Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:46 AM - Re: 2Si (Airgriff2@aol.com)
2. 04:33 AM - Re: Ultra Star landing gear (Dale Sellers)
3. 04:49 AM - Re: Show and Tell (ron wehba)
4. 04:50 AM - Re: enclosure (ron wehba)
5. 05:01 AM - Re: Ultra Star landing gear (Daniel Walter)
6. 05:24 AM - Re: Ultra Star landing gear (John Hauck)
7. 05:30 AM - Re: Ultra Star landing gear (John Hauck)
8. 05:43 AM - Re: Ultra Star landing gear (John Hauck)
9. 06:18 AM - Re: trailer for Firestar (dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford))
10. 06:26 AM - Re: Ultra Star landing gear retrofit (Mid-State Sandblasting)
11. 06:34 AM - Re: 2Si (Bob Bean)
12. 06:34 AM - Re: engines, debate over which is better (Jack & Louise Hart)
13. 06:53 AM - Re: Rotax and Aircraft Engines (Olenik Aviation)
14. 06:53 AM - Re: Rotax and Aircraft Engines (Olenik Aviation)
15. 07:56 AM - Re: Rotax and Aircraft Engines (Richard Pike)
16. 07:56 AM - Re: engines, debate over which is better (Richard Pike)
17. 08:46 AM - Re: Show and Tell (Don Gherardini)
18. 09:51 AM - Re: Show and Tell (John Hauck)
19. 10:15 AM - How it all works (Cavuontop@aol.com)
20. 10:16 AM - Re: hirth (CaptainRon)
21. 11:07 AM - Re: How it all works (Bob N.)
22. 11:23 AM - Re: How it all works (Don Gherardini)
23. 11:41 AM - Re: EAA - - - How it all works (Jon Croke)
24. 11:57 AM - tha law (Paul Petty)
25. 11:58 AM - Re: How it all works (CaptainRon)
26. 01:28 PM - Re: How it all works (Ron or Mary)
27. 02:26 PM - Re: How it all works (Kirk Smith)
28. 02:41 PM - Justice (Paul Petty)
29. 02:42 PM - Re: tha law ()
30. 02:43 PM - Re: How it all works (Bob N.)
31. 02:49 PM - Really Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle)
32. 02:55 PM - Re: tha law ()
33. 02:57 PM - Re: How it all works ()
34. 03:55 PM - Re: Lawyers (stephen e. spence)
35. 04:02 PM - solo (Paul Petty)
36. 04:14 PM - Cross Country Overnight Gear (John Hauck)
37. 04:29 PM - Re: solo (dama)
38. 04:41 PM - Fairings (Terry)
39. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: EAA - - - How it all works (Bob Bean)
40. 05:42 PM - Re: How it all works (Christopher J Armstrong)
41. 06:43 PM - camping gear (bryan green)
42. 07:14 PM - Re: solo (Denny Rowe)
43. 07:33 PM - Re: Airfoil (BMWBikeCrz@aol.com)
44. 07:33 PM - cuyuna for sale (Mid-State Sandblasting)
45. 09:06 PM - Re: Show and Tell (Larry Bourne)
Message 1
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
> Robert says:
> >> Sounds to me like you
>> can still buy the engine, but it has to be for your, ahem, go-cart!
>>
>
Just was I was thinking. If 2SI is still going to manufacture engines, but
not for aircraft use, can they really dictate what you can and cannot bolt that
engine up to ?
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
"do not archive"
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ultra Star landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
I got them both at the same time.
Dale Sellers
Georgia
do not archieve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ultra Star landing gear
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Wanted, desperately, one set of original landing gear
> > legs for an Ultra Star. I wiped mine out this afternoon.
> > Can anyone help me?
> >
> > Dale Sellers Georgia do not archive
>
> Dale/All:
>
> Did you get both of them?
>
> I did that on my first Ultrastar landing, which was also my
> first fixed wing landing. Got both those little suckers.
>
> After that, when I broke a landing gear it was usually just
> one, the first one to hit the ground. When I would load up
> just one gear and slap it pretty hard on the ground, it was
> going to break. Have done go arounds with the right gear
> sticking straight out to the side like an amphibian.
>
> john h
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Show and Tell |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
john h. burn them "pics" to a cd, I would more than be willing to pop a
five or ten for it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Show and Tell
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> John; Thanks for the
> > share!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! makes me know I made the right
> > decision to go with a Kolb. the shots with tie huge
> > mountains and ominous weather----wow!!!! the picture over
> > the water sends chills up my spine!! and I really like
> > the mug shot!! Thanks again Uncle Craig MKIII912uls
>
> Thank you Craig:
>
> The little Kolb will take you almost anywhere you want to
> go, with a good engine (two or four stroke) properly
> maintained and an adventurous soul at the controls.
>
> For some of you all on the Kolb List that did not know, my
> first flight to around the US and up to Alaska was to be
> done with Miss P'fer and the 582. Unfortunately, or
> fortunately, the 582 seized at a little over 200 hours.
> That brought about everyone else wanting me to do the flight
> with the 912. Course no one had any money to help me, and I
> didn't have any either. But we found a way to do it and the
> flight was a great success, even though we missed our turn
> around point (Pt Barrow) by 205 miles. That gave me an
> opportunity to make two more attempts before I finally go it
> right and took the picture over the water north of Point
> Barrow, Alaska.
>
> Appreciate the good comments. Was getting weary with the
> other kind. :-)
>
> When I departed Anaktuvuk Pass for Galbraith Lake, about 65
> miles east on the north side of the Brooks Range, over the
> North Slope, I really got myself into some nasty weather,
> the weather you see sitting on the north east of Anaktuvuk.
