---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/24/03: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:27 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2004 (Larry Bourne) 2. 12:37 AM - [PLEASE READ!] "What's my Contribution used for?" (Matt Dralle) 3. 06:32 AM - weight and balance (bryan green) 4. 06:54 AM - Re: Was EIS effect on Compass, now GPS (John Hauck) 5. 08:50 AM - Re: Legal question (kuffel) 6. 08:54 AM - building (Paul Petty) 7. 11:08 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 11/23/03 (ALEMBIC7@aol.com) 8. 11:17 AM - Sleeping gear (Charlie & Meredith Blackwell) 9. 12:31 PM - Tort reform? (Jeremy Casey) 10. 01:08 PM - Re: Legal question (Richard Pike) 11. 01:24 PM - Re: Tort reform? (John Hauck) 12. 02:10 PM - Tort reform... (Jeremy Casey) 13. 02:21 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (jerb) 14. 04:34 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (Denny Rowe) 15. 04:58 PM - Re: EIS effect on Compass? (Guy Morgan) 16. 05:02 PM - Re: weight and balance (possums) 17. 06:27 PM - Re: Oshkosh 2004 (Dave & Eve Pelletier) 18. 08:19 PM - Molt Taylor's Aerocar Landing Characteristics (kuffel) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:57 AM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2004 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" It's well known that OSH isn't my cuppa tea, but that's a good idea for many. We should also be churning up something on the order of last years' Monument Valley fly-in for those of us who won't be doing the Alaska flight. Personally, I'm divided - I thoroughly enjoyed last years' trip, and wouldn't at all mind doing it again. Any others feel like that ?? I also wouldn't mind if the vote goes to somewhere else, for variety............but not Jackpot.............puh-leeze. Any thoughts from interested people out there ?? Boyd Young suggested a longer series of flights thru the Utah scenic areas................?? The thought comes to mind - I think it was initiated by Erich Weaver - about flying to, or around Lee's Ferry. There're a couple of airstrips right in there. It'd make a pretty decent flight from M.V., or possibly base the group in Page, AZ., and do fly-outs from there. The scenery is spectacular, and I believe it's well away from the restricted areas around the Grand Canyon. Erich and his family also made a float trip from the Glen Canyon dam at Page, down to Lee's Ferry.............the same area I ran in my boat in Vacation 2002/Grand Canyon, on my website. I can't imagine anyone not enjoying THAT. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2004 > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > The Johns are heading for Alaska how about the rest of you? How about gathering some place and doing a mass Kolb fly in to Oshkosh next summer? > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:31 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: [PLEASE READ!] "What's my Contribution used for?" --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, A few Listers have asked me recently, "What's my Contribution used for?", and that's a valid question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides for the expensive, business-class, high-speed Internet connection used on the List, insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine and List Browser. It pays for 15+ years worth of on line archive data available for instant random access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, and Photoshare. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements about these days? I will venture to say - next to none... It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many desirable aspects of this most valuable List service. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its the best investment you can make in your Sport - BAR NONE! Email List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:32 AM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Kolb-List: weight and balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" Could someone on the list please tell me where the datum is, what the CG range is and what attitude to set my plane at to do a proper w/b? I checked my plans and assembly manual and could not find this maybe I am missing something. I have a Firestar I 5 rib with 377 Rotax. Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:02 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Was EIS effect on Compass, now GPS --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > But if another GPS offered a lot better features I'd want > to think about it. Are you still happy with yours? > Which one is it? Duncan/All: You will be a lot happier with any GPS that has the Jeppesen Data Base. Saves a lot of time by eliminating the search for GPS coordinates. Also good to have restricted areas, VORs, NDBs, terrain features and highways, to help you navigate. I guess any of them with a moving map have these capabilities. I saved my pennies and got a Garmin GPSMAP 196. After using a Garmin 55AVD and 95XL for 10 years, it was really nice learning to use the 196. It has many more capabilities, information, and a large moving map that updates instantly. The best price I found, after a long internet search, was at Aircraft Spruce. An added advantage of the 196 is its air, land, and sea capability. Get all three capabilities with one GPS. Does the same thing on land as my Garmin V, Map Source City Select. Finds addresses, facilities, and gives directions to them by roads and streets. I wear it on my left thigh, same as the other two, because there is no room left to mount it in the aircraft. Works good located on the left thigh. I can see it with my bifocals and operate with left or right hand. John Williamson flies with the Garmin Pilot. Check with him for his comments on its use. john h ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:50 AM PST US From: kuffel Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Legal question --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <> Unfortunately, in the real world none of this will give much protection. No-one, not even the first purchaser, can waive the rights of others to sue the builder, i.e. the mourning widow, the suffering children, etc. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar Awaiting his gold star for not joining the "what's wrong with our tort system" thread. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:29 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: building --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, Just for giggles, I added up my hours so far and was shocked at the total. Had the kit 79 days now and have worked 50 of those for a total of 80.7 hrs and the net is a complete tail section less the fly wires. I bought some pretty cool tools from Roger Kilby along with my engine to do the rigging. Also hit a light snag in the L brackets. The 3/16" x 1/4" wont tighten down all the way before they snap. Guess I will get some shorter ones. Built my sawhorses yesterday and are getting ready to start the wings. Having a ball here in south Mississippi! Paul Petty Building Kolbra 012/912UL "Miss. Dixie" do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:01 AM PST US From: ALEMBIC7@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 11/23/03 --> Kolb-List message posted by: ALEMBIC7@aol.com In a message dated 11/24/03 8:13:36 AM, kolb-list-digest@matronics.com writes: << Molt Taylor said the best way >> Your mention of Molt Taylor reminded me of a question I've been pondering...perhaps one or more of you can enlighten me...his air car never really "got off the ground" so to speak but I'm wondering about the landing characteristics of a plane with 4 wheels... AZ Lurker do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:51 AM PST US From: Charlie & Meredith Blackwell Subject: Kolb-List: Sleeping gear --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie & Meredith Blackwell After following the camping gear thread for a while I think you guys have made some great choices. I had been into hiking/mountaineering/climbing for many years and found that many of the items worked well for car camping and probably plane camping because of their light weight and small size. I would recommend a Z-Rest pad to be used with either the thermarest pad or the cot. The nylon cot compresses all the insulation on the bottom of the sleeping bag and makes for a cold bottom side. And the self inflating pads do occassionally get leaks at the worst times. The z-rest pad is foam that folds up and can be used as an extra back rest or rump pad in the plane. I use it as a passenger back rest in my MKII. Most new man-made fiber sleeping bags work well and while a pound heavier and slightly bulkier than down models, they are much cheaper to buy and easier to clean. I can drive to Campmor to buy items and have caught their great sales, but another option is the company Sierra Trading Post, which sells seconds and factory over-runs and last year's colors and such. www.sierratradingpost.com . A great new fabric is the Gore Windstopper. It is usually made into fleece or wool items and is great at stopping the wind without the scratchy noise of nylon wind jackets. The fleece gloves are much warmer than they look and the hats are excellent. I got a nice deal on a jacket and with the collar zippered up it keeps me nice and warm for most flights by stopping the wind from stealing my heat. Both MSR and Peak1 (coleman) make stoves that run on auto fuel, which is easier to get than white gas or propane. A single teflon pot can contain most stoves and give you a place to boil coffee or cook food. Metal cups and plates are great conductors and cool off your food or drink way too fast. Look at lexan or plastic eating gear instead. Some companies are marketing a personal ELT that sends your GPS location to rescuers. This is great for those of us flying without an ELT or want one to be used for other sports too. On another thread... maybe discussion of politics, lawyers, insurance companies, race and religion, or any number of personal topics should be reserved for bars when we meet in person. I regret joining in and trying to defend lawyers on this Kolb topic list. It was the wrong place. My way of making up for it to everyone is to donate another $5 to the list upkeep. It is the least I can do for wasting people's time and Matt's hard drive space with non related opinions. Charlie Blackwell, MKII 503, NJ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:19 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Casey" Subject: Kolb-List: Tort reform? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" So if I may reflect a second.You (the attorney) after reviewing the design "for a couple of days" was able to determine that it was poorly designed? (Stupid Randy.) Can we also mention the benefit of hindsight here? You even said something to the effect of "this plane was built back before we knew as much about 582 cold-seizure problems" or something to that effect. So I guess the point is should Randy be held responsible for building something that wasn't idiot proof? I know a guy that bought a 503 powered plane and was told the main "NO-NO's" of air-cooled 2 stroke flying and broke the golden rule on day 2 and fried the engine.should the guy that sold that plane to him and explained the rules and warned of the consequences be held responsible? Of course not!!! The guy broke the rules and broke his engine! I know when I bought my S7, RANS made me sign a big long agreement that said all kinds of stuff like "I understand that this is a dangerous activity and that this machine wasn't designed nor guaranteed by GOD to work flawlessly forever, and I signed the dotted line saying that I UNDERSTAND THAT AND AM WILLING TO TAKE THE RISK, CAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE A BOAT-LOAD OF FUN!!!" Sorry , my widow has no right to sue Randy if I get killed in a plane he designed.PERIOD. Jeremy Casey KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc. jrcasey@ldl.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:21 PM PST US From: Richard Pike Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Legal question --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike Maybe not, but the purchaser of my J-6 signed (as part of the hold harmless agreement) that if he turned around and sold it, and that some future suit chanced to come against the builder (me), that he would assume any and all legal responsibility for it. Richard Pike MKIII N420p (420ldPoops) At 09:51 AM 11/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel > ><more of the guarantee is giving the purchaser the oblication[sic] to >pass on the condition of the guarantee>> > >Unfortunately, in the real world none of this will give much >protection. No-one, not even the first purchaser, can waive the rights >of others to sue the builder, i.e. the mourning widow, the suffering >children, etc. > >Tom Kuffel >Whitefish, MT >Building Original FireStar > >do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:47 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tort reform? --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > You even said something to the effect of "this plane was built > back before we knew as much about 582 cold-seizure problems" or > something to that effect. > Jeremy Casey Jeremy/All: I meant to say something about "cold seizures" when this first was mentioned. In early 1991, 582's came without thermostats. Me being the stickler for making everything right obtained and installed a Rotax supplied thermostat. Remember it cost more than $20 for a thermostat that could be obtained for less than $5 locally. The engines ran fine and were more reliable without thermostats, although they ran on the cold side. I wanted mine to run warm enough to be efficient, 160 to 180F. Since the thermostat would do this without having to tape up the radiators to increase engine temps, I thought I was doing things right. Wrong! There was no provision for bypassing the thermostat when it was closed. When engine temps got to the point to open the thermostat, cold water from the radiators was dumped into the cooling system, rapidly cooling the cast iron cylinder liner. Pretty soon, I mean really soon!!! there was no place for the oil film between the piston and the cylinder wall, and you know the rest of the story. Didn't take but a split second for this to happen. The engine came to a stop like it had an engine brake installed. Mine happened as soon as I came from a full power take off and climb to cruise transition. When I came back on the throttle to cruise power, she seized. Easy to get cold seizure with the old thermostat setup. With no thermostat, highly unlikely to get a cold seizure, unless you cranked a cold engine, immediately went to take off power, and took off. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:12 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Casey" Subject: Kolb-List: Tort reform... --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jeremy Casey" And like I tell my good Friend , Mr. Benton (jr) of Benton&Benton attorneys at law. "Bud, I'm glad your not part of that 99% that gives the other 1% a bad name." I'm done with the lawyer jokes, back to your planes.weather is clearing up!!! (And don't get dead.the paper work would be horrible.) Jeremy Casey KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc. jrcasey@ldl.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:14 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass? --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Compass, don't need no stinking compass. I have two planes with EIS's and haven't seen any interference problem between the EIS and the compass. I don't think you'll have to worry to much about it. jerb At 08:39 AM 11/23/03 -0800, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" > >I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on the Firestar and I'd >like to know if an EIS box has any effect on a compass when it's turned >on. The altimeter will go between them, but on that miniature panel there >isn't enough room to get it very far away. >Terry Davis Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90% done, 90% left > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:37 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" Will, We always love your photos, but this time of year Linda says they are like rubbing salt in an open wound, they really drive home how crappy things get around here! Take Care, Dennis Rowe do not archive > Greetings, > I don't remember ever using my compass. I installed it because it is required > equipment but I don't even look at it. > I installed the airspeed indicator between the compass and the EIS for the > same reasons you are installing the altimeter between them. My EIS comes with > the altimeter and VIS read outs so I didn't need extra gauges. > > Here are some picture of my FireStar panel. > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Gallup.jpg > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/MonumentV.jpg > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Visalia.jpg > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Siskiyou.jpg > http://gtalexander.home.att.net/images/pic09.jpg > http://gtalexander.home.att.net/images/pic16.jpg > > Regards, > Will Uribe > El Paso, TX > FireStar II N4GU > C-172 N2506U > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ > do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:40 PM PST US From: "Guy Morgan" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EIS effect on Compass? --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Guy Morgan" You would need a "master compass," then you could do a compass swing. You can also use a compass rose. Here's a document detailing how to do it. http://www.campbells.org/Airplanes/CompassSwing.doc By doing a compass swing with engine running and all instruments on, you compensate for any error induced by said engine/instruments. Guy Morgan --Eat one live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day. -- Kolb-List message posted by: "Terry Davis" I'm getting ready to make up the instrument panel on the Firestar and I'd like to know if an EIS box has any effect on a compass when it's turned on. The altimeter will go between them, but on that miniature panel there isn't enough room to get it very far away. Terry Davis Eastern Oregon, FS2 (for one), 90% done, 90% left Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home entertainment equipment, video game reviews, and more here. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:36 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: weight and balance --> Kolb-List message posted by: possums At 09:32 AM 11/24/2003, you wrote: > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:38 PM PST US From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2004 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" Guys, I'm game for anywhere in the SouthWest. Say when and where. I plan on a return trip to MV this year, but don't know when. AzDave Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2004 > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" > > It's well known that OSH isn't my cuppa tea, but that's a good idea for > many. We should also be churning up something on the order of last years' > Monument Valley fly-in for those of us who won't be doing the Alaska flight. > Personally, I'm divided - I thoroughly enjoyed last years' trip, and > wouldn't at all mind doing it again. Any others feel like that ?? I also > wouldn't mind if the vote goes to somewhere else, for variety............but > not Jackpot.............puh-leeze. Any thoughts from interested people out > there ?? Boyd Young suggested a longer series of flights thru the Utah > scenic areas................?? The thought comes to mind - I think it was > initiated by Erich Weaver - about flying to, or around Lee's Ferry. > There're a couple of airstrips right in there. It'd make a pretty decent > flight from M.V., or possibly base the group in Page, AZ., and do fly-outs > from there. The scenery is spectacular, and I believe it's well away from > the restricted areas around the Grand Canyon. Erich and his family also > made a float trip from the Glen Canyon dam at Page, down to Lee's > Ferry.............the same area I ran in my boat in Vacation 2002/Grand > Canyon, on my website. I can't imagine anyone not enjoying THAT. > Lar. Do not Archive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, CA > Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB > www.gogittum.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2004 > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > > > > The Johns are heading for Alaska how about the rest of you? How about > gathering some place and doing a mass Kolb fly in to Oshkosh next summer? > > > > Rick Neilsen > > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:31 PM PST US From: kuffel Subject: Kolb-List: Molt Taylor's Aerocar Landing Characteristics --> Kolb-List message posted by: kuffel <> According to Molt, takeoffs and landings were quite normal. No special techniques were needed as sometimes required by amphibious floats (the most common 4 wheel landing gear). When you think about it, the Aerocar was really just a double nose dragger with the center of gravity ahead of the 2 wheels which touch down first. The propeller in back also provided substantial extra stability at idle. Do Not Archive Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar