Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (ron wehba)
2. 06:04 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (ULDAD@aol.com)
3. 07:41 AM - 2SI bows out (John Hauck)
4. 08:46 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (Cavuontop@aol.com)
5. 09:13 AM - horz.stab. (Paul Petty)
6. 09:14 AM - Reliability (John Hauck)
7. 09:33 AM - Engine Choices (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
8. 10:05 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (Aaron Hollingsworth)
9. 10:09 AM - Firestar gross wt (SR3SA2L1@aol.com)
10. 10:10 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (Aaron Hollingsworth)
11. 10:11 AM - 912 Convert (John Hauck)
12. 10:15 AM - Re: horz.stab. (John Hauck)
13. 10:30 AM - Re: Engine Choices (John Hauck)
14. 10:42 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (Olenik Aviation)
15. 10:58 AM - Re: 2SI bows out (CaptainRon)
16. 11:17 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (CaptainRon)
17. 11:43 AM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (Christopher J Armstrong)
18. 12:03 PM - Re: 912 Convert (Richard Pike)
19. 12:15 PM - Re: Engine Choices (k dempsey)
20. 12:33 PM - Lawyers (Paul Petty)
21. 12:35 PM - ps... (Paul Petty)
22. 12:44 PM - Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system (Jon Croke)
23. 12:46 PM - tail wire (Paul Petty)
24. 12:57 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (Kirk Smith)
25. 01:20 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (Denny Rowe)
26. 01:44 PM - Firestar gross wt. (bryan green)
27. 02:07 PM - leave em alone (Charlie & Meredith Blackwell)
28. 02:30 PM - Re: leave em alone (SR3SA2L1@aol.com)
29. 02:35 PM - Re: tail wire (John Hauck)
30. 02:37 PM - Re: tail wire (woody)
31. 03:32 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (John Hauck)
32. 03:37 PM - 2 SI (Kirk Smith)
33. 03:50 PM - Re: Lawyers (stephen e. spence)
34. 04:14 PM - Re: 800x6 Tires on Azusa rims (WILLIAM D BRADSHAW)
35. 04:14 PM - Re: tail wire (James, Ken)
36. 04:38 PM - Re: Reliability (Jack & Louise Hart)
37. 04:59 PM - testie (bryan green)
38. 05:04 PM - Re: Reliability (John Hauck)
39. 06:26 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (Don Gherardini)
40. 06:29 PM - Show and Tell (John Hauck)
41. 06:41 PM - Re: Show and Tell (Paul Petty)
42. 06:48 PM - Re: Show and Tell (John Hauck)
43. 06:52 PM - Re: testie (woody)
44. 06:56 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (Aaron Hollingsworth)
45. 07:05 PM - Re: tail wire (woody)
46. 07:14 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (Aaron Hollingsworth)
47. 07:15 PM - Re: Lawyers (Dennis Souder)
48. 08:11 PM - Re: Lawyers (Aaron Hollingsworth)
49. 08:29 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (Denny Rowe)
50. 08:34 PM - Re: Lawyers (Denny Rowe)
51. 08:42 PM - Re: testie (Denny Rowe)
52. 08:45 PM - Re: leave em alone (CaptainRon)
53. 08:48 PM - Re: testie (Bob N.)
54. 08:56 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (CaptainRon)
55. 09:17 PM - Re: 2SI bows out (CaptainRon)
56. 09:38 PM - Re:Rotax 912 prices (owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
I think his lawyer owns it now as he could not pay him!!!, but call the new
minimax design owners,and you just may be surprised if you ask about buying
a bike!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron@gamespeak.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron Hollingsworth"
<aaron@gamespeak.com>
>
> I read about 2si... yet another reason added to many that I hate our legal
> system. :/ I've heard some pretty good opinions of 2si motors. It is a
> shame. It reminds me of the guy that build and flew a Team airbike into a
> swamp in florida.. no training. Hurt himself and now owns the airbike
> design. Real shame.
>
> aaron
>
> -
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> >
> >
> > > I guess what I'm suggesting is do what makes you comfortable. You
can't
> > > cover every angle so as to make flying completely safe. You risk death
> > just
> > > getting out of bed in the morning.
> > >
> > > Rick Neilsen
> > > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
> >
> >
> > Rick and others,
> > Thought your line here was a good intro for this post.
> > I have been holding this news for a couple weeks until I was sure it had
> > been released to the press.
> >
> > South Carolina based Two Stroke International, the maker of my 690L and
> the
> > only American company manufacturing light aircraft 2 cycle engines has
> > decided to withdraw from the aviation market. The chief reason is
because
> of
> > a lawsuit filed by a builder and pilot of a homebuilt aircraft who was
> > paralyzed when his engine allegedly quit and he failed to fly the
> airplane.
> > Now because of one mans refusal to accept responsibility for the risks
> > involved in his chosen recreation, no one will be able to purchase new
> > American made 2SI engines.
> > Another chapter in the exportation of American industry brought to you
by
> > the upstanding trial lawyers of our once greater country.
> > All of us must understand that nobody has ever put a gun to our heads
and
> > forced us to build these contraptions, nor has the manufacturer of any
> > engine forced us to install their engine. We do all this of our own
> volition
> > and as such should assume all the risks that go along with this sport.
> > If you are unwilling to accept the fact that you or one of your
passengers
> > may someday receive horrible bodily harm or worse due to the operation
of
> > your little aircraft or other vehicles, and if you can't accept the fact
> > that you are the single reason this harm may come to you, PLEASE sell
your
> > aircraft, car, motorcycle, boat, etc right now and never look back.
> > The rest of us need you out of this sport before we wind up having only
> one
> > $20,000 Chinese built choice when it comes time to buy a new engine for
> our
> > airplanes.
> >
> > Sincerly,
> > Dennis Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR, Leechburg, PA
> > Do definitly archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: ULDAD@aol.com
Nothing to do with Kolbs, but since it's open season on lawyers (and yes I do
have close relatives who are attorneys. Not all lawyers are bad.)
Bill Griffin
do not archive
Did you hear that the Post Office just recalled their latest stamps?
They had pictures of lawyers on them ... and people couldn't figure out which
side to spit on.
How does an attorney sleep?
First he lies on one side, then he lies on the other.
How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb?
How many can you afford?
What do you call 25 skydiving lawyers?
Skeet.
What do you call a lawyer gone bad?
Senator.
What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50?
Your Honor.
What do you throw to a drowning lawyer?
His partners.
What does a lawyer use for birth-control?
His personality.
What happens when you cross a pig with a lawyer?
Nothing. There are some things even a pig won't do.
What's the difference between a lawyer and a vulture?
The lawyer gets frequent flyer miles.
What's the difference between God and a lawyer?
God doesn't think he's a lawyer.
Why does California have the most lawyers in the country and New
Jersey have the most toxic waste sites?
New Jersey got first choice.
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I agree with your commentary. Its ridiculous, now the
> choices left are to buy Rotax stuff at inflated
> prices.
Ron/All:
Ever price an American or Japanese outboard motor, two or
four cycle? The few choices we have, the prices are out of
sight, but they are proven products. They are reliable,
especially the four strokes. The two stroke outboards went
through a lot of "piston seizure" and "crank failure"
problems a few years back. The outboard industry seems to
have gotten those problems straightened out. Even though
there are four or five brand names out there, the
competition does not keep down the prices.
I can't speak for the Rotax two stroke engines, but the
912/912S engines are reliable, efficient, light weight, and
expensive. But so are Lycoming and Continental expensive.
Rotax parts are also very expensive, but they don't use many
parts. When is the last time you bought/priced a part for
your Ford or Dodge?
I can talk about 912/912S engines, not only from what I have
read and seen, but what I have done. I have flown in
front of the 912/912S engines for the last 10 years and
1,741 hours. I have gotten nothing but good, reliable
service from both engines. I have seen the TBO go from 600,
to 1000, to 1200, and now 1500 hours. Routine maintenance
consist of oil, oil filter, air filter, and spark plug
changes. I have never had to add oil to a 912/912S between
normal changes.
I believe the reason you don't see other engines in
quantities flying on our airplanes is because they have not
proven themselves to be as good or better than the 912/912S.
You get what you pay for. I want reliability. I want
something I can count on to get me there and back. In our
sport, we have to have an engine that we can trust and rely on.
I have had three engine outs with the 912/912S. Two were
bad fuel and the pilot was responsible for those, not the
engine. One was carb ice just prior to touch down at Toad
River, BC. That was also pilot responsibility for not
having a carb heat system. The carb ice problem has been
remedied.
I don't have any experience with Verner, but John Fletcher,
Turlock, CA, John Williamson, Arlington, TX, TNK, London,
KY, does. None of it favorable. I think John W told me
there were 5 Verner engines in the US.
I have no experience with Jabiru engines. John W seems to
have had good service out of his, but it lacks a gear box
option. This reduces the capability of the Kolb Kolbra and
MK III. Although John W had excellent cruise power, the
Jabiru lacked when it came to take off and climb.
I don't have any experience with VW engines, except in my
old VW buses and campers. We have one flying on the List
and one that has not flown. Both on MK IIIs. I'll let Rick
Nielsen defend his engine and Larry Bourne defend his, when
Larry gets it flying and gets some experience in the air
with it.
As far as comparing the reliability between two and four
stroke engines of any brand, I will let someone else speak
to that.
My thoughts, for what they are worth,
john h
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Cavuontop@aol.com
In a message dated 11/18/2003 10:56:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jlbaker@telepath.com writes:
Not gonna help. We are moving toward the Japanese style of
justice wherein if you are in a particular place/situation at a specific
time and caused some grievious harm to another, you will be held
liable because if you hadn't been there nothing would have
happened. This scenario also applies to inanimate objects....if the
2SI hadn't been there all would be well.
