.
> >
> >
>
>I believe Vortex Generators help mostly where there is a higher stall speed
>[before they are installed]. If your stall speed is already low, then their
>effect is not as great.
>
>
>I'll be surprised if your top speed decreased because of the VG's; since they
>allow your wing to fly at less of an angle of attack there should be less
>drag.
>
>Howard Shackleford
>FS II
>SC
>
>
Message 5
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10/17/2003 10:32:13 AM,
Serialize complete at 10/17/2003 10:32:13 AM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003)
at
10/17/2003 10:31:56 AM,
Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003)
at
10/17/2003 10:31:58 AM,
Serialize complete at 10/17/2003 10:31:58 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
Nope, my two coils are mounted vertically on top of each other beside the
cooling fan, with leads running down thru a grommet behind the recoil. No
box anywhere in site. Kind of sounds like I have points don't it!
ul15rhb@juno.com
Sent by: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
10/17/2003 09:37 AM
Please respond to kolb-list
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
cc: (bcc: Dwight Kottke/CNTR/HUT/HTI)
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CDI
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Dwight,
The CDI ignition is under the intake manifold and attached to the engine.
You can't miss it as it has spark plug wires coming out of it.
Ralph
Original Firestar
16 years flying it
-- Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
I currently fly a Firestar with a 377 that is silver in color. I picked
up a spare 377 that is black. My question is; is there any way to check
externally if an engine has CDI ignition?
The Flying Farmer
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Not missing anything..it works both ways, (in theory). You should be able
to carry a higher angle near stall AND a lesser angle at cruise. -BB
jerb wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
>Question, VG's allow the wing to fly at less angle of attach than without
>them? I would think its just the other way around. Wouldn't they allow
>the wing to fly with a higher angle of attack (required to slow down more)
>before stalling? Am I missing something here.
>jerb
>
>
>At 07:46 PM 10/16/03 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
>>
>>In a message dated 10/13/03 9:11:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>rwpike@charter.net writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Flight testing was with mixed results, mainly because I think my airspeed
>>>indicator is terribly non-linear below about 40 indicated, so I can't tell
>>>if it is flying/stalling any slower or not. It feels like it is, for what
>>>that's worth. It still stalls at the same indicated airspeed as before (26
>>>indicated, 35 actual according to the GPS), but at a much higher apparent
>>>deck angle. The stall is slightly more aggressive than before, it has a
>>>clean break, both straight ahead, power off and accelerated, but still
>>>fairly mild & easy to live with.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I believe Vortex Generators help mostly where there is a higher stall speed
>>[before they are installed]. If your stall speed is already low, then their
>>effect is not as great.
>>
>>
>>I'll be surprised if your top speed decreased because of the VG's; since they
>>allow your wing to fly at less of an angle of attack there should be less
>>drag.
>>
>>Howard Shackleford
>>FS II
>>SC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I think we are talking about the other end of the speed spectrum. At cruise
speed, the MKIII wing has about a 5-7 degree angle of attack relative to
the horizon, and even at max speed, it still has an obvious positive angle
of attack relative to the horizon in level flight. The question would be
whether or not VG's reduce that angle of attack. Since I never actually
measured what that angle of attack was at max speed (Although I sort of
remember what it looked like) all I could do is go fly and see if it looks
like it is now less. Not very scientific.
I do disagree with Howard, I doubt that there is enough of an angle of
attack reduction to help, but it is sort of a subjective suspicion rather
than an objective rationale, maybe he is right.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 10:04 AM 10/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
>Question, VG's allow the wing to fly at less angle of attach than without
>them? I would think its just the other way around. Wouldn't they allow
>the wing to fly with a higher angle of attack (required to slow down more)
>before stalling? Am I missing something here.
>jerb
>
>
>At 07:46 PM 10/16/03 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
<snip>
> >I'll be surprised if your top speed decreased because of the VG's; since
> they
> >allow your wing to fly at less of an angle of attack there should be less
> >drag.
> >
> >Howard Shackleford
> >FS II
> >SC
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Points ignition has two coils, one per spark plug, and an external oblong
ignition damping box. The CDI ignition has only one coil and both spark
wires originate from it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 09:01 AM 10/17/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
>
>I currently fly a Firestar with a 377 that is silver in color. I picked
>up a spare 377 that is black. My question is; is there any way to check
>externally if an engine has CDI ignition?
>
>The Flying Farmer
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Dwight,
Yep, your new engine has points. The black CDI does not have a box, but a molded
housing for the coil and capacitor discharge circuit.
Ralph
-- Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
Nope, my two coils are mounted vertically on top of each other beside the
cooling fan, with leads running down thru a grommet behind the recoil. No
box anywhere in site. Kind of sounds like I have points don't it!
ul15rhb@juno.com
Sent by: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
10/17/2003 09:37 AM
Please respond to kolb-list
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
cc: (bcc: Dwight Kottke/CNTR/HUT/HTI)
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CDI
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ul15rhb@juno.com
Dwight,
The CDI ignition is under the intake manifold and attached to the engine.
You can't miss it as it has spark plug wires coming out of it.
Ralph
Original Firestar
16 years flying it
-- Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
I currently fly a Firestar with a 377 that is silver in color. I picked
up a spare 377 that is black. My question is; is there any way to check
externally if an engine has CDI ignition?