> No one would believe where and in what conditions my
> little airplane has carried me over the years. Sometimes
> the hair raises on my arms when I go back and relive some of
> those adventures. Funny thing though. When a long flight
> is completed, I am ready to get up and go again in a couple
> weeks. Can not wait until 1 July 2004, for our flight back
> to Alaska.
>
> Please pardon my long post.
>
> john h
>
> PS: I have lots of pictures I would like to share, but
> sometimes time runs out before I get around to digging them
> out, scanning, and uploading to the index page. That kind
> of work for me is really time intensive. Right now, that is
> what I have the least of.
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
thanks guess i'll do just that or fly my minimax when its cold.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: enclosure
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> ron wehba wrote:
> anyone built or know of a winter
> > enclosure on a ultrastar?,,,yea its old (1985) but i love
> > it!!
>
> Ron/All:
>
> Personally, I think an enclosure would ruin what the
> Ultrastar is all about, wide open, light weight, and a super
> flying little airplane.
>
> For winter flying in my Ultrastar I bought a snowmobile
> suit, some elk skin mittens that came almost to my elbows,
> and some kind of kinky foam and nylon snow boots they were
> selling back in 1984. I also had a balaclava that covered
> everything on my head but my eyeballs, and a full face BMW
> helmet with swing up front so I could wear it with my
> glasses. Did a pretty good job of keeping me from freezing
> for a little while. On the ground I could also raise the
> front of the BMW helmet and spit my Beechnut if I forgot to
> before I got ready to fly. :-)
>
> Would have been nice to have the Chilly Vest to keep me warm
> back then. I believe the Cuyuna alternator would have had
> plenty power to operate it. That little vest does
> everything an efficient cabin heater does with out all the
> plumbing and other hardware.
>
> I have seen several attempts to enclose the Ultrastar, but
> miserable failures and ruined good birds IMHO.
>
> Want to get out of the weather, buy a Firestar. Then when
> you get older, get a Mark III, fully enclose it, and enjoy
> the comfort of not getting blasted by warm or cold air.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ultra Star landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Daniel Walter" <worrybear@paonline.com>
Dale, It is my understanding that ultrastars where all plans built and a
gear off one may not fit another, when I built mine and bent the gear, I had
to bring the fuselage home and remake and reweld the new gear to fit the
plane.
there are also drawings that will allow you to make a aparatus to use
firestar legs. If I can be of any more assistance please fell free to
contact me off list.
PS there are pictures of my Ultrastar in the pllicture post
Dan Walter
Ultrastar 10 DEW
Palmyra PA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Ultra Star landing gear
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1@bellsouth.net>
>
> HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Wanted, desperately, one set of original landing gear legs for an Ultra
Star. I wiped mine out this afternoon. Can anyone help me?
>
> Dale Sellers
> Georgia
> do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ultra Star landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Dale, It is my understanding that ultrastars where all
> plans built
> Dan Walter
Dan/All:
The early ones were Dan. In 1984, they started welding up
all the 4130 parts so folks did not have to do any welding
to build the airplane. Could have been a little earlier
though. I got mine in March 1984. Total price was $3,495.
Everything except finish paint and instruments. What an
airplane!
I never flew the Ultrastar with anything but the rigid gear.
Kept bending them, mostly the right one because of the way
I had to turn about 45 deg to right on short short final,
right before touch down. Brother Jim went to .090 4130 and
I had no more problems bending and braking them. A little
heavier, but they made the aircraft a little more survivable
to a low time untrained fixed wing pilot.
Take care,
john h
john h
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ultra Star landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I got them both at the same time.
>
> Dale Sellers Georgia
Dale/All:
Me to. During my first landing, I ended up a little long on
my confined 600 ft grass strip in the cow pasture. Touched
down at the departure end of the field, ran off the end of
the strip (no brakes), down a step incline with a cow path
at the bottom. Cows had been using this one as a major
highway and was pretty deep. When I crossed it it took out
both gear legs, bent up the nose, and got my brand new prop
with 20 mins on it. For that matter, the Ultrastar had .4
hours flight time.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ultra Star landing gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> and got my brand new prop with 20 mins on it. For that
> matter, the Ultrastar had .4 hours flight time.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
Morning All (And it is a beautiful morning at hauck's
holler, alabama):
Before the other purist can nail me, I want to correct an
obvious error. The above should have read:
"the Ultrastar had .33333333 hours flight time."
Thanks,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: trailer for Firestar |
message of Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:56:25 -0800
--> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford)
The very best in trailers that are serviceable, user friendly, easy
to tow, and fits the Kolbs we fly was a home made unit built by lister
Richard Swiderski (Hi, Richard....hope you don't mind this).
I was in the market for a trailer and needed something super light
for the mountains here in WV and saw his and HAD to have one. I copied
his by taking some measurements and made some changes in dimensions to
tailor it to the needs of my FSII.
Richard's trailer has an RV awning, skylight, windows, interor
lighting, ovrhead reinforced area for working on the plane or even
pulling the engine while inside the trailer. It has tilt-capability, a
rear door that doubles as a ramp, and the trailer even doubles as a
camper!
Obviously a lot of thought went into his. Mine is crude in
comparison, but fits my needs as a hangar and trailer. Best of all, it
can be built VERY cheaply using brand new components, and utilizes
torsion axles (tandem) for a super soft ride. A good bit of work
involved, but well worth the effort.
Mike in WV
FSII
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ultra Star landing gear retrofit |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane@rtmc.net>
Now is the time to convert the landing gear to a firestar type I have the
drawings to do this if you are interested. they were designed by Dennis
Souder back in 1993. I had this retrofit on my ultrastar that had a Subaru
engine on it. I can get them copied and send them to anybody that is
interested in them.
Randy sure miss my soobydoo
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Not really, it's your engine. About the most amazing powerplant is the
Model A
ford on the Pietenpols. Yugo conversion anyone? -BB do not archive
Airgriff2@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Airgriff2@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>>Robert says:
>>
>>
>>>>Sounds to me like you
>>>>
>>>>
>>> can still buy the engine, but it has to be for your, ahem, go-cart!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>Just was I was thinking. If 2SI is still going to manufacture engines, but
>not for aircraft use, can they really dictate what you can and cannot bolt that
>engine up to ?
>Fly Safe
>Bob Griffin
>
>"do not archive"
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: engines, debate over which is better |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
Richard,
What does it weigh?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
do not archive
At 10:32 PM 11/20/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
>
>There is currently a Rotax 906 on ebay with exactly those specs.
>Go for it.
>
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>do not archive
>
>At 03:31 PM 11/20/03 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>>
>>Jim,
>>
>
><snip>
>
>> If someone would come out with a 30 to 40 hp four cycle engine that
>> weighed dry and dressed around 75 pounds and priced around two to three
>> thousand dollars, I am sure some of them would show up on FireFlys and
>> Firestars.
>
><snip>
>
>>Jack B. Hart FF004
>>Jackson, MO
>>
>>
>>Jack & Louise Hart
>>jbhart@ldd.net
>>
>>
>
>
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart@ldd.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | Rotax and Aircraft Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" <olenik-aviation@buyitsellitfixit.com>
John,
The helicopter with the 503 powered saw was Aerial Solutions. My dad used
to supply those engines for them, but I think they are using remanufactured
engines now. They go through them pretty fast.
Tom Olenik
Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation.
Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines
Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes
http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com
Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS
Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell......
Do NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hauck
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax and Aircraft Engines
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I think that
> there are Rotax aircraft engines, and there are Rotax
> non-aircraft engines.
>
> -- Robert
Robert/All:
If I am not to badly mistaken, Rotax powers See Doo's and
Ski Doo's.
Rotax engines are also used in other utility applications.
One of them, related to me by a former Army Helicopter Pilot
at Oshkosh, was a platform mounted 503 that powered 5
circular saw blades. This "contraption" was hung on a 100
ft line from a Hughes 500 helicopter. His job was to trim
trees on power line right of ways in inaccessible areas,
such as the big swamps in Louisiana and the Rocky Mountains.
He told me they would crank the 503, set it for what ever
RPM they operated it at, let it run until he returned from
his mission. Said those rigs got knocked around quite a
bit, as one can imagine, but kept on ticking.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Rotax and Aircraft Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" <olenik-aviation@buyitsellitfixit.com>
No, it may have said that it meets no standards for safety for aircraft and
should be only used in experimental or ultralight aircraft and where an
engine failure will not compromize safety.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Laird
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax and Aircraft Engines
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
Sorry, John, you're right... my 912S Installation Manual clearly says
"Aircraft Engine" on it.
I think I simply remembered that, a couple of years ago, I ran across a
Rotax manual for a 2-stroke engine that stated 'not for use on aircraft' or
something similar. I jumped the gun and responded too quickly. I think
that there are Rotax aircraft engines, and there are Rotax non-aircraft
engines.
-- Robert
DO NOT ARCHIVE
At 11:06 PM 11/20/2003, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > I think that's there way around all the liability
> > issues... Even Rotax says their engines are not for use
> > in an aircraft.
> > -- R
>
>Robert/All:
>
>Sorry to disagree, but check this out:
>
>When only the best will do, a genuine ROTAX Aircraft Engine
>is the only option.
>
>Then go to this url and check out the page where I got it:
>
>http://www.rotec.com/
>
>While you are at it, check out this page:
>
>http://www.kodiakbs.com/index.htm
>
> From what I can tell, they make no bones about it. Rotax
>sells aircraft engines.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>
>PS: I took the liberty to change the subject line.
>
>
-------------------------
EZ Dock Texas Gulf Coast
Office Phone: 281-752-9096
Cell Phone: 713-503-2949
Fax: 425-928-3369
Web : www.EZDockTexGulf.com
EMail: robert@EZDockTexGulf.com
Personal web pages: http://www.rlaird.net http://www.texas-flyer.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Rotax and Aircraft Engines |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
If anyone wants to see what it looks like, this is a link to a picture of it.
http://www.farmshow.com/issues/260305.asp
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 09:31 AM 11/21/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation"
><olenik-aviation@buyitsellitfixit.com>
>
>John,
>
>The helicopter with the 503 powered saw was Aerial Solutions. My dad used
>to supply those engines for them, but I think they are using remanufactured
>engines now. They go through them pretty fast.
>
>Tom Olenik
>Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation.
>Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines
>Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes
>http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com
>Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS
>Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell......
>
>Do NOT ARCHIVE
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hauck
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax and Aircraft Engines
>
>
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > I think that
> > there are Rotax aircraft engines, and there are Rotax
> > non-aircraft engines.
> >
> > -- Robert
>
>Robert/All:
>
>If I am not to badly mistaken, Rotax powers See Doo's and
>Ski Doo's.
>
>Rotax engines are also used in other utility applications.
>One of them, related to me by a former Army Helicopter Pilot
>at Oshkosh, was a platform mounted 503 that powered 5
>circular saw blades. This "contraption" was hung on a 100
>ft line from a Hughes 500 helicopter. His job was to trim
>trees on power line right of ways in inaccessible areas,
>such as the big swamps in Louisiana and the Rocky Mountains.
> He told me they would crank the 503, set it for what ever
>RPM they operated it at, let it run until he returned from
>his mission. Said those rigs got knocked around quite a
>bit, as one can imagine, but kept on ticking.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: engines, debate over which is better |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Don't know. But I sent the seller an e-mail and asked him.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
At 08:25 AM 11/21/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
>
>Richard,
>
>What does it weigh?
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Jackson, MO
>
>do not archive
>
>At 10:32 PM 11/20/03 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
> >
> >There is currently a Rotax 906 on ebay with exactly those specs.
> >Go for it.
> >
> >Richard Pike
> >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> >do not archive
> >
> >At 03:31 PM 11/20/03 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >>--> Kolb-List message posted by: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart@ldd.net>
> >>
> >>Jim,
> >>
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> If someone would come out with a 30 to 40 hp four cycle engine that
> >> weighed dry and dressed around 75 pounds and priced around two to three
> >> thousand dollars, I am sure some of them would show up on FireFlys and
> >> Firestars.
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >>Jack B. Hart FF004
> >>Jackson, MO
> >>
> >>
> >>Jack & Louise Hart
> >>jbhart@ldd.net
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>Jack & Louise Hart
>jbhart@ldd.net
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Show and Tell |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
John,
I just have to tell you, that pic of Point Barrow is about the most
inspiring pic taken from a light plane I have ever seen. In fact, that
single picture is causing me to consider buying a newer and better printer!
(Sue says thanks alot!)....hehehe!
do not archive
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
800-626-7326
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Show and Tell |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> I just have to tell you, that pic of Point Barrow is about the most
> inspiring pic taken from a light plane I have ever seen. In fact, that
> single picture is causing me to consider buying a newer and better printer!
> (Sue says thanks alot!)....hehehe!
> Don Gherardini
Don/All:
I wish the picture could transmit the same feelings I was
experiencing at the time. But alas, they just do not do
that. No matter how the pictures come out, they do not live
up to the same degree as seeing it live.
Tell Sue, "Sorry about the printer."
Thank her again for a good Illinois country supper. I
thoroughly enjoyed it.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 19
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| Subject: | How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Cavuontop@aol.com
Gentlemen:
I regret the sarcastic tone of my prior contribution to the thread on
2SI. But, I confess, I become exasperated with simple minded discussions of the
very complex legal/economic issues surrounding aviation, especially when they
suggest that lawyers ought to be shot, or that its all just a scam to make
lawyers rich. I've been doing stoop labor, trying to wring a little justice out
of the sweaty fields of the law for nearly 20 years now, and frankly, I think
my view is way more sophisticated, and correct, than those who simply say,
"The country's gone sue happy!!" So if you learned your morality from Hallmark
greeting cards and your economics from Time Magazine and got your
understanding of the law from USA Today, and that's fine with you, please stop
reading
now. I wouldn't want to disturb your ignorance.
To understand why companies like 2SI or Team, or indeed Kolb, can't
always thrive in the aviation market-- and the related proposition that Topher
describes of companies not being able to bring innovative products to market--
you need to know just a little history. I'll make it short.
The history of Torts. When they started this country torts were the
legal problems that weren't criminal (you stole my cow), or contractual (you
failed to sell me the cow). They were other sorts of injuries that the courts
awarded money damages for. (You hurt my cow, now it won't give milk). These
torts had funny names like trespass de bonis asportatis, or trover, and negligence
was one them. The delivery of justice ("you are right, he is wrong") was
fairly simple and reflected the shared understandings and experiences of a
homogenous agrarian society.
Then along comes the industrial revolution, and technology makes life a
bit more complicated. Any decent farmer could look at a horse or a bushel of
grain and tell right off if it was any good; if the farmer bought the bad horse
or the lousy grain thinking it was good, then shame on him for being an
idiot. But how, for example, does one appraise that Goodyear steel belted radial
tire? It could do me alot of harm if it is bad, and I have no way to tell
whether its defective or not. Guess I just have to rely on the guy who made it.
Nevertheless, the law used the concepts of "personal responsibility"
that have been thrown around in this thread for many years. (Mill owner: "I told
the little kid running the knitting machine not to put his fingers in it, now
he's got his arm tore off. What you want me to do?") (Ship owner:
"Everybody knows working on a ship is dangerous, its his problem he couldn't swim.")
(Mine owner: "The shaft collapsed on him, so what, I didn't make him work
here.") The sturdy notion of buyer beware and a sensible reluctance to shift
the
cost of a problem to some one other than the victim kept the courts from
doing anything other than saying to the plaintiff, "Suck it up, shit happens."
Then somebody noticed that the poorhouses were filling up with the
widows and orphans of the dead sailors and miners, and there were lots of mutilated
people walking around with no job. All of this turned out to be real a drag
on the economy, quite apart from the question of whether these people were
dumb or greedy or didn't take responsibility for themselves, or should have
thought before they got their loose clothes caught in the lathe. Soon it became
apparent that the court, by refusing to shift the cost of these injuries to the
ship owner or mine operator were in fact shifting them to EVERYBODY, or more
accurately all of the rest of us, who were forced to pick up the cost of
feeding and clothing these folks, and that didn't seem quite right either.
Over time a consensus grew that the people in the best position to deal
with the cost of all of these widows and orphans and hurt people were the folks
who were mining the coal or knitting the fabric. Add a few cents per ton, or
square yard, to cover the cost of the people who got hurt while the product
was produced and everyone is happy.
SO there you have it, that is the underlying logic of the system. A sort
of secondary effect of that was the rise of the insurance business to make
that expense a little more predictable for the business owners, and even out the
cash flow problems associated with the occasional big damage award. This has
been a huge success for the country. The consumers don't notice the slightly
increased cost of the product, the victims get compensated, and we all go
home happy. This is particularly apparent in an example like the cigarette
industry where the true cost of the damage done to society has only recently become
known, and when you start factoring all the heart attacks and emphysema into
the equation the cost of a pack goes from 20 cents to $3.75.
NOW, would you like to make an intelligent criticism of the legal system
as it applies to aviation? Here it is: the logic of this system works fine
when you are churning out millions of tons of coal or making millions of cars.
But it falls down when you look at small industries like experimental
aviation. I think we'd all agree that the dollar value of all the experimental
aircraft engines sold in the USA amounts to a rounding error in a footnote to the
balance sheet of General Motors. There simply aren't enough units sold to
spread all the potential costs to the consumer without raising the price into the
stratosphere. An insurance company might still take a risk on you if we were
talking about a new formula for hairspray for hamsters, something targeted at a
small audience that probably wouldn't do much damage anyway, but the
consequences of making a bad airplane can be pretty serious. So a system such
as ours
makes it more difficult to bring a product that might make a big difference
in the lives of a small number of people (a good, light, cheap, reliable
airplane engine) to market because you can't get insurance to even out the bumps
in
the cost, and you can't pass all the costs to the consumer without alienating
them. On the other hand a very small number of us are affected, and America
has bigger fish to fry than listening to me moan about how much a Rotax 912
costs.
Want another legitimate criticism of the system? Its not that it gives
away too much money to these greedy freeloading plaintiffs, its that it doesn't
give away enough-- or more specifically, the system is way too random.
Permit me to illustrate this with a real world example.
In the early 90's a RANS S-10 crashed on the on the runway at the old
Kolb factory and killed the pilot. Dennis and the guys were eager to get the
wreckage off the property because it was kind of embarrassing, so I bought it.
The engine was a Rotax 582 so I detached it from the twisted metal and brought
it home and set it on the table in my garage to study. The cooling system was
a factory designed system from RANS and the more I looked at it the worse I
thought it was. This was back in the days when the 582 cold seizure phenomenon
was not as well understood as it is now; but even so, after a couple of days
of looking at it I was convinced that the engine seized because the radiator
system was horribly designed. It was a disaster waiting to happen to the poor
slob who flew the plane; it had no thermostat, the radiator was way oversized
by Rotax's specs, and it was in this huge fairing. Dumb, really dumb. I
concluded that the grieving widow had a thing or two to say to Randy Schlitter.
Did she ever get a dime from him? Nope. Did she try? Nope. And that strikes
me as a shame.
So to refine the criticism-- the system rewards some people (who assert
their claim in court, and not even all of them) and not others who are too
disorganized or grief stricken or plain stupid to make a stink. That gives folks
the impression that the courthouse is random, like a casino, and that is
corrosive respect for the law, and its also not true.
So how do smart guys like us fix this situation? Well, the typical
answer has been to go to your congressman with a fist full of cash and ask him
to
make a law exempting your industry from suit. The problem is that we live in a
democracy and everyone, and I mean everyone, doctors, car makers, drug
manufacturers, insurance companies, HMOs (even aircraft manufacturers) have all
lined up asking for protection from the cost spreading logic of the system. The
problem is that when one group successfully sloughs off their burden everybody
else has to pick up a little extra, and that doesn't sit too well with them.
And because this is a democracy, and because there aren't enough pilots of
experimental aircraft to fill all the Denny's in Delaware we are never going to
be able to vote ourselves the special protections that big industries that
produce important consumer products get from the government.
Guys, remember, the system is supposed to produce the greatest amount of
good for the greatest number of people (not affordable aircraft engines), and
from that point of view it is doing a swell job. We are in a teeny tiny
minority.
Mark Sellers
Kolb Twinstar Mark III, N496BM
Message 20
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Was that from the dude in Alabama in that area?
Well he did not accept my offer. :-)
I think it was missing a reduction drive or something,
I don't remember exactly.
I do need a motor now, as I am running out time. All I
have left to do is the doors and the instrument pod
stand, and then the engine.
and then covering.
Which reminds me how are the door latches installed I
have nothing in the plans about the door latches.
I uploaded some pics to photo share asking for an
explanation about a welded bracket of a sort at center
cage under the gap seal. A couple of us were trying to
figure out what that is yesterday. Best idea was that
it had to do with an engine control?
any ideas? Again there is nada in the plans about
that.
do not archive
===================================
--- woody <duesouth@govital.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody"
> <duesouth@govital.net>
>
> Hey Ron
> What happened to the F 30 you were thinking of
> buying? Sounded like a great
> deal
> aerialron@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Well i was inclined to buy the Simonini anyway.
> and
> > now it looks like a virtual certainty.
> >
> > do not archive.
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Mark,
An excellent, reasoned post. Mirabile scriptu!
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Counseler Sellers,
Well put explanation, and I believe very accurate.
Does not make me feel any better, and does not make me believe there are a
very large number of frivolus suits filed on American manufacturers, causing
them to leave the markets to the Foriegn "untouchables" ...but...it does
help me to understand the complexity and sophistication of your view. You
likely see it more clearly than most of us can.
The size of the market will not bear the expense of the litigations that
will come with it.
Our industry analysts tell me the entire world market for NON-certified
aircraft engines is around 10,000 per year.
I do not see a solution...unless somehow an import tariff could be assessed
on a manufacturers goods that has lost a tort lawsuit to level the playing
feild for the american based companies that must defend themselves and bear
the expenses.
Easy to say...very complex to implement...
Similiar protectionism tactics have been employed in the past, as I cite the
tariffs on imported motorcycles levied to ressurect Harley Davidson years
ago. Some importers simply abandoned the market, as their share was
determined to be to small to bear this expense. But H-D was saved. Not
exactly the same of course..but similiar....
Even thinking about all this gets me down...and its a pretty day..I think I
will head to the Airpark and commit a little theraputical avation!
Thankyou for you views Counseler. your second post here was much easier for
me to understand than your first!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
800-626-7326
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: EAA - - - How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
> And because this is a democracy, and because there aren't enough pilots of
> experimental aircraft to fill all the Denny's in Delaware we are never
going to
> be able to vote ourselves the special protections that big industries that
> produce important consumer products get from the government.
>
. We are in a teeny tiny
> minority.
>
Let us all get on the horn to the EAA who is suppose to represent the good
of our hobby. THEY have the lobbying power. They wont budge unless YOU
call/email/complain to them about this problem. My gripe has been that they
spend WAY too much $$ on stuff that is really special interest to a few...
(let's not start a flame on that!) But if you are an EAA member, you
deserve more than a glossy periodical. I'd pay $6 rather than $5 for that
lemondade at Osh if they would put that profit towards solving this
liability problem.
Who amongst Kolb pilots care enough??
do not archive
Message 24
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Thanks Mark,
I really enjoyed that. Say if there is ever a time when we no longer need Attorneys
(yeah right) you could always make it as a writer:-)
pp
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
> those who simply say,
> "The country's gone sue happy So if you learned
> your morality from Hallmark
> greeting cards and your economics from Time
==================================
The country has gone sue happy! that's why every
Kolber is a potential victim. And this is why back
when $20 dollars were the equivalent of $2000 or more
dollars, less people sued. Or law suits were rare.
$20 bucks aint much nowadays so anyone can sue.
I may agree that $20/$2000 may not be an impediment to
grave injury suit. But in the same breath I can also
add that as has the limit of $20 bucks as the entry
for civil suits been rendered meaningless, so has lots
else. Opening the door to all sorts of unjust and
costly litigation. The Justice System has become a the
"Legal Business". Profit its is primary motive, at
least on the civil side for the Bar. I don't think
that can be denied.
do not archive
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron or Mary" <whyme@vci.net>
Right =96We really have a great legal system. A fumble fingered woman can=92t
hold onto her coffee cup and dumps her coffee in her lap. McDonalds has to
pay millions of dollars because they serve hot coffee. Lets look at a
hypothetical case. A man works for a company and his job requires him to
travel a lot. He goes to the local bar while on one of these trips and has a
few drinks. He meets a good-looking girl and takes her to his room. He
contacts a fatal disease from this woman and dies. He has a wife and 4
children. He was earning $100,000 dollars a year and was 40 years old. If he
had lived till retirement with a modest 5% annually increase he would have
earned over 5 million dollars. His family is now left alone. Who should be
held responsible, the motel that rented him the room, the company that
created the job that required travel, or should he and his family have to
accept the fact that he made a poor decision and was a lousy husband and
father. This is one of the problems with our legal system. Look for the deep
pockets and ignore the facts. We all know the risk we take when we fly our
planes and should along with our families be prepared if the unthinkable
happens and not try to blame someone else. An engine failure does not cause
injury. The lack of knowledge on the pilots part either by putting himself
in a position that he cannot cope with the engine failure or does not have
the ability to respond to this engine failure is what causes injury.
-------Original Message-------
From: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: How it all works
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Cavuontop@aol.com
Gentlemen:
I regret the sarcastic tone of my prior contribution to the thread on
2SI. But, I confess, I become exasperated with simple minded discussions of
the
very complex legal/economic issues surrounding aviation, especially when
they
suggest that lawyers ought to be shot, or that its all just a scam to make
lawyers rich. I've been doing stoop labor, trying to wring a little justice
out
of the sweaty fields of the law for nearly 20 years now, and frankly, I
think
my view is way more sophisticated, and correct, than those who simply say,
"The country's gone sue happy!!"
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
of the sweaty fields of the law for nearly 20 years now, and frankly, I
> think
> my view is way more sophisticated, and correct, than those who simply say,
Well I'm still trying to figure out how OJ got off. Seemed obvious to me
that he did it. I guess that's for those in higher places with a way more
sophisticated view to decide.
Do not archive
Message 28
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
While we are venting all this out so we can get back to Kolb's I'd like to share
my favorite. I like the guy that bought the $5000.00 dollar cigar, insured it,
then smoked it,filed in on his policy, got denied, sued, won!,then got 5 years
for arson!
pp
do not archive
Message 29
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <JJP45@comcast.net>
THAT IS PRECISLY WHY WE HAVE THE LAWYER JOKES , THEY MAKE EVERYTHING
SOUND GOOD , THEY ALSO WROTE THE LAWS .
JJP FS II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: tha law
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Thanks Mark,
> I really enjoyed that. Say if there is ever a time when we no longer need
Attorneys (yeah right) you could always make it as a writer:-)
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob N." <ronoy@shentel.net>
Snuffy,
oj got off due to jury nullification--see it most every day in
Malfunction Junction.
Bob N. If he be black, don't attack.
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Really Nice Comments... |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
We're nearing the end of this year's List Fund Raiser and I wanted to share
some of the really nice comments members have been making about the Lists
and what the Lists mean to them. Please take a moment to read over some of
the thought's members have shared with me in the last couple of weeks
regarding the Lists. Its pretty awesome.
If you haven't taken a moment to show your support for the operation and
upgrade of these services, won't you do so now? These Lists are operated
solely through the $20 or $30 contribution you make each year. Without
your yearly support, the Lists may cease to exist in the future. It takes
your resources to keep these systems up. Remember, there's no advertising
budget to keep things afloat. I think pretty much everyone appreciates the
fact that I don't have any pop-ads or flashing banners of any kind on the
List. Your support assures it will stay that way.
Please make your contribution today and, in one small, way fight off the
every increasing commercialism creep that is taking over the Internet!! :-)
The SSL Secure web site for making your List Contribution can be found here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you to everyone that has already showed their support for the List!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
======== Awesome Comments From Members Regarding The Lists =========
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...a very informative list.
- Derek L.
I've been checking the RV List for the past 7 years and it has been
very helpful.
- Dann P.
I can't imagine NOT having the RV list as a resource while
building my RV-7!
- Dwight F.
Great list. I lurk a lot and get great knowledge from Bob et al.
- Mark B.
I find something every day on the RV lis that helps me in my RV-4 project.
- Ron P.
The Kolb List has helped me in many ways. Has gotten me in
contact with and made many new friends and probably a few
enemies too...
- John H.
Those who do not contribute are finks!
- Hal K.
When I run into a problem I search the Lists and can get several solutions.
- Paul L.
The build process would be twice as difficult without it.
- Hap S.
Great service.
- F.R. M.
...it's a pleasure to be part of this generous community of builder/pilots.
- Ron P.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 32
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: <JJP45@comcast.net>
If that were really so complicated , why do poloticians / lawyers ,
wright the laws , sue the
tobacco companies , and also vote to subsidise them , if it doesn't help
ALL lawyers in general ?
Maybe shoot the writers too !!!!!!!!!!!!
ps : It doesn't surprise me that so many are willing to suck - up anything
well written .
JJP FS II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: tha law
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Thanks Mark,
> I really enjoyed that. Say if there is ever a time when we no longer need
Attorneys (yeah right) you could always make it as a writer:-)
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: <JJP45@comcast.net>
Well SAID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron or Mary" <whyme@vci.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: How it all works
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron or Mary" <whyme@vci.net>
>
> Right =96We really have a great legal system. A fumble fingered woman
can=92t
> hold onto her coffee cup and dumps her coffee in her lap. McDonalds has to
> pay millions of dollars because they serve hot coffee. Lets look at a
> hypothetical case. A man works for a company and his job requires him to
> travel a lot. He goes to the local bar while on one of these trips and has
a
> few drinks. He meets a good-looking girl and takes her to his room. He
> contacts a fatal disease from this woman and dies. He has a wife and 4
> children. He was earning $100,000 dollars a year and was 40 years old. If
he
> had lived till retirement with a modest 5% annually increase he would have
> earned over 5 million dollars. His family is now left alone. Who should be
> held responsible, the motel that rented him the room, the company that
> created the job that required travel, or should he and his family have to
> accept the fact that he made a poor decision and was a lousy husband and
> father. This is one of the problems with our legal system. Look for the
deep
> pockets and ignore the facts. We all know the risk we take when we fly our
> planes and should along with our families be prepared if the unthinkable
> happens and not try to blame someone else. An engine failure does not
cause
> injury. The lack of knowledge on the pilots part either by putting himself
> in a position that he cannot cope with the engine failure or does not have
> the ability to respond to this engine failure is what causes injury.
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, November 21, 2003 12:14:54
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: How it all works
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: Cavuontop@aol.com
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I regret the sarcastic tone of my prior contribution to the thread
on
> 2SI. But, I confess, I become exasperated with simple minded discussions
of
> the
> very complex legal/economic issues surrounding aviation, especially when
> they
> suggest that lawyers ought to be shot, or that its all just a scam to make
> lawyers rich. I've been doing stoop labor, trying to wring a little
justice
> out
> of the sweaty fields of the law for nearly 20 years now, and frankly, I
> think
> my view is way more sophisticated, and correct, than those who simply say,
> "The country's gone sue happy!!"
>
>
Message 34
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
Dennis:
You are right, the attorneys for each party do have input in the form of
limited number of preemptory (no particular reason) challenges and an
unlimited number of challenges for cause (prejudice of some kind). However,
the pool from which a jury is chosen, at least in Michigan, is from a
combination of voter registration and drivers license lists. I think that
is a good cross section of society. after 22 years in the business, I truly
believe that justice is done in the civil and criminal courts of this
country far more often than not. Not a perfect system by any means, but one
I would rather trust than in other countries. We can still improve and
should strive for perfection in our justice system
Steve Spence FF013
bldg. Mk3X - 912S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lawyers
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "stephen e. spence" <sspence@tm.net>
> >
> > Paul:
> I do think all should realize that the relatively rare verdicts
> > that would be described as outrageous were rendered by a jury. Juries
are
> > made up of just ordinary people.
> >
> > Steve Spence FF 013
> > building Mk3X
> >
>
> Steve,
> I thought the lawyers had a lot to do with the folks picked to hear major
> cases, am I mistaken?
>
> Dennis Rowe
> PS: How is the Mk-3 project coming along?
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 35
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Hey Guy's,
How about a big hat's off to James Tripp(building a Fire Star) on his first solo
today!
pp
do not archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | Cross Country Overnight Gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Gang:
If you are planning on doing some overnight cross country
flying in you Kolb, spend the night under the wing, in your
tent, on the hanger floor, or anywhere else on the ground,
you need a good bed. Thermarest is the best. I have been
using them since my 1994 flight. Have slept on concrete,
asphalt, dirt, rocks, gravel, wood floor, grass, etc., with
complete comfort. One has to have a good night's sleep if
he is going to spend the next day flying.