As for lawyers...just watch what they do to medical malpractice
insurance costs....heard malparctice premiums in the state of OK
will run up 80% next year to be followed the year after by another
80%.......
Just shoot the bastards.......(Hello carnivore!)
J.Baker
Mr. Baker:
Every once in a while I read something on this list and I just feel
compelled to respond. It might be the subtlety of your analysis, it might be your
obvious grasp of the complexity of the economic and legal issues surrounding
experimental aviation and how they are intertwined. Or maybe its your
penetrating insight into Japanese tort law.
But a little background first . . . and I'll summarize . . . I'm a
lawyer and I represented Kolb Aircraft for many years. If it wasn't for me you'd
be flying a Kitfox.
I can see that you are obviously torn up about 2SI's decision to leave
the aviation market. But have no fear, the country needs folks like you to use
your good ol' common sense to straighten things out. And the helpful and
well considered attitude you display suggests you might be just the sort of guy
your local courthouse and stand on the front steps. When you see a guy with a
tie on (could be a lawyer or a judge) tell him you have THE ANSWERS and can
solve this aviation lawsuit problem. Like this guy with the 2SI suit for
example. Its simple. Just throw the greedy bastard out on his butt. Naturally,
the
judges, who as a group are a very hard working and smart bunch of guys, will
be enormously grateful for your help. In fact, you might want to do a little
something to make yourself stand out from the early morning crowd at the
courthouse, I dunno, a big pointed hat maybe, just so they see you.
Alot of us in the aviation defense bar are getting tired. You know how
it is, endlessly watching our clients getting slapped upside the head by
greedy plaintiffs who got a hangnail or lost their self esteem because of some
alleged defect in the product. So you have come along at just the right time.
I
need a break. In fact, the Lawyer Pilots Bar Association is meeting in Tucson
this winter, maybe you'd like to give a little speech to the group. Just one
thing, we make speakers wear, uh, really, really big red shoes.
So I'm just gonna put my feet up on my desk and take it easy for a bit,
now that you have made my job so much easier, then I'll get back to work on
installing that 912 in my Mark III. Thanks again for all the help.
Mark R. Sellers
Kolb Twinstar Mark III, N496BM
Message 5
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Kolbers,
I've already made up my mind about where I'm going to locate the horz.stab. mounting
tangs in relation of height but would like to read some thread about the
difference's between the plans and what winds up on everyone's planes. John Williamson
has helped me with some issues in this area. We decided that the plans
are some what misleading as to where these "tangs" are to be located and his
quick build kit came from lite speed with the front edge of the horz. stab.
located right up even with the fuselage tube. After flying he decided that is
needed to be lowered by 5/8" (I think) to make it fly correctly. Yesterday John
sent me some photo's of Mark German's Kolbra (a masterpiece) and I noticed his
horz.stabs. were hiked up (if you will) to the top of his tube.
The factory Kolbra has the stabs. right in the center of the tube. What's up with
this? Is it a personal preference or a mishap in the plans?
John H made a good point this morning in that the factory models are built exactly
to the plans for demo reasons.
I guess I need to be more flexible in my thinking when it come's to building my
bird. This is my first airplane to build and up until Charley spent a night with
me working on the plane, I felt sorta lost trying to follow the plans to the
T. Kinda of like the FAA written exam, you have to look at your answers and
say "Does this look right?" Charley is also interested in the rudder on this
plane. He said "I've flown jets that don't have that much rudder!"
At any rate the building has been fun so far and I would recommend this kit to
any thinking of a first time project.
pp
Message 6
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Gang:
I didn't scrimp on my wings. I sure don't want to scrimp on
my power plant.
Scrimp:
VERB: To be severely sparing in order to economize: pinch,
scrape, skimp, stint.
1 : to be stingy in providing for
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 7
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
John/All
If you have the dollars laying around and don't want or aren't comfortable
assembling you own engine package your best bet is the Rotax 912 series for
a Kolb. The VW engine can be purchased new with top of the line parts
starting with long block for around $3,300.00. Then add additional
components and you can have a complete redrive VW engine package for around
$5,000.00. If you build your own engines you can do it for less. If you
install fuel injection or other options it will cost more. The engine can be
built to weigh app. 15 more than a 912 or as we have seen 50 lbs more if you
aren't careful. The engine is a big slow turning engine that is easy to live
with. It produces app the same thrust as a 912 and can be tuned to produce
more that a 912s if desired. The reliability issue with direct drive engines
is now fairly good and yet to be proven with redrive engines. The
reliability may be reduced in higher powered options. Due to the old design
VWs do require more frequent oil changes and may leak some oil. I also don't
see the TBO going beyond 1000 hours but rebuild cost is a fraction of the
912 cost.
There are a number of other people out there that are building Kolb's with
VWs that we haven't hear from. At least one is building a gear reduction
drive for the VW. There is another that is building a MKIIIX with a updated
Larry Bourne style reduction drive. The motivation is it a good engine at a
great price.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
> I don't have any experience with VW engines, except in my
> old VW buses and campers. We have one flying on the List
> and one that has not flown. Both on MK IIIs. I'll let Rick
> Nielsen defend his engine
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron@gamespeak.com>
I had to shake this email three times to get enough sarcasm off to finish
reading it. I am not entirely sure what is attempted to be said here? That
our legal system is great the way it is? That 2si motors were shiat to begin
with? That lawyers work hard for their money? I have a lawyer to thank for
owning a kolb instead of a kitfox?
Confused....
aaron
-
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cavuontop@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system
> Mr. Baker:
>
> Every once in a while I read something on this list and I just feel
> compelled to respond. It might be the subtlety of your analysis, it might
be your
> obvious grasp of the complexity of the economic and legal issues
surrounding
> experimental aviation and how they are intertwined. Or maybe its your
> penetrating insight into Japanese tort law.
>
> But a little background first . . . and I'll summarize . . . I'm a
> lawyer and I represented Kolb Aircraft for many years. If it wasn't for
me you'd
> be flying a Kitfox.
>
> I can see that you are obviously torn up about 2SI's decision to
leave
> the aviation market. But have no fear, the country needs folks like you
to use
> your good ol' common sense to straighten things out. And the helpful and
> well considered attitude you display suggests you might be just the sort
of guy
> your local courthouse and stand on the front steps. When you see a guy
with a
> tie on (could be a lawyer or a judge) tell him you have THE ANSWERS and
can
> solve this aviation lawsuit problem. Like this guy with the 2SI suit for
> example. Its simple. Just throw the greedy bastard out on his butt.
Naturally, the
> judges, who as a group are a very hard working and smart bunch of guys,
will
> be enormously grateful for your help. In fact, you might want to do a
little
> something to make yourself stand out from the early morning crowd at the
> courthouse, I dunno, a big pointed hat maybe, just so they see you.
>
> Alot of us in the aviation defense bar are getting tired. You know
how
> it is, endlessly watching our clients getting slapped upside the head by
> greedy plaintiffs who got a hangnail or lost their self esteem because of
some
> alleged defect in the product. So you have come along at just the right
time. I
> need a break. In fact, the Lawyer Pilots Bar Association is meeting in
Tucson
> this winter, maybe you'd like to give a little speech to the group. Just
one
> thing, we make speakers wear, uh, really, really big red shoes.
>
> So I'm just gonna put my feet up on my desk and take it easy for a
bit,
> now that you have made my job so much easier, then I'll get back to work
on
> installing that 912 in my Mark III. Thanks again for all the help.
>
> Mark R. Sellers
> Kolb Twinstar Mark III, N496BM
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Firestar gross wt |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: SR3SA2L1@aol.com
Hi,
I am curious about what all the Firestar (original, single seat unit, five
rib wing) pilots are flying at, relative to gross weight. I have to decide if
its time to give up on the Firestar and get something stronger or if I am being
overly concerned.
I would appreciate it if any of you who are also flying this particular model
would send me (off list) your total hours and what you have been flying at
(gross weight) and if you have heard of any wing or other failures.
Thanks,
Steve
do not archieve
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron@gamespeak.com>
I got it..... This all means lawyers have a Big Red Shoe Fettish! Its like a
get out of a lawsuit free card... just wear big read shoes and all your
lawsuits fall away.
aaron
--
' Good use of Do Not Archive'
-
----- Original Message -----
> J.Baker
> Mr. Baker:
>
> Every once in a while I read something on this list and I just feel
> compelled to respond. It might be the subtlety of your analysis, it might
be your
> obvious grasp of the complexity of the economic and legal issues
surrounding
> experimental aviation and how they are intertwined. Or maybe its your
> penetrating insight into Japanese tort law.
>
> But a little background first . . . and I'll summarize . . . I'm a
> lawyer and I represented Kolb Aircraft for many years. If it wasn't for
me you'd
> be flying a Kitfox.
>
> I can see that you are obviously torn up about 2SI's decision to
leave
> the aviation market. But have no fear, the country needs folks like you
to use
> your good ol' common sense to straighten things out. And the helpful and
> well considered attitude you display suggests you might be just the sort
of guy
> your local courthouse and stand on the front steps. When you see a guy
with a
> tie on (could be a lawyer or a judge) tell him you have THE ANSWERS and
can
> solve this aviation lawsuit problem. Like this guy with the 2SI suit for
> example. Its simple. Just throw the greedy bastard out on his butt.
Naturally, the
> judges, who as a group are a very hard working and smart bunch of guys,
will
> be enormously grateful for your help. In fact, you might want to do a
little
> something to make yourself stand out from the early morning crowd at the
> courthouse, I dunno, a big pointed hat maybe, just so they see you.
>
> Alot of us in the aviation defense bar are getting tired. You know
how
> it is, endlessly watching our clients getting slapped upside the head by
> greedy plaintiffs who got a hangnail or lost their self esteem because of
some
> alleged defect in the product. So you have come along at just the right
time. I
> need a break. In fact, the Lawyer Pilots Bar Association is meeting in
Tucson
> this winter, maybe you'd like to give a little speech to the group. Just
one
> thing, we make speakers wear, uh, really, really big red shoes.
