Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:03 AM - Muffler grease (Kirk Smith)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: M3X Wing mods? (John Hauck)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Kolb spins (John Hauck)
4. 07:08 AM - First Solo (Thumb)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: Muffler grease (Kelvin Kurkowski)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: Tail Surface VG Effects (Larry Bourne)
7. 08:00 AM - Re: 1/2 VW ()
8. 08:14 AM - solo (Paul Petty)
9. 08:17 AM - Re: Muffler grease (Kirk Smith)
10. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Jury struts (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
11. 08:28 AM - Re: M3X Wing mods? (William George)
12. 08:52 AM - Re: Tail Surface VG Effects (John Hauck)
13. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Jury struts (CaptainRon)
14. 09:49 AM - Re: Muffler grease (Guy Morgan)
15. 10:12 AM - Re: Kolb spins (John Clayton)
16. 10:20 AM - Re: Jury struts and strength ratings (Jim Clayton)
17. 10:42 AM - Re: Muffler grease (Kirk Smith)
18. 10:46 AM - Re: First Solo (John Cooley)
19. 11:10 AM - Re: Muffler grease (KolbTwinstar@aol.com)
20. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Jury struts (John Williamson)
21. 12:02 PM - chat room (Paul Petty)
22. 01:52 PM - Re: Muffler grease (David & Maria Lumgair)
23. 01:58 PM - VG testing on early FS 377 (Thom Riddle)
24. 02:11 PM - Re: chat room (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
25. 02:20 PM - Re: solo (beauford)
26. 02:23 PM - Re: destinations (HShack@aol.com)
27. 04:12 PM - chat (Paul Petty)
28. 04:17 PM - floats (Mid-State Sandblasting)
29. 04:23 PM - chat (Paul Petty)
30. 04:46 PM - Re: 1/2 VW (jerb)
31. 04:59 PM - Re: chat room (CaptainRon)
32. 04:59 PM - Re: 1/2 VW (jerb)
33. 05:06 PM - Re: Re: Jury struts (Larry Bourne)
34. 05:08 PM - Re: Muffler grease (jerb)
35. 05:14 PM - Re: Tail Surface VG Effects (Larry Bourne)
36. 05:22 PM - Re: Muffler grease (Larry Bourne)
37. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Jury struts (Larry Bourne)
38. 05:31 PM - Re: VG testing on early FS 377 (Larry Bourne)
39. 05:43 PM - Re: VG testing on early FS 377 (Richard Pike)
40. 06:36 PM - Re: chat room (ron wehba)
41. 06:37 PM - elevator trim (bryan green)
42. 07:06 PM - Re: Tail Surface VG Effects (John Hauck)
43. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Jury struts (John Williamson)
44. 11:23 PM - Fires (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Where and what kind of grease do I use on the expansion chamber joint on my 447
exhaust? Thanks! Kirk
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: M3X Wing mods? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> What about Miss P fer John, Does she
> have the internal tubes and jury struts or just the jury
> struts? Sincerely, Dennis Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR, PA
Morning Dennis/All:
I used streamlined 4130 struts on my Firestar and initially
on the MK III. One strut was destroyed during the initial
testing crash of the MKIII. 4130 streamline tubing is very
expensive. I didn't have the money to buy more. When I
rebuilt I ruined two sets of extruded aluminum streamlined
struts attempting to drill the bolt holes for the lift strut
end fittings. For some reason I could not get them drilled
correctly.
I ended up having Brother Jim weld me up a lift strut of
4130, .058 wall X an inch, or whatever the inside diameter
of the alum strut is. Then I used the alum streamlined
strut over the round 4130 tube for drag reduction only. The
streamlined struts are secured with a couple 1/8 rivets on
each end. I get called on this occasionally. Folks want to
know if I am comfortable with the attachment of the lift
strut fittings with so few 1/8 rivets.
