---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/15/03: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:23 AM - doors/windows (Bob Bean) 2. 06:04 AM - Re: Vamoose Logo (woody) 3. 06:24 AM - Re: Vamoose Logo (Bob Bean) 4. 06:52 AM - bugs-b-gone (Paul Petty) 5. 07:19 AM - Re: Aircraft Noise (Richard Pike) 6. 07:23 AM - Re: bugs-b-gone (Victor Catalanotto) 7. 07:54 AM - Re: Aircraft Noise (John Hauck) 8. 07:55 AM - Re: Vamoose Logo (Larry Bourne) 9. 09:02 AM - Re: Fw: rear windows (CaptainRon) 10. 09:20 AM - Apologies (Richard Pike) 11. 09:25 AM - Re: doors/windows (CaptainRon) 12. 11:04 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (J.D. Stewart) 13. 03:29 PM - Re: Apologies (John Hauck) 14. 03:33 PM - Re: Warp Drive Props (John Hauck) 15. 03:34 PM - Re: doors/windows (possums) 16. 03:59 PM - Re: Aircraft Noise (Denny Rowe) 17. 04:01 PM - looking for U.S. (ron wehba) 18. 06:27 PM - Rotax 503 injection pump on ebay (Richard Pike) 19. 07:55 PM - Prop (bryan green) 20. 08:06 PM - Re: Prop (John Hauck) 21. 08:43 PM - Re: Prop (Bob Bean) 22. 10:21 PM - Re: doors/windows (Don Gherardini) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:35 AM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Kolb-List: doors/windows --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean Richard, Craig and all, you may want to consider the possibility of a different airflow pattern with the xtra compared to the classic. You need input from other xtra owners who have tried no-doors ops. In my case, because of my wider glass, I have very little wind coming at my upper body. The floor is a different case, anything there tends to levitate. I'll need to study airflow to cut that down a bit. -BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:10 AM PST US From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vamoose Logo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" I thought the moose looked better with the wings. :) Now that the gear and art work is done can we hope to hear about vamouse flying in the spring? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Vamoose Logo > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > On my webpage showing the Moose cartoon, and Vamoose logo, I requested help in smoothing out the logo to be printed on vinyl. George Alexander came thru for me.........again..........and made several tries at figuring out just what I wanted. (I didn't even really know for sure) I think this looks great, and will look even better on Vamoose' tail. I went up to the high desert today, to the A&P's shop, ready to raise a fuss about the long delay on my landing gear. He actually had the things all jigged up, and almost ready to start heating and bending. I dummied up, and got outa the way. Ya know, something might actually come of all this. Good deal. Take a look at the final Vamoose logo under "The Moose," at http://www.flyingpictures.homestead.com/flyingpictureshome.html. Thanks very much, George - that's a heck of a job. Grateful Lar. Do not Archive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB > www.gogittum.com > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:08 AM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vamoose Logo --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean "Vamouse"??????? You trying to get the ole desert rat's back up? -hmmm, rat, mouse............. -BB do not archive woody wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" > > I thought the moose looked better with the wings. :) >Now that the gear and art work is done can we hope to hear about vamouse >flying in the spring? > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:22 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: bugs-b-gone --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Yes guy's that product is great but I know one better. Check these out http://www.cajuncleanall.com/ these amazing cleaning cloths really work. They will remove bugs using only water. pp ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:37 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aircraft Noise --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Zig zag bolt and nut? You must be thinking about the old style Supertrapp, can't imagine anyone using that. Both my Supertrapps (current models) have their discs held in with 6 stainless allen bolts that would be a cinch to safety wire. As far as exhaust pieces going through the prop, I used to get the occasional spring chunk, but since I changed to spring loaded retaining bolts, and relocated the muffler as close as possible to the engine's axis of movement, I have had zero problems. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg2.htm However, 4 of our locals have had the curlicue expansion cone break or split (3 503's, 1 532) and they could hear it in flight when the exhaust note changed. A prompt landing before the vibrating sheet metal broke off & departed precluded prop strikes. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) At 11:10 PM 11/14/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > What difference does it make if you hang a Supertrapp onto your pusher or > > that self-disassembling collection of sheet metal that Rotax sells for an > > overpriced 2-cycle exhaust? The one is about as likely to throw stuff at > > your prop as the other...maybe more. > > > > Richard Pike > >Richard/All: > >I believe the primary difference is 10 wafers and disc >aprx'ly 3 or 4" in diameter, a zig-zag bolt and nut. Like a >small bomb when the bolt lets go. No problem in the tractor >config, but not good in the pusher config. > >You must have lots of problems with you exh system. I don't >remember anything more than springs, fender washers, and >bolts departing my 2 stroke exh and finding its way into and >through my prop. > >The Super Trap has one bolt with a z bend holding it in >place. When the bolt lets go, the whole kit and caboodle goes. > >For some reason, last time I changed the four springs that >hold the silencer on my exhaust system, I saturated the >springs with silicone seal from one end to the other. >Especially the hooks. Couple days ago a spring broke right >in the middle, but stayed in place. With all the goop I had >on it, didn't have any other choice. Silicone seal is quick >and easy compared to safety wire and does a better job for me. > >Take care, > >john h > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:00 AM PST US From: "Victor Catalanotto" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: bugs-b-gone --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Victor Catalanotto" I have been using Bubble Scrubs for years on my Bellanca Super Viking. You can get it at any Home Depot or grocery store. Just spray it on and let it sit a few seconds and they wipe right off. Also works well on removing oil. Victor Catalanotto 1972 BSV 17-30A Web Site www.bellanca.us N8281R KGPM Mansfield, TX Victor@bellanca.us Mobile 817-925-2532 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Petty Subject: Kolb-List: bugs-b-gone --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Yes guy's that product is great but I know one better. Check these out http://www.cajuncleanall.com/ these amazing cleaning cloths really work. They will remove bugs using only water. pp advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:00 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aircraft Noise --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Zig zag bolt and nut? You must be thinking about the old style Supertrapp, > can't imagine anyone using that. > As far as exhaust pieces going through the prop, I used to get the > occasional spring chunk > However, 4 of our locals have had the curlicue expansion cone break or > split (3 503's, 1 532) and they could hear it in flight when the exhaust > note changed. > Richard Pike Hi Richard/All: The above does not sound like your original post. Yes, Titan Aircraft manufactured their first exhaust systems for the 912/912S with the "zig-zag" bolt, the only hardware retaining "all" those washers and wafers. To reiterate what I said earlier. I discovered that a thorough douche of silicone seal (any kind seems to work, not necessarily high temp) will prevent broken springs and their related parts from going through the prop. Seems much easier, lighter, quicker solution than all that extra hardware and parts. Yes, if you get enough hours on the Rotax exhaust system on the two strokes, they will eventually fatigue crack, especially in the neck of the system. Added weight, in the form of additional beef up, i.e., support between the neck space, will help them last longer. Your previous post made it sound like entire exhaust systems were going through the prop. Maybe, but not too frequently. Titan came up with a good solution for their system, a nice little twin outlet can that slips over the four exhaust pipes, secured with four springs. In more than 600 hours on the 912S system, I have had two springs break. The first had nothing securing it and went through the prop. This last one was saturated with silicone seal, to include the hooks. It broke in the center of the spring, but remained in position until I replaced it during a post flight inspection. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:08 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vamoose Logo --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Yah, but 'tain't a flyin' moose. I've been almost done for 5 years now.................I should change something ?? Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "woody" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vamoose Logo > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" > > I thought the moose looked better with the wings. :) > Now that the gear and art work is done can we hope to hear about vamouse > flying in the spring? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bourne" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Vamoose Logo > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > > > On my webpage showing the Moose cartoon, and Vamoose logo, I requested > help in smoothing out the logo to be printed on vinyl. George Alexander > came thru for me.........again..........and made several tries at figuring ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:32 AM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: rear windows --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Well since everybody is saying that the wind in the back is near explosive on the glass, I figure I better do what you suggest. Build it in a way that it can all be removed, and then placed back when it gets cool. However I wonder if the slip stream is directed differently in the M3X than in the plain M3. It could make a difference. Any M3X drivers flying with the doors off?? ==================================== --- Richard Pike wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > > > I really don't think you want to fly with the rear > glass in and no doors. > Seeing how the air works on and around that rear > stuff strikes me as that > is a reeeally bad idea. > > My back windows come completely off in about 2 > minutes. > http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg3.htm > > There is an aluminum u channel the runs along the > bottom of each side window. > The side windows are attached to the top surface > window with piano hinge > along either top edge, and at the front, they tuck > behind a little Lexan > flat piece which is permanent, it is in there just > to make everything fit > right. If I pull the piano hinge pins along the top > of either side window, > they come out in about 20 seconds and I drop them > into the cargo space. Now > I have an upper surface window in place, but the > rear sides are open. This > is for flying with the full size doors on in summer. > > I also have half length doors for the really hot > days. At that point, I > want the upper rear surface Lexan window gone also. > The upper surface Lexan > is attached to the back of the windshield Lexan with > piano hinge, and at > it's narrow lower back end with piano hinge, pull > the pins, it is loose, > leave it home. Or if you want to just lay it down, > then just pull the front > pin and it lays on top of the cargo area out of the > wind. > > If you think it is worth the trouble, I can add a > detailed page to the > website detailing all the permutations. > But not tonight... > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > do not archive > > > At 04:56 PM 11/14/03 -0800, you wrote: > > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon > > > > >I am glad you brought this up. I was just eye > balling > >the rear cage wondering how to configure it. I > would > >guess a solution to the window on rear with no > doors. > >would be to mount the windows on the inside of the > >cage with some reinforcing laces of aluminum strips > >.040 at least on the outside of the glass. I can > >imagine a lot of buffeting beating on the rear with > no > >doors. > >I am also planning on flying in summer with the > doors > >off. > >============================================ > > > >--- CRAIG M NELSON wrote: > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M > NELSON" > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: CRAIG M NELSON > > > To: kolblist@matronics.com > > > Subject: rear windows > > > > > > I'm planning to put windows in the rear of my > > > MKIIIex. With the talk of windows going through > the > > > prop I wanted to know how any of you have > mounted > > > windows in an Extra or a mk III. I know the > plans > > > say not to fly with the doors off without a > window > > > behind your head warning the rear windows will > come > > > off in flight, but would you have to enclose the > > > hole cabin to fly door less? Here in the west I > want > > > the option to fly with no doors. > > > Uncle Craig MKIIIex912uls > > > Arizona > > > > > > > > > > > > Click on the > > > this > > > generous > > > _-> > > > Contributions > > > any other > > > Forums. > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >===== > >Ron > >Building M3X > >Southern Arizona > > > >__________________________________ > > > > > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:00 AM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Apologies --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Sorry - did not mean to create the wrong impression. Or as some famous somebody once mused: "What you thought you heard was not what I thought I said." The only thing more affected by Murphy's Law than airplanes is communication. Thanks John, Richard Pike At 09:53 AM 11/15/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > >Hi Richard/All: > >The above does not sound like your original post. >Your previous post made it sound like entire exhaust systems >were going through the prop. Maybe, but not too frequently. >Take care, > >john h > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:02 AM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: doors/windows --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Bob thats what I was interested in knowing. I wonder if the contour of the front/windshield (it has an airfoil shape,) essentially creates a vacuum that the air is rushing to fill. Maybe a full length strake along the cage sill would stop some of it. =================================== --- Bob Bean wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean > > > Richard, Craig and all, you may want to consider > the possibility of a > different airflow > pattern with the xtra compared to the classic. You > need input from > other xtra > owners who have tried no-doors ops. In my case, > because of my wider glass, > I have very little wind coming at my upper body. > The floor is a > different case, > anything there tends to levitate. I'll need to study > airflow to cut that > down a bit. > -BB do not archive > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:05 AM PST US From: "J.D. Stewart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive Props --> Kolb-List message posted by: "J.D. Stewart" John, that Website is for a dealer (like myself). Warp Drive itself doesn't have a Website and Darryl isn't planning on anything soon. If anyone is looking for a Warp Drive, I usually give listmembers a discount. Several on this list got their props, EIS and strobes from me over the last 6 years I've been on it. C-ya, J.D. Stewart UltraFun AirSports www.ultrafunairsports.com > > Check out Warp Drive's web site: > > http://www.warpdriveprops.com/ > > Take care, > > john h ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:52 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Apologies --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Richard/All: No apologies necessary. Email is the easiest of all forms of communication to be misunderstood, taken the wrong way, lose sleep over, and make all your hair fall out. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:20 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive Props --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > John, that Website is for a dealer (like myself). Warp > Drive itself doesn't have a Website and Darryl isn't > planning on anything soon. If anyone is looking for a > Warp Drive, I usually give listmembers a discount. > J.D. Stewart UltraFun AirSports www.ultrafunairsports.com JD/Gang: Good deal. Every little bit helps. Good thing I didn't email Darryl for the info I needed. :-) john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:57 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: doors/windows --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 09:24 AM 11/15/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon > >Bob thats what I was interested in knowing. >I wonder if the contour of the front/windshield (it >has an airfoil shape,) essentially creates a vacuum >that the air is rushing to fill. Maybe a full length >strake along the cage sill would stop some of it. re than about 25 mph wind in my face. I can fly with just a pair of sunglasses. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/possums@mindspring.com.09.27.2003/Seat2.jpg http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/possums@mindspring.com.09.27.2003/Seat2.jpg I put a plug behind the seat - made of "gatorboard" - like "foam board" only a lot stronger - with some graphics on it from Kinkos. It keeps the wind from blowing through the back of the plane when I fly with the windshield off. It also makes a bubble in front of it - I suppose because the air can't go straight back. It splits just in front of my head. I don't think I ever get more than about 25 mph wind in my face. I can fly with just a pair of sunglasses. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:07 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aircraft Noise --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > For some reason, last time I changed the four springs that > hold the silencer on my exhaust system, I saturated the > springs with silicone seal from one end to the other. > Especially the hooks. Couple days ago a spring broke right > in the middle, but stayed in place. With all the goop I had > on it, didn't have any other choice. Silicone seal is quick > and easy compared to safety wire and does a better job for me. > > Take care, > > john h > John, I agree, Silicone is a must on the exhaust springs, I also like to run a loop of safety wire through the springs before the silicone to tie the whole works together kind of like re-bar or sheep wire in concrete. 2SI even provides little holes in each of the spring rings on the exhaust knuckles to put the wire through, makes a real clean job of it. Dennis Rowe, PA do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:41 PM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Kolb-List: looking for U.S. --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" anyone around the austin tx. area have a ultrastar? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:26 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Kolb-List: Rotax 503 injection pump on ebay --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Seems like I remember someone on the list wanting an oil injection pump for a 503 - Check out ebay - search "Rotax" So, high bid is $25, includes the pull starter it mounts on Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:06 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Kolb-List: Prop --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" > John, that Website is for a dealer (like myself). Warp > Drive itself doesn't have a Website and Darryl isn't > planning on anything soon. If anyone is looking for a > Warp Drive, I usually give listmembers a discount. This is why I will buy an IVO. Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 377 BRS ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:33 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Prop --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck >>Drive itself doesn't have a Website and Darryl isn't >>planning on anything soon. If anyone is looking for a >>Warp Drive, I usually give listmembers a discount. > > This is why I will buy an IVO. > Bryan Green Elgin SC Bryan/Gang: Do I understand you to say you will buy an IVO because Warp Drive does not have a web site? john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:12 PM PST US From: Bob Bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Prop --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean That website http://www.warpdriveprops.com does appear to be sponsored by Hoverhawk but is extremely informative. I too have dealt with Daryll and found him very straightforward and agreeable. -BB do not archive bryan green wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" > > > John, that Website is for a dealer (like myself). Warp > > >>Drive itself doesn't have a Website and Darryl isn't >>planning on anything soon. If anyone is looking for a >>Warp Drive, I usually give listmembers a discount. >> >> >This is why I will buy an IVO. >Bryan Green Elgin SC >Firestar I 377 BRS > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:40 PM PST US From: "Don Gherardini" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: doors/windows --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" Possums, I'll tell ya what, that bird a yours looks like the most comfortable sittin single seat Kolb There is! I sure like the extra widt Don Gherardini- FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm