---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/29/03: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:03 AM - Re: Transparent Fuel Tubing (jerb) 2. 01:15 AM - Re: tip's - Why drip 3/16" rivets/CherryMax (jerb) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: tip's - Why drip 3/16" rivets/CherryMax (John Hauck) 4. 05:42 AM - Re: Transparent Fuel Tubing (John Hauck) 5. 06:42 AM - early FS minimum weight (Thom Riddle) 6. 07:03 AM - Re: HKS engine (Olenik Aviation) 7. 07:15 AM - Re: HKS engine (John Hauck) 8. 07:21 AM - Re: early FS minimum weight (Dennis Souder) 9. 07:30 AM - Re: Transparent Fuel Tubing (jerb) 10. 07:49 AM - Re: HKS engine (Kirk Smith) 11. 08:14 AM - Re: HKS engine (John Hauck) 12. 08:30 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 11/28/03 (Vic) 13. 08:40 AM - : Re: Homers Bumps (boyd young) 14. 09:20 AM - Re: HKS (WillUribe@aol.com) 15. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Homers Bumps (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 16. 10:38 AM - Re: : Re: Homers Bumps (John Hauck) 17. 10:57 AM - Re: Transparent Fuel Tubing (Denny Rowe) 18. 12:15 PM - Please Support Your Email Lists... (Matt Dralle) 19. 01:00 PM - HKS engine (Kirk Smith) 20. 04:57 PM - Re: Transparent Fuel Tubing (CaptainRon) 21. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: Homers Bumps (CRAIG M NELSON) 22. 05:04 PM - Airworthiness Certificate!! (Mark German) 23. 05:22 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate!! (John Hauck) 24. 05:26 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate!! (CaptainRon) 25. 05:32 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate!! (Paul Petty) 26. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Homers Bumps (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 27. 06:21 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate!! (John Williamson) 28. 06:25 PM - Re: Spring Steel Gear Legs (Eugene Zimmerman) 29. 09:31 PM - Re: Airworthiness Certificate!! (Larry Bourne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:53 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Transparent Fuel Tubing --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb I think you'll find it all discolors to some extent due to chemical contents of the fuel and oil. I use Bing blue tubing, so far it has stayed soft and blue/green. Its sold by Aircraft Spruce. Note there is some other brand blue tubing sold, make sure you get Bing brand tubing, its alcohol resistant. You don't want to use a tubing that gets hard as it can crack and break. I previously tried the Tygon tubing Lockwood sells, it suddenly hardened up after a particular one tank of fuel. Think I might had gotten some gas with alcohol in it. So far the Bing tubing has stayed soft. jerb At 06:31 PM 11/28/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: "G. T. Alexander, Jr." > >Poops et al: >I know it may be overkill for some, but I use the heavy duty (pulse line) >for ALL my fuel lines. It "yellows" a bit over time, but doesn't discolor >to a point where you can't see the fuel level. Plus don't give it a thought >about collapsing. I change it out periodically anyway. The price >difference of a few dollars is well worth it to me. >George Alexander >Original Firestar >http://gtalexander.home.att.net > > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > >-----Original Message----- >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike > >.................. >Can anyone recommend any 1/4" and 5/16" fuel line tubing that does not >discolor? .................... > >-----End of Original Message----- > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:10 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: tip's - Why drip 3/16" rivets/CherryMax --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb You can get a pneumatic air rivet puller from Harbor Freight or Northern Tool for $50 or less, that's not much money today compared to what we pay for Rotax parts and gaskets. I had a few blind rivets where the mandrel breaks about half way down the length of the mandrel. There it is with half of the mandrel sticking out - on these you can't drive it through - cut if off with a Dremel tool. Sure is a bear drilling them out with steel mandrel and soft aluminum body. jerb At 07:30 PM 11/28/03 -0500, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bob Noyer > >I have pulled several hundred CM rivets with common Craftsman pop puller. >It'll last about maybe a 100, then back to the store. My cow-milking days >more than 70 yrs ago was good training. I've seen the pneumatic pullers, and >they are fine for production or big shops with lots of sheet metal repairs, >BUTT too much money. > >As for the the common AL pops breaking--most likely too short grip length. > >Bob N. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:51 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: tip's - Why drip 3/16" rivets/CherryMax --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > can't drive it through - cut if off with a Dremel tool. > Sure is a bear drilling them out with steel mandrel and > soft aluminum body. jerb Jerb/All: It took me a while, but I learned not to attempt to drill out any kind of pop rivet with a "hardened" steel mandrel. As soon as that little 1/8" bit hits the mandrel, it is ruined. I have posted several times the method I use to remove pop rivets. Every pop rivet except aluminum with aluminum mandrel, I use a pulled mandrel, held with small vise grips, to knock out the steel mandrel. Once the steel mandrel is out, the job of drilling out the rivet is much easier. Not easy, sometimes, but easier. Many times the head of the pop rivet will rotate with the drill bit. In that case, I made a tool out of a piece of hack saw blade. Ground a "V" into one end with edge on one side only. Hold the "V" snug against and under the edge of the lip of the cap of the rivet. This will keep it from spinning, most of the time. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:21 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Transparent Fuel Tubing --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > I previously tried the > Tygon tubing Lockwood sells, it suddenly hardened up > after a particular one tank of fuel. jerb Jerb/All: My only use of Tygon tubing is for my fuel sight gauge mounted on the bulkhead behind the left seat. It is configured in a straight line. In time it does like yours did, stains a little and gets hard. However, it does not have a tendency to break once hardened. I used to use it for fuel line. Also used the blue urethane and most of the other transparent tubing. However, I discovered the transparent tubing did not last long, had a tendency to look serviceable, yet fail with the tough of the hand. Switched over to Gates premium neoprene fuel line, black in color, many years ago. Have not had a fuel line related problem since. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:02 AM PST US From: "Thom Riddle" Subject: Kolb-List: early FS minimum weight --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" I was wondering if anyone has ever been able to reduce the weight of an early FireStar down to the Part 103 legal limit of 254#. My guess is it might take replacing the 377 with a lighter engine, if such a thing is available. Thanks for any input or ideas. Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:52 AM PST US From: "Olenik Aviation" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Olenik Aviation" Anyone who says that the HKS is only a 503 in peformance has not set it up properly. Set up properly, it will be just a little less than a 582 in climb and as good or better than a 582 in cruise.... set up properly that is. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation. Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell...... -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joe Allman Subject: RE: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Joe Allman" Lurker here: Seems like I read in the archives that Kolb tried an HKS on a slingshot. Best I remember they said it performed like a 503. Joe -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kirk Smith Subject: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" Anybody heard anything much about the HKS engine, good or bad? Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:14 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Anyone who says that the HKS is only a 503 in peformance > has not set it up properly. Set up properly, it will be > just a little less than a 582 in climb and as good or > better than a 582 in cruise.... set up properly that is. > > Tom Olenik Tom/All: What aircraft are you referring to? How do we go about setting up the HKS properly? Maybe you can explain the test parameters a little also. Thanks, john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:16 AM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: early FS minimum weight --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Souder" Hi Thom, You are correct, it would take a lighter engine. As I recall the minimum weight of a FS would be in the 270 lb range. I know some early FSs have been reported at being at less than 254 with a Rotax 377, but probably this would have been due to scale variations. We did a FS with a 277 and it flew very nicely, I did some accurate speed checks and it had a top speed of 63 mph. (Standard FS with 377 / 477 was right at 70 mph.) These were measure by stop watch over a measured distance which I found to me a very accurate method of speed measurement. There has been a lot of development of lightweight engine packages in the world of powered parachutes, so you might want to look at what would be available there. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" Subject: Kolb-List: early FS minimum weight > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" > > I was wondering if anyone has ever been able to reduce the weight of an early FireStar down to the Part 103 legal limit of 254#. My guess is it might take replacing the 377 with a lighter engine, if such a thing is available. Thanks for any input or ideas. > > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:51 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Transparent Fuel Tubing --> Kolb-List message posted by: jerb Gee John, Don't let Gates know your using it or they will come and strip it off your "airboat" and invoke some form of penalty against the outlet that sold it to you. There a big difference between blue stuff and Bing blue stuff. Don't know what was in the fuel but suddenly one or tanks and the Tygon shrank and got very stiff. So far the Bing stuff and been doing very well and am pleased with it. Your no longer running premix so that may make some difference. There is something about the gas and oil combination that can do some thing to some of auto fuel lines. They use something more oil resistant on two stroke boat motors. When Pennzoil presented at a local area UL safety seminar, they commented on this and brought attention to this fact. jerb At 07:42 AM 11/29/03 -0600, you wrote: >--> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > > > > I previously tried the > > Tygon tubing Lockwood sells, it suddenly hardened up > > after a particular one tank of fuel. jerb > >Jerb/All: > >My only use of Tygon tubing is for my fuel sight gauge >mounted on the bulkhead behind the left seat. It is >configured in a straight line. > >In time