Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:54 AM - barnstormers (ron wehba)
2. 09:12 AM - Re: barnstormers (herbgh@juno.com)
3. 09:54 AM - bent 4130 steel gear legs (Ben Ransom)
4. 10:07 AM - Re: questions&answers (John Cooley)
5. 10:10 AM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Ben Ransom)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Vortex generators installed (possums)
7. 10:45 AM - Re: barnstormers (ron wehba)
8. 11:02 AM - Re: barnstormers (Rayfield, Bill)
9. 11:13 AM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Jack & Louise Hart)
10. 11:25 AM - Wings (James, Ken)
11. 12:25 PM - FW: Wings (Jim Clayton)
12. 12:58 PM - Re: "Yikes!Trikes" (herbgh@juno.com)
13. 01:14 PM - Re: Wings (Larry Bourne)
14. 01:23 PM - Re: Wings and Database (dama)
15. 01:51 PM - [ Craig Nelson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
16. 02:05 PM - [ Paul Petty ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
17. 02:07 PM - [ Herb ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
18. 02:52 PM - Re: [ Herb ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Larry Bourne)
19. 02:53 PM - cowling (Paul Petty)
20. 04:13 PM - trike (Paul Petty)
21. 04:33 PM - Vortex Generators update - success! (Richard Pike)
22. 04:37 PM - Re: trike (herbgh@juno.com)
23. 04:46 PM - Re: bent 4130 steel gear legs (Bob Bean)
24. 04:57 PM - Re: barnstormers (Dave & Eve Pelletier)
25. 05:05 PM - cowling for mkIIEX (CRAIG M NELSON)
26. 05:30 PM - Re: Engine Cowling (Richard Swiderski)
27. 05:46 PM - OFF Topic Retriver Payment systems BAD (BMWBikeCrz@aol.com)
28. 06:31 PM - Re: cowling (CRAIG M NELSON)
29. 07:53 PM - Re: trike (Don Gherardini)
30. 08:01 PM - Vortex Generators update - success! (Richard Pike)
31. 08:01 PM - Re: Wings (Don Gherardini)
32. 08:04 PM - Re: Wings (woody)
33. 08:13 PM - Re: cowling for mkIIEX (Don Gherardini)
34. 09:07 PM - Re: Vortex Generators update - success! (Don Gherardini)
35. 10:21 PM - Re: Engine Cowling (CRAIG M NELSON)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
anyone one know what tothe barnstormers site?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: barnstormers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
Ronnie
Still there!! Herb
http://www.barnstormers.com/
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:50:31 -0500 "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net> writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> anyone one know what tothe barnstormers site?
>
>
>
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>
=
>
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>
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>
Message 3
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| Subject: | bent 4130 steel gear legs |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
Just over a month back in the air and I find that I have bent my 4130
steel tube gear legs. Mine are 1.125" diameter x .095 wall thickness,
heat treated to Rockwell 42. I landed yesterday on a long sandbar on
the Sacramento River about 5 miles south of Colusa. The sandbar had
some gradual steps, but enf to give me a couple of pretty good bounces
after a faster than ideal touchdown. I didn't notice the bent legs
until getting back home and seeing the plane on flat pavement, but it
is obviously listing to starboard.
My first inclination is to go back to the factory 7075 aluminum legs as
I had abused them similarly to yesterday's rough stuff without bending
them. As for the steel leg options, I could get the same legs and find
a heat treater that could get them up to 46-48 Rockwell, but today I'm
feeling greatful that yesterday's incident was bent legs instead of
broken legs. Or, I could go to a bigger wall thickness, but I'm
already paying a minor weight penalty over aluminum for the 1.125x.095.
I'd really like to keep the gear legs pushed all the way to the top of
the cage sleeves, so if I go to 7075, does anyone know which particular
7075 alloy this is, and possibly a good source? I can take care of the
tapering lathe work no problem.
-Ben
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: questions&answers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
I want to apoligize to the list if the post below by me caused any confusion
I was thinking that the Microair T 2000 was a radio and transponder in one
unit. After further review and seeing some first hand this weekend, the
radio and transponder are two seperate instruments.
"do not archive"
John Cooley
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Hi Gang,
I'm considering the Microair 2000 radio unit with built in mode C
transponder. Anyone have experience with these units?
