Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Alaska! (Dave Rains)
2. 04:27 AM - Re: Vortex Generators update - success! (GeoR38@aol.com)
3. 04:55 AM - Re: (Alaska) (Bob Bean)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Vortex Generators update - success! (Richard Pike)
5. 06:00 AM - Re: Alaska! (John Hauck)
6. 06:34 AM - Verner Engine (John Williamson)
7. 06:52 AM - Kolb Humor (Paul Petty)
8. 07:39 AM - Alaska (Paul Petty)
9. 07:44 AM - Re: Alaska! (John Hauck)
10. 09:06 AM - Re: Alaska (John Hauck)
11. 09:07 AM - Re:bent 4130 steel gear leg (William George)
12. 10:18 AM - Re: Kolb Humor (Christopher J Armstrong)
13. 11:58 AM - destinations (Paul Petty)
14. 12:35 PM - Re: Alaska (Paul Petty)
15. 03:56 PM - Yahoo hanger (Paul Petty)
16. 04:39 PM - Re: destinations (CaptainRon)
17. 05:15 PM - M3X Wing mods? (Jim Clayton)
18. 05:15 PM - Re: destinations (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
19. 05:25 PM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Jack & Louise Hart)
20. 07:33 PM - Re: M3X Wing mods? (Bob Bean)
21. 07:35 PM - Re: Vortex generators installed (Christopher J Armstrong)
22. 07:36 PM - Re: Alaska! (woody)
23. 08:17 PM - Re: Yahoo hanger (John Williamson)
24. 08:41 PM - Re: M3X Wing mods? (CaptainRon)
25. 08:45 PM - Re: Yahoo hanger (Matt Dralle)
26. 09:39 PM - Re: Alaska! (kuffel)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
X_PRIORITY_HIGH
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains <rr@htg.net>
Count me in for Alaska. Am taking the month of July off for the trip.
Can't pass up an opportunity for Kuffel Kakes. John, need to know what
items are required for flying through Canada.
Dave Rains
C-175B
N8086T
do not archive
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators update - success! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 10/20/03 11:08:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
donghe@one-eleven.net writes:
> Richard , The staggered pattern makes perfect sense to me....
>
> As the best place for the VG to be attached is at the point on the wing just
> before seperation begins...(which we cant see)
>
> now, as the angle of attack increases, then the point at where the
> seperation begins also changes right?....
>
> so the best VG's would be ones that move along the wing and stay right ahead
> of the point of seperation...since we cant do that, then a staggered
> arrangement insures there is a VG in the optimium place about all angles of
> attack.
>
>
> I think.....
>
>
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
> Don Gherardini-
> FireFly 098
>
.....Or....could the stagger be related to a wing that has..........washout?
George Randolph
Firestar Driver from The Villages (for 2 weeks)
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
The old Franklin 6 was a little on the crude side too, the crank looked
like it
had been hewn with an ax......but it was a good engine. -BB do not archive
CaptainRon wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
>
>John I went over to your site and watched the movies.
>Did you try both engines on your kolbra?
>How was the Verner?
>I saw it on static display at Copper State, couldn't
>make up my mind about it. Looked kinda rough built.
>
>=====
>Ron
>Building M3X
>Southern Arizona
>
>__________________________________
>Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
>http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators update - success! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Built the wing perfectly flat. Built the ailerons with a 5/8" shim under
the trailing edges at the tip, affects only the outboard half of the
aileron. That is not much washout....
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 07:27 AM 10/27/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 10/20/03 11:08:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>donghe@one-eleven.net writes:
>
>
> > Richard , The staggered pattern makes perfect sense to me....
> >
> > As the best place for the VG to be attached is at the point on the wing
> just
> > before seperation begins...(which we cant see)
> >
> > now, as the angle of attack increases, then the point at where the
> > seperation begins also changes right?....
> >
> > so the best VG's would be ones that move along the wing and stay right
> ahead
> > of the point of seperation...since we cant do that, then a staggered
> > arrangement insures there is a VG in the optimium place about all angles of
> > attack.
> >
> >
> > I think.....
> >
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
> > Don Gherardini-
> > FireFly 098
> >
>.....Or....could the stagger be related to a wing that has..........washout?
>
>George Randolph
>Firestar Driver from The Villages (for 2 weeks)
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Count me in for Alaska. Am taking the month of July off for the trip.
> Can't pass up an opportunity for Kuffel Kakes. John, need to know what
> items are required for flying through Canada.