it does like yours did, stains a little and gets >hard. However, it does not have a tendency to break once >hardened. > >I used to use it for fuel line. Also used the blue urethane >and most of the other transparent tubing. However, I >discovered the transparent tubing did not last long, had a >tendency to look serviceable, yet fail with the tough of the >hand. Switched over to Gates premium neoprene fuel line, >black in color, many years ago. Have not had a fuel line >related problem since. > >Take care, > >john h > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:54 AM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" > Tom/All: > > What aircraft are you referring to? > > How do we go about setting up the HKS properly? > > Maybe you can explain the test parameters a little also. I'd like to know that also. An interesting engine. Would love to see one set up correctly and on a Kolb Mark 3....... Slippin and sliden in the Great lakes..........Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:15 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > Would > love to see one set up correctly and on a Kolb Mark > 3....... Slippin and sliden in the Great > lakes..........Kirk Kirk/Gang: I'd also like to see that. May take more than proper "set up" to make a MK III perform as desired, most especially with floats. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:39 AM PST US From: "Vic" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 11/28/03 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Vic" Tygon tubing is uaually available at suppliers for oil-field and other outdoor equipment users. If you live in oil-field country, try your auto parts store. Vic ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:27 AM PST US From: "boyd young" Subject: : Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" I'm not a structural engineer but I would be very careful eliminating the bumps from the leading edges. There can be allot of torque on that connection to the control surfaces. It would seem that if it was strong enough they would suggest it as a option like they do on the trailing edge. I'm not a structural engineer either but i would look at the problem this way. the bumps on the front of the control surface is mounted with a single rivit... the sheer line is the outside surface of the control tube. if you put in a gusset with 2 rivits to the control tube and 2 rivits to the rib, the sheer line would be in the same location and with 2 rivits in each member it would seem to me that the joint would be stronger. it would probably be very slightly heaver... but ever so slightly... i would probably set up a test and try to bend, wiggle, pull, push, rotate,and see which joint stays put better..... i used the radius rib on the trailing edge and wish i had experimented with the gusset on the front of the control surfaces. I believe it wouod have looked better and been easier to cover. boyd ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:45 AM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS --> Kolb-List message posted by: WillUribe@aol.com Greetings, Bill, Check the archives. There is a report by Dennis installing an HKS engine on a Slingshot. Message number 3757 Date Mar 12, 1998 Subject is HKS evaluation. Regards, Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ --> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Vincent Bob Do they use the HKS as a pusher ? Will it work on the back of a firestar II ? Bill Vincent Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:49 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" The leading edge of all the Kolb control surfaces are torque tubes. The ribs are attached to this torque tube and transit control forces primarily thru pushing and pulling. The placement of rib on the side of the leading edge increases the length of the lever arm for transmitting these control forces. When you use gussets you in effect shorten the lever arm so the gusset has to transmit more force to do the same amount of work. The gusset would have to be a much stronger to carry this load and since it doesn't have the profile of the rib it might be more prone to flexing and later fatigue cracking. I agree it would look much better and be easer to cover but........ I highly recommend you test very carefully as a failure of a control surface in flight will ruin you day. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "boyd young" Subject: : Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd young" > > > I'm not a structural engineer but I would be very careful eliminating the > bumps from the leading edges. There can be allot of torque on that > connection to the control surfaces. It would seem that if it was strong > enough they would suggest it as a option like they do on the trailing edge. > > > I'm not a structural engineer either but i would look at the problem this way. > > the bumps on the front of the control surface is mounted with a single rivit... the sheer line is the outside surface of the control tube. if you put in a gusset with 2 rivits to the control tube and 2 rivits to the rib, the sheer line would be in the same location and with 2 rivits in each member it would seem to me that the joint would be stronger. it would probably be very slightly heaver... but ever so slightly... i would probably set up a test and try to bend, wiggle, pull, push, rotate,and see which joint stays put better..... i used the radius rib on the trailing edge and wish i had experimented with the gusset on the front of the control surfaces. I believe it wouod have looked better and been easier to cover. > > boyd ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:05 AM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: : Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > I believe it wouod have looked better and been > easier to cover. > > boyd Hi Boyd/All: I built my ailerons, flaps, elevators, and rudder, like Homer designed them. Here is the way I see it. The single rivet in the leading end of the rib tube holds the part together until it gets the fabric, heat and dope. Then a tremendous amount of pressure is holding this whole thing together. Maybe I can explain better how strong the single rivet and fabric combination are. The outboard rib of the aileron has a single rivet holding the forward edge of the rib. I, for one, install the aileron counter balance weights after the wing and ailerons are finished painting. I cut out the fabric on the inside of the outboard end of the leading edge of the aileron to slide the counter balance body in. But I can't until I remove the portion of the pop rivet that protrudes down into the inside of the leading edge tube. Get out the die grinder and a carbide burr. Carefully grind the protruding portion of the rivet off flush with the inside of the leading edge tube. I have to do this to the top and bottom outboard aileron rib tubes. Only thing holding the ribs on now is the little bit of rivet sticking into the tube, about .032 or .035". I have been flying this way for many years with no signs of weakening or possible failure. I personally do not think the bumps are ugly. They are a part of the aerodynamics and character of Kolb airplanes. Sometimes, if you get a chance, ask Homer or Dennis what the purpose of the bumps are. I can not remember if I have ever heard before myself. Take care, john h ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:21 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Transparent Fuel Tubing --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" There is something about the gas and oil combination > that can do some thing to some of auto fuel lines. They use something more > oil resistant on two stroke boat motors. When Pennzoil presented at a > local area UL safety seminar, they commented on this and brought attention > to this fact. > jerb Wow, I have to look into this deal as when I put together my fuel system I used automotive black line to get away from the annual fuel line replacements I have to do on my Loehle with the urethane fuel line. Now I find out that my Pennzoil may be breaking down my lines? Ouch. I'll have to see about getting the type of line that comes on motocross bikes, it is thinner walled black rubber and definitly holds up to premix for years. Denny Rowe Mk-3, 2SI 690L, PA ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:29 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Please Support Your Email Lists... --> Kolb-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, There's only about a day and a half left until the official end of the Email List Fund Raiser! You can still get your name on the List of Contributors by making your Contribution today or tomorrow. I will be posting the official List of Contributors on Tuesday or Wednesday. Its your Contribution that makes these Lists available. Your $20 or $30 pays the bills that keeps the Internet Connection turned on and the servers upgraded to the latest and fastest hardware. Please support your lists by making a quick Contribution today. Using the SSL secure online Contribution form, its fast, easy and safe... http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you to everyone that has already made a Contribution. Be looking for *your* name on the up coming List of Contributors! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Admin Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:54 PM PST US From: "Kirk Smith" Subject: Kolb-List: HKS engine --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirk Smith" After reading over Dennis Sauder's post on the HKS it looks like the engine performs about the same as a 503 rotax DC. He did note that the thrust line was too high on the HKS however. I wonder if correcting that would give much improvement in performance? A bit more top end speed maybe? I spent most of the afternoon surfing for HKS data and just can't find diddly in the way of comparison performances between the HKS and other engines. Even the website of Flightstar doesn't give any figures on the HKS performance on any aircraft . Oh well.......Kirk Do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:41 PM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Transparent Fuel Tubing --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon For anyone that's concerned about the fuel lines breaking down, I would suggest they buy a teflon lined fuel hose. those will last forever, they do take a setting after a while but they will not break down from any fuel/oil. I think Aircraft Spruce has them, if not contact Varga here near Phoenix, I know they have them. I bought some from them for my genav oil lines. http://www.vargaair.com/87.html do not archive ====================================== --- Denny Rowe wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" > > > > There is something about the gas and oil > combination > > that can do some thing to some of auto fuel lines. > They use something > more > > oil resistant on two stroke boat motors. When > Pennzoil presented at a > > local area UL safety seminar, they commented on > this and brought attention > > to this fact. > > jerb > > > Wow, > I have to look into this deal as when I put together > my fuel system I used > automotive black line to get away from the annual > fuel line replacements I > have to do on my Loehle with the urethane fuel line. > Now I find out that my > Pennzoil may be breaking down my lines? Ouch. > I'll have to