>
> So I'm just gonna put my feet up on my desk and take it easy for a
bit,
> now that you have made my job so much easier, then I'll get back to work
on
> installing that 912 in my Mark III. Thanks again for all the help.
>
> Mark R. Sellers
> Kolb Twinstar Mark III, N496BM
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> So I'm just gonna put my feet up on my desk and take it
> easy for a bit, now that you have made my job so much
> easier, then I'll get back to work on installing that 912
> in my Mark III. Thanks again for all the help.
>
> Mark R. Sellers Kolb Twinstar Mark III, N496BM
Mark/All:
Good to hear from you after a prolonged absence from the
Kolb List.
Congratulations on your decision to join the 912 boys. :-)
I do not think you will regret your choice.
Strange thing happens when one converts from a 582 to a 912
on the MK III. The entire character of the MK III changes
to are really snug, firm, secure feeling.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Charley is also interested in the rudder on this
> plane. He said "I've flown jets that don't have that much
> rudder!"
> pp
Paul/All:
Tell Charlie the Kolbra is not a jet.
There are situations when what you have is not nearly
enough, but sane people should not be trying to fly in those
kinds of cross winds.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choices |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> If you have the dollars laying around and don't want or
> aren't comfortable assembling you own engine package your
> best bet is the Rotax 912 series for a Kolb.
> Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Rick/Gang:
VW's on Kolbs have a long way to go to prove their
effectiveness and reliability, compared to the 912/912S
series engines.
Value? Yes, if I could put a Ford 351W on the MK III, I
would have a cheap, reliable, powerful, heavy engine. I
paid $2,500.00 for a brand new 351W marine engine a couple
years ago.
In time VWs may prove their value and reliability. At the
present they have not demonstrated it on Kolb aircraft.
They just have not accumulated enough flight time to say
they are anywhere nearly as reliable as the 912/912S engines.
There is nothing like going out to fly, hitting the starter,
knowing I will most likely complete this flight without
redesigning or overhauling something on the engine.
Folks that are VW and auto conversion purist love what they
do. Figuring out how to make an auto engine work on an
aircraft is a game with them. I am just a little bit
different. I want to go fly with the least amount of
problems. It may cost more, but it is worth it, to me, for
the secure, comfortable feeling of flying with something
that has been proven reliable. Thanks to a lot of user
testing hours, that's us, Rotax has come up with a great
power plant.
Take care,
john h
Message 14
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| Subject: | 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" <olenik-aviation@buyitsellitfixit.com>
Why do you think the Rotax price is so inflated? Hmmm!!! Could it be that
they are constantly defending law suits originating in the United States? I
remember when you could buy a Rotax UL engine for under $1000..... and they
probably had a better profit margin on them at that price also.
Tom Olenik
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of CaptainRon
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
I agree with your commentary. Its ridiculous, now the
choices left are to buy Rotax stuff at inflated
prices.
I can understand why Simonini will only work through
their Canadian dealer. I don't blame them.
do not archive
========================================
--- Denny Rowe <rowedl@highstream.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe"
> <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>
> > I guess what I'm suggesting is do what makes you
> comfortable. You can't
> > cover every angle so as to make flying completely
> safe. You risk death
> just
> > getting out of bed in the morning.
> >
> > Rick Neilsen
> > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
>
> Rick and others,
> Thought your line here was a good intro for this
> post.
> I have been holding this news for a couple weeks
> until I was sure it had
> been released to the press.
>
> South Carolina based Two Stroke International, the
> maker of my 690L and the
> only American company manufacturing light aircraft 2
> cycle engines has
> decided to withdraw from the aviation market. The
> chief reason is because of
> a lawsuit filed by a builder and pilot of a
> homebuilt aircraft who was
> paralyzed when his engine allegedly quit and he
> failed to fly the airplane.
> Now because of one mans refusal to accept
> responsibility for the risks
> involved in his chosen recreation, no one will be
> able to purchase new
> American made 2SI engines.
> Another chapter in the exportation of American
> industry brought to you by
> the upstanding trial lawyers of our once greater
> country.
> All of us must understand that nobody has ever put a
> gun to our heads and
> forced us to build these contraptions, nor has the
> manufacturer of any
> engine forced us to install their engine. We do all
> this of our own volition
> and as such should assume all the risks that go
> along with this sport.
> If you are unwilling to accept the fact that you or
> one of your passengers
> may someday receive horrible bodily harm or worse
> due to the operation of
> your little aircraft or other vehicles, and if you
> can't accept the fact
> that you are the single reason this harm may come to
> you, PLEASE sell your
> aircraft, car, motorcycle, boat, etc right now and
> never look back.
> The rest of us need you out of this sport before we
> wind up having only one
> $20,000 Chinese built choice when it comes time to
> buy a new engine for our
> airplanes.
>
> Sincerly,
> Dennis Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR, Leechburg, PA
> Do definitly archive
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
As much as I may dislike Rotax and their near
monopoly. I will not dissuade anyone from buying one
on the merits that you just stated. I just don't like
as a matter of instinct price gouging. Whether its
Lycoming, Continental, Jabiru, or Rotax. We know that
those engines are priced as high as they are because
people will pay those prices. 2SI had imo a good
product which essentially kept the two stroke prices
down. Their marketing sucked, which explained their
dismal market share. With them gone I am betting that
Rotax will float their 2-stroke prices up by about
$300-$500 within the next 14 months as whatever supply
of 2si was out there gets used up.
Was I at near 0 MSL I would already have had a 2si
motor sitting waiting to be installed on my M3X.
However 70hp at D.A of around 7800-9000 in the warmer
season knocked them out of contention.
In many ways Kolb can capitalize on this situation and
gain some market share by modifying the cage on the
M3x, Kolbra etc. to be able to accept a Conti-O200.
Those are out there at 5K or less, and I am willing to
compare reliability with a Rotax of your choice
anytime. Maintenance / overhaul on those engines is
simple. Anyone that builds a Kolb can OH an O-200. If
weight is an issue then replace the mags with elec
ign, and some other stuff, and you saved 30+ pounds.
Yet TnKolb is doing nothing about that.
Anyway that how I see it.
================================
--- John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck
> <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > I agree with your commentary. Its ridiculous, now
> the
> > choices left are to buy Rotax stuff at inflated
> > prices.
>
> Ron/All:
>
> Ever price an American or Japanese outboard motor,
> two or
> four cycle? The few choices we have, the prices are
> out of
> sight, but they are proven products. They are
> reliable,
> especially the four strokes. The two stroke
> outboards went
> through a lot of "piston seizure" and "crank
> failure"
> problems a few years back. The outboard industry
> seems to
> have gotten those problems straightened out. Even
> though
> there are four or five brand names out there, the
> competition does not keep down the prices.
>
> I can't speak for the Rotax two stroke engines, but
> the
> 912/912S engines are reliable, efficient, light
> weight, and
> expensive. But so are Lycoming and Continental
> expensive.
> Rotax parts are also very expensive, but they don't
> use many
> parts. When is the last time you bought/priced a
> part for
> your Ford or Dodge?
>
> I can talk about 912/912S engines, not only from
> what I have
> read and seen, but what I have done. I have flown
> in
> front of the 912/912S engines for the last 10 years
> and
> 1,741 hours. I have gotten nothing but good,
> reliable
> service from both engines. I have seen the TBO go
> from 600,
> to 1000, to 1200, and now 1500 hours. Routine
> maintenance
> consist of oil, oil filter, air filter, and spark
> plug
> changes. I have never had to add oil to a 912/912S
> between
> normal changes.
>
> I believe the reason you don't see other engines in
> quantities flying on our airplanes is because they
> have not
> proven themselves to be as good or better than the
> 912/912S.
>
> You get what you pay for. I want reliability. I
> want
> something I can count on to get me there and back.
> In our
> sport, we have to have an engine that we can trust
> and rely on.
>
> I have had three engine outs with the 912/912S. Two
> were
> bad fuel and the pilot was responsible for those,
> not the
> engine. One was carb ice just prior to touch down
> at Toad
> River, BC. That was also pilot responsibility for
> not
> having a carb heat system. The carb ice problem has
> been
> remedied.
>
> I don't have any experience with Verner, but John
> Fletcher,
> Turlock, CA, John Williamson, Arlington, TX, TNK,
> London,
> KY, does. None of it favorable. I think John W
> told me
> there were 5 Verner engines in the US.
>
> I have no experience with Jabiru engines. John W
> seems to
> have had good service out of his, but it lacks a
> gear box
> option. This reduces the capability of the Kolb
> Kolbra and
> MK III. Although John W had excellent cruise power,
> the
> Jabiru lacked when it came to take off and climb.
>
> I don't have any experience with VW engines, except
> in my
> old VW buses and campers. We have one flying on the
> List
> and one that has not flown. Both on MK IIIs. I'll
> let Rick
> Nielsen defend his engine and Larry Bourne defend
> his, when
> Larry gets it flying and gets some experience in the
> air
> with it.
>
> As far as comparing the reliability between two and
> four
> stroke engines of any brand, I will let someone else
> speak
> to that.
>
> My thoughts, for what they are worth,
>
> john h
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Nice to see some humor about the subject and today.
:-)
But lets keep the contentious at Yahoo Groups. I would
hate to see this list go the way of so many others.
do not archive
============================================
--- Aaron Hollingsworth <aaron@gamespeak.com> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron
> Hollingsworth" <aaron@gamespeak.com>
>
> I had to shake this email three times to get enough
> sarcasm off to finish
> reading it. I am not entirely sure what is attempted
> to be said here? That
> our legal system is great the way it is? That 2si
> motors were shiat to begin
> with? That lawyers work hard for their money? I have
> a lawyer to thank for
> owning a kolb instead of a kitfox?