The Flying Farmer
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
--- Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
> I think we are talking about the other end of the speed spectrum. At
> cruise
> speed, the MKIII wing has about a 5-7 degree angle of attack relative
> to
> the horizon, and even at max speed, it still has an obvious positive
> angle
> of attack relative to the horizon in level flight. The question would
> be
> whether or not VG's reduce that angle of attack. Since I never
> actually
> measured what that angle of attack was at max speed
The question can be avoided if we go back to what VGs really do. My
hack definition: they disturb the airflow, introducing small turbulent
flows in the boundary layer of an airfoil. This turbulence makes a
thicker "more energized" boundary layer, reducing the tendency for the
laminar airflow to separate from the boundary layer. Separation stall, so avoiding
separation means stall speeds happen at greater AOA.
So, if the laminar flow is not trying to separate in our so-called
"high speeds" and low AOA, then VGs and their affect of turbulating the
boundary layer are irrelevant. I think the only thing left is for them
to create drag. The right shape and placement can minimize this,
leaving just the already agreed upon low speed benefits. Pin stripes
on the other hand, are well known to increase speed by several knots,
regardless of AOA. :)
BTW Richard, I'm impressed you were able to make and install VGs in
just 3+ hours. It takes me that long just to gas up! I plan on VGs
too -- will play it chicken and start out with adhesive attachment.
-Ben
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 10/17/03 11:05:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ulflyer@verizon.net writes:
> Question, VG's allow the wing to fly at less angle of attach than without
> them? I would think its just the other way around. Wouldn't they allow
> the wing to fly with a higher angle of attack (required to slow down more)
> before stalling? Am I missing something here.
> jerb
>
>
>
Perhaps my wording was misleading. VG's do allow the wing to fly with a
higher angle of attack, but they also will give more lift at a lower angle of
attack than the same wing without the VG's[less drag], so without changing rpm,
top speed should increase.
Most of my opinions about the effects of VG's are theoretical, however, I do
know from personal experience & from the first-hand reports of 50 or 60 users
of VG's made from my plans that their use will USUALLY lower stall by 4-5 mph.
Planes without flaps seem to benefit the most ie. Firestars.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Message 12
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| Subject: | questions&answers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
After thinking that my question of taking a check ride in an experimental aircraft
was going to result in a lot of flack from the list, I was surprised to learn
that it is possible. Thanks to all that replied. And thank you Lar for the
insurance link. I bought a policy today. $310.00 bucks a year is not much for
10 grand of coverage to the airplane. If I cause much more than that, it's not
likely that I will be around to worry about paying for the plane anyway.....
just kidding.... my life insurance would way cover the 150. Man could you imagine
if I showed up for my check ride in Pop's RV-8 tail dragger? Bet the FAA
guy would think twice:-) Anyway I have another question after working on my ground
school class tonight. How many of you have (if any) a mode C transponder
in your Kolb? It would be interesting to me to see how much navigation equipment
everyone has on board besides GPS. I know that the stuff I'm studying for
my knowledge test is dated, but never the less, would come in handy if the GPS
went south.
Looking forward to the fly in tomorrow at SMLA in Lucedale. Going to the hangar
to finish the right elevator......
pp
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: questions&answers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Vamoose has a brand new Narco radio and transponder with mode C, that are
all 6 years old and never been touched. I'll be flying (someday) out of a
towered airport quite a bit, and live right next to the Los Angeles/SoCal
tangle, so for me mode C is close to a necessity.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: questions&answers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> After thinking that my question of taking a check ride in an experimental
aircraft was going to result in a lot of flack from the list, I was
surprised to learn that it is possible. Thanks to all that replied. And
thank you Lar for the insurance link. I bought a policy today. $310.00 bucks
a year is not much for 10 grand of coverage to the airplane. If I cause much
more than that, it's not likely that I will be around to worry about paying
for the plane anyway..... just kidding.... my life insurance would way cover
the 150. Man could you imagine if I showed up for my check ride in Pop's
RV-8 tail dragger? Bet the FAA guy would think twice:-) Anyway I have
another question after working on my ground school class tonight. How many
of you have (if any) a mode C transponder in your Kolb? It would be
interesting to me to see how much navigation equipment everyone has on board
besides GPS. I know that the stuff I'm studying for my knowledge test is
dated, but never the less, woul!
> d come in handy if the GPS went south.
> Looking forward to the fly in tomorrow at SMLA in Lucedale. Going to the
hangar to finish the right elevator......
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: questions&answers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I do. Plus a GPS, needle & ball, whiskey compass & a sectional.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:21 PM 10/17/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
>Kolbers,
<snip>
> Anyway I have another question after working on my ground school class
> tonight. How many of you have (if any) a mode C transponder in your Kolb?
> It would be interesting to me to see how much navigation equipment
> everyone has on board besides GPS. I know that the stuff I'm studying for
> my knowledge test is dated, but never the less, woul!
>d come in handy if the GPS went south.
>Looking forward to the fly in tomorrow at SMLA in Lucedale. Going to the
>hangar to finish the right elevator......
>
>pp
>
>do not archive
>
>
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