.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
Thanks Jack for the input here and reminder to your nice web site
description of how you made your VGs. I need to get to this project
soon, as I feel my stall and landing speed is up a little with my
slightly shorter wings (3.5" each), and possibly also due to my
different shape wingtips.
Thinking further about our VG thread, I've thought there is a possible
logic that could explain faster top speed. (I stated earlier that VGs
wouldn't do anything to angle of attack at cruise, resulting in no
impact or very minor increase in drag.) But there is the possible
analogy of dimples on a golf ball creating a turbulent boundary layer
that is less drag than a smooth ball. I wonder if some VG shape and
placement could have a similar effect on our Kolbs.
-Ben
--- Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> One must be careful as to what effect your VG's are going to have and
> to understand what is going on. If you have them set so that they
> are over 45 degrees to the undisturbed air flow, you have a
> turbulator. This trips the boundary layer and causes the air to
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: possums <possums@mindspring.com>
At 10:10 AM 10/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
> But there is the possible
>analogy of dimples on a golf ball creating a turbulent boundary layer
>that is less drag than a smooth ball. I wonder if some VG shape and
>placement could have a similar effect on our Kolbs.
>-Ben
Anybody tried this stuff - it's expensive.
http://www.dimpletape.com/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: barnstormers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
umm! must have messed up my desktop shortcut
----- Original Message -----
From: <herbgh@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: barnstormers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
>
> Ronnie
>
> Still there!! Herb
> http://www.barnstormers.com/
>
>
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:50:31 -0500 "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net> writes:
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
> >
> > anyone one know what tothe barnstormers site?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rayfield, Bill" <brayfield@kcc.com>
www.barnstormers.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ron wehba [mailto:rwehba@wtxs.net]
Subject: Kolb-List: barnstormers
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
anyone one know what tothe barnstormers site?
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain
privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from
disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please
inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any
printed copy. Thank you.
==============================================================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 10:10 AM 10/20/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
>
>
>(I stated earlier that VGs
>wouldn't do anything to angle of attack at cruise, resulting in no
>impact or very minor increase in drag.)
Ben,
From before:
"For a given speed and angle of attack the wing will produce more lift and the
center of lift will move toward the rear. So if one is going to continue to cruise
at the same indicated air speed, the angle of attack will be reduced until
the wing is developing the same total lift as it was before the VG's were installed.
The FireFly wing is a high camber wing, and high camber wing induced drag changes
rapidly with angle of attack. So anything one can do to reduce the cruise
angle of attack and for a given power input, it will give a better cruise speed."
If one is going to maintain level flight at the same cruise speed with the wing
generating more lift, the wing angle of attack must be reduced. One of the characteristics
of a high camber wing profile is that the induced drag falls rapidly
with an angle of attack decrease. The decrease in induced drag out paces
the increase in parasitic drag and the plane will fly faster, at the same throttle
setting.
I puzzled about this for some time because as I made trips to my local EAA Chapter
meetings, I kept increasing cruise speed in increments of 100 rpm. After
several trips during which I had changed nothing related to propeller or parasitic
drag, I noticed I was using about the same amount of fuel to make the trip.
Thinking in parasitic drag terms this is impossible, so I read up on coefficient
of drag for various wing profiles.
High camber wings are very docile and have many good characteristics, but they
have much higher induced drag coefficients and they increase rapidly with angle
of attack.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
O.K. lets go over wing building again. MKIII Xtra
Saw horse? Table? Hanging?
Who's got pics of there wings jigged up and what problems did you run into,
H beam placement , thrust tube ect..
Thanks for the help
Ken
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
I second that request.
"Do not archive"
Jim Clayton
California
Mark-3X, Building...at 10%
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken"
<KDJames@berkscareer.com>
O.K. lets go over wing building again. MKIII Xtra
Saw horse? Table? Hanging?
Who's got pics of there wings jigged up and what
problems did you run into,
H beam placement , thrust tube ect..
Thanks for the help
Ken
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: "Yikes!Trikes" |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
Paul
I was there also, but did not see the impact. I took a picture of the
airframe and believe that if the engine mount had come loose a bit more
than it did; one or both of the folks involved would have been much more
seriously hurt.