>
> Confused....
>
> aaron
> -
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher J Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Mark,
Here is my problem with decisions like these. When 2SI sold one engine
to one individual they probably made Under $2000. IF the engine fails
to perform up to its specifications then a plaintiff should be able to
recover some amount of money or repairs. But the failure of the engine
does not cause an aircraft to be damaged in a crash. The damage is
caused by pilots who made decisions and manipulated controls and
voluntarily took risks and the combination of those actions and the
risks results in damage. No amount of engineering, design or voodoo by
2SI or Rotax or Lycoming or GAEC ( God's Aircraft Engine Company) can
possibly prevent all engine stoppages or make pilots fly such that an
engine stoppage does not result in a damaged aircraft or injury to the
pilot or PAX. Because it is not possible to fulfill this admirable goal
the courts should not be able to hold the aircraft manufacture
responsible to it.
If the court shows that the Engine manufacture did not do what a normal
reasonable person would do to make their engines work as well as they
can then you have shown liability and are due some money. Maybe even
$50,000 (above actual damages). Punitive damages are supposed to make
companies use reasonable effort to make safe reliable products. They
are not to put companies out of business. And they should not be
awarded every time a product fails, cause all products have a failure
rate, even if the manufacture made an honest mistake that is part of the
failure rate. But if they knowingly made a mistake and did not try to
fix it then you have found liability.
The courts right now only have to show that it was possible that the
engine could have caused a crash and millions are awarded for $2000
profit product failure. The standard of what is considered liable, and
the award levels are utterly ridiculous.
I know of several engine and airplane designs that have performance that
is so amazing that it would literally change the world. Anybody want a
50 hp engine that weighs 50 pounds burning under 3 gallons per hour!
How about a near vtol single seater that can cruise at 150 mph and
takeoff and land in under 50 feet. You wont see them developed or sold
because the risks are not just too high, but almost completely
unbeatable. They will loose everything they have if they go into an
aviation related business, So they wont. And that is the real cost of
these rulings.
A very sad Topher
---
Message 18
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
I know a stranger thing than that:
I got that snug, firm, secure feeling -and incredibly more- when got I
converted from hippie heathen to trusting my Jewish Carpenter Boss for
salvation 30 years ago.
Compared to that, any conversion on my MKIII is trivial.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 12:11 PM 11/19/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
><snip>
>Strange thing happens when one converts from a 582 to a 912
>on the MK III. The entire character of the MK III changes
>to are really snug, firm, secure feeling.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
do not archive
Message 19
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "k dempsey" <kdempsey@nyc.rr.com>
Anybody know of a subaru powered mk 3 -
I suppose a mk 2 would not be strong enough ..
Cant find much in the archives - - this - -
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=10742372?KEYS
=subaru?LISTNAME=Kolb?HITNUMBER=60?SERIAL=1203034683?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
Can Anybody point me in the right direction?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard &
Martha Neilsen
Subject: Kolb-List: Engine Choices
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
--> <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
John/All
If you have the dollars laying around and don't want or aren't
comfortable assembling you own engine package your best bet is the Rotax
912 series for a Kolb. The VW engine can be purchased new with top of
the line parts starting with long block for around $3,300.00. Then add
additional components and you can have a complete redrive VW engine
package for around $5,000.00. If you build your own engines you can do
it for less. If you install fuel injection or other options it will cost
more. The engine can be built to weigh app. 15 more than a 912 or as we
have seen 50 lbs more if you aren't careful. The engine is a big slow
turning engine that is easy to live with. It produces app the same
thrust as a 912 and can be tuned to produce more that a 912s if desired.
The reliability issue with direct drive engines is now fairly good and
yet to be proven with redrive engines. The reliability may be reduced in
higher powered options. Due to the old design VWs do require more
frequent oil changes and may leak some oil. I also don't see the TBO
going beyond 1000 hours but rebuild cost is a fraction of the 912 cost.
There are a number of other people out there that are building Kolb's
with VWs that we haven't hear from. At least one is building a gear
reduction drive for the VW. There is another that is building a MKIIIX
with a updated Larry Bourne style reduction drive. The motivation is it
a good engine at a great price.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
> I don't have any experience with VW engines, except in my
> old VW buses and campers. We have one flying on the List
> and one that has not flown. Both on MK IIIs. I'll let Rick Nielsen
> defend his engine
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Interesting topic today. Was going to stay out of it but have to vent on this a
bit. I live in a rural county in Mississippi. There is a lawyer in this county
that has won some of the biggest law suites in the country. 20 million from
GM for a faulty power steering pump. 17 million for a faulty trailer hitch. I
don't have a problem with lawyers. I do have a problem with overkill. This abuse
cost me in the way of higher insurance premiums. And companies like GM just
roll the cost of these lawsuits right back into the cost of their products. It
also results in no growth in this area because no company is going to select
this area with it's reputation. So no jobs here for my kids.
I'm through now.
pp
do not archive
Message 21
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Lets get back to Kolb aircraft. I went home and worked on mine during my lunch
break! drilled the holes that I didn't get to drill last night. Just couldn't
wait to see that stab in place. Really starting to look like an airplane!!!
pp
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out, another victom of our legal system |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> The courts right now only have to show that it was possible that the
> engine could have caused a crash and millions are awarded for $2000
> profit product failure. The standard of what is considered liable, and
> the award levels are utterly ridiculous.
>
I wonder what the EAA is doing to address this issue.... with their MILLIONS
of $$$ we give in dues and pay at Oshkosh... hope they are considering using
their lobby voice and power to rectify this situation..
I can only wonder how a small manufacturer trying to market a Light Sport
Aircraft for Sport Pilot is going to address this nasty trap of
liability.....!?
For every lawyer a plaintiff uses to file a suit, there needs to be another
lawyer for the defendent trying to protect himself (maybe two). The
lawyering business can only benefit from this stuff -- no matter what side
you are on! Perpetual motion, almost! Yuk.
Message 23
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Anyone have any tips for tail wire bracing? Going to have a stab at that tonight!
pp
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
----- > However 70hp at D.A of around 7800-9000 in the warmer
> season knocked them out of contention.
Ron,
Might want to look into the MZ engine.
http://www.compactradialengines.com/
Do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
SMTPD_IN_RCVD
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Gang,
I am sorry I even started this thread, but here goes anyhow.
We all know the Rotax 912 is the greatest, we also know it is the most
expensive.
Don't let my aircrafts light weight full you, I did not scimp on my wings or
anything else. I did however shop hard for bargains to keep the price of my
Kolb at a ridiculously low figure. Last time I checked that wasn't a crime.
(Sorry if that was a little uncivil.)
I did pay 1/5th the price of a 912S for my 2SI. Yes I know it is only a
lowly 2 cycle and I fly it as you should fly any single engine aircraft,
even a 912 powered one.
Maybe after I put more time on it I will wish I had not bought it.
Than again maybe its crank will go the full 1000hrs and the top ends will go
500 hrs between overhauls and it will have been a great investment. We shall
see.
So far so good, it has only been 36hrs because of this states crappy weather
so I have a long way to go.
I do operate this aircraft as a recreational vehicle much like a go cart or
my dirt bike. Even though it is N-numbered I consider it an Ultralight as
its speed is the same. I do not feel the need to install a $12000, 170
pound engine in an ultralight. To each his own, lets try not to look down
our noses at folks with differant powerplants than ours, it gets kind of
agrivating and after all, we are all brothers in Kolbdom.
I do lament the lack of choices in engines because of the tort situation.
Maybe if we had fewer lawyers in politics? :-I
I remember the old Kolbs video used to say that the Mk-3 could be landed in
very small places should the need arise, was this not a referance to the
nature of the engines they were putting in Mk-3s at the time. (2 cycles)
People who choose 2 cycles for their ultralights are not wrong, they have
simply made a choice.
Someday if the right deal presents itself at the right time, I will install
an 80 hp 912 in my bird, its pure economics.
When I build a Sonex, it will have a 3300 Jabiru, as that type of aircraft
is not suited to 2 cycle powerplants, Kolbs however are.
Nuf said
Maybe we could just move on, please
Dennis Rowe "Satisfied Kolb owner"
Mk-3 N616DR, PA, 2SI 690L-70, Powerfin, 485 pounds empty, (flies like a
quick ultralight)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Firestar gross wt. |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I am curious about what all the Firestar (original, single seat unit, five
rib wing) pilots are flying at, relative to gross weight.
Me to so this weekend I am going to weight mine before stripping the cage to recover
will post the results. Do not archive.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I (19LBG) 377 BRS
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie & Meredith Blackwell <wozani@optonline.net>
Okay guys,
Call me a lawyer sympathizer if you want, but your blame is misplaced. Some
person brought the lawsuit, the guy hurt or his family, not the trial lawyers.
Blame him.
For malpractice prices, blame the insurance companies losing money on investments
and trying to squeeze it out of doctors, not on malpractice claims being
any higher or more prevalent than they ever were.
Have you ever had a doctor do something wrong to you? I have, and it cost
me my health and a pain free life. All doctors I visited told me that something
horrible had been done, but none would testify against the bad doctor. After
all, they had to see this guy around the conventions and in neighboring hospitals.
It took an out of state doctor to testify in the case. Nurses will cover
it up, other doctors will cover it up, everyone will cover it up. If only
5% of the doctors are responsible for 85% of the malpractice suits, why aren't
they kicked out of the profession?
And when you can never work again, is $1 million enough to make up for it?
How about when it is only 10 years salary and you would have another 30 years
left to retirement?
