Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: questions&answers (John Cooley)
2. 02:59 PM - ultrastar (ron wehba)
3. 03:32 PM - Vortex generators installed (Thom Riddle)
4. 04:44 PM - "Yikes!Trikes" (Paul Petty)
5. 04:49 PM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Jack & Louise Hart)
6. 05:02 PM - New kolber (Robert Mason)
7. 06:00 PM - Re: ultrastar (Terry)
8. 06:25 PM - Re: ultrastar (ron wehba)
9. 06:44 PM - Re: ultrastar (ron wehba)
10. 06:53 PM - Re: "Yikes!Trikes" (John Cooley)
11. 07:21 PM - Re: New kolber (Larry Bourne)
12. 07:47 PM - Traveling (Larry Bourne)
13. 07:48 PM - Re: New kolber (Larry Bourne)
14. 07:56 PM - Re: questions&answers (CRAIG M NELSON)
15. 08:42 PM - Re: New kolber (Richard Pike)
16. 09:45 PM - Re: New kolber ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: questions&answers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
I'm considering the Microair 2000 radio unit with built in mode C
transponder. Anyone have experience with these units?
I'm heading over to the SMLA fly-in in a few minutes. Made a few passes by
there yesterday afternoon and saw what appeared to be a red Slingshot and a
clip wing Firestar. Didn't have time to land and chit chat, it was the wife
s birthday and I was running late for a dinner date. Will check it out today
do not archive
John Cooley
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Anyway I have another question after working on my ground school class
tonight. How many of you have (if any) a mode C transponder in your Kolb? It
would be interesting to me to see how much navigation equipment everyone has
on board besides GPS. I know that the stuff I'm studying for my knowledge
test is dated, but never the less, would come in handy if the GPS went south
Looking forward to the fly in tomorrow at SMLA in Lucedale. Going to the
hangar to finish the right elevator......
pp
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
I was told to make a choice!!!,the kolb or my minimax i built the max and it ain't
goin' nowhere ,so the kolb has got to go,it is in very good shape,flys great,nice
plane.4k or offer, email for pics of info. it is ready to go ,,don't even
need gas,,it is READY.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
VG aficionados,
The best treatise on the subject I've found is http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_cruise_wide.pdf
It states unequivocally that VGs lower stall speeds AND increase drag which necessarily
reduces cruise speed. This articles summarizes the rigorous tests that
were performed to demonstrate this empirically. At 75% cruise power in this
test, the cruise speed was reduced by about 2.1%. On most Kolbs this would translate
to between 1-2 mph.
I just made a set this afternoon for the 84-FS-377 and am waiting for better weather
to try them out. I used Jack Harts design but did not cut the sloping angle,
i.e., left them full 3/8" high front to back. All other designs I have seen
leave the vertical section full height throughout so I did the same.
For me, the reduction in stall speed and better roll control is worth the slight
reduction in cruise.
Thom Riddle
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolber's
Just got home from the SMLA fly in and spending the day there with John Cooley.
Great time! Lot's of airplanes! Three Kolb's 2 slingshot's and John's Firestar
and a Kolb copycat won't mention the name but a real nice aircraft. John and
I were talking about 30 feet from the flight line when all of a sudden "CRASH".
Just as I turned to look a Trike had impacted the ground about 30 feet from
John and I. It was nasty. Apparently the pilot stalled the trike and "nose'd"
into the surface. Folk's let me tell you.. I have thought about flying in a trike
but after seeing that aircraft crash into so many pieces NO WAY!! The aircraft
just folded into a heap of lawn chair furniture and bed sheets, if you will,and
the pilot and passenger were trapped in the mess with the engine still
running. Many rescue folk's rushed over to assist and John and I just stayed
out of the way. The pilot received cut's to one leg that took 30 stitches to sew
up and the passenger was unharmed as we were told. A section of the aluminum
tubing flew some 40 feet from the point of impact. The point of my telling this
event to all is because John and I talked about the structural integrity of
a "cage" in the event of a mishap. The above mentioned copycat aircraft has
an aluminum construction from the back of the door's forward. The strong chrome
molly steel frame of the Kolb makes me feel better and better about my choice
of light aircraft. John has a real nice strip and a beautiful place. His landing
gear mod on the Mark 3 is real neat. If anyone would like photos from the
event just let me know.
Thanks to Ronnie Smith and all the gang for a great fly in..
pp
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
Kolbers,
One must be careful as to what effect your VG's are going to have and to understand
what is going on. If you have them set so that they are over 45 degrees
to the undisturbed air flow, you have a turbulator. This trips the boundary layer
and causes the air to separate from the surface and to roll back over the
wing. The roll axis is parallel to the wing surface and perpendicular to the
undisturbed air flow. In the case of turbulators, you actually decrease lift
and so increase stall speed and parasitic drag. This is why they are used inboard
on wing to cause the inner most section of the wing to stall before the
outer portion.
The trick of VG's is to keep the angle to the undisturbed air flow as small as
possible and to form little swirls whose axis is perpendicular to the wing. This
minimizes parasitic drag. They delay boundary layer thickness formation, and
as result, they delay overall laminar airflow separation from the wing until
the air has passed further back over the wing. For a given speed and angle
of attack the wing will produce more lift and the center of lift will move toward
the rear. So if one is going to continue to cruise at the same indicated
air speed, the angle of attack will be reduced until the wing is developing the
same total lift as it was before the VG's were installed.
The FireFly wing is a high camber wing, and high camber wing induced drag changes
rapidly with angle of attack. So anything one can do to reduce the cruise
angle of attack and for a given power input, it will give a better cruise speed.
If you are not copying a proven set up from another plane, I believe the best way
to determine what is best for your plane is to make up a bunch of them and
tape them on the wing with electricians tape. Start out with a few and keep adding
on successive flights to determine what is best. The easiest test is to
use a hard surfaced runway, and to nurse the plane off into ground effect. As
you add VG's the indicated airspeed will decrease at which the plane will lift
off. At some point the adding of VG's will have no effect and this determines
how many to put on. Then the plane is ready to go to altitude for slow flight
and stall tests. You will be amazed at how slow it will fly, and how stable
it has become.
In my case the FireFly has 18 VG's on each wing. No way would I take them off.
I can fly any time of the day through just about anything. Whoops! I have
been gone a few days and I am starting to ramble. If you are interested, you
can see them starting at:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly17.html
These VG's have been mounted for over three years with some of them inside the
propeller arc, and none have come loose.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
Just purchase some wings and tail feathers, have ordered Kit 2, would like to put
some nav lights on..any comments on which product and how to get it through
the wings..
Good to be aboard!
Robert
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
ron wehba wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> I was told to make a choice!!!,the kolb or my minimax i built the max and it
ain't goin' nowhere ,so the kolb has got to go,it is in very good shape,flys great,nice
plane.4k or offer, email for pics of info. it is ready to go ,,don't
even need gas,,it is READY.
>
Ron,
Can you provide some details?!!!! Which model, what engine, hours, etc.?
Thanks Terry
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
1984-85 model, 430 cuyuna II-02 my hours are 9+, as the aircraft ??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry" <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ultrastar
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
>
> ron wehba wrote:
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> >
> > I was told to make a choice!!!,the kolb or my minimax i built the max
and it ain't goin' nowhere ,so the kolb has got to go,it is in very good
shape,flys great,nice plane.4k or offer, email for pics of info. it is ready
to go ,,don't even need gas,,it is READY.
> >
>
> Ron,
>
> Can you provide some details?!!!! Which model, what engine, hours, etc.?
>
> Thanks Terry
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
opp's the plane is ready to go,the a/c hours I do not know?
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ultrastar
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> 1984-85 model, 430 cuyuna II-02 my hours are 9+, as the aircraft ??
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry" <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ultrastar
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
> >
> > ron wehba wrote:
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> > >
> > > I was told to make a choice!!!,the kolb or my minimax i built the max
> and it ain't goin' nowhere ,so the kolb has got to go,it is in very good
> shape,flys great,nice plane.4k or offer, email for pics of info. it is
ready
> to go ,,don't even need gas,,it is READY.
> > >
> >
> > Ron,
> >
> > Can you provide some details?!!!! Which model, what engine, hours,
etc.?
> >
> > Thanks Terry
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: "Yikes!Trikes" |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
Just got back a little while ago from the fly-in at SMLA. Myself and Paul
Petty got to visit for awhile and other than the accident he described, I
had a great time. Got treated to some good aerobatic shows by Johnny Smith
in a Zlin and another fellow in a Pitts with a 360 hp radial engine. Have a
couple of pics of Ted Cowan and Jim Holbrook (sorry if that's spelled wrong)
who both have Slingshots that I will post to the photoshare.
do not archive
Later,
John Cooley
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolber's
Just got home from the SMLA fly in and spending the day there with John
Cooley. Great time! Lot's of airplanes! Three Kolb's 2 slingshot's and John
s Firestar and a Kolb copycat won't mention the name but a real nice
aircraft. John and I were talking about 30 feet from the flight line when
all of a sudden "CRASH". Just as I turned to look a Trike had impacted the
ground about 30 feet from John and I. It was nasty. Apparently the pilot
stalled the trike and "nose'd" into the surface. Folk's let me tell you.. I
have thought about flying in a trike but after seeing that aircraft crash
into so many pieces NO WAY!! The aircraft just folded into a heap of lawn
chair furniture and bed sheets, if you will,and the pilot and passenger were
trapped in the mess with the engine still running. Many rescue folk's rushed
over to assist and John and I just stayed out of the way. The pilot received
cut's to one leg that took 30 stitches to sew up and the passenger was
unharmed as we were told!
.. A section of the aluminum tubing flew some 40 feet from the point of
impact. The point of my telling this event to all is because John and I
talked about the structural integrity of a "cage" in the event of a mishap.
The above mentioned copycat aircraft has an aluminum construction from the
back of the door's forward. The strong chrome molly steel frame of the Kolb
makes me feel better and better about my choice of light aircraft. John has
a real nice strip and a beautiful place. His landing gear mod on the Mark 3
is real neat. If anyone would like photos from the event just let me know.
Thanks to Ronnie Smith and all the gang for a great fly in..
pp
do not archive
.
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Go to my website, highlighted below, go to "Building Vamoose," and "Wingtip
Strobes." The 1st picture on the page shows how I went about it, with
grommets and computer cable. Others have left the wires loose inside the
wing, or inside the spar tube. I feel better with the wires solidly
secured, so they can't chafe, or get into other mischief. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mason" <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: New kolber
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Just purchase some wings and tail feathers, have ordered Kit 2, would like
to put some nav lights on..any comments on which product and how to get it
through the wings..
> Good to be aboard!
>
> Robert
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Do Not Archive.
This is Kolb related only in that this would be a good destination for people in
the Los Angeles/Las Vegas/Phoenix areas. Lots of back roads that could easily
be landed on, and lots of privacy. Might make a good group destination someday..............but
not in the summertime. Take a look at:
http://www.webpictures.homestead.com/travelling.html
and go to "Weekends," then to "Wiley's Well Geodes." Enjoy.
Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I forgot.............many have wire tied the wiring to the aluminum rib
tubing, as well. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New kolber
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Go to my website, highlighted below, go to "Building Vamoose," and
"Wingtip
> Strobes." The 1st picture on the page shows how I went about it, with
> grommets and computer cable. Others have left the wires loose inside the
> wing, or inside the spar tube. I feel better with the wires solidly
> secured, so they can't chafe, or get into other mischief.
Lar.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Mason" <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: New kolber
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > Just purchase some wings and tail feathers, have ordered Kit 2, would
like
> to put some nav lights on..any comments on which product and how to get it
> through the wings..
> > Good to be aboard!
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: questions&answers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
Paul:
in answer to your transponder and nav. equipment question. I have fabricated a
new pod of carbon fiber with a leather glare shield that houses an in panel Garmin
295 GPS, a Becker VHF transceiver (ar4201),A Becker transponder (atc 4401-1-xxx)
with mode C connected to a king blind encoder (AK-350) and a panel mounted
Sigtronics intercom (spa-4s)
do not archive
Uncle Craig
Mark III ex
912 uls
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Pike
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: questions&answers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I do. Plus a GPS, needle & ball, whiskey compass & a sectional.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 07:21 PM 10/17/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
>Kolbers,
<snip>
> Anyway I have another question after working on my ground school class
> tonight. How many of you have (if any) a mode C transponder in your Kolb?
> It would be interesting to me to see how much navigation equipment
> everyone has on board besides GPS. I know that the stuff I'm studying for
> my knowledge test is dated, but never the less, woul!
>d come in handy if the GPS went south.
>Looking forward to the fly in tomorrow at SMLA in Lucedale. Going to the
>hangar to finish the right elevator......
>
>pp
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I made my own. Picture and explanation at
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg5.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 05:02 PM 10/18/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Just purchase some wings and tail feathers, have ordered Kit 2, would like
>to put some nav lights on..any comments on which product and how to get it
>through the wings..
>Good to be aboard!
>
>Robert
>
>
Message 16
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Robert,
Welcome aboard!
I mounted Kuntzleman wingtip strobes on my Mk-3, the wires are run through
the spar tube with an inspection ring at the underside of the wing tip where
the wires are connected to the strobes. At the root end the wires are routed
back to the trailing edge and come through the fabric just in front of the
universal joint. I used small P-clamps to secure the wire where nesessary.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: New kolber
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Mason <masonclan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Just purchase some wings and tail feathers, have ordered Kit 2, would like
to put some nav lights on..any comments on which product and how to get it
through the wings..
> Good to be aboard!
>
> Robert
>
>
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