Otherwise ; a great way to spend most of a Sat. for this Ky boy! I
was on my way to New Orleans. Kolbs,Titans,Teenie 2,Trikes, Lots more!!
By the way ; that un-mentionable Fergy IIb was a nice plane. Like you
I did notice that the structure seemed less enclosing of the passenger
and pilot. Sort of a central box cage surrounded by aluminum tubing.
Still and all a very nice bird!! Herb in Ky
ps I sent the trike foto to the archives.
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:48:31 -0500 "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolber's
> Just got home from the SMLA fly in and spending the day there with
> John Cooley. Great time! Lot's of airplanes! Three Kolb's 2
> slingshot's and John's Firestar and a Kolb copycat won't mention the
> name but a real nice aircraft. John and I were talking about 30 feet
> from the flight line when all of a sudden "CRASH". Just as I turned
> to look a Trike had impacted the ground about 30 feet from John and
> I. It was nasty. Apparently the pilot stalled the trike and "nose'd"
> into the surface. Folk's let me tell you.. I have thought about
> flying in a trike but after seeing that aircraft crash into so many
> pieces NO WAY!! The aircraft just folded into a heap of lawn chair
> furniture and bed sheets, if you will,and the pilot and passenger
> were trapped in the mess with the engine still running. Many rescue
> folk's rushed over to assist and John and I just stayed out of the
> way. The pilot received cut's to one leg that took 30 stitches to
> sew up and the passenger was unharmed as we were told!
> . A section of the aluminum tubing flew some 40 feet from the point
> of impact. The point of my telling this event to all is because John
> and I talked about the structural integrity of a "cage" in the event
> of a mishap. The above mentioned copycat aircraft has an aluminum
> construction from the back of the door's forward. The strong chrome
> molly steel frame of the Kolb makes me feel better and better about
> my choice of light aircraft. John has a real nice strip and a
> beautiful place. His landing gear mod on the Mark 3 is real neat. If
> anyone would like photos from the event just let me know.
> Thanks to Ronnie Smith and all the gang for a great fly in..
>
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Trying to say anything meaningful here would be pretty difficult. Several
of the builders, including myself, have built websites about building their
planes. Many are very well done; all have different ways of presenting
their views & information, and different ways of doing things - especially
building those wings. It would be to your great benefit to look over some
of them. You will almost certainly come up with your own version, and
possibly pass it on, too. If I remember right, I don't think Kip Laurie is
hosting his website index anymore. Can anyone tell Jim where to look ??
Ahhh.............TNK's website has some listed, I think ??? Lost
Track Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Clayton" <jspc78@yahoo.com>
Subject: FW: Kolb-List: Wings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
>
> I second that request.
>
> "Do not archive"
>
> Jim Clayton
> California
> Mark-3X, Building...at 10%
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken"
> <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
>
>
> O.K. lets go over wing building again. MKIII Xtra
>
> Saw horse? Table? Hanging?
>
> Who's got pics of there wings jigged up and what
> problems did you run into,
> H beam placement , thrust tube ect..
>
> Thanks for the help
>
> Ken
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wings and Database |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" <dama@mindspring.com>
It has been a while since I mentioned it on the list but the builder and
pilot list is alive and well at...
http://www.springeraviation.net/
Kip
FS II
Atlanta
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wings
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> Trying to say anything meaningful here would be pretty difficult. Several
> of the builders, including myself, have built websites about building
their
> planes. Many are very well done; all have different ways of presenting
> their views & information, and different ways of doing things - especially
> building those wings. It would be to your great benefit to look over some
> of them. You will almost certainly come up with your own version, and
> possibly pass it on, too. If I remember right, I don't think Kip Laurie
is
> hosting his website index anymore. Can anyone tell Jim where to look ??
> Ahhh.............TNK's website has some listed, I think ??? Lost
> Track Lar.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Clayton" <jspc78@yahoo.com>
> To: "Kolb List posting" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: FW: Kolb-List: Wings
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I second that request.
> >
> > "Do not archive"
> >
> > Jim Clayton
> > California
> > Mark-3X, Building...at 10%
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken"
> > <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
> >
> >
> > O.K. lets go over wing building again. MKIII Xtra
> >
> > Saw horse? Table? Hanging?
