---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/27/03: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:52 AM - Re: Which filter is best.....? (dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford)) 2. 05:40 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2004 (Dave Rains) 3. 06:26 AM - Homers Bumps (Paul Petty) 4. 06:49 AM - Re: aileron question (Eugene Zimmerman) 5. 06:49 AM - Re: Homers Bumps (Duncan McBride) 6. 07:06 AM - Re: 912 engine oil, filters and oil analysis (jerb) 7. 07:07 AM - Re: Homers Bumps (CRAIG M NELSON) 8. 07:25 AM - HKS engine (Kirk Smith) 9. 07:51 AM - Re: HKS engine (Earl & Mim Zimmerman) 10. 07:57 AM - Oil filters (Bill Vincent) 11. 08:07 AM - Re: 912 engine oil, filters and oil analysis (John Hauck) 12. 08:13 AM - Re: Oil filters (John Hauck) 13. 08:13 AM - Re: HKS engine (herbgh@juno.com) 14. 08:40 AM - Re: SEND MONEY! - List Fund Raising (jerb) 15. 11:54 AM - Re: Re:facility at page (CaptainRon) 16. 12:20 PM - Re: SEND MONEY! - List Fund Raising (CaptainRon) 17. 02:18 PM - Re: Re:facility at page (John Hauck) 18. 03:54 PM - Spring Steel Gear Legs (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 19. 07:50 PM - filters (Paul Petty) 20. 08:46 PM - tip's (Paul Petty) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:02 AM PST US From: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford) Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Which filter is best.....? message of Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:56:30 -0800 --> Kolb-List message posted by: dixieshack@webtv.net (Mike and Dixie Shackelford) Got a suggestion, guys....maybe an answer to two recent lines. Pick your favorite filter and cut it apart. Next time, pick another brand and do the same thing, new or used..doesn't matter. Now, based on what you see as to filter medium and interior construction, pick the one you want to trust your engine to. When we bought our new Suby a couple years back, I went to the dealer to buy a supply of OEM filters. Right on the filter canniser..."Purolator, made in USA" I bought ONE and took it home and cut it apart. Looked pretty good inside. Bought a Pure One (Purolator) and cut it apart...much more filter medium, denser, and better made inside....worth the extra three bucks a pop...IMHO anyways. A good filter and frequent oil changes is the life of any engine. Mike in WV do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:51 AM PST US From: Dave Rains Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Monument Valley 2004 --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dave Rains Right! As I recall, we had to insert ourselves into the traffic, and then taxi through the jet traffic to parking. Must be the tourist coming/going to Lake Powell. I vote MV also, was quiet with good facilities. Dave. -----Original Message----- From: WillUribe@aol.com [SMTP:WillUribe@aol.com] Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley 2004 --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com Greetings. I have flow into Page in my FireStar. I think Page has too many commuter airlines flying in and out for my comfort. My vote is for Monument Valley. Regards, Will Uribe do not archive In a message dated 11/26/2003 8:12:54 PM Mountain Standard Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: The question is: Can we be as comfortable at Page Airport, or some airport in the general vicinity of the town of Page, as we were at Gouldings? You can, I am sure, in your slide out camper. But us travelers, by air, from afar, have many needs that need to be taken into consideration. The most important, of which, is comfort, convenience, then survival and all the other stuff................ john h ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:34 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, Last night while preparing to start wing construction a thought hit me. (scary concept I know) However here it goes.... During my control surface construction I chose the "radius" method to eliminate the bumps on the trailing edges. Why not use small square gussets on the leading edges instead of the way the plans call for. I made up one out of scrap and used four rivets. Two on the leading edge and two on the rib. Looks real nice! But is it as strong? Looks stronger. More work but hey, whole lot cleaner looking. It's a wet and soggy Thanksgiving day here in swap land. Chief cook and bottle washer is in Florida.So I guess it's off to the shop for a whole day of building! Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Paul Petty Building King Kolbra/912UL and oh! a warp thanks to John Hauck! Miss. Dixie do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:58 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aileron question --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman bryan green wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "bryan green" > > Bryan Green (Elgin SC) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eugene Zimmerman" > To: "Kolb list" > Subject: Kolb-List: aileron question > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman > > > > > > > All: > > > > I checked my plans and plane the long tube is on the bottom with the Homer > bumps on the bottom of the trailing edge same for the elevators. Thank You Brian, Happy Thanksgiving to all in Kolb land. Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:58 AM PST US From: "Duncan McBride" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" I used gussets at the trailing edge of the surfaces. If I was doing it again I'd do it as in the original plans. It's plenty strong, light, and the bumps are distinctive. Ain't nothing going to turn it into a Lancair.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" > > Kolbers, > Last night while preparing to start wing construction a thought hit me. (scary concept I know) However here it goes.... During my control surface construction I chose the "radius" method to eliminate the bumps on the trailing edges. Why not use small square gussets on the leading edges instead of the way the plans call for. I made up one out of scrap and used four rivets. Two on the leading edge and two on the rib. Looks real nice! But is it as strong? Looks stronger. More work but hey, whole lot cleaner looking. > > It's a wet and soggy Thanksgiving day here in swap land. Chief cook and bottle washer is in Florida.So I guess it's off to the shop for a whole day of building! > > Happy Thanksgiving everyone. > > Paul Petty > Building King Kolbra/912UL and oh! a warp thanks to John Hauck! > Miss. Dixie > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:22 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912 engine oil, filters and oil analysis --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Obviously still not flying enough John. In the 912 do you use synthetic oil? A motor glider who has a 912 commented that he runs auto gas as much as possible but if he has to use av gas as there is a problem where the synthetic will not suspend the lead like normal oil? Know anything about this? jerb do not archive At 02:54 PM 11/26/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > Today's technology is great. I have more than 275,000 miles > > on my Dodge/Cummins. > >Hi Gang: > >Forgot to mention in my previous post, the 275,000+ miles >equates to approximately 4,500 hours with zero failures. >Not bad on dinosaur fat. :-) > >john h > >DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:12 AM PST US From: "CRAIG M NELSON" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" Paul; This is the fun of building a kit airplane, you can put a little of yourself into the project. Milow Tim and I did away with the Holmer bumps altogether. we made formed ribs with a brake of 2024 sheet like conventional aircraft. they are lighter no bumps and stronger. Happy TTTTT!!! day! Uncle Craig MKIIIex192uls Arizona do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Petty Subject: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" instead of the way the plans call for. I made up one out of scrap and used four rivets. Two on the leading edge and two on the rib. Looks real nice! But is it as strong? Looks stronger. More work but hey, whole lot cleaner looking. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:28 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Anybody heard anything much about the HKS engine, good or bad? Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:54 AM PST US From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman Kirk Smith wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > > Anybody heard anything much about the HKS engine, good or bad? Kirk > > Do not archive I just heard a rumor that they are going to come out with a 100 hp four cylinder. -- Earl ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:41 AM PST US From: Bill Vincent Subject: Kolb-List: Oil filters --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent My 2 cents worth: Last year I bought a 1987 Toyota, it had 28,000 miles. I was in the process of changing my oil and filter when my neighbor, who has been a Toyota mechanic for 35 years, stopped over. He advised me that I should either us the "original" Toyota brand filter or a Wix filter because they have an anti-drainback valve; he said over the the years he has seen too many engines damaged from people using cheap filters. I think the NAPA Gold filter may be a Wix brand. Bill Vincent Firestar II Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:06 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912 engine oil, filters and oil analysis --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Jerb/All: Happy Thanksgiving everybody! Wet and nasty in Alabama this morning. > Obviously still not flying enough John. Probably not. Don't have time to fly all the time. In the 912 do you > use synthetic oil? I have used Mobil I exclusively in 912/912S, except the last 100 hours on the 912S ran Shell Rotella T full synthetic. A motor glider who has a 912 > commented that he runs auto gas as much as possible but > if he has to use av gas as there is a problem where the > synthetic will not suspend