> Dave Rains
Hi Dave/Gang:
Great! The Alaska List is growing. I had forgotten you had
sent an earlier email stating you had planned to fly to
Alaska next summer to do some "fishing and prospecting".
For sures:
Tom and Betty Kuffel
John Hauck
John Williamson
Dave Rains
Maybes:
Ron Mason - completion of MKIIIX
Charlie Harris - completion of Kolbra
Bob Griffin - undecided
Bill Griffin - undecided
I can't think of any others at this time, or this early in
the morning with only one cup of coffee.
Take care,
john h
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Still working on an exhaust system for the Verner. It ran real good for the
short time I had on top the Kolbra. Had it on just long enough to verify all
the wiring and fit. Hope to have it back on within a month.
The cylinders are cast it looks like compared to the milled cylinders of the
Jabiru. Maybe the roughness of the casting will help dissipate heat better
than the Jabiru. I'll find out in the near future.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, SN: 008, Jabiru 2200, 497 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Mr. Kolb's
Mr. not Kolb's
R2
C.M. Wang's
I.B.
Mr. Kolb's
I couldn't resist....:-)
pp
do not archive
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Maybes:
Ron Mason - completion of MKIIIX
Charlie Harris - completion of Kolbra<-
Boy I am going to have to bow up to complete in 8 months!
Bob Griffin - undecided
Bill Griffin - undecided
Might make it though. So far it's been 6 weeks and the tail section is done with
the exception of the rudder witch will be completed tonight!
pp
do not archive
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
John, need to know what
> items are required for flying through Canada.
> Dave Rains
Dave/All:
I'll have to do some digging on this and it will be two to
three year old info.
If you are a member of AOPA, they will provide info. I
imagine EAA will also provide info, although I have not used
them.
Not much documentation for the Cessna. Experimentals need
to download a copy of a letter of authority to fly in
Canadian airspace off Transport Canada's web page. This is
an easy way to do it compared to the letter request to
Transport Canada and the 6 month hassle to get the approval
letter from them for my 1994 flight.
The big thing is "no handguns in Canada". Survival rifle,
shotgun with at least 18.5" barrel will get the job done.
This will cost $50 Canadian for a weapons permit to carry
through Canada. It is good for 12 months.
Aircraft Registration, Airworthiness Certificate, Pilot's
License, Insurance, Personal ID, and survival gear for
Canada and Alaska. Last flight I was only checked for my
little .22 Marlin Papoose survival rifle. Didn't look at
anything else. The 2000 flight I didn't see a custums agent
in Canada going up. Called Canadian Customs from Minot, ND,
and again when I landed at Estevan, SK. She gave me a
number to write down in my log book and I was good to go.
Now, with the weapons permit thing, you have to get eye ball
to eye ball with an agent.
Take care,
john h
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Might make it though. So far it's been 6 weeks and the
> tail section is done with the exception of the rudder
> witch will be completed tonight!
>
> pp
Paul/All:
After building three different Kolbs over a period of 8
years, plus doing some extremely serious/extensive repairs
on all those airplanes, I have discovered that putting a
deadline on completion takes away from the ultimate
enjoyment and satisfaction of building.
A deadline also influences the amount of time spent doing
that extra special job of finishing, adding accessories and
making modifications to fit ones personality.
Building is 50% of the entire homebuilt experience.
Take your time and enjoy the building phase.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re:bent 4130 steel gear leg |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com>
I have a set of them in my workshop somewhere. I tried them, but found them
to be too "springy" for my heavy Mk-3. Contact me off-list if interested.
do not archive
Bill George
Kolb Mk-3/Verner1400SVS/Powerfin 68" "F"
> From: Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:56:20 -0800
> To: Kolb-List Digest List <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 10/26/03
>
>
>
> Time: 04:32:10 PM PST US
> From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bent 4130 steel gear legs
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
> <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Kolb does offer spring steel gear for the MKIII as a $395 option. They are
> only app. two inches longer than the stock gear. If you want some thing else
> you need to make your own.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chris davis" <scrounge69@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bent 4130 steel gear legs
>
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "chris davis" <scrounge69@comcast.net>
>>
>> why doesn't new kolb just offer them as an optional gear?
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher J Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
I B 2 slow 4 U ( I DON'T GET IT)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Petty
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Humor
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Mr. Kolb's
Mr. not Kolb's
R2
C.M. Wang's
I.B.
Mr. Kolb's
I couldn't resist....:-)
pp
do not archive
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
Reading your post about the Alaska trip gives me goose bumps. Due to my work, It
will be many years before I will be able to take a month off to make a trip
like that.