> >
> > Who's got pics of there wings jigged up and what
> > problems did you run into,
> > H beam placement , thrust tube ect..
> >
> > Thanks for the help
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | [ Craig Nelson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Craig Nelson <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Subject: Engine Cowling
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/NeilsenRM@comcast.net.10.20.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | [ Paul Petty ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Paul Petty <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Hauck @ Harris field
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ppetty@c-gate.net.10.20.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | [ Herb ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Herb <herbgh@juno.com>
Subject: SMLA trike crash
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/herbgh@juno.com.10.20.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: [ Herb ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Man, I'm glad I wasn't sitting in THAT ! ! ! Do not Archive
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: [ Herb ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
<pictures@matronics.com>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Herb <herbgh@juno.com>
>
>
> Subject: SMLA trike crash
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/herbgh@juno.com.10.20.2003/index.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include
the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Craig,
Did you make that cowling or buy one and modify it?
Awesome what ever you did!
pp
do not archive
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
Regarding the crash photo. The engine did not "fold" over into the passenger's
seat until they removed the wing. But the fact that it will fold over is scary
enough for me not to fly in one of those. I have no doubt that had he impacted
the ground at a slightly steeper angle it would have done just that. After the
crash the engine was still running. Not sure if the prop was spinning because
many of the trikes had slip clutches. I did hear on person call out to one
of the rescue folks to "Watch the prop!!!" A very bad deal but both pilot and
passenger are very lucky to have only minor injury's...
do not archive
pp
Message 21
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| Subject: | Vortex Generators update - success! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Last week I put vortex generators on my MKIII and while it made things
better, it didn't make it stall noticeably slower. Discovered today it was
because I didn't have enough of them. I now have one on every rib, 28 per
side with each one having two vanes ala Howard Shackleford's general layout.
Stall is at 21 indicated, 30 actual, that is 5 mph less than last week. No
negative change in stall behavior, it actually seems more docile than
before. That may be because I did the VG's in front of the ailerons a
little different. The outboard 14 VG's are staggered, one is back 9.5
inches from leading edge centerline, the next is 11 inches, the next 9.5
inches, etc. The inboard 14 are all at 11 inches back. Why did I do it that
way? I saw a web page advertising STC'd VG's for a Super Cub, and the VG's
in front of the aileron were closer to the leading edge than the ones on
the rest of the wing, said it gave better aileron control through the
stall. They didn't say why it worked, just that it did. So I compromised,
and for whatever reason, it works real well. Would it be better if they
were all in line? Maybe. Do I care? No, it meets my goals and I am content,
no need to test further. Maybe someone on the list can help me speculate
about the staggered VG's?
Something else that has changed is that since I now have them further
inboard than last week, the prop no longer yowls like it did before just
prior to stall, so the center section is not seriously stalled like it was
last week, probably that accounts for the lower stall speed, the entire
wing is hanging in there longer. There is now a general airframe buffet
that is hard to miss just before the stall, and I really like that, it did
not buffet like that before.
Did not have time enough tonight to do any real airwork and explore the
effects in cruise, etc, but I have a definite impression that it is
maintaining altitude easier at lower throttle settings. Something I tried
on my one take off (suggested by Jack Hart, I think) was to see how slowly
I could fly it off in ground effect and it hopped off with good control
authority at 30 indicated, which is probably about 38 actual. That is
slower than it normally comes off.
Tomorrow I will peel off the tape that is holding the VG's temporarily in
place, paint them and rivet them in place, plus take off the gap seal and
add a couple to it also. As long as I have the center section working to
provide serious lift, might as well work it hard. Hope to have the web page
updated with pictures before the weekend.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 22
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com
Hi PP
Sorry to have assumed that the crash pic reflected the final state of
the airframe!! :-( I should know better than that! I did not go out to
the field until after the fuselage was carried to the side and the
young fellow was on the way to the hospital. Herb
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:17:20 -0500 "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
writes:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Regarding the crash photo. The engine did not "fold" over into the
> passenger's seat until they removed the wing. But the fact that it
> will fold over is scary enough for me not to fly in one of those. I
> have no doubt that had he impacted the ground at a slightly steeper
> angle it would have done just that. After the crash the engine was
> still running. Not sure if the prop was spinning because many of the
> trikes had slip clutches. I did hear on person call out to one of
> the rescue folks to "Watch the prop!!!" A very bad deal but both
> pilot and passenger are very lucky to have only minor injury's...