Take care,
john h
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Glad to hear from you sir, and I was thinking that
> meeting you and your son at OshKosh was my pleasure!
> Don
> Gherardini- FireFly 098
John, Jim, Don, and All:
I'll echo my sentiments also.
John and Jim Clayton thoroughly grilled me during Oshkosh
2003. Their interrogation displayed their true interest in
building a Kolb and doing the kind of long distance cross
country flying that a lot of us on the Kolb List enjoy.
They wanted an airplane that would fill their requirements
and settled on the MK IIIX.
I'm glad they decided to buy the Kolb at Oshkosh.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thumb" <Bill-Jo@prodigy.net>
Congratulations Paul.
I know the feeling, fly safe!!
Bill Futrell
MK111Xtra
Do Not Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" <kkurkow@chase3000.com>
Snuff,
Don't know much abt aircraft, but in the heavy mechanical world, our life
sure got easier when we learned to use anti-sieze compound (silver) on all
exhaust components. We use permatex brand but I'm sure there are others. It
will dry out, but unlike grease, it never gets "sticky", and it's the only
thing we've found that can take the heat and still be there when you remove
the parts, years later. Probably better ideas out there? It works for the
ground-bound stuff. KK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Muffler grease
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>
> Where and what kind of grease do I use on the expansion chamber joint on
my 447 exhaust? Thanks! Kirk
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Surface VG Effects |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I am amazed. All those people out there building Kolbs, and only 6 have
been curious enuf about in-flight variable rudder trim to look at a
solution. Hmmmm...................??? Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail Surface VG Effects
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
> To take that idea of the stronger spring a step further, take a look on my
> website, under "Building Vamoose," then open "Rudder Trim." You might
find
> it interesting. Lar.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike@charter.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail Surface VG Effects
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
> >
> > I don't know about the FF's, but the MKIII uses springs to keep a little
> > tension on the rudder pedals - what if we put a stronger spring on the
> left
> > one? Or is that too simple...?
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <rowedl@highstream.net>
Will,
That Firestar with the 1/2 VW on the nose was featured in Experimenter some
years back, the fellow sells plans for his VW conversion. I beleive his adds
say "How I built my smooth 1/2 VW" or something like that.
I agree that the performance is to anemic for my taste.
Denny Rowe
----- Original Message -----
From: <WillUribe@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 1/2 VW
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
>
> About a year or two ago I posted some FireStar pictures from St. Louis
with a
> VW engine mounted on the nose. Now I can't find those pictures.
>
> Will Uribe
> El Paso, TX (but working in Kansas City).
> FireStar II N4GU
> C-172 N2506U
> http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
> do not archive
>
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
> > >
> > > Has anyone put a 1/2 VW engine on a Firestar?
> > > Pro's
> > > Con's
> > > Advice
> > >
> > > The Flying Farmer
> > > Firestar
> > > 377
> > > 157 hours
>
>
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Thanks to all for the support. I'm still in the clouds.....
pp
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski" got easier when we
learned to use anti-sieze compound (silver) on all
> exhaust components. We use permatex brand but I'm sure there are others.
That must be the stuff. Merci mucho! Kirk
Do not archive
Message 10
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Jim
The attached is a photo of a page from my blue prints for my MKIIIc.
I see you going to get the instrument panel from Craig. He appears to do
great work. If I had known he is in Phoenix I would have stopped by when I
was there two week ago to measure his engine cowl for my VW wow would that
ever be nice. More streamlining, less noise, and looks better.
Just don't get side tracked with too many modifications. When you change one
thing often it will lead to another. Don't get caught in the Bourne effect.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Clayton" <jspc78@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jury struts
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
>
> Rick/Gang,
>
> I didn't realize jury struts were standard in the
> past. I suppose I could call TNK and get drawings or
> pictures? If anyone has pictures or a website with
> the details, please post them.
>
> Thanks for the flood of quality info, people!