One destination I plan to make when I become good enough to navigate long cross
countries is the Bahamas. I have read allot about the islands and it looks like
a super place to spend a week or so flying around finding secluded beaches
with a tent and fishing rod. It's only like 45 miles from Ft. Lauderdale FL to
the first island of Bimini. What a wonderful place to explore.
Nothing like Alaska I'm sure but a dang close second. And doable for me within
the next year or so.
Anybody in to this or know of rules that they don't tell you about in the brochures? www.flying.bahamas.com
pp
do not archive
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Roger that. If it happens to work out Charely will be there.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Alaska
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > Might make it though. So far it's been 6 weeks and the
> > tail section is done with the exception of the rudder
> > witch will be completed tonight!
> >
> > pp
>
> Paul/All:
>
> After building three different Kolbs over a period of 8
> years, plus doing some extremely serious/extensive repairs
> on all those airplanes, I have discovered that putting a
> deadline on completion takes away from the ultimate
> enjoyment and satisfaction of building.
>
> A deadline also influences the amount of time spent doing
> that extra special job of finishing, adding accessories and
> making modifications to fit ones personality.
>
> Building is 50% of the entire homebuilt experience.
>
> Take your time and enjoy the building phase.
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
I made a group for us in Yahoo. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kolbers/ It will allow us to have "Live" chat if any of you want to. Also we can use the message board to post non Kolb related without cluttering up Matt's wonderful site. I want to continue to use the list for "important" info about building and technical stuff. This is just a place to goof off. Also post photos that one can view right away, file swapping, ect. Mainly the chat room. These can be real fun if you haven't tried it. if any one wants to join just click on the above link and create a username and password. If any need help let me know.
pp
do not archive
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: destinations |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Hey
You hush now!!!
That is my secret plan. Now I am going to have John
the Hawk beat to it before I am done building my M3X.
In fact its in advanced planing stage as we speak.
do not archive.
--- Paul Petty <ppetty@c-gate.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty"
> <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Reading your post about the Alaska trip gives me
> goose bumps. Due to my work, It will be many years
> before I will be able to take a month off to make a
> trip like that.
> One destination I plan to make when I become good
> enough to navigate long cross countries is the
> Bahamas. I have read allot about the islands and it
> looks like a super place to spend a week or so
> flying around finding secluded beaches with a tent
> and fishing rod. It's only like 45 miles from Ft.
> Lauderdale FL to the first island of Bimini. What a
> wonderful place to explore.
> Nothing like Alaska I'm sure but a dang close
> second. And doable for me within the next year or
> so.
> Anybody in to this or know of rules that they don't
> tell you about in the brochures?
> www.flying.bahamas.com
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
Greeting everyone,
I have been hard at work building the horizontal
stabilizers and the Vertical stabilizer, and so far
having a great time. Everything has taken longer than
I thought, so I've decided to forget working inside a
timetable. I'll work till it's done! John Hauck's
posting this morning convinced me of that, thanks
John. Building the wings is coming soon, so I would
like to make some decisions on the wing configuration:
I have decided to strengthen the airframe such that I
can run a 1200 Lb. gross weight, and still have the
airframe strength margins built into the 1000 Lb.
design. Spent time talking with folks at Oshkosh, and
carefully going over the list archives for info on
this, and have made improvements to the tail as widely
discussed by John H. and others. Looking at the wings
I am in favor of the angle reinforcements John H. and
others have described, however after much stewing on
the matter, it occurred to me since the wing isn't
built yet, why not simply add ribs to the wing to
reduce the load on any one rib, thereby reducing the
chances of a rib failure by spreading the load? I
weighted the ribs, and at 9.6 ounces each, I could go
overboard and double the ribs, and only add about 10
Lbs. to the plane! This seems too easy; am I missing
something here? One concern I have is putting lots of
extra rivet holes in the spar: would that compromise
the spar integrity? It would add to the cost of
course, but besides that, from a structural
perspective, how does this sound? Anyone prefer the
angle reinforcements, or some other tactic to increase
strength in turbulent air while heavily loaded?