>
> do not archive
>
> pp
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: bent 4130 steel gear legs |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Ben, can they be straightened without losing the cross-sectional conformity?
Just one bend may bring the hardness up to the right point. -BB do not
archive
Ben Ransom wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Ben Ransom <bwr000@yahoo.com>
>
>Just over a month back in the air and I find that I have bent my 4130
>steel tube gear legs. Mine are 1.125" diameter x .095 wall thickness,
>heat treated to Rockwell 42. I landed yesterday on a long sandbar on
>the Sacramento River about 5 miles south of Colusa. The sandbar had
>some gradual steps, but enf to give me a couple of pretty good bounces
>after a faster than ideal touchdown. I didn't notice the bent legs
>until getting back home and seeing the plane on flat pavement, but it
>is obviously listing to starboard.
>
>My first inclination is to go back to the factory 7075 aluminum legs as
>I had abused them similarly to yesterday's rough stuff without bending
>them. As for the steel leg options, I could get the same legs and find
>a heat treater that could get them up to 46-48 Rockwell, but today I'm
>feeling greatful that yesterday's incident was bent legs instead of
>broken legs. Or, I could go to a bigger wall thickness, but I'm
>already paying a minor weight penalty over aluminum for the 1.125x.095.
>
>
>I'd really like to keep the gear legs pushed all the way to the top of
>the cage sleeves, so if I go to 7075, does anyone know which particular
>7075 alloy this is, and possibly a good source? I can take care of the
>tapering lathe work no problem.
>-Ben
>
>=====
>http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
>__________________________________
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: barnstormers |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier@cableone.net>
www.barnstormers.com
AZDave
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: barnstormers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
>
> anyone one know what tothe barnstormers site?
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | cowling for mkIIEX |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
guys I finally got the photos to e-mail------ In the photo share I posted some
pics of the cowling I made.(photo 1)
the first part out of the mold I made, a poleyester, s glass and core mat strips
test piece to see where to mount and where to make the inspection door (photo
2) actual part. aft piece and right 1/2 not bonded in place to reval the engine,
and tower made to relocate the radiator, oil cooler, oil tank, and mount
the front of the cowling and the hinges for the door. (photo 3) left view before
the door is in place. (photo 4) back view famished part. (photo 5) Finished
part B4final sanding and paint. the finished part is made of white gel coat
for easer paint then 2 layers of carbon fiber one layer of core mat then one s
glass layer. the resin is epoxy.
Uncle Craig
MKIIIex912uls
Arizona
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cowling |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Craig,
You did what I only dreamed of! What a beautiful job. I've never done
any glass work beyond patching an auto trunk deck. Is there a resource you
could recommend that addresses the skills & materials needed to build a
similar one?
richard swiderski
Message 27
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| Subject: | olb-List:OFF Topic Retriver Payment systems BAD |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
As I want to engage in an aircraft related business , I would need and want
to accept Credit Cards ...
So I fell for A SCAM from Total WEASELS Retriever Payment Systems ...
The next Day after I signed a contract I wished to cancel ... They will NOT
let me !
They Initiated EFT from my Bank account and cashed my check ... ALL after I
notified them in writing !!!
Avoid these people AT ALL COSTS !!!
Dave
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
Paul'
Yes I made it from scratch. I started with making the gap sill permanent. welding
stays for the ribs to rivet to. then I made an aluminum temporary covering
, front and back bulk heads were made of wood which were made to split in the
center. I then bagged the engine with plastic and applied urethane foam strips
between the bulk heads. filled in the gaps between the strips with 2 part urethane
foam then carved and sanded to shape. Then the plug(temp. cowling made now
of wood aluminum and foam) was split ,removed from the plane and engine, bonded
together sanded and finished to look like the finished part. I then made
molds off of this plug from which I made the finished parts.
Thanks.
Uncle Craig
MKIIIex 912uls
Arizona
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Petty
Subject: Kolb-List: cowling
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Craig,
Did you make that cowling or buy one and modify it?