>
>
> Jim Clayton
> California
> Mark-3X, Building
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha
> Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Jim
>
> My MKIIIc has jury struts with clevis pins. There is
> one clevis pin on the
> wing attach end. The other end is permanently attached
> to the main strut but
> folds flat with the main strut when disconnected for
> wing fold. My MKIIIc
> was one of the last few that had stock jury struts
> before they changed to
> full length tube supports in the main struts that
> eliminated the need for
> the jury struts. The jury struts add drag and only
> help with negative G
> limits. Ok and also when a wheel breaks off.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIc
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: M3X Wing mods? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: William George <wgeorge@mountainmeadowranch.com>
Mine has a small clevis pin and is mounted in a way that allows the jury
strut to swivelat the strut end. It has an end-wise slot cut into the wing
attach end. The slot connects to a tab extending out of the bottom of the
wing. The strut has a hole drilled radially through the slot area and the
tab has a hole for the clevis pin.
Since I didn't build the airplane I can't tell you how the tab is attached
internally.
No close ups, but you can see the struts in several photos at this site:
http://wgeorge737.tripod.com/kolbalbum/
Bill George
www.mountainmeadowranch.com
808-775-9376
> From: Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Reply-To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:56:30 -0800
> To: Kolb-List Digest List <kolb-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 58 Msgs - 10/29/03
>
> Time: 06:33:54 AM PST US
> From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M3X Wing mods?
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
>> Has anyone tried a jury strut with clevis pins or some
>> other quick disconnect fitting to allow wing folding?
>
>> Jim Clayton
>
> Jim/All:
>
> Will have to take a look at the MK III plans I have to see
> if there was provision for quick release of jury strut.
>
> I didn't like the idea of drill a hole in the lift strut to
> attach hardware for jury strut, as called for in the plans.
> I used 4130 strap shaped around the lift strut with the
> ends bent up to form to tangs for 3/16 bolt to attach strut.
> Takes but a second to undo the little nut and bolt.
>
> On the main spar gusset, used some SS fuel tank strap to
> configure the upper attach point by riveting the tang on the
> gusset.
>
> Works for me,
>
> john h
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Surface VG Effects |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Hmmmm...................???
Larry B/All:
Be amazed no longer. I just looked at your web page
reference adjustable rudder trim. Looks good.
I use a simple rudder trim tab. Once adjusted correctly for
yaw trim at cruise, I find that it is "set and forget".
Cruise flight is the most annoying period of flying that
requires some help in the yaw department. Other phases of
flight in the MK III are very short, for the most part. We
climb fast, descend fast. Sorta whip right through those
areas.............
john h
PS: Hope you feel better.
Message 13
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Does anyone have any figures on the -g loading of the
stock M3X. I wonder what it is? and why that's
prompting this discussion relative to the M3X.
The standard struts are plenty stiff from my light
cursury testing.
=============================================
> Rick/Gang,
>
> I didn't realize jury struts were standard in the
> past. I suppose I could call TNK and get drawings
> or
> pictures? If anyone has pictures or a website with
> the details, please post them.
>
> Thanks for the flood of quality info, people!
>
>
> Jim Clayton
> California
> Mark-3X, Building
>
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha
> Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Jim
>
> My MKIIIc has jury struts with clevis pins. There is
> one clevis pin on the
> wing attach end. The other end is permanently
> attached
> to the main strut but
> folds flat with the main strut when disconnected for
> wing fold. My MKIIIc
> was one of the last few that had stock jury struts
> before they changed to
> full length tube supports in the main struts that
> eliminated the need for
> the jury struts. The jury struts add drag and only
> help with negative G
> limits. Ok and also when a wheel breaks off.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIc
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
I work on helicopters for a living. You need high temp anti-sieze. The regular
silver stuff you buy at the auto parts store is only good to 800 degrees or so.
The stuff we use on turbines is good to 1400 degrees. I think we get it from
Aviall, not sure.