No, it is the greed of insurance companies that lost money on the stock market
and found through good advertising and a few key political donations to the
self serving and greedy politicians that they can save money on payouts to make
up for the loss, that my anger is placed. It is for the doctors that stick
together worse than crooked cops that my anger is aimed.
Don't practice medicine if you don't want to be a good doctor. Don't build
engines or advertise anything you can't back up if you can't afford a lawsuit.
The consumer and the patient needs some protection in this country. They deserve
the chance to be made whole again in a legal sense if a wrong was truly
done to them. And if 2si really was doing good business here, with a superior
product that sold well, then it is to their shame that they folded up and left
without fighting the case in the courts.
America might have become a great power by crapping on the average guy, by
abusing its worker's health and safety, through slavery and near slavery in its
past. But that should not be the america I live in and love today. This country
is better than that, it is a lot better than that.
P.S. If you want an american owned good small engine company, then buy more Bombardier
stock and own the damn thing.
Charlie Blackwell, NJ
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Really, do not archive this non-Kolb thread
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: leave em alone |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: SR3SA2L1@aol.com
Just a footnote, more malpractice suits are filed against lawyers than
doctors.
do not archieve
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Anyone have any tips for tail wire bracing? Going to have
> a stab at that tonight!
>
> pp
Paul/All:
Yep. I played with tail wire bracing from day one, 1984.
Was constantly replacing as wires and hardware changed. By
the time I got to the MK III I was, in one case, wore all
the way through a thimble or two.
I fixed that the last go around. I went to a turnbuckle on
each wire, made up tangs from 4130, used some cable barrels
(they look like little pulley wheels). I cost more the
first time around, but after that they start paying for
themselves by virtue of their much longer life.
If you all will buy me a real nice digital camera I will
take pics and post on my index page. hehehe Gonna get one
one of these days. Would be real handy to help me answer
questions about stuff I have done to my airplane.
Take care,
john h
Message 30
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
> Anyone have any tips for tail wire bracing? Going to have a stab at that
tonight!
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
If you install a clevis ( or shackle) on each of the 2 bottom wires and
permanently bolt the lower cable tangs to the tail post you will have an
easier, tighter and faster way of setting up your tail.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Denny/Gang:
My first reaction when I read this was, Wow! This kid is a
little testy today. I don't need it. Especially after just
getting home from a beautiful 40 mile dirt bike ride on
single and double track trails. The woods were beautiful.
Saw some turkeys. Not all of them are on this List, hehehe,
and enjoyed the peace and quiet, except for the deep,
throaty thump of the ole Suzuki 4 stroke, single cylinder,
thumper. Darn, another 4 stroke. No sweat. I used to ride
two strokes 35 years ago and I have done my share of two
stroke flying: Cuyuna 485 hrs, 447 Rotax 785 hrs, 582 Rotax
216 hrs. That's time from engines in my airplanes. That
doesn't count the other two stroke time in factory Kolbs, etc.
> I am sorry I even started this thread, but here goes
> anyhow. We all know the Rotax 912 is the greatest, we
> also know it is the most expensive. Don't let my
> aircrafts light weight full you, I did not scimp on my
> wings or anything else. I did however shop hard for
> bargains to keep the price of my Kolb at a ridiculously
> low figure. Last time I checked that wasn't a crime.
Denny, if you will reread my posts, you will find that I was
addressing them towards folks that buy 4 strokes, not two
strokes.
> (Sorry if that was a little uncivil.) I did pay 1/5th the
> price of a 912S for my 2SI.
You must have paid about $2,000 for your two stroke.
Yes I know it is only a lowly
> 2 cycle and I fly it as you should fly any single engine
> aircraft, even a 912 powered one.
Why are you shooting down your two stroke? I didn't.
> I do not feel the need to
> install a $12000, 170 pound engine in an ultralight. To
> each his own, lets try not to look down our noses at
> folks with differant powerplants than ours, it gets kind
> of agrivating and after all, we are all brothers in
> Kolbdom.
Denny, you are way off base. I think you need to reread and
reconsider some of the things you are saying. I don't look
down my nose at anybody or anything. Your post is a little
aggravating, Brother Kolber.
> I remember the old Kolbs video
> used to say that the Mk-3 could be landed in very small
> places should the need arise, was this not a referance to
> the nature of the engines they were putting in Mk-3s at
> the time. (2 cycles)
The above works no matter what kind of power plant is
installed on the Kolb. I don't know if Kolb was referencing
the nature of the engines or not.
People who choose 2 cycles for their
> ultralights are not wrong, they have simply made a
> choice.
Didn't say or infer that they were. If you can safely fly
with a rubber band powered MK III, more power to you.
Someday if the right deal presents itself at the
> right time, I will install an 80 hp 912 in my bird, its
> pure economics.
Good! You will wonder why you waited so long. :-)
> When I build a Sonex, it will have a 3300
> Jabiru, as that type of aircraft is not suited to 2 cycle
> powerplants, Kolbs however are. Nuf said
Keep the Jabiru dry. I have seen evidence of a Jabiru that
would not start after spending the night in the cool, damp,
dewy atmosphere of Wallace, NC. They use two distributor
caps that will get condensation inside and short out the
ignition system. The little Buick V6 in my OMC 155 hp
outdrive would do the same thing at times.
Kolbs are suited for both two and four stroke engines.
> Maybe we could just move on, please
> Dennis Rowe "Satisfied Kolb owner" Mk-3 N616DR, PA, 2SI
> 690L-70, Powerfin, 485 pounds empty, (flies like a quick
> ultralight)
Now you can move on. I have answered your post. This one
was too tuff for me to ignore.
BTW: My MK III flies like an ultralight also. In fact, I
have been able to get into and out of confined areas that
most ultralights would not touch. The beauty of flaps and
Homer Kolb's wings that do not need modifying.
Take care,
john h
PS: Miss P'fer has been powered with 582 for 216 hours, 912
for 1,135, and the 912S for 606.1. She flies much the same
with all three.
PSS: Again, Denny, I was talking to and about 4 strokes and
4 stroke folks. Was not commenting or comparing 2 and 4
strokes. OK? :-)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 32
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
Isn't this about the third time that company has went under? Cuyuna, AMW??? and
2SI. Maybe Home Depot will buy them out next and they can rise again. Those
in the carpentry business seem to have a knack for that........;o) Back to
my fox hole.......Snuf
Do not archive
Message 33
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
Paul:
I sense that it would be a waste of time pointing out the enormous
contribution lawyers, judges and our legal system has made to improving the
quality of our lives in area such as health & safety, employment and civil
rights. I do think all should realize that the relatively rare verdicts
that would be described as outrageous were rendered by a jury. Juries are
made up of just ordinary people. If you must blame large awards on anyone,
blame the average "Joe" who sat on the jury. Perhaps if juries were made up
of serious conscientious citizens interested in doing justice, rather than
those that chose not to shirk their civic duty or those that simply had
nothing better to do. When we get a jury summons in the mail, we all should
take a moment to think about what kind of person/juror we would want on our
case.
Steve Spence FF 013
building Mk3X
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Lawyers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Interesting topic today. Was going to stay out of it but have to vent on
this a bit. I live in a rural county in Mississippi. There is a lawyer in
this county that has won some of the biggest law suites in the country. 20
million from GM for a faulty power steering pump. 17 million for a faulty
trailer hitch. I don't have a problem with lawyers. I do have a problem with
overkill. This abuse cost me in the way of higher insurance premiums. And
companies like GM just roll the cost of these lawsuits right back into the
cost of their products. It also results in no growth in this area because no
company is going to select this area with it's reputation. So no jobs here
for my kids.
>
> I'm through now.
>
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 800x6 Tires on Azusa rims |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WILLIAM D BRADSHAW <PIPERJ5@shtc.net>
>
> Time: 08:16:54 PM PST US
> From: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 800x6 Tires on Azusa rims
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson"
<kolbrapilot@comcast.net>
>
> Danny and all,
>
> ***the valve stem pulled out.
> Found out the 800x6 tube valve stem is offset about 3/4 inch
> to the outboard side. The Azusa valve stem holes are in the
> center.
> ***
>
> The same thing happened to my tires when they were 6 months old. I had the
> same solution but I also used masking tape to make a dam and then filled
the
> old hole half's with J-B Weld and sanded smooth. You can barely see where
> the original holes were and nothing gets to the exposed inner tube.
Good idea John, I'll fill my holes in with JB weld also. Good stuff.
Thanks
Danny
Message 35
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "James, Ken" <KDJames@berkscareer.com>
Since I'm about to cut wire for my tail could you send some picks!
Thanks Ken
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: woody [mailto:duesouth@govital.net]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: tail wire
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
> Anyone have any tips for tail wire bracing? Going to have a stab at that
tonight!
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
If you install a clevis ( or shackle) on each of the 2 bottom wires and
permanently bolt the lower cable tangs to the tail post you will have an
easier, tighter and faster way of setting up your tail.
Message 36
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
At 11:14 AM 11/19/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>Gang:
>
>I didn't scrimp on my wings. I sure don't want to scrimp on
>my power plant.
>
>Scrimp:
>
> VERB: To be severely sparing in order to economize: pinch,
>scrape, skimp, stint.
>
>1 : to be stingy in providing for
>
>john h
>
John,
For those of us who do not use Rotax 912, and who have not bulked up the wing,
the implication is that we have scrimped on building our aircraft. I do not know
if Homer designed the Mark III with the intention of the Rotax 912 being used,
but if he did it seems to me to be a bit excessive.
Excessive:
ADJECTIVE: exceeding the usual, proper or normal
This is what happens when one overpowers a design intended for a smaller and lighter
engine. The HP, fuel consumption, overall weight, stall, takeoff and landing
speeds, parasitic and induced drag, and pilot skill requirements all go
up. Since the engine is larger, the natural inclination is power the aircraft
at higher thrust levels than before. This increases all stress levels and encourages
little things to go wrong or to crack and break the may not be the case
at lower thrust levels. So changing to a four stroke engine for increased
engine reliability does not necessarily imply increased aircraft reliability.
