---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/05/03: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:33 AM - List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:44 AM - Re: List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? (Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com) 3. 06:20 AM - Original Firestar Totalled (John Hauck) 4. 07:47 AM - Craig Nelson (Clay Stuart) 5. 08:58 AM - insert (Paul Petty) 6. 09:43 AM - Re: insert (John Hauck) 7. 09:51 AM - Re: insert (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 8. 11:20 AM - Re: insert (Paul Petty) 9. 11:34 AM - painting tip (woody) 10. 12:28 PM - Dual Facet fuel pumps (Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM) 11. 12:33 PM - Re: insert (John Hauck) 12. 12:55 PM - Re: M3X throttle configuration (Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM) 13. 01:54 PM - Re: insert (Paul Petty) 14. 02:30 PM - Re: painting tip (John Hauck) 15. 03:25 PM - shuting down private strips (boyd young) 16. 03:25 PM - paterns at private strips (boyd young) 17. 05:32 PM - Re: Craig Nelson (CRAIG M NELSON) 18. 06:09 PM - Re: Craig Nelson (John Hauck) 19. 07:34 PM - Re: painting tip (woody) 20. 08:35 PM - Re: epoxy primer (CRAIG M NELSON) 21. 10:16 PM - Re: insert (CaptainRon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:14 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, The List Fund Raiser is going well so far this year and I wanted to say "Thank You" to everyone that has made a Contribution already this year! Though the generous support of Andy Gold and the Builders Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I'm able to offer some truly awesome gifts with qualifying Contributions this year. There's quite a line up and a rather diverse set of options - certainly something for every taste and personality. Here's a list of this year's fine options: * List Archive CD * Aircraft Builder's Log * Pilot Flashlight System * Pro Pilot Logbook * FAR/AIM on CD * Jeppesen Flight Bag * Aviation History Book * Techstar Flight Computer Please support your Email List Community AND pick up a really slick Gift at the same time! The SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/contributions Once again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously supported the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists Services here on the Matronics servers!! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? From: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com 11/05/2003 07:43:54 AM, Serialize complete at 11/05/2003 07:43:54 AM, Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 11/05/2003 07:43:41 AM, Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 11/05/2003 07:43:43 AM, Serialize complete at 11/05/2003 07:43:43 AM --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dwight.Kottke@hti.htch.com Matt, I just sent in a contribution to your fine publication. I did notice one thing though. The time stamp is three hours earlier than I am here in the central time zone. So either you have not turned your clock back yet or you are in the Alaska time zone..... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:46 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Kolb-List: Original Firestar Totalled --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Morning Gang: Just got off the phone with Paul "Bart" Bartholomew, Wax Hax, NC. Was good to talk to him. Been a long time. The Original Firestar was built by Bart and three other JAARS people in 1987. They shared ownership in the ultralight. It was registered experimental, the only one I know of sporting an "N" number. JAARS is the acronym for Jungle Air and Radio Service. They support translators for the Wycliff Bible Society, translating the Bible into some languages that do not have written words. In these cases, they must develop the written language in order to translate the Bible. They work primarily in South American, the Pacific, and other remote countries of the world. Here is a link to their web site: http://www.jaars.org/ This is the link to the aviation side of JAARS: http://www.jaars.org/aviation.shtml Neil was flying the Firestar when it went down. He was doing the classic low level, slow flight around a group of friends on the ground. Got to slow, too tight, stalled the aircraft and went into the woods. Left wing made contact with a tree trunk about 6" in diameter, just to the left of the fuselage. This caused the aircraft to spin left helping dissipate a lot of energy while it was still crashing. Neil ended up with a cut on his forehead only. Another Kolb survivor. However, the Firestar is now history. Bart said it was too far gone for rebuild. This Firestar was still powered by the original 377 Rotax and had 870 hours time on airframe and engine. Bart told me if you take care of the engine, watch those temps, that they will last a long time. This is probably record time for a 377 without a crank rebuild. Their flights were made primarily at 4,300 rpm. Not in a hurry to go anywhere, they sorta levitated over the trees and mountains, enjoying what God has given them. This was Homer Kolb's idea of what the Ultrastar and Firestar were to be used for. They have acquired a Firestar II and are in the process of getting it flyable. It is powered by a 503 and is "N" numbered. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:39 AM PST US From: "Clay Stuart" Subject: Kolb-List: Craig Nelson --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Man, I'm never going to get my plane finished after seeing Craig's work. I just ordered a joggle tool to make my fuel doors flush mounted. I hadn't thought of that before. I am planning on using Hartwell flush mount cowl latches to secure the doors instead of Craig's cam-locks. Should they be OK? Craig can you detail all the switches on the panel below your instrument pod? I plan on using the stock Mark IIIXtra pod inverted to look much like Craig's, but maybe put my GPS on a stalk mount off to my left. I don't believe that there is enough room for the GPS on the stock pod. Craig, what is the little scooped out place on your nose cone for? How did you fabricate that change? Craig, when are you going to start taking orders for engine cowlings? Thanks, Clay Stuart Building Xtra, but losing ground because of Craig's inspiring craftsmanship ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:49 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, Last night I was finishing up the rudder and when I got to the part of installing the rudder's leading edge insert or spar insert as the plans call it I realized that I wound up with 2 6"x.750x.058 tubing instead of 1 12" piece that the plans call for. Would any of you use the 2 pieces in there or order a 12" piece from somewhere? pp do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:56 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Paul/All: Think about that piece a minute, what its purpose in life is, then decide what to do. If you have anymore questions, let'em fly. john h Would any > of you use the 2 pieces in there or order a 12" piece > from somewhere? > > pp ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:46 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Paul Been there and done that. Order a 12" piece. Don't second guess the designer on structural issues. It is a good lesson that I'm sure you know now but read very carefully and read ahead. There are a number of places were you have to cut you stock just right so that you have the right length for a later piece. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: insert > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Kolbers, > Last night I was finishing up the rudder and when I got to the part of installing the rudder's leading edge insert or spar insert as the plans call it I realized that I wound up with 2 6"x.750x.058 tubing instead of 1 12" piece that the plans call for. Would any of you use the 2 pieces in there or order a 12" piece from somewhere? > > pp > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:34 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Well.... the insert is where the rudder horn rivet's to the rudder...soooo I assume it's purpose in life is to add strength to that section of the rudder. But I was wondering if the extra strength was in it's length or thickness. Guess I better order a new piece... bummer more waiting oh well.. Not going to have the painted steel parts back for week anyway. Did you all let the epoxy primer cure for 7 days like Jim has suggested ? pp ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > Paul/All: > > Think about that piece a minute, what its purpose in life > is, then decide what to do. > > If you have anymore questions, let'em fly. > > john h > > Would any > > of you use the 2 pieces in there or order a 12" piece > > from somewhere? > > > > pp > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:25 AM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Kolb-List: painting tip --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" I looked at the photo of Craigs plane today. I remembered an old tip to make paint design more artisticly pleasing. If you outline the colours in black either with a small paint brush or 1/16 or 1/8 pinstipping tape the design will be a lot more dramatic. Check it out . Print a copy of craigs plane and then ink in an outline between each colour. A good paint scheme becomes a great paint scheme. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:56 PM PST US From: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM Subject: Kolb-List: Dual Facet fuel pumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM Jim Gerken wrote: <> Jim, and Kolbers - My vote would be install in series. My Verner (2cyl, 4-stroke, horiz opposed) came equipped with a mechanical pump, but I installed a Facet in series with it. I turn the Facet on for takeoffs & landings. The Facet will still allow fuel to pass if failed or turned off. No need for a check valve, which would only introduce more failure points. The solid-state nature of the Facet makes it simple and reliable for many (hundreds, probably thousands) of hours. Two Facets should give you plenty of redundancy. Good luck with the BMW installation! Dennis Kirby Mark-3, s/n-300 Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:18 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Well.... the insert is where the rudder horn rivet's to > the rudder...soooo I assume it's purpose in life is to > add strength to that section of the rudder. But I was > wondering if the extra strength was in it's length or > thickness. Guess I better order a new piece... bummer > more waiting oh well.. Not going to have the painted > steel parts back for week anyway. Did you all let the > epoxy primer cure for 7 days like Jim has suggested ? > > pp Paul/All: If I am not badly mistaken, you are right. There is a tremendous about of stress put on the rudder at the point the rudder horn is attached. This is caused primarily by the load of the rudder cables. During normal operation, the load is normal. However, as the stress factor is increased on the pilot, so it is on the rudder pedals, cables, horn, and leading edge of the rudder. If you installed two 6" pieces instead of one 12" piece, the inserts would not do much good when the pilot got scared and pushed the rudder pedals through the nose cone. Take care, john h PS: What size is that tube? PSS: Don't forget to put the sleeves (inserts) in the trailing edge of the horizontal and vertical stabilizer. I also added inserts in the leading edges of the horizontal and upper vertical stabilizer. One of these days I am going to put some 1/16" SS cable on them to stabilize the leading edges which do move around a bit during flight. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:06 PM PST US From: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: M3X throttle configuration --> Kolb-List message posted by: Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM Big Lar wrote: << it felt uncomfortable reaching across my stomach for the throttle, so I built a new throttle position on the left, giving me left hand for throttle, right hand for stick. Lar.>> I did the same thing on my Mark-3 Classic. During construction, I sat for many hours in the left seat of the cockpit and could not get comfortable reaching across my stomach with my left hand to grasp the throttle. Felt very awkward. Welded a small tab on the left side of the cockpit for a new throttle quadrant mount. Glad I did it! I find that my throttle hand (left) is on the throttle 90 percent of the time. Dennis Kirby N93DK New Mexico ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:48 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" I called Travis and ordered a new piece.. do not archive pp ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > Well.... the insert is where the rudder horn rivet's to > > the rudder...soooo I assume it's purpose in life is to > > add strength to that section of the rudder. But I was > > wondering if the extra strength was in it's length or > > thickness. Guess I better order a new piece... bummer > > more waiting oh well.. Not going to have the painted > > steel parts back for week anyway. Did you all let the > > epoxy primer cure for 7 days like Jim has suggested ? > > > > pp > > Paul/All: > > If I am not badly mistaken, you are right. > > There is a tremendous about of stress put on the rudder at > the point the rudder horn is attached. This is caused > primarily by the load of the rudder cables. During normal > operation, the load is normal. However, as the stress > factor is increased on the pilot, so it is on the rudder > pedals, cables, horn, and leading edge of the rudder. > > If you installed two 6" pieces instead of one 12" piece, the > inserts would not do much good when the pilot got scared and > pushed the rudder pedals through the nose cone. > > Take care, > > john h > > PS: What size is that tube? > > PSS: Don't forget to put the sleeves (inserts) in the > trailing edge of the horizontal and vertical stabilizer. I > also added inserts in the leading edges of the horizontal > and upper vertical stabilizer. One of these days I am going > to put some 1/16" SS cable on them to stabilize the leading > edges which do move around a bit during flight. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:12 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: painting tip --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck If you outline the colours in > black either with a small paint brush or 1/16 or 1/8 pinstipping tape the > design will be a lot more dramatic. Check it out . A good paint scheme > becomes a great paint scheme. Woody Woody of the North (South Canada)/All: Thanks a lot. I think you hurt Miss P'fer's feelings. She ain't got no black outline on her paint scheme. Her pilot felt that made the paint job look to busy. Shucks! john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:02 PM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: shuting down private strips --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" Thanks for the great responce to my questions in regards to neighbors complaining of our flying of our small grass strip. There were alot of good thoughts a few years ago there was a simular problem...... 20 miles from here there is a private airport on a hilside and a developer wanted to put a subdivision on one end of the airport thus causing the airport to be closed. the owner of the private strip petitioned the faa to have a buffer zone at the end of the runway, to my knowledg the faa inspected the airport and found it to be installed legaly and the subdivision is not there. in short if you were to check with your local fsdo office maybe they can give you some sugestions. also the tremonton municipal airport was closed because the city no longer wanted it and there was nothing the fbo opperator could do about it. go figure good luck boyd ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:02 PM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: Kolb-List: paterns at private strips --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" If you have a private strip you can fly whatever pattern you like. Even in the AIM the pattern we fly is a recommended pattern. Off a Golf course you guys can fly anything you wish...................... this is probably true.... but you should inform the faa of the patterns you are using so that it can be added to or updated in the airport directory. thay way if anyone were to visit they would not cause you a problem. there has also been complaints from golfers.. with that possibility it is or could be a catch 22 problem. boyd ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:47 PM PST US From: "CRAIG M NELSON" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Craig Nelson --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" Clay, thanks for the kind words---It's not just me, Milow Tim has helped also. He is the man behind the HVLP paint sprayer. We hope to get our web sight up again. the Hartwell latches will work fine. as far as the switches below the panel, first is the intercom below that is the com radio and then the transponder. IN the next row the far right switch is the avionics master it will power the gps radio transponder. and eis. each of which has a circuit barker underneath. the next switch is the strobe switch, which also has a circuit barker on the bottom row, the switch to the right of that is an aux, fuel pump which is also protected by a circuit barker. the next hole is for the master switch. I haven't decided where to pot the mag switches or the starter switch. I think I will use switches instead of keys because I don't think