Guy Morgan
-- Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski"
Don't know much abt aircraft, but in the heavy mechanical world, our life
sure got easier when we learned to use anti-sieze compound (silver) on all
exhaust components. and it's the only
thing we've found that can take the heat and still be there when you remove
the parts, years later. Probably better ideas out there? It works for the
ground-bound stuff. KK
<a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2743??PS=">Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for one month!
Message 15
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Clayton" <jclayton@usamedia.tv>
John H, Don G, and All,
Jim is the one who bought and is building the MarkIII extra with the Classic
Wing down in Silicone Valley. I'm just an interested observer hoping to
view and photo the 4-corners area of the southwest, Canada and Alaska. I'll
leave it to the "Chuck Yeager's" of the Kolb family to make the trips safe
and interesting. John Clayton - (Jim's dad)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hauck
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb spins
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Glad to hear from you sir, and I was thinking that
> meeting you and your son at OshKosh was my pleasure!
> Don
> Gherardini- FireFly 098
John, Jim, Don, and All:
I'll echo my sentiments also.
John and Jim Clayton thoroughly grilled me during Oshkosh
2003. Their interrogation displayed their true interest in
building a Kolb and doing the kind of long distance cross
country flying that a lot of us on the Kolb List enjoy.
They wanted an airplane that would fill their requirements
and settled on the MK IIIX.
I'm glad they decided to buy the Kolb at Oshkosh.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Jury struts and strength ratings |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jim Clayton <jspc78@yahoo.com>
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon
<aerialron@yahoo.com>
Does anyone have any figures on the -g loading of the
stock M3X. I wonder what it is? and why that's
prompting this discussion relative to the M3X.
The standard struts are plenty stiff from my light
cursury testing.
-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Ron/all,
I'm partially to blame for this noise about airframe
strength; since I am building a higher gross weight
machine, I wanted to explore all areas of the design.
It seems to me the Kolbs are perfectly designed for
the weights the factory suggests.
-Jim
Jim Clayton
California
Mark-3X, Building
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> I work on helicopters for a living. You need high temp anti-sieze. The
regular silver stuff you buy at the auto parts store is only good to 800
degrees or so. The stuff we use on turbines is good to 1400 degrees. I think
we get it from Aviall, not sure.
>
>
> Guy Morgan
Found some in the LEAF catalog once I knew what to look for. It's rated at
1200 F. Should be ok? Kirk
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Cooley" <johnc@datasync.com>
Congrats Paul. Sounds like it was hair raising on that first landing.
Something I will have to work on in the near future or hope the sport
pilot thing will come to pass and be a viable option as I plan to do
some traveling in the MK III.
"do not archive"
John Cooley
Subject: Kolb-List: First Solo
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
I SOLOED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow nothing like I
expected.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: KolbTwinstar@aol.com
If they need anyone to fly any helicopters I have my /Helicopter commercial
and instructors ratings.
Tracy Briggs
Do Not Archive.
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
The Kolbra is not designed with jury struts and none are mentioned in the
plans.
If I had known about then when I was building, I would have included then on
my Kolbra. With the Jabiru engine running at 2900-3000 rpm, a harmonic
vibration is set up in the lift struts that can be felt through the
airframe, seen very clearly and can be heard if you listen closely. I think
the jury strut could eliminate that vibration.
I'm not going to open up the wing to install them but if I ever have to open
the wing for any other reason, a set of jury struts will go on.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, SN: 008, Jabiru 2200, 497 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
do not archive
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Matt,
the chat room works great! I love it
pp
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
I am getting a kick out of this thread - In the military we always sent the
"boot campers" (new guys) for "muffler bearing grease." WELL I'LL BE! When
I was a boot one of the guys sent me for "relative bearing grease", I
actually had a tub of Relative brand grease for trailer bearings in my jeep
so I just went out to the jeep and got it - really burned the Chief up -
glad nobody ever burned me on the muffler grease thing. Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" <kkurkow@chase3000.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Muffler grease
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski"
<kkurkow@chase3000.com>
>
> Snuff,
> Don't know much abt aircraft, but in the heavy mechanical world, our life
> sure got easier when we learned to use anti-sieze compound (silver) on all
> exhaust components. We use permatex brand but I'm sure there are others.