Campmor has a real good deal on the same Thermarest I use.
They have smaller ones, which I have also, but this is my
favorite:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=58731&prmenbr=226
I have been doing business with Campmor for a long time.
They readily accept returns and ship quickly on internet or
telephone orders.
You also need a good sleeping bag, and a pillow, if you use
one at home. A good quality tent is also essential. There
are a lot of small, quality tents at Campmor.
Here is a good summer sleeping bag:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=29034088&prmenbr=226
The one man bivy tent is good if you have a Fire Fly or
Firestar. That's what I used and paid $100 for it 16 years
ago. People called it my body bag. Now they are cheaper:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=12253&prmenbr=226
Here's a whole buncha tents:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=77451&cgmenbr=226&sort=A
Whole buncha sleeping bags:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=77452&cgmenbr=226&sort=A
Here's the home page:
http://www.campmor.com/
I get no kick back, darn it. Just good service and quality
gear from them.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 37
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "dama" <dama@mindspring.com>
If this is the Colonel from Alabama, the weather was on his side!!!
Congrats.
Kip
do not archive
http://www.springeraviation.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: solo
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
>
> Hey Guy's,
> How about a big hat's off to James Tripp(building a Fire Star) on his
first solo today!
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 38
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: Terry <tkrolfe@usadatanet.net>
Jack,
How did the fairing's you made for the ailerons work? Did you get
positive results? Did it do anything for prop noise?
Maybe you have all ready posted the results and I missed them, if not, I
would like to hear about them.
A fellow FireFly driver,
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: EAA - - - How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
I noticed that in the aftermath of the 911 thing that EAA sort of folded
with the
party line but AOPA, whom I formerly joked about. stood up to the feds
with their blind rampant encroachmenton of pilots rights. My hat's off
to them.
I don't think much of anyone who likes to "side with the winners"
-liberal yankee Bob, off to watch Bill Moyers do not archive
Jon Croke wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
>
>
>>And because this is a democracy, and because there aren't enough pilots of
>>experimental aircraft to fill all the Denny's in Delaware we are never
>>
>>
>going to
>
>
>>be able to vote ourselves the special protections that big industries that
>>produce important consumer products get from the government.
>>
>>
>>
>.. We are in a teeny tiny
>
>
>>minority.
>>
>>
>>
>Let us all get on the horn to the EAA who is suppose to represent the good
>of our hobby. THEY have the lobbying power. They wont budge unless YOU
>call/email/complain to them about this problem. My gripe has been that they
>spend WAY too much $$ on stuff that is really special interest to a few...
>(let's not start a flame on that!) But if you are an EAA member, you
>deserve more than a glossy periodical. I'd pay $6 rather than $5 for that
>lemondade at Osh if they would put that profit towards solving this
>liability problem.
>
>Who amongst Kolb pilots care enough??
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Christopher J Armstrong" <tophera@centurytel.net>
Gee, thats complicated. Try designing a man rated space ship sometime.
How about:
1) we stop using the courts as insurance. That is most definitely not
what they are for.
2) We stop giving anyone, no matter what horrible thing happens
ridiculous settlements. How much life insurance does the average
American have. I would guess $250,000 or less. So that should be the
maximum award you can give over actual expenses.
3) Require legally supportable proof that a company was actually
negligent, in addition to convincing the jury. Not that they made a
REASONABLE mistake. Not that something happened that was beyond their
control. They actually made a conscious decision that directly caused
that accident. If they didn't then they are not at fault and should not
be held accountable.
4) If you chose to take part in any activity that has risks associated
with it and the odds turn up against you, you dont get to blame
somebody else for that random act and steal from them. That's right
STEAL from them.
5) If you take legal action against someone, right now you risk
nothing, as the lawyers will work for a percentage of the take, no up
front money. Well guess what, the defense attorney have to be paid and
there is no take at the end of the tunnel unless you successfully
counter sue... Good luck with that. The system absolutely has to be
changed that the loser pays both sides legal expenses. This is simply
obvious and until it happens the system is not only stupid but immoral.
I don't think this is the working lawyers fault. It is the folks in the
house and senate who allow these problems in the legal systems to
develop and continue who are at fault.
Topher
---
Message 41
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
Thanks for the link to Campmor John. Do not archive.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
Message 42
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl@highstream.net>
> Hey Guy's,
> How about a big hat's off to James Tripp(building a Fire Star) on his
first solo today!
>
> pp
>
> do not archive
>
Congratulations James, and many more fun flying times to you all.
Dennis Rowe
double do not archive
Message 43
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
It was said all Kolb airfoils are the same is this true of a Firestar from
the "OLD KOLB " As well ? ... Dave
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 44
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane@rtmc.net>
I have a cuyuna ul II 02 for sale with belt reduction. this engine is good
to use on a airboat. 450.00 I have to be careful about selling a aircraft
engine { 2SI problems I don't need em }
Randy soobydoo
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Show and Tell |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" <biglar@gogittum.com>
I hafta agree with Don, John. The other pics are all good, and envy making,
but the Point Barrow pic is a classic. Very nice. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Show and Tell
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> John,
> I just have to tell you, that pic of Point Barrow is about the most
> inspiring pic taken from a light plane I have ever seen. In fact, that
> single picture is causing me to consider buying a newer and better
printer!
> (Sue says thanks alot!)....hehehe!
>
> do not archive
>
> Don Gherardini
> Sales / Engineering dept.
> American Honda Engines
> Power Equipment Company
> 800-626-7326
>
>
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