I'm going to do the new starter for the uls. The Rotax distributor here in the Phoenix area has shown me how to start without the slipper clutch and moor powerful starter. Turn the engine over with throttle closed and mags off for 3 seconds.poower up the mags and it fires right up no shake no rattle no roll. and no there isn't enough room for a gps that's why the new pod. The scoop is a naca air duct (copied from an Indy car) for ventilation in the hot desert. just cut a hole in the fiber glass and bonded it in. I'm going to sell cowlings just need to see the performance first. Uncle Craig MKIIIex912uls Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: Clay Stuart Subject: Kolb-List: Craig Nelson --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart" Man, I'm never going to get my plane finished after seeing Craig's work. I just ordered a joggle tool to make my fuel doors flush mounted. I hadn't thought of that before. I am planning on using Hartwell flush mount cowl latches to secure the doors instead of Craig's cam-locks. Should they be OK? Craig can you detail all the switches on the panel below your instrument pod? I plan on using the stock Mark IIIXtra pod inverted to look much like Craig's, but maybe put my GPS on a stalk mount off to my left. I don't believe that there is enough room for the GPS on the stock pod. Craig, what is the little scooped out place on your nose cone for? How did you fabricate that change? Craig, when are you going to start taking orders for engine cowlings? Thanks, Clay Stuart Building Xtra, but losing ground because of Craig's inspiring craftsmanship ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:59 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Craig Nelson --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > I think I > will use switches instead of keys because I don't think > I'm going to do the new starter for the uls. The Rotax > distributor here in the Phoenix area has shown me how to > start without the slipper clutch and moor powerful > starter. Turn the engine over with throttle closed and > mags off for 3 seconds.poower up the mags and it fires > right up no shake no rattle no roll. Uncle Craig Uncle Craig/All: I started my 912S for 600 hours with the little starter and minus the slip clutch. I knew how to start it and very seldom ever got it into the shakes. Got used to that way of starting. Updated to new starter and slip clutch recently. Cost was $651.00. Lot of money, but worth every penny of it. I'll never look back. Hit the new starter, hear a short zippp!!!!!!!!!! and the 912S is idling. The slip clutch is a great improvement over the original spring loaded dogs. Torsional vibration dampening is taken care of much better than the older system. Most engine vibrate feedback in the airframe is gone. What else can I say? There is more to it than simply start up! john h ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:09 PM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: painting tip --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" Didn't mean to hurt the little ladys feelins. On my Twinstar I did all but one wing with the tape ( ran out of tape for the last wing) The difference is very noticeable but the reason it is noticeable is not readily apparent. Perhaps you southern gents have a different perspective on art :). > > I think you hurt Miss P'fer's feelings. > > She ain't got no black outline on her paint scheme. > > Her pilot felt that made the paint job look to busy. > > Shucks! > > john h > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:37 PM PST US From: "CRAIG M NELSON" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: epoxy primer --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Petty Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" ppetty@c-gate.net Did you all let the epoxy primer cure for 7 days like Jim has suggested ? pp We primed lots of parts whale we were building the wings and control surfaces but the cowl and nose pieces we primed and waited about 15 to 20 min for them to tack up then sprayed aero-thane right over it. uncle Craig MKIIIex 912uls Arizona > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:20 PM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: insert --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon As soon as the paint was dry, I don't remember how long I worked with it. The only thing i would want to add is that do not over coat with epoxy, it could make things impossible to fit. :-) Ain't nothing more irritating than have to grind that tough paint off after you just spent a bunch of time mixing aging, and painting. do not archive Did you all > let the epoxy primer cure for 7 days like Jim has > suggested ? > > pp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John HaHauck > To: > Subject: Re: KoKolbist: insert > > > > --> KoKolbist message posted by: John HaHauck> > > > > Paul/All: > > > > Think about that piece a minute, what its purpose > in life > > is, then decide what to do. > > > > If you have anymore questions, let'em fly. > > > > john h > > > > Would any > > > of you use the 2 pieces in there or order a 12" > piece > > > from somewhere? > > > > > > pp > > > > > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other Forums. > > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/chat > > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/subscription Search Engine: hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/search > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/browse/kokolbist > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/digest/kokolbist > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/archives Specific: > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/kokolbist Report > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/trouble-report > hthttp/wwwwwamatronicsom/contribution > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________