It
> will dry out, but unlike grease, it never gets "sticky", and it's the only
> thing we've found that can take the heat and still be there when you
remove
> the parts, years later. Probably better ideas out there? It works for
the
> ground-bound stuff. KK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> To: "Kolblist" <Kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Muffler grease
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> >
> > Where and what kind of grease do I use on the expansion chamber joint on
> my 447 exhaust? Thanks! Kirk
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | VG testing on early FS 377 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
I just finished(mostly) the flight testing of the FS 377 after installing VGs.
Here is what I did and the results. I used Jack Hart's design. I originally did
not taper the vertical "legs" of the VGs but then decided they looked better
tapered so I ended up doing it after all.
Take-off Wt: 537#
Before VGs:
T/O speed in 3-point stance: 32 mph IAS
Stall speed power off: 30 mph IAS
Stall character: mush
First VG Test:
VG location: Front of each VG 11" from leading edge, in each valley between
ribs, 19 on each wing.
T/O speed in 3-point stance: 30 mph IAS
Stall speed power off: 27 mph IAS
Stall character: abrupt
I did not like the abruptness of the stall so I decided to relocate them in a tapered
pattern. Based on the approximated curvature of the upper surface of the
wing, I calculated that the tangent point would move about 1/8" per degree of
change of AOA. Since the 3-point stance has an AOA of about 11 degrees I figured
I would have the tapered location of the VGs run from tangent at 6 degrees
to 16 degrees. Therefore I located the front of the outermost(nearest wingtip)
VG at 10 3/8" from the leading edge and the inner most VG at 11 5/8". I then
strung fishing line between these and placed the others along that line.
I had no idea if this would work but apparently my reasoning was sound because
it improved the stall behavior w/o sacrificing much in stall speed and nothing
in T/O speed.
Second VG Test:
VG location: as described above
T/O speed in 3-point stance: 30 mph IAS
Stall speed power off: 28 mph IAS
Stall character: crisp but smooth
I then wanted to see if roll and pitch control could be improved as I've read in
other's reports. So I added VGs in front of the ailerons and on the bottom leading
edge of the horizontal stabilizer.
Third VG Test:
additional VG location:
I added 14 VGs to each wing about 3" in front of the ailerons. I put them directly
in line with the false ribs so they would not be directly behind with the
forward VGs. I also added one about 9" from the wing tip. I placed five(5) VGs
on the bottom of the each side of the horizontal stabilizer evenly spaced (about
9" apart) just behind the leading edge, like Jack Hart shows on his website.
I was going to put some VGs on the vertical stabilizer but ran out because
I used more on the ailerons than I had anticipated.
Results: The roll control and pitch control before were not bad but not great
either. With the additional VGs the roll and pitch control in very slow flight
is now as good as I had on the Zenith 701 I used to own and that aircraft had
the best slow flight roll and pitch control of any aircraft I've ever flown in
my 36 years of flying.
When landing I came in rather high as is my custom and had to slip to get it down.
It now slips much better and I had total control in a steep decent (well as
steep as you can get w/o flaps) slipping dramatically at an IAS of 35!
Conclusion:
The VGs on the ailerons and horizontal stabilizer enabled much more precise control
in slow flight. For those interested in trying VGs on their Kolb, I would
definitely do these first. The improvement was really dramatic.
The tapered pattern, I believe, improved the character of the stall w/o sacrificing
absolute stall speed enough to care about. The tapered pattern did not increase
or reduce the 3 point stance t/o speed as compared to the straight across
location.
Thom R.
early FS 377 (now w/ VGs :-)
Message 24
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"Kolb-List: chat room" (Oct 30, 1:03pm)
--> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Awesome! I'm glad to hear you like it. I'll clean up the page a
little this weekend and bring up rooms for the rest of the Lists.
For those that haven't given it a try yet, surf over to here:
http://www.matronics.com/chat/kolb-list
Matt
>--------------
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
>Matt,
>the chat room works great! I love it
>
>pp
>
>do not archive
>
>
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 25
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "beauford" <beauford@tampabay.rr.com>
Hope you filed IFR.... :-)
Beauford
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Kolb-List: solo
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Thanks to all for the support. I'm still in the clouds.....
>
> pp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: destinations |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: HShack@aol.com
In a message dated 10/28/03 10:43:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
flykolb@carolina.rr.com writes:
> What altitude would you need to have to glide 22.5 miles in case of an
> engine out?
>
> Jim
> Mark III
>
>
You get your friends to station "Go--fast boats" at about 20 & 40 miles out.
With radios.
Shack
Fs II
SC
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Hey Kolbers,
Join Matt D and us in the chat room it's neato!
http://www.matronics.com/chat/kolb-list/
do not archive
pp
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane@rtmc.net>
any body interested in a set of floats that could be used on a Kolb
one large fiberglass for the center, two small floats that hang down off the
wing, retractable landing gear is built into the center float. they
came off of a spitfire. no mounting brackets for a Kolb
Randy
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Hey Guys, come chat with me and Matt in the new chat room
http://www.matronics.com/chat/kolb-list/
do not archive
pp
Message 30
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
The problem going direct drive is the only way you get adequate power is
turning high RPM which then becomes a prop efficiency problem. Running at
high RPM forces the uses of short prop to keep from going super sonic -
then your RPM limit restricts the amount of power you can extract out of
the engine. With a redrive you can run the engine at higher RPM to
generate the power and with the redrive slow the prop down to turn a larger
diameter prop for greater efficiency. Trying to run Subaru's direct drive
you run into the same problem.
jerb
At 09:52 AM 10/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
>It would be interesting to see a list of the variety of powerplants that
>have
>propelled Kolbs through the years, including the chainsaw engines.
>You would have to be innovative to get much power out of the two-banger
>vw. I still think that for the heavier machines, a direct drive vw could be
>successful. -the first requirement would be the longest stroke available
>in conjuction with the smallest (83m) bore. You want the highest
>piston speed per revolution and a low ~7:1 compression ratio to approximate
>a "real" airplane engine. The high piston velocity fakes the engine into
>thinking it's turning a higher rpm. Check out the piston speed on a PW 985
>or 7 cyl Jacobs vs crank rpm. -BB do not archive
>
>Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com wrote:
>
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com
> >
> >Has anyone put a 1/2 VW engine on a Firestar?
> >Pro's
> >Con's
> >Advice
> >
> >The Flying Farmer
> >Firestar
> >377
> >157 hours
> >
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
I tried it just a few minute ago and I got a message
the Server license will not permit many users.
-- Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by:
> dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
> Awesome! I'm glad to hear you like it. I'll clean
> up the page a
> little this weekend and bring up rooms for the rest
> of the Lists.
>
> For those that haven't given it a try yet, surf over
> to here:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat/kolb-list
>
> Matt
>
>
> >--------------
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty"
> <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> >
> >Matt,
> >the chat room works great! I love it
> >
> >pp
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >--------------
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 |
> Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX |
> dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring
> Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Message 32
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Yep, at idle the sharp power pulses generate a lot of shaking which flows
into the aircraft structure seen as significant vibration. My friends
N3-Pup the tail would just shake violently while the engine was at slow
idle. Once you brought up the RPM some it would smooth out. I don't think
you could pull 50-60 house out of 1/2=VW that would hold together for
long. 40 HP would probably be about the best you could get.
jerb
At 05:47 PM 10/29/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
>
>As Rick said, and has been said before - the VW needs a re-drive to get its
>RPM's up, and a prop to match. It also depends a lot on WHich 1/2 VW. 1/2
>of a stock 1600 is going to be pretty anemic whatever you do. 1/2 of a
>2110cc or 2180cc is going to have a lot more go-gittum - probably on the
>order of 50 - 60 horses. I'm not certain, but have heard that the 1/2 VW's
>have quite a bit of vibration. Any one know about that ??