the lead like normal oil? The 912/912S were designed to run on auto fuel and auto oil. I do the same thing, however, on cross country flights it is difficult to get auto fuel and I run 100LL. Eric Tucker told me to run Alcor TCP when I run 100LL. I do. Change oil often cause the synthetic does not hold the lead in suspension like dino oil does. Inspection of valve covers, rocker arms, oil tank, and gear box indicted no lead deposits or contamination in my 912 or 912S. john h ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:30 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oil filters --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck Bill/Gang: > He advised me > that I should either us the "original" Toyota brand filter or a Wix > filter because they have an anti-drainback valve; he said over the the > years he has seen too many engines damaged from people using cheap > filters. The Fram "DG" filters have silicone seals and anti-siphon valve. I could tell the difference between the two. The DG keeps the oil in the tank from leaking down into the crankcase during prolonged shutdown. > I think the NAPA Gold filter may be a Wix brand. Me too. john h ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS engine From: herbgh@juno.com --> Kolb-List message posted by: herbgh@juno.com Group Chatting with a trike flyer in Ky this past season; He told me that when they(HKS) had early teething problems, they gave loaner engines to those affected. I think that he was still flying on the loaner even though the problem was fixed. Now--what other company would do that?? Herb in Ky Ps: motorcycle heritage I think! :-) On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:50:24 -0500 Earl & Mim Zimmerman writes: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Earl & Mim Zimmerman > > > Kirk Smith wrote: > > > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > > > > Anybody heard anything much about the HKS engine, good or bad? > Kirk > > > > Do not archive > > I just heard a rumor that they are going to come out with a 100 hp > four > cylinder. > -- > Earl > > > > _-> = > = > = > = > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:25 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: SEND MONEY! - List Fund Raising --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb I agree there hasn't been much dialog this year by list members encouraging contributions to Matt to help offset the cost of operating the list. This is one place you get and see some benefit for your donation. Even though times have been hard for me the last two years, I again this year managed to scrap up some cash to help support the list. I challenge others to do the same. I hear people on yahoo group list complain about pop adds and viruses. How can Matt provide the quality service he does without selling to advertisers. He can't, it's only through our contributions that help offset the cost for the internet connectivity and computer equipment and hopefully, a little left over for him as a reward for his effort. Let's all do the right thing and support this very valuable resource. Make that contribution today. Thanks Jerry Bidle - jerb At 07:25 PM 11/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" > >Without going through all the reasonable arguments, JUST SEND MONEY! WHAT >ARE YOU, CRAZY? You belong to EAA, or AOPA, or USUA, or AARP, for crying >out loud, what do you get from them that is worth a tenth of what you get >here? Send in some money. Sign up for paypal, join the 21st century, and >send the man 20 bucks. At least. If you even scan the headers for >something remotely related to your stage of construction, send in at least >20 bucks. Jeez. Do it. Now. > >Now. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Terry Watson" >To: >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Last minute... > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > > > > > > > I just posted this on the RV list and I didn't want any Aeroelectric list > > members who do not subscribe to the RV list to get away without having to > > see it ... > > > > Last minute > > > > It seems that in years past there has been more mention and discussion of > > the annual contribution drive than this year. I have no Idea how Matt is > > doing this year but I wanted to remind some of you who might not have >gotten > > around to it yet just what we get out of his lists, or at least what I get > > out of them: > > > > With a few minutes at the keyboard you can get attention to your question >or > > problem by some real experts on the subject who somehow all seem to be >true > > gentlemen too. Over the years I have developed a deep respect for any > > comments or answers posted by Eustace Bowhay or Doug Rozendaal or Kevin > > Horton or Robert Nuckolls (Aeroelectric List) or Pat Hatch or Randy Levold > > or Sam Buchanon (smiley face here) or maybe a dozen others who always seem > > to have been there and done that, or maybe wrote the book about it or >taught > > the class in it or maintain a website on it. Sometimes it takes a long >time > > to really appreciate the depth of knowledge of these guys, individually >and > > collectively. They never tell you that they wrote the book; they just >give > > you a courteous and detailed answer to your question. After awhile you >begin > > to realize what an extraordinary place we are in history where we can get > > such detailed answers to our questions from experts literally around the > > world. > > > > Matt's lists make it possible. We need to make sure he keeps on doing it. > > Send him some money. > > > > Terry Watson > > 6th year on an RV-8A; wires everywhere > > Seattle > > > > P.S. Don't miss Doug Rozendaal's article on "Surviving Engine Out in IMC" > > in the December issue of IFR magazine, even if you don't fly IFR > > > > Do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:29 AM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:facility at page --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Geez of all the places I have been to I gotta be asked about one I have not. :-) Looking at the map it looks good to me. I will make it with the Sierra if the M3X isn't done. Looks pretty nice on the map. But off hand I don't remember being there. I can add that I like water (who wouldn't after 20 years in a middle of a desert) so Page is ok with me. :-) ============================ --- CRAIG M NELSON wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Hauck > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley 2004 > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > > GANG: Page is a great idea for non flyers and give > them > > What kind of facility do they have at Page that > would > compare to the facility at Gouldings, Monument > Valley? > > John &Gang > page has an air strip I need to check on what's > there I know fuel is not a problem. and it's close > to town and the lake. I think cap. Ron might be able > to tell us about the airport. I'm sure there are > plenty a Kolb builder that would be willing to give > ground support I know of two builders that would > come. and I'm sure there is plenty of squat room to > spread out tell lies and have lots of fun. there > just isn't much for greenery there. but the rock > formations and the lake!!!!!! > uncle Craig > MKIIIex912uls > Arizona > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:08 PM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: SEND MONEY! - List Fund Raising --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon I agree I already sent my contribution to Matt. 30 bucks aint gonna put a big dent into anyones pocket. This list is priceless for the help/info we get here. do not archive ============================= --- jerb wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb > > > I agree there hasn't been much dialog this year by > list members encouraging > contributions to Matt to help offset the cost of > operating the list. This > is one place you get and see some benefit for your > donation. Even though > times have been hard for me the last two years, I > again this year managed > to scrap up some cash to help support the list. I > challenge others to do > the same. I hear people on yahoo group list > complain about pop adds and > viruses. How can Matt provide the quality service > he does without selling > to advertisers. He can't, it's only through our > contributions that help > offset the cost for the internet connectivity and > computer equipment and > hopefully, a little left over for him as a reward > for his effort. Let's > all do the right thing and support this very > valuable resource. Make that > contribution today. Thanks > Jerry Bidle - jerb > > At 07:25 PM 11/26/03 -0500, you wrote: > >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" > > > > >Without going through all the reasonable arguments, > JUST SEND MONEY! WHAT > >ARE YOU, CRAZY? You belong to EAA, or AOPA, or > USUA, or AARP, for crying > >out loud, what do you get from them that is worth a > tenth of what you get > >here? Send in some money. Sign up for paypal, > join the 21st century, and > >send the man 20 bucks. At least. If you even scan > the headers for > >something remotely related to your stage of > construction, send in at least > >20 bucks. Jeez. Do it. Now. > > > >Now. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Terry Watson" > >To: > >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Last minute... > > > > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry > Watson" > > > > > > > > > > > I just posted this on the RV list and I didn't > want any Aeroelectric list > > > members who do not subscribe to the RV list to > get away without having to > > > see it ... > > > > > > Last minute > > > > > > It seems that in years past there has been more > mention and discussion of > > > the annual contribution drive than this year. I > have no Idea how Matt is > > > doing this year but I wanted to remind some of > you who might not have > >gotten > > > around to it yet just what we get out of his > lists, or at least what I get > > > out of them: > > > > > > With a few minutes at the keyboard you can get > attention to