Power pulse amplitude will be higher for the four stroke engine of the same hp
as a two stoke engine. But since the two stroke engine develops its hp at higher
rpm the power pulse amplitude will be much less. So the two stroke engine
will be much kinder to the air frame than a four stroke.
Unfortunately, many of us, with other Kolb designed aircraft, cannot follow your
advice and become "912 boys". In my case, Part 103 constraints make it impossible.
That is why it is so important for manufacturers to continue to design,
develop and sell reliable 30 to 40 hp two cycle engines.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Do not archive
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 37
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Is it just me or does it seem like everyone in a little thin skinned and stressed
lately. Do not archive
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
Message 38
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> For those of us who do not use Rotax 912, and who have
> not bulked up the wing, the implication is that we have
> scrimped on building our aircraft. I do not know if
> Homer designed the Mark III with the intention of the
> Rotax 912 being used, but if he did it seems to me to be
> a bit excessive.
> Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO
Jack/All:
I was addressing four stroke folks, Jack.
Was not talking to the two strokers.
Sorry if I confused everyone with my posts.
Spend too much time on this thing anyhow.
I get the impression a lot of people read exactly what they
want to read in a message, rather than the whole darn thing.
They have made up their minds before they finish reading
the entire post and understanding what the writer has
written, and to who.
I'll try to be a little more concise in the future.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
HIya Gang...
Thought I would pass this comment along.
I spoke with **** at 2SI this morning. Called him to discuss his decision,
and here is his reasoning in a nutshell.
"The last time we defended ourselves against a lawsuit like this, it cost me
100 grand, and it never got to court. My lawyer's assure me we can beat this
one also....but the cost will likely be more."
"attempting to amoritize these expenses to the exsisting aircraft engine
sales as there is no assurance that it will be the last lawsuit, is a futile
decision" .
Rotax has insulated themselves from these Lawsuits by their
Canada-Austria-Camen islands-Canada trail of distribution, But 2SI
cannot....their plant is in this country.
THIS is the crux of the problem men..its not a level playing field for a
manufacturer in this country. Even here, and American Honda, we have
discovered that as long as you have no assets in the united states, you dont
need to worry about a lawsuit, as even if you are Filed on, you dont have to
pay the awards. BUT if you maintain any assets here..(as we do)..then you
must.
The ONLY method to hold leverage on an importer who has no assets in this
country is to BAN the importation of his goods, and the courts cannot do
this, only congress has this authority.
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
800-626-7326
Message 40
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Hi Gang:
The mail man came riding up this morning on the Titus Post
Office Mail Mule. Handed me a big brown envelope that I
could not identify. Opened it up and found some pictures I
had loaned a local newspaper photographer to use in an
article about the 2001 flight to Barrow. Only had them two
years. Glad he sent them back. Brought back some fond
memories.
This is what Point Barrow, Alaska, looks like from the
north. Point Barrow is nothing more than a sand and gravel
spit and sand bar that sticks out into the Arctic Ocean.
The little white chunks of white stuff in the water are ice.
This picture was taken 14 July 2001, 14 days after I
departed Gantt IAP, Alabama. This was my turn around point
because there was no place else to go. I was also shooting
for this point in 1994, but came up 205 miles short back then:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Point%20Barrow.jpg
An abandoned farm complex somewhere in North Dakota on the
flight north:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/N%20Dakota.jpg
Somewhere between Bettles and Anaktuvuk Pass, Alaska. This
is in the south side of the Brooks Range north of the Arctic
Circle:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/S%20Side%20Brooks%20Range.jpg
Approach to Anaktuvuk Pass, Alaska. That's the North Slope
on the north side of the pass. This pass is about 65 miles
west of the Dalton Highway (Pipeline Haul Road) and Atigun
Pass. Anaktuvuk is Inupiat Indian for "place where caribou
crap":
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Anaktuvuk%20Pass,%20Alaska.jpg
That's me at the airport at Anaktuvuk with my Kolb Mark III
t-shirt on. It was unusually warm for the Arctic. I was
enjoying the warm weather:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Anaktuvuk%20Pass%20Alaska.jpg
Galbraith Lake Airport, Alaska, on the Pipeline Haul Road,
north side of the Brooks Range, approximately 125 miles
south of Dead Horse/Prudhoe Bay, Alaska:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Galbraith%20Lake%20Alaska.jp
That's me and Miss P'fer at Smithers, BC, airport. This was
a neat place to spend the night:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Smithers,%20BC.jpg
Smithers, BC. It doesn't get much better than this:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Smithers%20BC.jpg
Somewhere along the route of flight to Barrow and back:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Somewhere%20between%20Alabama%20and%20Alaska.jpg
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Show and Tell |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
hey john care to hop in tha kolb chat room? im pissed at my plans
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Show and Tell
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Hi Gang:
>
> The mail man came riding up this morning on the Titus Post
> Office Mail Mule. Handed me a big brown envelope that I
> could not identify. Opened it up and found some pictures I
> had loaned a local newspaper photographer to use in an
> article about the 2001 flight to Barrow. Only had them two
> years. Glad he sent them back. Brought back some fond
> memories.
>
> This is what Point Barrow, Alaska, looks like from the
> north. Point Barrow is nothing more than a sand and gravel
> spit and sand bar that sticks out into the Arctic Ocean.
> The little white chunks of white stuff in the water are ice.
> This picture was taken 14 July 2001, 14 days after I
> departed Gantt IAP, Alabama. This was my turn around point
> because there was no place else to go. I was also shooting
> for this point in 1994, but came up 205 miles short back then:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Point%20Barrow.jpg
>
> An abandoned farm complex somewhere in North Dakota on the
> flight north:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/N%20Dakota.jpg
>
> Somewhere between Bettles and Anaktuvuk Pass, Alaska. This
> is in the south side of the Brooks Range north of the Arctic
> Circle:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/S%20Side%20Brooks%20Range.jpg
>
> Approach to Anaktuvuk Pass, Alaska. That's the North Slope
> on the north side of the pass. This pass is about 65 miles
> west of the Dalton Highway (Pipeline Haul Road) and Atigun
> Pass. Anaktuvuk is Inupiat Indian for "place where caribou
> crap":
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Anaktuvuk%20Pass,%20Alaska.jpg
>
>
> That's me at the airport at Anaktuvuk with my Kolb Mark III
> t-shirt on. It was unusually warm for the Arctic. I was
> enjoying the warm weather:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Anaktuvuk%20Pass%20Alaska.jpg
>
>
> Galbraith Lake Airport, Alaska, on the Pipeline Haul Road,
> north side of the Brooks Range, approximately 125 miles
> south of Dead Horse/Prudhoe Bay, Alaska:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Galbraith%20Lake%20Alaska.jp
>
> That's me and Miss P'fer at Smithers, BC, airport. This was
> a neat place to spend the night:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Smithers,%20BC.jpg
>
> Smithers, BC. It doesn't get much better than this:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Smithers%20BC.jpg
>
> Somewhere along the route of flight to Barrow and back:
>
>
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Somewhere%20between%20Alabama%20and%20Al
aska.jpg
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Show and Tell |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Galbraith Lake Airport, Alaska, on the Pipeline Haul Road,
> north side of the Brooks Range, approximately 125 miles
> south of Dead Horse/Prudhoe Bay, Alaska:
>
> http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Galbraith%20Lake%20Alaska.jp
The last g got dropped on this url. Should be:
http://home.sw.rr.com/jhauck/Alaska/Galbraith%20Lake%20Alaska.jpg
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 43
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
> Is it just me or does it seem like everyone in a little thin skinned and
stressed lately. Do not archive
> Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
HEY! YOU TALKIN AT ME???? ;)
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron@gamespeak.com>
Ron,
I'm curious where you are located with high DA? The 618 is only a little
over 70HP and seems to do very well at high DA. gross+ load I see
300-500fpm, and solo my mk3 is a real climber, seeing 1100-1200fpm. Average
temp here is 35F at 6800', so our DAs on most days I am flying (~50F) are
7500+. I'm sure I will need to either fly solo or light passenger on hot
days, but I'm not sure the extra 7 HP of a 4 stroke would be enough to
change that fact; especially when considering the extra weight. If I
remember correctly, you loose ~2.5% HP performance for every 1k' of DA. so a
7500k DA would be loosing ~20% performance. Our hot 90F days will see DA
over 10k.
I know I have heard of people having issues with the rave values in 618s,
but if you take care of it and be sure to cycle the value at cruise I have
heard people love it. I don't have enough hours in my 618 to really comment
on long-term reliability, but the previous owner has 180hrs trouble free and
the engine still runs great. I would guess that the 618 made a tempting buy
when they were still made. 7HP less than a 912 that cost almost double.
I know that 2 cycle engines do not have the best rep.... but out of 10-15
planes that flew out of the old ultralight field in Camarillo I think they
all ran rotax 2 cycles. I only heard of one engine out and if you saw it you
would wonder how it even started... I think the plane and engine had been
tied down outside for a couple years without being cleaned or maintained.
aaron
new mk3 owner
> Was I at near 0 MSL I would already have had a 2si
> motor sitting waiting to be installed on my M3X.
> However 70hp at D.A of around 7800-9000 in the warmer
Message 45
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
I dug through my files and did not find any pics. I will try to get out
tomorrow and take some pics. Perhaps I could describe it a bit better.
First take the tangs meant for the bottom wires, bend them to same angle
as you would normally and then bolt them onto the bottom of the tail post.
The upper wires are done as per instructions. Buy 2 shackles, its the thing
that looks like a small horse shoe with a removable pin going throiugh it.
Install them on the bottom tangs. Now install the cable as per instructions.