>Lar.
>
>Larry Bourne
>Palm Springs, CA
>Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
>www.gogittum.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 1/2 VW
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
> >
> > I can tell you the difference between a 1/2 VW and a 447 Rotax on a
> > Minimax. The Rotax flat humiliates the VW. Wouldn't have a half VW.
>Take
> > off distance with 447 100 feet on 80 degree day. Take off with VW same day
> > 600 feet. Kirk
> >
> >
>
>
Message 33
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Yah, right, Pal.................I think the Bourne effect has affected my
sanic Identity. Vamoose is STILL at the A&P's for the landing gear. I
literally hafta BE there, whuppin' him, or he'll work on who ever IS there
and whuppin' on him. It's getting ridiculous. "Next Week," for sure. :-)
...............and doan be pickin' on me. Lar.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jury struts
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
<NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Jim
>
> The attached is a photo of a page from my blue prints for my MKIIIc.
>
> I see you going to get the instrument panel from Craig. He appears to do
> great work. If I had known he is in Phoenix I would have stopped by when I
> was there two week ago to measure his engine cowl for my VW wow would that
> ever be nice. More streamlining, less noise, and looks better.
>
> Just don't get side tracked with too many modifications. When you change
one
> thing often it will lead to another. Don't get caught in the Bourne
effect.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
I use the regular Permatex stuff from the local auto parts. Haven't had
any problem with it. Keeps the ball and socket from rusting together and
helps seal the joint. All use a little on the threads of the sparker
plugs. Note, a little hear goes a long ways - don't get it on the tip or
electrode insulator.
jerb
At 05:49 PM 10/30/03 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
>I work on helicopters for a living. You need high temp anti-sieze. The
>regular silver stuff you buy at the auto parts store is only good to 800
>degrees or so. The stuff we use on turbines is good to 1400 degrees. I
>think we get it from Aviall, not sure.
>
>
>Guy Morgan
>
>
>-- Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski"
>
>
> Don't know much abt aircraft, but in the heavy mechanical world, our life
>
>
>sure got easier when we learned to use anti-sieze compound (silver) on all
>exhaust components. and it's the only
>thing we've found that can take the heat and still be there when you remove
>the parts, years later. Probably better ideas out there? It works for the
>ground-bound stuff. KK
>
>
> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2743??PS=">Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam
> control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for
> one month!
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tail Surface VG Effects |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I thought you had taken the idea, several years ago, and made it better with
a wheel or something instead of a lever ?? I liked it better than mine.
Was that you ?? If not, whoooo ??? Lar. Do
not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail Surface VG Effects
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > Hmmmm...................???
>
> Larry B/All:
>
> Be amazed no longer. I just looked at your web page
> reference adjustable rudder trim. Looks good.
.
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Muffler grease |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
That's good to know, but the ratings must be conservative. I use Bostick
brand, which is a copper color (and just as messy as Permatex), and have
used it on automotive and marine exhaust manifold nuts for years. Never had
one stick, or come loose prematurely. The stuff is truly worth the money.
For you home handymen; I use it at work on all outdoor electrical boxes,
and now the other guys have been converted, too. Putting an EMT or Liquid
Tite fitting in a Bell box without anti-sieze (or even a little ordinary
grease) will guarantee it to corrode into a solid chunk in a year or 2,
requiring you to destroy it while trying to fix it. I will
check out your stuff, tho'................my can is nearly empty.
Pity..........it only lasted about 7 or 8 years. Lar.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Muffler grease
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" <morganguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
> I work on helicopters for a living. You need high temp anti-sieze. The
regular silver stuff you buy at the auto parts store is only good to 800
degrees or so. The stuff we use on turbines is good to 1400 degrees. I think
we get it from Aviall, not sure.
>
>
> Guy Morgan
>
>
> -- Kolb-List message posted by: "Kelvin Kurkowski"
>
>
> Don't know much abt aircraft, but in the heavy mechanical world, our life
>
>
> sure got easier when we learned to use anti-sieze compound (silver) on all
> exhaust components. and it's the only
> thing we've found that can take the heat and still be there when you
remove
> the parts, years later. Probably better ideas out there? It works for the
> ground-bound stuff. KK
>
>
> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2743??PS=">Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam
control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for one
month!
>
>
Message 37
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|
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Didn't you just install a Verner ?? It'll be interesting to see if that
harmonic is still there with the new engine. Have you flown the Verner yet
?? Or is my alleged memory all wet - again ?? Lar.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jury struts
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
<kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
>
> The Kolbra is not designed with jury struts and none are mentioned in the
> plans.
>
> If I had known about then when I was building, I would have included then
on
> my Kolbra. With the Jabiru engine running at 2900-3000 rpm, a harmonic
> vibration is set up in the lift struts that can be felt through the
> airframe, seen very clearly and can be heard if you listen closely. I
think
> the jury strut could eliminate that vibration.
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: VG testing on early FS 377 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
Hmmmm....................this is one of the very few that gets bookmarked.
Thanks Thom. Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: VG testing on early FS 377
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> I just finished(mostly) the flight testing of the FS 377 after installing
VGs. Here is what I did and the results. I used Jack Hart's design. I
originally did not taper the vertical "legs" of the VGs but then decided
they looked better tapered so I ended up doing it after all.
>
> Take-off Wt: 537#
>
> Before VGs:
> T/O speed in 3-point stance: 32 mph IAS
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: VG testing on early FS 377 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Good show! Since my MKIII already does well in slow flight, you have me
curious as to how it would do with a bunch of vg's a few inches in front of
the flaps?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 04:58 PM 10/30/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
>I just finished(mostly) the flight testing of the FS 377 after installing
>VGs.
<snip>
Message 40
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
come on guys it's neat try it!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: chat room
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
>
> Awesome! I'm glad to hear you like it. I'll clean up the page a
> little this weekend and bring up rooms for the rest of the Lists.
>
> For those that haven't given it a try yet, surf over to here:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat/kolb-list
>
> Matt
>
>
> >--------------
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> >
> >Matt,
> >the chat room works great! I love it
> >
> >pp
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >--------------
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
Message 41
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I want to put a simple trim tab on my planes elevator. Where and what size? do
not archive. Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 377 BRS
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Surface VG Effects |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I thought you had taken the idea, several years ago, and
> made it better with a wheel or something instead of a
> lever ?? Lar.
Larry/All:
I use a wheel for pitch trim.
Trim tab for rudder.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 43
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
Larry B and all,
Haven't flown the Verner yet but getting closer. Got some parts back from
the machine shop and the exhaust pipes are now progressing. Will cut the
rest of the pipes this weekend and have them welded up next week.
I just might fly with the Verner 155M before Thanksgiving. With the
different rpm range with the new engine and the three blade prop, my lift
struts might not vibrate anymore.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra, SN: 008, Jabiru 2200, 497 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
do not archive
Message 44
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Last weekend I almost got caught in the beginning of the huge forest fires burning in SoCal right now, on my way home from a trip to the high Sierras. Got some reasonably good pics, and published them in "Devil's Post Pile," the 2nd part of the trip to the "Bristlecone Pines." http://www.webpictures.homestead.com/travelling.html and go to "Weekends." Lar. Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
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