your question > >or > > > problem by some real experts on the subject who > somehow all seem to be > >true > > > gentlemen too. Over the years I have developed > a deep respect for any > > > comments or answers posted by Eustace Bowhay or > Doug Rozendaal or Kevin > > > Horton or Robert Nuckolls (Aeroelectric List) or > Pat Hatch or Randy Levold > > > or Sam Buchanon (smiley face here) or maybe a > dozen others who always seem > > > to have been there and done that, or maybe wrote > the book about it or > >taught > > > the class in it or maintain a website on it. > Sometimes it takes a long > >time > > > to really appreciate the depth of knowledge of > these guys, individually > >and > > > collectively. They never tell you that they > wrote the book; they just > >give > > > you a courteous and detailed answer to your > question. After awhile you > >begin > > > to realize what an extraordinary place we are in > history where we can get > > > such detailed answers to our questions from > experts literally around the > > > world. > > > > > > Matt's lists make it possible. We need to make > sure he keeps on doing it. > > > Send him some money. > > > > > > Terry Watson > > > 6th year on an RV-8A; wires everywhere > > > Seattle > > > > > > P.S. Don't miss Doug Rozendaal's article on > "Surviving Engine Out in IMC" > > > in the December issue of IFR magazine, even if > you don't fly IFR > > > > > > Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:19 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:facility at page --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Looks pretty > nice on the map. But off hand I don't remember being > there. > I can add that I like water (who wouldn't after 20 > years in a middle of a desert) so Page is ok with me. > :-) Ron/All: I think there is a little more to site selection than a cursory look at a map. :-( john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:02 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Spring Steel Gear Legs --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" I just got my new spring steel gear legs installed in my VW powered MKIII. These are the optional gear legs that the New Kolb sells now for $400+. Thanks to Bill George who sold them to me slightly used at a bargain price. My plane sits approximately an inch higher and has a 4 inch wider track. I only have one flight under my belt with the new gear but they give me a much smoother ride on my sod strip with little of the cable slap that I normally hear and the landing is much more cushioned. Bill seemed to think they were too springy but they are like the gear that were on the Kolb demonstrator (Fat Albert) and they were just right. The gear are 2.5 inches longer outside the cage sockets than the aluminum legs but 6 inches shorter inside the socket. The Old Kolb made the gear legs just like these but then welded a 6 inch 4130 tube to the socket end to better spread the landing loads. I'm concerned that the landing loads are concentrated so much closer to the end of the landing gear sockets. Yet it would take a really bad landing to transmit as much stress on the gear sockets as the aluminum gear legs because the steel gear are so springy. I wonder if it would be possible to weld a pipe on the socket end like the Old Kolb did without effecting the spring in the steel. I suppose I could put a sleeve inside the gear sockets and grind the knob on the socket end so that it fits into the sleeve. For now I'm happy with the gear but wouldn't recommend the gear at their full price. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:38 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: filters --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, Yes Wix makes the NAPA Gold Filters. Dunu who makes the silver line but will check............ Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp driven do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:52 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Kolb-List: tip's --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Kolbers, Perhaps it's just the Kolbra plans, but after a day of building and talking via phone line to others, maybe we could create a thread about building tip's. One where future builder's could search the archives buy typing "Tip's" if you will. Not knocking Kolb, however, there is a lot of things that they left unmentioned........ Things like "dip them 3/16" rivets in oil before snapping, or like "Hey that tail post may be a really tight fit and it may require machining" It's the little thing's that I have to ask as a first time builder that would have come in handy had I had this wonderful source of information.... Tip's like gluing the saw horses to the floor. The Laser Level was a sweet find... This list has provided me with great info and the archives have been helpful but building "tip's" from factory folks and you guy's are the only thing that has kept me from bailing out and going "GA" ben a long day........... Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp driven do not archive ps.. thanks Matt