When it is finished just pull the pin on the shackle and your wire will come
right off. A little weight on the tail surface ( I usually rest my foot on
it as a I lay on the ground) gives enough slop in the cable for easy
removal. When installed correctly you will have very snug wires as compared
to most Kolbs. I did not use shackles for mine . I used an extra 2 cable
tangs on each wire to fit around the permanently mounted bottom tangs. Same
idea but I had extra tangs and no extra shackles. Let me know if you need
more help.
> Since I'm about to cut wire for my tail could you send some picks!
>
> Thanks Ken
> do not archive
>
> If you install a clevis ( or shackle) on each of the 2 bottom wires
and
> permanently bolt the lower cable tangs to the tail post you will have an
> easier, tighter and faster way of setting up your tail.
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron@gamespeak.com>
Thanks for sharing this info.... I feel for them. I went through a lawsuit
and learned the hard way. Civil suits are not about who is right or wrong,
but who has the most money and attorneys to fight. I was sued a couple years
ago over intellectual property by an ex-employer. I hired an attorney
thinking that I was clearly in the right; spent about 20 grand before
realizing it was irrelevant unless I could fund the 200k or more to follow
through to trial. Even if I could have funded the case, I would have most
likely lost both my attorney fees and the case due to my budget being so
much smaller. I took my lumps as 2SI is doing now. My ex-employer now owns
rights to a couple products they did not develop, along with a nice monthly
payment from me for 8 more years. The system sucks for the small guys.....
no other way to put it.
It is a good thing the joy of flight can take ones mind off of such things.
The weather has been fantastic around here. I think I need to go flying in
the morning.
aaron
do not archive
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI bows out
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> HIya Gang...
>
> Thought I would pass this comment along.
> I spoke with **** at 2SI this morning. Called him to discuss his decision,
> and here is his reasoning in a nutshell.
>
> "The last time we defended ourselves against a lawsuit like this, it cost
me
> 100 grand, and it never got to court. My lawyer's assure me we can beat
this
> one also....but the cost will likely be more."
>
> "attempting to amoritize these expenses to the exsisting aircraft engine
> sales as there is no assurance that it will be the last lawsuit, is a
futile
> decision" .
>
>
> Rotax has insulated themselves from these Lawsuits by their
> Canada-Austria-Camen islands-Canada trail of distribution, But 2SI
> cannot....their plant is in this country.
>
>
> THIS is the crux of the problem men..its not a level playing field for a
> manufacturer in this country. Even here, and American Honda, we have
> discovered that as long as you have no assets in the united states, you
dont
> need to worry about a lawsuit, as even if you are Filed on, you dont have
to
> pay the awards. BUT if you maintain any assets here..(as we do)..then you
> must.
> The ONLY method to hold leverage on an importer who has no assets in this
> country is to BAN the importation of his goods, and the courts cannot do
> this, only congress has this authority.
>
>
> Don Gherardini
> Sales / Engineering dept.
> American Honda Engines
> Power Equipment Company
> 800-626-7326
>
>
Message 47
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
"Large awards" are only one aspect of the legal problems in the US. But
there is a big problem with even lesser suits. You don't need to have your
head cut-off in a major suit to die. You can be bled to death with lots of
little "nicks" from "frivolous" law suits. Frivolous suits are not
frivolous - they can cause serious financial strain on a company, esp. to a
small company like 2si. Perhaps "frivolous" should be defined: This is a
suit where litigation is started with no intention of going to court; rather
the intent it to wear down the defendant with a constant hemorrhaging of
legal fees ... to the point he will "softened-up" enough to consider an
out-of-court settlement - which is the real goal. The PI attorney knows he
would not have much chance, if any, of winning in court; but this is beside
the point as he is focused on the out-of-court settlement.
The hapless defendant is between a rock and a hard place. He knows he could
probably win in court, but he would have to spend $100,000 (and way on up
from there) to have his day in court. And even then he still could loose...
juries can be pretty unpredictable. So when a figure is floated, say
$10,000 to settle out of court and have the problem go away ... forever - it
starts looking pretty attractive.
2si may well not have the resources to pursue a rigorous defense; it would
be pure presumption to suggest what they should or should not do. Very
probably they are not able to do what they would really like to do.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lawyers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
>
> Paul:
>
> I sense that it would be a waste of time pointing out the enormous
> contribution lawyers, judges and our legal system has made to improving
the
> quality of our lives in area such as health & safety, employment and civil
> rights. I do think all should realize that the relatively rare verdicts
> that would be described as outrageous were rendered by a jury. Juries are
> made up of just ordinary people. If you must blame large awards on
anyone,
> blame the average "Joe" who sat on the jury. Perhaps if juries were made
up
> of serious conscientious citizens interested in doing justice, rather than
> those that chose not to shirk their civic duty or those that simply had
> nothing better to do. When we get a jury summons in the mail, we all
should
> take a moment to think about what kind of person/juror we would want on
our
> case.
>
> Steve Spence FF 013
> building Mk3X
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Lawyers
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> >
> > Interesting topic today. Was going to stay out of it but have to vent on
> this a bit. I live in a rural county in Mississippi. There is a lawyer in
> this county that has won some of the biggest law suites in the country. 20
> million from GM for a faulty power steering pump. 17 million for a faulty
> trailer hitch. I don't have a problem with lawyers. I do have a problem
with
> overkill. This abuse cost me in the way of higher insurance premiums. And
> companies like GM just roll the cost of these lawsuits right back into the
> cost of their products. It also results in no growth in this area because
no
> company is going to select this area with it's reputation. So no jobs here
> for my kids.
> >
> > I'm through now.
> >
> >
> > pp
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 48
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron@gamespeak.com>
Nicely put. As kids we are all taught that our country has a fair and just
legal system; that everyone will get a fair day in court. I hate to say it,
but unless you land yourself in a criminal court, our legal system is far
from just and you had might as well stop holding your breath for your fair
day in court. After landing myself in the civil court sandbox, I often
wished I had broken my foe's legs... at least then I would get a free
attorney. The real winners in our system are the attorneys. Win or loose
they get paid and paid well.
I love my Kolb <had to try and tie this back to Kolb somehow>
aaron
do not archive
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lawyers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
>
> "Large awards" are only one aspect of the legal problems in the US. But
> there is a big problem with even lesser suits. You don't need to have your
> head cut-off in a major suit to die. You can be bled to death with lots
of
> little "nicks" from "frivolous" law suits. Frivolous suits are not
> frivolous - they can cause serious financial strain on a company, esp. to
a
> small company like 2si. Perhaps "frivolous" should be defined: This is a
> suit where litigation is started with no intention of going to court;
rather
> the intent it to wear down the defendant with a constant hemorrhaging of
> legal fees ... to the point he will "softened-up" enough to consider an
> out-of-court settlement - which is the real goal. The PI attorney knows
he
> would not have much chance, if any, of winning in court; but this is
beside
> the point as he is focused on the out-of-court settlement.
>
> The hapless defendant is between a rock and a hard place. He knows he
could
> probably win in court, but he would have to spend $100,000 (and way on up
> from there) to have his day in court. And even then he still could
loose...
> juries can be pretty unpredictable. So when a figure is floated, say
> $10,000 to settle out of court and have the problem go away ... forever -
it
> starts looking pretty attractive.
>
> 2si may well not have the resources to pursue a rigorous defense; it would
> be pure presumption to suggest what they should or should not do. Very
> probably they are not able to do what they would really like to do.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lawyers
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
> >
> > Paul:
> >
> > I sense that it would be a waste of time pointing out the enormous
> > contribution lawyers, judges and our legal system has made to improving
> the
> > quality of our lives in area such as health & safety, employment and
civil
> > rights. I do think all should realize that the relatively rare verdicts
> > that would be described as outrageous were rendered by a jury. Juries
are
> > made up of just ordinary people. If you must blame large awards on
> anyone,
> > blame the average "Joe" who sat on the jury. Perhaps if juries were
made
> up
> > of serious conscientious citizens interested in doing justice, rather
than
> > those that chose not to shirk their civic duty or those that simply had
> > nothing better to do. When we get a jury summons in the mail, we all
> should
> > take a moment to think about what kind of person/juror we would want on
> our
> > case.
> >
> > Steve Spence FF 013
> > building Mk3X
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> > To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Lawyers
> >
> >
> > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> > >
> > > Interesting topic today. Was going to stay out of it but have to vent
on
> > this a bit. I live in a rural county in Mississippi. There is a lawyer
in
> > this county that has won some of the biggest law suites in the country.
20
> > million from GM for a faulty power steering pump. 17 million for a
faulty
> > trailer hitch. I don't have a problem with lawyers. I do have a problem
> with
> > overkill. This abuse cost me in the way of higher insurance premiums.
And
> > companies like GM just roll the cost of these lawsuits right back into
the
> > cost of their products. It also results in no growth in this area
because
> no
> > company is going to select this area with it's reputation. So no jobs
here
> > for my kids.
> > >
> > > I'm through now.
> > >
> > >
> > > pp
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> John H wrote:
> My first reaction when I read this was, Wow! This kid is a
> little testy today.
Sorry John, I did not mean to come across so rough, been working on the
house off and on today I guess with this rain keeping me from riding my dirt
bike or flying my Kolb I got a little over the top. Check my comments
sprinkled throughout to try and get the air cleared between us.
>
. Last time I checked that wasn't a crime.
Yeah, you are right, that comment was unneccesary. Sorry again.
>
> Denny, if you will reread my posts, you will find that I was
> addressing them towards folks that buy 4 strokes, not two
> strokes.
John, its the anything but a 912 thing that comes across in your posts,
sometimes it sounds a little heavy handed. I am totally sincere when I say
the 912 is the best overall engine for the larger Kolbs, I was not being
sarcastic at all and I hope it did not sound that way.