Thanks in advance, Jim
Jim Clayton
California
Mark-3X, Building
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: destinations |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Only 45 miles of open water.... Paul I flew over 10 miles of open water on
the way to Oshkosh and will never do that again. When you leave shore you
loose almost all reference (and this was on a good day) to the horizon. You
have blue above and blue below with ten degrees of blue/gray that sort of
marks the horizon. When I left the shore I couldn't see Beaver Island till I
was two to three miles off shore. I almost turned back to do the additional
100 miles over the Mackinac bridge. The pucker factor was way up there for
those twenty miles even with a island at the half way point. There is also
something to be said for a big instrument panel on those general aviation
airplanes that you can use for reference to the horizon. Maybe a big blinder
would have helped.
Can you say Kennedy
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: destinations
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Kolbers,
> Reading your post about the Alaska trip gives me goose bumps. Due to my
work, It will be many years before I will be able to take a month off to
make a trip like that.
> One destination I plan to make when I become good enough to navigate long
cross countries is the Bahamas. I have read allot about the islands and it
looks like a super place to spend a week or so flying around finding
secluded beaches with a tent and fishing rod. It's only like 45 miles from
Ft. Lauderdale FL to the first island of Bimini. What a wonderful place to
explore.
> Nothing like Alaska I'm sure but a dang close second. And doable for me
within the next year or so.
> Anybody in to this or know of rules that they don't tell you about in the
brochures? www.flying.bahamas.com
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 11:51 AM 10/23/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher J Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
>
>The air gets slowed overall, the vg is just a little vane stuck out in
>the wind creating drag after all. But the vortex generator generates a
>vortex (duh) a little tornado that mixes high speed air above the wing
>with the slower moving boundary layer air near the surface. This boasts
>the boundary layer so it has enough energy to stay attached at a higher
>angle of attack then it would otherwise, delaying separation and stall.
>At high speed, low angle of attack, the vgs add drag slowing the plane
>slightly. They still trip the boundary layer from laminar to turbulent,
>but the fabric wings of a Kolb were already turbulent so the claims that
>that might reduce drag like it does in some planes is not real likely.
>
>Topher
>
Topher,
Before I mounted the VG's on the wing and at cruise, I could move the stick about
two inches from side to side at cruise and the FireFly would not twitch or
roll. After mounting the VG's there was no dead spot. This would indicate that
the boundary layer over the ailerons and the rest of the wing is thinner than
before. And, since the boundary layer thickness is reduced there should also
be a corresponding reduction in drag.
Am I missing something?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X Wing mods? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
-???? you'll still have a 30' wing span and the same loading, The extra
ribs won't help.
If you want to get a little extra security go Mr. Hauck's jury strut
route. -BB
do not archive
Jim Clayton wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
>
>Greeting everyone,
>
>I have been hard at work building the horizontal
>stabilizers and the Vertical stabilizer, and so far
>having a great time. Everything has taken longer than
>I thought, so I've decided to forget working inside a
>timetable. I'll work till it's done! John Hauck's
>posting this morning convinced me of that, thanks
>John. Building the wings is coming soon, so I would
>like to make some decisions on the wing configuration:
> I have decided to strengthen the airframe such that I
>can run a 1200 Lb. gross weight, and still have the
>airframe strength margins built into the 1000 Lb.
>design. Spent time talking with folks at Oshkosh, and
>carefully going over the list archives for info on
>this, and have made improvements to the tail as widely
>discussed by John H. and others. Looking at the wings
>I am in favor of the angle reinforcements John H. and
>others have described, however after much stewing on
>the matter, it occurred to me since the wing isn't
>built yet, why not simply add ribs to the wing to
>reduce the load on any one rib, thereby reducing the
>chances of a rib failure by spreading the load? I
>weighted the ribs, and at 9.6 ounces each, I could go
>overboard and double the ribs, and only add about 10
>Lbs. to the plane! This seems too easy; am I missing
>something here? One concern I have is putting lots of
>extra rivet holes in the spar: would that compromise
>the spar integrity? It would add to the cost of
>course, but besides that, from a structural
>perspective, how does this sound? Anyone prefer the
>angle reinforcements, or some other tactic to increase
>strength in turbulent air while heavily loaded?
>
>Thanks in advance, Jim
>
>Jim Clayton
>California
>Mark-3X, Building
>
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Vortex generators installed |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher J Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Yes the boundary layer is thinner, cause the vortex generators are
grabbing air from outside the boundary layer and mixing it in to keep
the boundary layer from separating. To do this imparts energy to the
vortex generator drag). But eliminating the separation reduces drag, so
depending on the amount of separation you had you could get more drag,
the same or less.
But At cruise there should not be separation on the wing, that should
only occur during high aoa flight.
Remember that laminar flow has really low drag, but we dont have much
if any laminar flow on these fabric wings. So I was just pointing out
that using the vgs as a turbulator to trip the laminar flow to get
turbulent flow just doesnt apply to a Kolb. What the VGs are doing in
this case is delaying separation. If your plane is flying along at
cruise with separated flow on the wings that is really bad. But the vgs
would reduce drag and improve control if that is the case. How heavy
are you flying the Firefly? How do you have the ailerons rigged? You
might want to try reflexing them a bit for cruise cause they really
should not be separated at cruise.
Topher
---
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
Leave the handguns at home.
> Can't pass up an opportunity for Kuffel Kakes. John, need to know what
> items are required for flying through Canada.
> Dave Rains
> C-175B
> N8086T
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yahoo hanger |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Paul and all,
I think a lot of us use Matronic's because we don't have to put up with all
the pop-up ads and extra junk.
I'm staying right here.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, SN: 008, Jabiru 2200, 497 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
do not archive
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: M3X Wing mods? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Mmmm good point about extra ribs.
Another 3 spread even around the wing wouldn't do any
harm. I don't understand the angle reinforcement. Is
that an L shape strip riveted to the bottom side of
the ribs?
My wings aint covered yet so I still can install them.
--- Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton
> <jspc78@yahoo.com>
>
> Greeting everyone,
>
> I have been hard at work building the horizontal
> stabilizers and the Vertical stabilizer, and so far
> having a great time. Everything has taken longer
> than
> I thought, so I've decided to forget working inside
> a
> timetable. I'll work till it's done! John Hauck's
> posting this morning convinced me of that, thanks
> John. Building the wings is coming soon, so I would
> like to make some decisions on the wing
> configuration:
> I have decided to strengthen the airframe such that
> I
> can run a 1200 Lb. gross weight, and still have the
> airframe strength margins built into the 1000 Lb.
> design. Spent time talking with folks at Oshkosh,
> and
> carefully going over the list archives for info on
> this, and have made improvements to the tail as
> widely
> discussed by John H. and others. Looking at the
> wings
> I am in favor of the angle reinforcements John H.
> and
> others have described, however after much stewing on
> the matter, it occurred to me since the wing isn't
> built yet, why not simply add ribs to the wing to
> reduce the load on any one rib, thereby reducing the
> chances of a rib failure by spreading the load? I
> weighted the ribs, and at 9.6 ounces each, I could
> go
> overboard and double the ribs, and only add about 10
> Lbs. to the plane! This seems too easy; am I
> missing
> something here? One concern I have is putting lots
> of
> extra rivet holes in the spar: would that compromise
> the spar integrity? It would add to the cost of
> course, but besides that, from a structural
> perspective, how does this sound? Anyone prefer the
> angle reinforcements, or some other tactic to
> increase
> strength in turbulent air while heavily loaded?
>
> Thanks in advance, Jim
>
> Jim Clayton
> California
> Mark-3X, Building
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Yahoo hanger |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Thank you, John!
I really appreciate that vote of confidence! I'm hoping that all of the
Kolb-Listers are feeling the way that you do. I put a lot of work into
making the Matronics lists what they are -- high-performance, ad-free,
virus-free, and, um, free... (Well, except for the Fund Raiser. :-) )
Thanks again for the vote of confidence!
Matt Dralle
List Admin
At 08:18 PM 10/27/2003 Monday, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
>
>Paul and all,
>
>I think a lot of us use Matronic's because we don't have to put up with all
>the pop-up ads and extra junk.
>
>I'm staying right here.
>
>
>John Williamson
>Arlington, TX
>
>Kolb Kolbra, SN: 008, Jabiru 2200, 497 hours
>http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
>
>do not archive
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <kuffel@cyberport.net>
Woody advises:
<<Leave the handguns at home.>>
Very true. Also leave your automatic weapons. Anyone who wants to try
my Uzi's or other legal automatics (ask Big Lar) will have to do so
before we leave Whitefish.
There is a long laundry list of equipment you are required to carry.
Someday I'll dig up the current version and post it here. Basically you
want a sleeping bag, mosquito repellent, concentrated food (I favor
M&Ms, easy to munch in summer or winter), water, fishing line & hooks &
lures, wood cutter (axe, hand saw, etc), fire starter, knife, first aid
kit and signaling mirror. In some 2 dozen trips I've never had US or
Canadian customs inquire in more detail than "Do you have survival
gear?". They were always more interested in making sure the barrel of
my 20ga/.222 was long enough.
Do not archive.
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|