Awesome what ever you did!
pp
do not archive
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Paul..very good photos of John at harris feild...ya got to tell me what kind
of digital camera you have. I knocked mine off the bench while building, and
busted it....need a new one.
Do not archive
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
800-626-7326
Message 30
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| Subject: | Vortex Generators update - success! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I sent this once already hours ago, but apparently it didn't make it
through the ether, so let me try it again... the original will probably
show up as soon as I hit send...
Last week I put vortex generators on my MKIII and while it made things
better, it didn't make it stall noticeably slower. Discovered today it was
because I didn't have enough of them. I now have one on every rib, 28 per
side with each one having two vanes ala Howard Shackleford's general layout.
Stall is at 21 indicated, 30 actual, that is 5 mph less than last week. No
negative change in stall behavior, it actually seems more docile than
before. That may be because I did the VG's in front of the ailerons a
little different. The outboard 14 VG's are staggered, one is back 9.5
inches from leading edge centerline, the next is 11 inches, the next 9.5
inches, etc. The inboard 14 are all at 11 inches back. Why did I do it that
way? I saw a web page advertising STC'd VG's for a Super Cub, and the VG's
in front of the aileron were closer to the leading edge than the ones on
the rest of the wing, said it gave better aileron control through the
stall. They didn't say why it worked, just that it did. So I compromised,
and for whatever reason, it works real well. Would it be better if they
were all in line? Maybe. Do I care? No, it meets my goals and I am content,
no need to test further. Maybe someone on the list can help me speculate
about the staggered VG's?
Something else that has changed is that since I now have them further
inboard than last week, the prop no longer yowls like it did before just
prior to stall, so the center section is not seriously stalled like it was
last week, probably that accounts for the lower stall speed, the entire
wing is hanging in there longer. There is now a general airframe buffet
that is hard to miss just before the stall, and I really like that, it did
not buffet like that before.
Did not have time enough tonight to do any real airwork and explore the
effects in cruise, etc, but I have a definite impression that it is
maintaining altitude easier at lower throttle settings. Something I tried
on my one take off (suggested by Jack Hart, I think) was to see how slowly
I could fly it off in ground effect and it hopped off with good control
authority at 30 indicated, which is probably about 38 actual. That is
slower than it normally comes off.
Tomorrow I will peel off the tape that is holding the VG's temporarily in
place, paint them and rivet them in place, plus take off the gap seal and
add a couple to it also. As long as I have the center section working to
provide serious lift, might as well work it hard. Hope to have the web page
updated with pictures before the weekend.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 31
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Ken....I dont have a firestar..but I do have pics of my FireFly wings during
building...and a several more..You might get a few ideas from my web-site
Hope it helps a little
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Don Gherardini-
FireFly 098
Message 32
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
I prefer saw horses at elbow height.
> O.K. lets go over wing building again. MKIII Xtra
>
> Saw horse? Table? Hanging?
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: cowling for mkIIEX |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Craig....I can see right now I gotta learn to do fibreglass work!.....that
is BEUUUTIFUL!!!
do not archive.
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Don Gherardini-
FireFly 098
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators update - success! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Richard , The staggered pattern makes perfect sense to me....
As the best place for the VG to be attached is at the point on the wing just
before seperation begins...(which we cant see)
now, as the angle of attack increases, then the point at where the
seperation begins also changes right?....
so the best VG's would be ones that move along the wing and stay right ahead
of the point of seperation...since we cant do that, then a staggered
arrangement insures there is a VG in the optimium place about all angles of
attack.
I think.....
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Don Gherardini-
FireFly 098
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cowling |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0@msn.com>
Richard:
I don't know of a resource book, there is a company that I get my materials from
here in Phoenix that I think might have some information. they just changed
their name. next time I go I'll get you their address. composite work is fun and
very rewarding. it's not that hard if I can do it any one can.
Uncle Craig
MKIIIex192uls
Arizona
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Swiderski
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine Cowling
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Craig,
You did what I only dreamed of! What a beautiful job. I've never done
any glass work beyond patching an auto trunk deck. Is there a resource you
could recommend that addresses the skills & materials needed to build a
similar one?
richard swiderski
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