>
> You must have paid about $2,000 for your two stroke.
Brace yourselves, I paid $2800 for my engine with all accessories. An EAA
chapter in Charlotte decided to give up on a Roger Mann project that they
had purchased the engine for. There it was still in the box with all
paperwork and receipts. Was worth the drive down, they wanted $3000, but
agreed to my price since I was coming so far for it. Told you I was a
shopper. :-)
>
>
> Why are you shooting down your two stroke? I didn't.
Come on bud, I won't even answer this one. Grin
>
. To each his own, lets try not to look down our noses at
> > folks with differant powerplants than ours, it gets kind
Notice I corrected a couple of the mangled spellings from my original post.
> > of aggravating and after all, we are all brothers in
> > Kolbdom.
>
> Denny, you are way off base. I think you need to reread and
> reconsider some of the things you are saying. I don't look
> down my nose at anybody or anything. Your post is a little
> aggravating, Brother Kolber.
Man, Beuford sounds so much smoother than either one of us when he says
things like Brother Kolber, where has the ol bugger been lately anyhow?
John, I really enjoy your experience and input on this list, you really are
a great help to all here. I did not mean to aggravate you at all, but you do
come across very heavy handed more often than you know, I am not being thin
skinned here, if you could read some of your posts from others perspective
you would understand how you come across. It "ain't" (thats Pittsburgh for
isn't) always real pretty. But I still love ya pal. Seriously, its a
respect thing for Veterans and anyone who posts here.
>
> > I remember the old Kolbs video
> > used to say that the Mk-3 could be landed in very small
> > places should the need arise, was this not a referance to
> > the nature of the engines they were putting in Mk-3s at
> > the time. (2 cycles)
>
> The above works no matter what kind of power plant is
> installed on the Kolb. I don't know if Kolb was referencing
> the nature of the engines or not.
>
I am pretty sure they were, and us 2 cycle flyers are extra paranoid by
nature anyway, it helps cut down on natural selection. :-I
> People who choose 2 cycles for their
> > ultralights are not wrong, they have simply made a
> > choice.
>
> Didn't say or infer that they were. If you can safely fly
> with a rubber band powered MK III, more power to you.
>
No rubber bands here, no one is allowed to spend less than me on their Mk-3
engine, its a list rule. "grin"
And you do give the impression that fits with my remarks, I am not trying to
censor you, I am only trying to help you be more lister and newbee friendly.
I Don't want others getting gun shy of making posts here.
> Someday if the right deal presents itself at the
> > right time, I will install an 80 hp 912 in my bird, its
> > pure economics.
>
> Good! You will wonder why you waited so long. :-)
Actually, there is no need to wonder, it is a money thing, my family gets
first dibs. I am in no way infering that yours or anyone elses family
doesn't, I know your flock is raised and it sounds like you did a fine job.
If the Lord blesses me that I am able to continue this hobby when the little
ones are grown, I'll be doing it with a 912 if nothing better has come
along. I just keep the flying budget straps pulled real tight so it does not
extract a toll on the family.
>
> > When I build a Sonex, it will have a 3300
> > Jabiru, as that type of aircraft is not suited to 2 cycle
> > powerplants, Kolbs however are. Nuf said
>
> Keep the Jabiru dry. I have seen evidence of a Jabiru that
> would not start after spending the night in the cool, damp,
> dewy atmosphere of Wallace, NC. They use two distributor
> caps that will get condensation inside and short out the
> ignition system.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll remember that, and if John Monnett has worked
out a mount for a 912S by the time I build my Sonex, I will consider that
also for they sip a little less fuel than the 3300 Jab.
> Kolbs are suited for both two and four stroke engines.
See we agree on most things. :-)
Now you can move on. I have answered your post. This one
was too tuff for me to ignore.
Thats just how I felt about yours. And I hope we can move on together.
I also hope you will get up this way next year in your travels and we can
get the chance to fly together, and the dirt bike ride offer still stands.
>
> BTW: My MK III flies like an ultralight also. In fact, I
> have been able to get into and out of confined areas that
> most ultralights would not touch. The beauty of flaps and
> Homer Kolb's wings that do not need modifying.
That Homer knows his stuff.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
> PS: Miss P'fer has been powered with 582 for 216 hours, 912
> for 1,135, and the 912S for 606.1. She flies much the same
> with all three.
>
> PSS: Again, Denny, I was talking to and about 4 strokes and
> 4 stroke folks. Was not commenting or comparing 2 and 4
> strokes. OK? :-)
>
"Roger" John, over and out,
Dennis Rowe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 50
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
>
> Paul:
I do think all should realize that the relatively rare verdicts
> that would be described as outrageous were rendered by a jury. Juries are
> made up of just ordinary people.
>
> Steve Spence FF 013
> building Mk3X
>
Steve,
I thought the lawyers had a lot to do with the folks picked to hear major
cases, am I mistaken?
Dennis Rowe
PS: How is the Mk-3 project coming along?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 51
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
>
> Is it just me or does it seem like everyone in a little thin skinned and
stressed lately. Do not archive
> Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
>
I am sorry I set this storm off folks.
If the part time pond in front of my hanger dries up enough tomorrow I will
get a little flying in and get my imbalance balanced.
This is gonna be another long winter.
Denny Rowe PA
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: leave em alone |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
More work for them all around. Even when they loose
they win. lol
do not archive.
===================================
--- SR3SA2L1@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: SR3SA2L1@aol.com
>
> Just a footnote, more malpractice suits are filed
> against lawyers than
> doctors.
>
> do not archieve
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 53
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Denny, what d'ya expect--your ISP is Highstream! Aint never gonna dry out.
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Well i was inclined to buy the Simonini anyway. and
now it looks like a virtual certainty.
do not archive.
===============================
--- Don Gherardini <donghe@one-eleven.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini"
> <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> HIya Gang...
>
> Thought I would pass this comment along.
> I spoke with **** at 2SI this morning. Called him to
> discuss his decision,
> and here is his reasoning in a nutshell.
>
> "The last time we defended ourselves against a
> lawsuit like this, it cost me
> 100 grand, and it never got to court. My lawyer's
> assure me we can beat this
> one also....but the cost will likely be more."
>
> "attempting to amoritize these expenses to the
> exsisting aircraft engine
> sales as there is no assurance that it will be the
> last lawsuit, is a futile
> decision" .
>
>
> Rotax has insulated themselves from these Lawsuits
> by their
> Canada-Austria-Camen islands-Canada trail of
> distribution, But 2SI
> cannot....their plant is in this country.
>
>
> THIS is the crux of the problem men..its not a level
> playing field for a
> manufacturer in this country. Even here, and
> American Honda, we have
> discovered that as long as you have no assets in the
> united states, you dont
> need to worry about a lawsuit, as even if you are
> Filed on, you dont have to
> pay the awards. BUT if you maintain any assets
> here..(as we do)..then you
> must.
> The ONLY method to hold leverage on an importer who
> has no assets in this
> country is to BAN the importation of his goods, and
> the courts cannot do
> this, only congress has this authority.
>
>
> Don Gherardini
> Sales / Engineering dept.
> American Honda Engines
> Power Equipment Company
> 800-626-7326
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
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>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
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| Subject: | Re: 2SI bows out |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
I am southern Arizona (FHU) Fort Huachuca Arizona.
elev 4600 ft (on a very cold day). We loose about 3%
of hp per 1000 ft. I agree that for just regular
flying 70hp (probably around 55hp at the prop at your
alt) could be enough. I am somewhat ova mmm,,
demanding aerial adventurer. So within the limits of
my budget and the Kolb I want the most I can get. I am
planing on playing around out in the desert, landing
in all sorts of places, for hunting and just
exploring. I want lots of go juice. :-)
For more hp in a 2stroke I would suggest you look at
Hirth, and Simonini. They both have 100hp versions for
much less than the 4 strokers.
==================================================
Ron,
I'm curious where you are located with high DA? The
618 is only a
little
over 70HP and seems to do very well at high DA. gross+
load I see
300-500fpm, and solo my mk3 is a real climber, seeing
1100-1200fpm.
Average
temp here is 35F at 6800', so our DAs on most days I
am flying (~50F)
are
7500+. I'm sure I will need to either fly solo or
light passenger on
hot
days, but I'm not sure the extra 7 HP of a 4 stroke
would be enough to
change that fact; especially when considering the
extra weight. If I
remember correctly, you loose ~2.5% HP performance for
every 1k' of DA.
so a
7500k DA would be loosing ~20% performance. Our hot
90F days will see
DA
over 10k.
I know I have heard of people having issues with the
rave values in
618s,
but if you take care of it and be sure to cycle the
value at cruise I
have
heard people love it. I don't have enough hours in my
618 to really
comment
on long-term reliability, but the previous owner has
180hrs trouble
free and
the engine still runs great. I would guess that the
618 made a tempting
buy
when they were still made. 7HP less than a 912 that
cost almost double.
I know that 2 cycle engines do not have the best
rep.... but out of
10-15
planes that flew out of the old ultralight field in
Camarillo I think
they
all ran rotax 2 cycles. I only heard of one engine out
and if you saw
it you
would wonder how it even started... I think the plane
and engine had
been
tied down outside for a couple years without being
cleaned or
maintained.
aaron
new mk3 owner
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
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| Subject: | Re:Rotax 912 prices |
--> Kolb-List message posted by:
Hello list members.
I do agree that the price for a Rotax 912 is expensive in the USA.
If you would like to know what I have to couch up for a Rotax 912 UL up here
in Iceland with our high salestaxes, the price is $13.500 with shipping and
24,5% sales tax. I guess you are not doing so bad after all in your neck of
the woods?
Just my humble input. I enjoy the list info and opinions.
Best regards,
Johann G.
Iceland.
http://www.gi.is/fis
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