Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay (ron wehba)
2. 05:13 AM - Kolb List Off Topic Delta Ohio HELP ! (BMWBikeCrz@aol.com)
3. 05:35 AM - Legal question (woody)
4. 06:22 AM - Re: Legal question (Ron or Mary)
5. 08:40 AM - EIS effect on Compass? (Terry Davis)
6. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay (Don Gherardini)
7. 09:37 AM - Re: Legal question (John Hauck)
8. 09:38 AM - Re: law (John Hauck)
9. 10:51 AM - Re: Legal question (Kirk Smith)
10. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay (CaptainRon)
11. 11:11 AM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
12. 11:24 AM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (CaptainRon)
13. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay (CaptainRon)
14. 11:35 AM - Re: Cross Country Overnight Gear (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
15. 12:19 PM - Re: How it all works (Bob Noyer)
16. 12:29 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (Bob Noyer)
17. 01:02 PM - Re: Legal question (GeoR38@aol.com)
18. 01:14 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (GeoR38@aol.com)
19. 01:16 PM - Re: Cross Country Overnight Gear (John Hauck)
20. 01:17 PM - Re: How it all works (GeoR38@aol.com)
21. 01:25 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (Duncan McBride)
22. 01:49 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (John Hauck)
23. 02:20 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (jerb)
24. 02:42 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (jerb)
25. 03:22 PM - Seeking a 447 (Fackler, Ken)
26. 03:37 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (CaptainRon)
27. 04:48 PM - Oshkosh 2004 (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
28. 04:52 PM - Magnetized cages & the compass (Richard Pike)
29. 05:31 PM - Re: Legal question (woody)
30. 06:50 PM - Re: Oshkosh 2004 (John Hauck)
31. 07:00 PM - Vortex generators and flare (Richard Pike)
32. 07:21 PM - Was EIS effect on Compass, now GPS (Duncan McBride)
33. 10:33 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (WillUribe@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
got any pics of it yet, sounds good
----- Original Message -----
From: <GeoR38@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/23/03 1:38:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> donghe@one-eleven.net writes:
>
> >
> > Testing is far from complete...Just getting started. But after today, I
am
> > sure its gonna be a honey! Wished I had a N-3 pup today to bolt it on
and
> > FLY!
> > (Sorry for the Blasphemey men!)
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> > Don Gherardini
> > FireFly 098
> >
>
> Don't be ...that is a great airplane too...and safe!!...ask me how I know.
>
> GeorgeRandolph
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kolb List Off Topic Delta Ohio HELP ! |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
Anyone near delta Ohio (43515)please E-mail me off list .... Dave
Message 3
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
As we beat this legal system thing to death I would like to re-ask a
question I posed a couple years ago. Molt Taylor said the best way to
protect yourself from a lawsuit is to guarantee the product to fail, injure,
or kill either due to poor design, poor construction or poor pilotage. If
something happens then he has fulfilled his guarantee. If you cannot accept
the guarantee before you purchase the item then he will not feel bad about
losing your business. My question is " Would this work in an American court
of law". I would think that it would as the purchaser knows what he is
getting into and would have written proof that he accepted the risks before
hand.
Before we give the grieving widow money could you tell us what caused the
pilots death in the Rans? What was different about his Rans that all Rans
of that model with those options and whatever engine system used are not
falling out of the sky killing every pilot that flies one? That would tell
me there is a design problem. One aircraft having a problem does not really
tell me there is a design problem. Could Rotax be sued for not putting a
limiter in the system somewhere that does not allow the pilot to take off
before the engine warms up or should it be resonable for them to expect a
pilot to let his engine warm up before flight?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Legal question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ron or Mary" <whyme@vci.net>
Good question but that raises another question. What if this purchaser then
resells the plane to a third party. This new owner is not asked to agree to
these terms and doesn't even know they exist. The first owner as the
builder is not protected from a law suit by a third party. The second owner
cannot sign away the rights of anyone else and the second owner has no
liability as he is not the builder. I should be forming this as a question
to the legal experts as I am not a lawyer.
Do Not Archive.
-------Original Message-------
From: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Legal question
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
As we beat this legal system thing to death I would like to re-ask a
question I posed a couple years ago. Molt Taylor said the best way to
protect yourself from a lawsuit is to guarantee the product to fail, injure,
or kill either due to poor design, poor construction or poor pilotage. If
something happens then he has fulfilled his guarantee. If you cannot accept
the guarantee before you purchase the item then he will not feel bad about
losing your business. My question is " Would this work in an American court
of law". I would think that it would as the purchaser knows what he is
getting into and would have written proof that he accepted the risks before
hand.
Before we give the grieving widow money could you tell us what caused the
pilots death in the Rans? What was different about his Rans that all Rans
of that model with those options and whatever engine system used are not
falling out of the sky killing every pilot that flies one? That would tell
me there is a design problem. One aircraft having a problem does not really
tell me there is a design problem. Could Rotax be sued for not putting a
limiter in the system somewhere that does not allow the pilot to take off
before the engine warms up or should it be resonable for them to expect a
pilot to let his engine warm up before flight?
.
Message 5
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| Subject: | EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on the Firestar and I'd like
to know if an EIS box has any effect on a compass when it's turned on. The altimeter
will go between them, but on that miniature panel there isn't enough room
to get it very far away.
Terry Davis Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90% done, 90% left
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Ron,
Well Ron I did take 1 pic...I'll send it to matt right now.
test stand is a equipped with a chain drive reduction for quick change of
test ratios, and reduction is mounted to stand not the engine. For ratio and
load testing only. Not an airworthy design. I have a 100 hp waterbrake dyno
for it also , but the load cell is busted, And as the company is OOB that
made the Dyno..I cant duplicate the air-diaphram load cell
transducer...maybe this winter I will be able to reconfig the load cell
mechanism to something a little more "off the shelf"...but you know how it
goes..."another project"!
DO NOT ARCHIVE3
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Legal question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Woody/All:
I remember you talking about the Molt Taylor philosophy
before. I like it. I like what ever will get our system to
work fairly. Dennis Souder can fill us in on more detail of
what happened in the RANS accident at Homer Kolb's airstrip.
I believe, IIRC, the man had an engine out, tried to
return to the field, stalled, crashed, and killed himself.
You and I and everybody else know that that is not the fault
of anyone but the pilot. He is the man in command and
ultimately makes decisions that will affect him forever.
Will it work in the US? Doubt it. Folks in the legal
department are so full of themselves they believe
"everything" is just and right, as long as they can, some
how, justify it in the legal jungle. "Well, that depends on
what the definition of "is" is. :-)
Thanks for your post Woody. You are the only one that has
made any sense of this argument yet, IMOHO.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Edward Chmielewski wrote:
> I know more than a couple of lawyers. All honorable, good men. I think they
are largely
> like most of us.
>
> Ed in JXN
Ed/All:
I agree.
Some good! And, some bad! Just like all the other folks in
the world.
Take care,
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Legal question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy@usol.com>
had an engine out, tried to
> return to the field, stalled, crashed, and killed himself.
> You and I and everybody else know that that is not the fault
> of anyone but the pilot. He is the man in command and
> ultimately makes decisions that will affect him forever.
But secretly his mourning widow hated the b-----s guts because he spent all
their extra money on airplane stuff and secret meetings in out of the way
airports. She wins a multimillion dollar settlement buys all the land
around the airport puts in a dairy farm then sues the airport because the
airplane noise is making her cows so nervous they stop giving milk. She is
successful at winning another multi-million dollar settlement and also
closing the airport down and gaining another 640 acres of pasture minus
concrete runways, etc. I heard some cows have twisted their ankles as the
concrete seems to be weak in some areas. In the meantime soldiers are dying
in Iraq in the name of the freedoms that she has. I hope she can find it in
heart to send some money to some of the dead soldiers families as they can't
sue the government. The money would certainly help. Many of them were
receiving food stamps as the military wages are pitifully low for the lower
enlisted ranks.
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
Hi Don
What's the hp rating on that motor. Got any pics you
can upload. Its nice to know that you are out there
doing something that can benefit all of us.
===============================================
--- Don Gherardini <donghe@one-eleven.net> wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Don Gherardini"
> <donghe@one-eleven.net>
>
> Jack, Gang..
>
> Today, I ran a modified Honda 670cc V-twin aircooled
> engine (GX670K1QA) on a
> test stand with a 60 "ivo 3 blade.
>
> Reduction unit of 2.2/1 on it and a CV36
> mikuni....Jetting still a tad rich.
>
> I am I the process of a progressive test schedule of
> RPM and temperature
> stage monitering.
>
> that final run today was 30 minutes at 4400 rpms.
> Tenperature stopped
> climbing at 270 F at 15 minutes, and stayed
>
> The Ivo is set exactly like it was when on my
> FireFly with a 2.5/1 belt
> reduction.
>
> the firefly would run 60 mph at 5000 rpms at this
> pitch.
>
> Prop Hub rpms = 2000
>
> I have not weighed this set up. But shipping weight
> on a new GX620 is 90
> lbs...this includes electric starter...operation
> panel.
> List price is 1200 bucks....street price is less
> everywhere.
>
> Testing is far from complete...Just getting started.
> But after today, I am
> sure its gonna be a honey! Wished I had a N-3 pup
> today to bolt it on and
> FLY!
> (Sorry for the Blasphemey men!)
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
I wouldn't put the compass in the instrument panel. I found with my MKIII
that basic analog instruments with electronic sending units would swing my
compass. Get one of those windshield mounted compasses and mount it as far
as possible from any wire or electrical device.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
>
> I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on the Firestar and I'd
like to know if an EIS box has any effect on a compass when it's turned on.
The altimeter will go between them, but on that miniature panel there isn't
enough room to get it very far away.
> Terry Davis Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90% done, 90% left
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
The easiest way to determine is to turn the unit on
and off and see if there is any difference as you are
moving the compass around. should not make too much
difference from my experience if its more than 4
inches away. 12 volts don't throw off that strong a
magnetic field.
===========================
> I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on
> the Firestar and I'd like to know if an EIS box has
> any effect on a compass when it's turned on. The
> altimeter will go between them, but on that
> miniature panel there isn't enough room to get it
> very far away.
> Terry Davis Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90%
> done, 90% left
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 906 on Ebay |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
but you know how
it
goes..."another project"!
============================
Yes I do. got several critical ones that are awaiting
completion of the M3X. ;-)
do not archive
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cross Country Overnight Gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Personally I like a cot I quit tent camping a number of years ago because I
got good and wet from standing water flooding into my tent. Cots get you up
off the ground so your more likely to stay dry. And it fits in my airplane
very well. I purchased the following:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=226&prrfnbr=7596
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Cross Country Overnight Gear
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Gang:
>
> If you are planning on doing some overnight cross country
> flying in you Kolb, spend the night under the wing, in your
> tent, on the hanger floor, or anywhere else on the ground,
> you need a good bed. Thermarest is the best. I have been
> using them since my 1994 flight. Have slept on concrete,
> asphalt, dirt, rocks, gravel, wood floor, grass, etc., with
> complete comfort. One has to have a good night's sleep if
> he is going to spend the next day flying.
>
> Campmor has a real good deal on the same Thermarest I use.
> They have smaller ones, which I have also, but this is my
> favorite:
>
>
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=58731&prmenbr=226
>
> I have been doing business with Campmor for a long time.
> They readily accept returns and ship quickly on internet or
> telephone orders.
>
> You also need a good sleeping bag, and a pillow, if you use
> one at home. A good quality tent is also essential. There
> are a lot of small, quality tents at Campmor.
>
> Here is a good summer sleeping bag:
>
>
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=29034088&prmenbr=226
>
> The one man bivy tent is good if you have a Fire Fly or
> Firestar. That's what I used and paid $100 for it 16 years
> ago. People called it my body bag. Now they are cheaper:
>
>
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=12253&prmenbr=226
>
> Here's a whole buncha tents:
>
>
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=77451&cgmenbr=226&sort=A
>
> Whole buncha sleeping bags:
>
>
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=77452&cgmenbr=226&sort=A
>
> Here's the home page:
>
> http://www.campmor.com/
>
> I get no kick back, darn it. Just good service and quality
> gear from them.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <ronoy@shentel.net>
Geo.,
The P is silent, as in Swimming.
Bob N.
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer <ronoy@shentel.net>
I have an EIS on one side of the FF's small IP--compass on other side. No
effect on compass. Or did you mean when the compass is turned on!!
Bob N.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Legal question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 11/23/03 12:38:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
> Will it work in the US? Doubt it. Folks in the legal
> department are so full of themselves they believe
> "everything" is just and right, as long as they can, some
> how, justify it in the legal jungle. "Well, that depends on
> what the definition of "is" is. :-)
>
> Thanks for your post Woody. You are the only one that has
> made any sense of this argument yet, IMOHO.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
I agree!!....unfortunately...that straightforwardness must be sacrificed for
trickiness.
George Randolph
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 11/23/03 2:25:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aerialron@yahoo.com writes:
> The easiest way to determine is to turn the unit on
> and off and see if there is any difference as you are
> moving the compass around. should not make too much
> difference from my experience if its more than 4
> inches away. 12 volts don't throw off that strong a
> magnetic field.
>
volts doesn't throw off any magnetic field...only current does, regardless of
the voltage.
Also the ferromagnetic materials in the plane will take on a magnetic set and
become slightly magnetized themselves...namely the iron bearing materials
including steels, minimaly in stainless, however, and effect the compass reading
over a long period of time as you park your plane in the same orientation of
the same location each time. Therefore it should be mounted as far away from
any iron bearing metal as possible. That's why the middle of the windshield is
usually favored.
George Randolph
Firestar driver...from The Villages
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Cross Country Overnight Gear |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> Personally I like a cot
> Rick Neilsen
Rick/All:
I agree with you 100%.
Whatever makes you most comfortable that you have room in
your airplane to fly with, go for it.
When I cross country'd in the Firestar my gear and clothing
was very meager. Graduated to the MK III with its purposely
designed large cargo area (on my airplane) and the amount of
clothing and gear also increased.
The main thing is be comfortable, get a good night's sleep,
and have with you what is necessary to accomplish your
flight with the least possible problems.
Mission: Have fun!
john h
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: How it all works |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
In a message dated 11/23/03 3:20:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ronoy@shentel.net writes:
> Geo.,
>
> The P is silent, as in Swimming.
>
> Bob N.
>
> do not archive
>
> LOL
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
I have an EIS. I have a panel mounted compass right on the centerline of my
Mark III ( where neither the pilot or the passenger has a great view, go
figure), and the EIS is to the lower right about 5" from the compass.
Compass reads ok. Sure would hate for my GPS to fail, though. I have it
powered off the plane's bus, so batteries aren't a problem, but I should get
a backup...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
<NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> I wouldn't put the compass in the instrument panel. I found with my MKIII
> that basic analog instruments with electronic sending units would swing my
> compass. Get one of those windshield mounted compasses and mount it as far
> as possible from any wire or electrical device.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
> To: "Kolb List" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass?
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
> >
> > I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on the Firestar and
I'd
> like to know if an EIS box has any effect on a compass when it's turned
on.
> The altimeter will go between them, but on that miniature panel there
isn't
> enough room to get it very far away.
> > Terry Davis Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90% done, 90% left
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> though. I have it powered off the plane's bus, so
> batteries aren't a problem,
but I should get
> a backup...
Duncan/All:
Isn't that what the mag compass is for? backup?
I have a mag compass. Never been able to swing it
correctly. Extremely unreliable. About the only thing I
can do with it is keep from flying in circles. It is panel
mounted, same as it was in the Firestar.
Mag compass was primary directional instrument in the
Firestar. Did all my cross countries with it and sectional.
Worked great.
Have changed out compasses in the MK III, but still get the
same behavior. It is spooked.................
john h
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
What do you mean you don't have much room. Man I got a 2-1/4 AIS, VSI,
G-Meter, Compass, 3-1/8" Sensitive altimeter, hobbs meter, 6 switches,
large display EIS, and the big red light in a FireFly panel. I've sent a
picture directly to you since I cant post it to the list. I have the
compass just under the left hand corner of the EIS with no problem - the
only interference I have seen is when I key the handheld radio, it does
cause a little deflection pulse in the electronic variometer (VSI) like
used in gliders and is very sensitive.
jerb
At 02:10 PM 11/23/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen"
><NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
>I wouldn't put the compass in the instrument panel. I found with my MKIII
>that basic analog instruments with electronic sending units would swing my
>compass. Get one of those windshield mounted compasses and mount it as far
>as possible from any wire or electrical device.
>
>Rick Neilsen
>Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
>To: "Kolb List" <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass?
>
>
> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
> >
> > I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on the Firestar and I'd
>like to know if an EIS box has any effect on a compass when it's turned on.
>The altimeter will go between them, but on that miniature panel there isn't
>enough room to get it very far away.
> > Terry Davis Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90% done, 90% left
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
John H,
You probably have magnetized your airframe flying over those big hunks of
iron ore and up there close to the north pole. Now your plane just
automatically wants to head north.
Avionics shops degauss GA aircraft all the time. Sounds like you may need
to have that done to yours. What I've seen them use is a big 18-24" dia
degaussing coil. If you don't know what your doing you can make it even
worst - how you hold it relative to the aircraft while approaching and
especially backing away before de-energizing the coil is extremely important.
jerb
At 03:47 PM 11/23/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > though. I have it powered off the plane's bus, so
> > batteries aren't a problem,
>but I should get
> > a backup...
>
>Duncan/All:
>
>Isn't that what the mag compass is for? backup?
>
>I have a mag compass. Never been able to swing it
>correctly. Extremely unreliable. About the only thing I
>can do with it is keep from flying in circles. It is panel
>mounted, same as it was in the Firestar.
>
>Mag compass was primary directional instrument in the
>Firestar. Did all my cross countries with it and sectional.
> Worked great.
>
>Have changed out compasses in the MK III, but still get the
>same behavior. It is spooked.................
>
>john h
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler@ameritech.net>
Dear fellow Kolbers and lurkers:
A flying friend of mine has a Kitfox Lite with the now notorious 2si engine.
He'd like to find a good deal on a 447. Would any of you who have info on
such contact me offline, please? Here's my contact:
kfackler@ameritech.net
Many thanks, gentlemen!
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon <aerialron@yahoo.com>
How much current is 12v / by say 20 watts which is
what I would guess the EIS would consume tops. In
other words a negligible magnetic field disturbance.
The aluminum in the mounting frame, and the plastic
pod and the relevant surroundings are none ferrous,
thus no possibility of residual magnetism in anything.
Some simple arranging of the instruments in the
Plastic pod will keep everything just fine.
I would not place the compass on the windshield if in
any way I can avoid it. As I don't want to block/ruin
any of the view. If it can fit into the pod that Kolb
provided then that's where I will place my compass.
==================================
--- GeoR38@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: GeoR38@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/23/03 2:25:26 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> aerialron@yahoo.com writes:
>
> > The easiest way to determine is to turn the unit
> on
> > and off and see if there is any difference as you
> are
> > moving the compass around. should not make too
> much
> > difference from my experience if its more than 4
> > inches away. 12 volts don't throw off that strong
> a
> > magnetic field.
===================================
> volts doesn't throw off any magnetic field...only
> current does, regardless of
> the voltage.
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 27
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--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
The Johns are heading for Alaska how about the rest of you? How about gathering
some place and doing a mass Kolb fly in to Oshkosh next summer?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Message 28
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| Subject: | Magnetized cages & the compass |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
When cages are welded up, sometimes there is magnetic energy formed and
retained in the cluster joints. This had happened in the J-6 fuselage I
bought years ago. You can test it easily enough, take a small compass, any
cheap one will do, and move it near the different welded cluster joints of
your airplane. If any are notably magnetized, the compass will react
strongly and erratically to them. Mark those joints for degaussing.
Here's how you do it: remove anything from your airplane that would be
harmed by a strong magnetic field, and then get an electric bulk
cassette/VCR/reel-to-reel tape eraser. Radio shack used to sell them for
about 10-15$, maybe still do? Stand at least 5 feet back from the
magnetized cluster joint, turn the eraser on, and move it toward the joint
in big sweeping spirals, slowly decreasing the size of the spiral as you
get closer, sort of a vortex or cone shape pattern with the affected joint
the apex of the cone. Get real close but don't touch the airplane, (the
magnet will try to suck your hand toward the airframe, one inch is about
the minimum you can safely do) and then smoothly sweep into opposite
direction spirals, do the mirror image reverse of your movement in, and
gradually move back out. Go at a measured pace and be symmetrical. Start
each joint from about 5 feet out. Don't turn it off until you are well away
from the airplane. Do this to each affected joint and when you get done,
your whiskey compass should work correctly. (You did remove it and set it
far away from the airplane first, didn't you?)
Take your time and think. Jerb's comments below are very true, but this is
not rocket science, if I could do it, anybody can do it. If you should
touch the airplane with the degausser at any joint, just redo that joint.
When you get done, go over the airplane again with a little hand held
compass and see if any joints need retreating. Be patient, you may not get
it perfect, but you will certainly make it acceptable.
This technique was taught to me by an old A & P mechanic who has now passed
on that Great Restoration Facility. It sure fixed the J-6 fuselage. Before
the degaussing treatment, the compass would go uselessly erratic anywhere
in the cockpit. After the treatment - perfectly normal.
Besides, think of all the entertainment the local hangar rats will get
watching you do it...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
At 04:48 PM 11/23/03 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
>John H,
><snip>
>Avionics shops degauss GA aircraft all the time. Sounds like you may need
>to have that done to yours. What I've seen them use is a big 18-24" dia
>degaussing coil. If you don't know what your doing you can make it even
>worse - how you hold it relative to the aircraft while approaching and
>especially backing away before de-energizing the coil is extremely important.
>jerb
>
>
>At 03:47 PM 11/23/03 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> >I have a mag compass. Never been able to swing it
> >correctly. Extremely unreliable. About the only thing I
> >can do with it is keep from flying in circles. It is panel
> >mounted, same as it was in the Firestar.
> >
> >Mag compass was primary directional instrument in the
> >Firestar. Did all my cross countries with it and sectional.
> > Worked great.
> >
> >Have changed out compasses in the MK III, but still get the
> >same behavior. It is spooked.................
> >
> >john h
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Legal question |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "woody" <duesouth@govital.net>
> Good question but that raises another question. What if this purchaser
then
> resells the plane to a third party
Perhaps a bit more of the guarantee is giving the purchaser the
oblication to pass on the condition of the guarantee and then pass on the
conditions to the next etc. etc. Purchaser should be willing to do this as
when he sells he also limits his liability.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2004 |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> The Johns are heading for Alaska how about the rest of
> you? How about gathering some place and doing a mass Kolb
> fly in to Oshkosh next summer?
>
> Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Rick/All
Guess we started something last year, didn't we?
I thoroughly enjoyed the few days I got to spend with the
guys that gathered at Scott Trask, Iron Mountain, MI. Scott
is a real yooper. We had a ball.
We'll be thinking about you all, wishing we were with you,
but..........can't be everywhere all the time.
john h
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 31
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| Subject: | Vortex generators and flare |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <rwpike@charter.net>
Did some flight testing today with two people at the slow end of the
spectrum. The MKIII with VG's has satisfied me that it is docile at a 45
mph approach speed solo, with good flare, float, and controllability, so
today I tried it with a passenger at a big grass strip. With 380 pounds of
people in it, it flies and behaves well on the approach, but at 45 mph,
full flaps, and idle thrust there was not enough elevator authority to
flare properly. Full aft stick did not produce a corresponding rotation to
a higher angle of attack and the resulting arrival was "firm." The wing was
willing, but the elevators were weak, they just didn't do much of anything.
So it looks like before you can fully utilize the VG's with a passenger and
flaps, you would need to gap seal the horizontal stab to the elevator and
VG the underside of the horizontal stab to increase control authority.
The porcupine gets hairier...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 32
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| Subject: | Was EIS effect on Compass, now GPS |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
You are right John, the compass is the backup. And often enough, I turn off
the GPS and fly a compass heading with my finger on the sectional. Often
enough to think I'd really rather use it as my emergency backup, after my
primary and backup GPSs fail.... ;<)
Actually, I like to keep my finger on the sectional when I'm over unfamiliar
territory, even with the GPS. An old habit, but I like knowing where stuff
is.
John, I know you got a new GPS recently. I remember you saying you were
real happy with it. I'm flying with a non-aviation Garmin GPS 3+. It's the
same size as the Garmin Pilot, and I'm thinking about getting the Pilot for
the aviation database an dfeatures, and use the 3+ as a backup. The nice
thing about them being the same size is I have a RAM mount for the 3+
already installed. But if another GPS offered a lot better features I'd
want to think about it. Are you still happy with yours? Which one is it?
Hey, I just strapped the new 17-gallon tank into 319DM. I should be flying
next weekend.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass?
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
>
> > though. I have it powered off the plane's bus, so
> > batteries aren't a problem,
> but I should get
> > a backup...
>
> Duncan/All:
>
> Isn't that what the mag compass is for? backup?
>
> I have a mag compass. Never been able to swing it
> correctly. Extremely unreliable. About the only thing I
> can do with it is keep from flying in circles. It is panel
> mounted, same as it was in the Firestar.
>
> Mag compass was primary directional instrument in the
> Firestar. Did all my cross countries with it and sectional.
> Worked great.
>
> Have changed out compasses in the MK III, but still get the
> same behavior. It is spooked.................
>
> john h
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: EIS effect on Compass? |
--> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com
Greetings,
I don't remember ever using my compass. I installed it because it is required
equipment but I don't even look at it.
I installed the airspeed indicator between the compass and the EIS for the
same reasons you are installing the altimeter between them. My EIS comes with
the altimeter and VIS read outs so I didn't need extra gauges.
Here are some picture of my FireStar panel.
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Gallup.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/MonumentV.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Visalia.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Siskiyou.jpg
http://gtalexander.home.att.net/images/pic09.jpg
http://gtalexander.home.att.net/images/pic16.jpg
Regards,
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
do not archive
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" <davistcs@eoni.com>
>
> I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on the Firestar and I'd
like to know if an EIS box has any effect on a compass when it's turned on.=A0
The altimeter will go between them, but on that miniature panel there isn't
enough room to get it very far away.=A0
> Terry Davis=A0=A0 Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90% done, 90% left
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