see about getting the type of line that > comes on motocross > bikes, it is thinner walled black rubber and > definitly holds up to premix > for years. > Denny Rowe > Mk-3, 2SI 690L, PA > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:59 PM PST US From: "CRAIG M NELSON" Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" The leading edge of all the Kolb control surfaces are torque tubes. The ribs are attached to this torque tube and transit control forces primarily thru pushing and pulling. The placement of rib on the side >Hers two bits worth; The torque tube as mentioned by John H has the covering material bonded to it. The covering is acting as tension compression (push pull) on the entire surface. think of the placement of the ribs in relation to how much fabric that is bonded to the tube. torque to the entire length of the control surface is uniformly transmitted to the surface by the fabric not a few ribs. The ribs and the fabric act together transmitting control imputes to the surface. Here in Arizona it is so dry that the main spar in the Citabria Decathlon dries enough to let the nails come out that hold the metal ribs to the main spar. try as you might to put the nails back in, the holes are so loose that they keep coming out. Evan epoxying them back in with big epoxy heads, doing aerobatics the nails come out. Pat the back of the wing on the bottom when the plane is on the ground and you will hear the nails, epoxy and all rattling around inside the wing. what keeps the ribs in place? the fabric!!!! the holmer bumps are there because of ease of manufacturing by us the enthusiast. not every one has equipment or the desire to form ribs. I can tell you this much, a formed rib is lighter and stronger as it captures the torque tube and the trailing edge tube in a cradle of material not a trailing edge held by one rivet and the leading edge torque tube by two rivets. again formed ribs seem to work for Cessna, Piper, Grumman America, Bowing, McDonald Douglass, Sikorsky, Bell, Air Buss, and Lear just to mention a few. what's great about a Kolb is there is so much that you can do to make your plane personal, and innovative to you, it lets a little of yourself be in your project. I can tell you this, it is easer to cover, and to make straight tapes. I like the clean look, others might like the holmer bumps, that's cool too. Who knows Holmer bumps may be the only thing holding a kolb in the air. Just have fun with your project. Uncle Craig MKIIIex912uls Arizona ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:03 PM PST US From: "Mark German" Subject: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mark German" Kolbers: I am happy to announce I received my Airworthiness Certificate today at 1:30pm. My Kolbra is now a legal aircraft. Thanks to John W. for the help on W&B numbers. N20386 will be moving to the airport 25D Forest Lake MN tomorrow Sunday Nov-30th. If the weather corporates may just get some time to taxi test. Looking forward to getting the first flight in and starting Phase-1 flight testing. Mark G. 912 Kolbra. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:08 PM PST US From: John Hauck Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck > N20386 will be moving to the airport 25D > Forest Lake MN tomorrow Sunday Nov-30th. > Mark G. 912 Kolbra. Hi Mark/All: Good on ya. Forest Lake, MN, airport is a beautiful extremely old grass strip. I spent my last night out of Oshkosh on the way home from Barrow, Alaska, there in 2001. john h DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:49 PM PST US From: CaptainRon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: CaptainRon Very cool. Have fun, I sure would like to be making such an announcement. about the M3x. :-) do not archive ========================== --- Mark German wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mark German" > > > Kolbers: > I am happy to announce I received my Airworthiness > Certificate today at > 1:30pm. My Kolbra is now a legal aircraft. > Thanks to John W. for the help on W&B numbers. > N20386 will be moving to the > airport 25D Forest Lake MN tomorrow Sunday Nov-30th. > If the weather > corporates may just get some time to taxi test. > Looking forward to getting > the first flight in and starting Phase-1 flight > testing. > > Mark G. > 912 Kolbra. > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== Ron Building M3X Southern Arizona __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:58 PM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" you go cuz............ will wait to how she performs do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark German" Subject: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mark German" > > Kolbers: > I am happy to announce I received my Airworthiness Certificate today at > 1:30pm. My Kolbra is now a legal aircraft. > Thanks to John W. for the help on W&B numbers. N20386 will be moving to the > airport 25D Forest Lake MN tomorrow Sunday Nov-30th. If the weather > corporates may just get some time to taxi test. Looking forward to getting > the first flight in and starting Phase-1 flight testing. > > Mark G. > 912 Kolbra. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:29 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Craig/all I'm sure the fabric contributes to the strength but its not all of it. Also there is a world of difference between a formed rib like you put on your plane and the gussets we were talking about. I'm sure you tested you ribs for strength and I think the gusset should be tested also. Yes have fun with your project but be very careful when you change a structural component on an airplane. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "CRAIG M NELSON" Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "CRAIG M NELSON" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard & Martha Neilsen > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: Homers Bumps > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > The leading edge of all the Kolb control surfaces are torque tubes. The ribs > are attached to this torque tube and transit control forces primarily thru > pushing and pulling. The placement of rib on the side > > >Hers two bits worth; > The torque tube as mentioned by John H has the covering material bonded to it. The covering is acting as tension compression (push pull) on the entire surface. think of the placement of the ribs in relation to how much fabric that is bonded to the tube. torque to the entire length of the control surface is uniformly transmitted to the surface by the fabric not a few ribs. The ribs and the fabric act together transmitting control imputes to the surface. Here in Arizona it is so dry that the main spar in the Citabria Decathlon dries enough to let the nails come out that hold the metal ribs to the main spar. try as you might to put the nails back in, the holes are so loose that they keep coming out. Evan epoxying them back in with big epoxy heads, doing aerobatics the nails come out. Pat the back of the wing on the bottom when the plane is on the ground and you will hear the nails, epoxy and all rattling around inside the wing. what keeps the ribs in place? the fabric!!! > !! the holmer bumps are there because of ease of manufacturing by us the enthusiast. not every one has equipment or the desire to form ribs. I can tell you this much, a formed rib is lighter and stronger as it captures the torque tube and the trailing edge tube in a cradle of material not a trailing edge held by one rivet and the leading edge torque tube by two rivets. again formed ribs seem to work for Cessna, Piper, Grumman America, Bowing, McDonald Douglass, Sikorsky, Bell, Air Buss, and Lear just to mention a few. what's great about a Kolb is there is so much that you can do to make your plane personal, and innovative to you, it lets a little of yourself be in your project. I can tell you this, it is easer to cover, and to make straight tapes. I like the clean look, others might like the holmer bumps, that's cool too. > Who knows Holmer bumps may be the only thing holding a kolb in the air. > Just have fun with your project. > > Uncle Craig > MKIIIex912uls > Arizona > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:55 PM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" Mark, Thanks for the heads-up on putting your Kolbra in the air. There are several of us that are waiting for the performance numbers from that 912. Real nice job. John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra: Jabiru 2200, 503 hours http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:04 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spring Steel Gear Legs --> Kolb-List message posted by: Eugene Zimmerman Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: > > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > > I just got my new spring steel gear legs installed in my VW powered MKIII. These are the optional gear legs that the New Kolb sells now for $400+. Thanks to Bill George who sold them to me slightly used at a bargain price. My plane sits approximately an inch higher and has a 4 inch wider track. I only have one flight under my belt with the new gear but they give me a much smoother ride on my sod strip with little of the cable slap that I normally hear and the landing is much more cushioned. Bill seemed to think they were too springy but they are like the gear that were on the Kolb demonstrator (Fat Albert) and they were just right. > > The gear are 2.5 inches longer outside the cage sockets than the aluminum legs but 6 inches shorter inside the socket. The Old Kolb made the gear legs just like these but then welded a 6 inch 4130 tube to the socket end to better spread the landing loads. > I'm concerned that the landing loads are concentrated so much closer to the end of the landing gear sockets. Yet it would take a really bad landing to transmit as much stress on the gear sockets as the aluminum gear legs because the steel gear are so springy. I wonder if it would be possible to weld a pipe on the socket end like the Old Kolb did without effecting the spring in the steel. I suppose I could put a sleeve inside the gear sockets and grind the knob on the socket end so that it fits into the sleeve. > > For now I'm happy with the gear but wouldn't recommend the gear at their full price. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > Rick, you will definitely not be a happy camper if you mess up your landing gear sockets. I believe it is very likely with your present configuration. I would recommend longer legs that extent as far up into the top of the socket as possible. Gene ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:44 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Bourne" Good for you, Mark. You're an inspiration. Let us know how that 1st flight goes. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark German" Subject: Kolb-List: Airworthiness Certificate!! > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Mark German" > > Kolbers: > I am happy to announce I received my Airworthiness Certificate today at > 1:30pm. My Kolbra is now a legal aircraft. > Thanks to John W. for the help on W&B numbers. N20386 will be moving to the > airport 25D Forest Lake MN tomorrow Sunday Nov-30th. If the weather > corporates may just get some time to taxi test. Looking forward to getting > the first flight in and starting Phase-1 flight testing. > > Mark G. > 912 Kolbra. > >